So then the iPhone should offer every plugin to be considered full? How about IE on the iPhone since most pages are still designed to render them. Oh, and lets not forget adding ActiveX to that list of needs to make MobileSafari a "full internet" browser.
It's semantics. If the word used by Apple is "full", then it's simple, every plug-in must be supported.
If the contention by Apple is that Safari offers an excellent web experience, then that's more amorphous, and could exclude things.
Here's the thing, Flash doesn't provide any crucial benefit that one really needs on the go (otherwise they'd have a laptop). Flash is used on the web for 2 things: games and ads. We don't like ads and games would better handled by the iPhone SDK. I can see why people are whining, but Flash serves little purpose on the iPhone besides sucking up battery life.
There are tons of existing flash games, not to mention all the animations that use it. It's unrealistic to expect them to get ported for iPhone.
While there may be battery issues, wouldn't it make sense for apple to make flash an option for the people who want or need to access sites that use it?
There are tons of existing flash games, not to mention all the animations that use it. It's unrealistic to expect them to get ported for iPhone.
While there may be battery issues, wouldn't it make sense for apple to make flash an option for the people who want or need to access sites that use it?
My wife plays these flash games all the time. If they were able to be played on the iPhone as well, she would be delighted. I don't know how the lower resolution would work though.
Flash isn't going away, and it's not just about animations, ads, and annoying web sites intros. These days its about applications. Have you seen Buzzword? That's the future of Flash, i.e. Flex and Air. Get used to it.
I can only believe Jobs statements are more about competitive advantage then technical limitations. Apple and Adobe have had a strained relationship for a very long time.
Although Flash ads are probably the most common flash I see on a daily basis, the only ones I ever interact with are the games on Facebook. I always have a few Scrabulous games going, and not being able to play on my iPod Touch is annoying. I understand there's a more official Scrabble game coming out for the iPhone/Touch, but if it doesn't play against Scrabulous users it's close to useless for me.
Close iPhone development folks!! This guy needs to play scrabble on it for the iPhone to be a viable product.
*sheesh* Get out of your parent's basement from time-to-time.
Close iPhone development folks!! This guy needs to play scrabble on it for the iPhone to be a viable product.
*sheesh* Get out of your parent's basement from time-to-time.
That is an inflammatory replay to a remark that didn't mention the iPhone SDK and clearly stated that Scrabulous is the ONLY use for Flash that Booga would want.
Let's see. This article written by Prince McLean, aka Daniel Eran Dilger, or your flash in the pan counter? Until you credential yourself and/or backup your contentions, my leaning is towards the former.
Sorry, but I also take exception to an unsupported claim of "lying."
Lying is a bit harsh but I wouldn't put it past Steve to come up with a tangible, technical excuse to invoke a strategy to weaken a product which could put a stranglehold in internet media delivery, especially an Adobe product.
Personally the disadvantages of ads bloating my web browser outweight any benefits of flash-enabled sites. Also site creators should let us decide what media handler we want to view our H.264 video with, not just slap in flash.
Some people really need to understand that there are things outside their own experience of the web.
Anyone who thinks that Flash is just about annoying ads and 'skip' intros these days needs to understand that the web is a big place and you have not seen anywhere near all of it.
Some of the web's biggest sites are ENTIRELY flash based. Just off the top of my head:
webkinz.com - 200th most popular site on the internet, 5 million people use it a month
clubpenguin.com - 600th most popular site on the internet, 2.5 million people use it a month.
And there are many interesting applications pointing the way of future Flash development - recent discoveries :
This is only going to increase as Adobe continues to push it's massive lead in the rich media applications market.
Belittling Flash as just another plug in is pure nonsense. It makes up a significant portion of the web and is not going away soon.
Some things Steve J gets right. Some things he introduces a while after getting it wrong. If the iPhone/Touch is really going be the true internet and if it is going to compete with devices that will give a full, rich media internet experience, Flash had better be in the latter camp.
Some things Steve J gets right. Some things he introduces a while after getting it wrong. If the iPhone/Touch is really going be the true internet and if it is going to compete with devices that will give a full, rich media internet experience, Flash had better be in the latter camp.
Some here keep mentioning other portable devices that play flash content and ask if they can do it why can't the iPhone. The iPhone can run flash. Jobs has said flash is too slow on the iPhone because it was not designed to run on devices that have strict hardware and energy limitations.
Quote:
The REAL reason that Flash isn't on iPhone is because Apple wants to control the application stack on the iPhone....it has nothing to do with the bullcrap reasons that Steve Jobs or the author give.
Apple is pushing for the use of webkit, HTML, CSS, JavaScript and H.264. These are all web design elements that are free to everyone and Apple does not directly control.
Quote:
There are tons of existing flash games, not to mention all the animations that use it. It's unrealistic to expect them to get ported for iPhone.
There is no reason they can not be rebuilt using standard web languages. In the long run this would benefit all mobile devices as they would use less system resources and less energy than flash games.
Quote:
Flash isn't going away, and it's not just about animations, ads, and annoying web sites intros. These days its about applications. Have you seen Buzzword? That's the future of Flash, i.e. Flex and Air. Get used to it.
I don't believe Flex and Air will necessarily get an easy path to ubiquity. Adobe will have to sell the technology community on their usefulness. Especially in light of competing technology.
Quote:
Some of the web's biggest sites are ENTIRELY flash based. Just off the top of my head:
These sites should be discouraged from only offering flash. They should also offer HTML.
Quote:
This is only going to increase as Adobe continues to push it's massive lead in the rich media applications market.
Not if someone else comes up with something that is easier and works better.
Some here keep mentioning other portable devices that play flash content and ask if they can do it why can't the iPhone. The iPhone can run flash. Jobs has said flash is too slow on the iPhone because it was not designed to run on devices that have strict hardware and energy limitations.
Apple is pushing for the use of webkit, HTML, CSS, JavaScript and H.264. These are all web design elements that are free to everyone and Apple does not directly control.
There is no reason they can not be rebuilt using standard web languages. In the long run this would benefit all mobile devices as they would use less system resources and less energy than flash games.
I don't believe Flex and Air will necessarily get an easy path to ubiquity. Adobe will have to sell the technology community on their usefulness. Especially in light of competing technology.
These sites should be discouraged from only offering flash. They should also offer HTML.
Not if someone else comes up with something that is easier and works better.
I don't know. Flash is pretty ubiquitous already.
I'm pretty much convinced that Adobe bought Macromedia primarily FOR Flash.
If it weren't so important to the web, MS wouldn't have been concerned enough to have come out with their own.
Comments
So then the iPhone should offer every plugin to be considered full? How about IE on the iPhone since most pages are still designed to render them. Oh, and lets not forget adding ActiveX to that list of needs to make MobileSafari a "full internet" browser.
It's semantics. If the word used by Apple is "full", then it's simple, every plug-in must be supported.
If the contention by Apple is that Safari offers an excellent web experience, then that's more amorphous, and could exclude things.
games would better handled by the iPhone SDK
There are tons of existing flash games, not to mention all the animations that use it. It's unrealistic to expect them to get ported for iPhone.
While there may be battery issues, wouldn't it make sense for apple to make flash an option for the people who want or need to access sites that use it?
There are tons of existing flash games, not to mention all the animations that use it. It's unrealistic to expect them to get ported for iPhone.
While there may be battery issues, wouldn't it make sense for apple to make flash an option for the people who want or need to access sites that use it?
My wife plays these flash games all the time. If they were able to be played on the iPhone as well, she would be delighted. I don't know how the lower resolution would work though.
I can only believe Jobs statements are more about competitive advantage then technical limitations. Apple and Adobe have had a strained relationship for a very long time.
Although Flash ads are probably the most common flash I see on a daily basis, the only ones I ever interact with are the games on Facebook. I always have a few Scrabulous games going, and not being able to play on my iPod Touch is annoying. I understand there's a more official Scrabble game coming out for the iPhone/Touch, but if it doesn't play against Scrabulous users it's close to useless for me.
Close iPhone development folks!! This guy needs to play scrabble on it for the iPhone to be a viable product.
*sheesh* Get out of your parent's basement from time-to-time.
Close iPhone development folks!! This guy needs to play scrabble on it for the iPhone to be a viable product.
*sheesh* Get out of your parent's basement from time-to-time.
That is an inflammatory replay to a remark that didn't mention the iPhone SDK and clearly stated that Scrabulous is the ONLY use for Flash that Booga would want.
Flash works on the Chumby with a touchscreen.
Chumby specs....
3.5" LCD color touchscreen
350 MHz ARM processor
64 MB SDRAM
64 MB NAND flash ROM
I would think the iPhone should be able to do it.
But this doesn't handle 'the full internet' it seems to be widgets/webclips only. Hardly the same prospect as loading a web pages full of flash-ads.
McD
Let's see. This article written by Prince McLean, aka Daniel Eran Dilger, or your flash in the pan counter? Until you credential yourself and/or backup your contentions, my leaning is towards the former.
Sorry, but I also take exception to an unsupported claim of "lying."
Lying is a bit harsh but I wouldn't put it past Steve to come up with a tangible, technical excuse to invoke a strategy to weaken a product which could put a stranglehold in internet media delivery, especially an Adobe product.
Personally the disadvantages of ads bloating my web browser outweight any benefits of flash-enabled sites. Also site creators should let us decide what media handler we want to view our H.264 video with, not just slap in flash.
McD
....If the word used by Apple is "full", then it's simple, every plug-in must be supported.
You mean my DjVu Browser Plugin won't work? I'm gonna sue!
Also site creators should let us decide what media handler we want to view our H.264 video with, not just slap in flash.
McD
It is somewhat interesting that YouTube videos play as flv on your computer and as better quality mp4 H.264 on the iPhone...
Anyone who thinks that Flash is just about annoying ads and 'skip' intros these days needs to understand that the web is a big place and you have not seen anywhere near all of it.
Some of the web's biggest sites are ENTIRELY flash based. Just off the top of my head:
webkinz.com - 200th most popular site on the internet, 5 million people use it a month
clubpenguin.com - 600th most popular site on the internet, 2.5 million people use it a month.
And there are many interesting applications pointing the way of future Flash development - recent discoveries :
Live earth:
http://dsc.discovery.com/guides/disc...99-502-ah-1051
Already mentioned buzzword.com
This is only going to increase as Adobe continues to push it's massive lead in the rich media applications market.
Belittling Flash as just another plug in is pure nonsense. It makes up a significant portion of the web and is not going away soon.
Some things Steve J gets right. Some things he introduces a while after getting it wrong. If the iPhone/Touch is really going be the true internet and if it is going to compete with devices that will give a full, rich media internet experience, Flash had better be in the latter camp.
Some things Steve J gets right. Some things he introduces a while after getting it wrong. If the iPhone/Touch is really going be the true internet and if it is going to compete with devices that will give a full, rich media internet experience, Flash had better be in the latter camp.
Flash is not the Internet!
The REAL reason that Flash isn't on iPhone is because Apple wants to control the application stack on the iPhone....it has nothing to do with the bullcrap reasons that Steve Jobs or the author give.
Apple is pushing for the use of webkit, HTML, CSS, JavaScript and H.264. These are all web design elements that are free to everyone and Apple does not directly control.
There are tons of existing flash games, not to mention all the animations that use it. It's unrealistic to expect them to get ported for iPhone.
There is no reason they can not be rebuilt using standard web languages. In the long run this would benefit all mobile devices as they would use less system resources and less energy than flash games.
Flash isn't going away, and it's not just about animations, ads, and annoying web sites intros. These days its about applications. Have you seen Buzzword? That's the future of Flash, i.e. Flex and Air. Get used to it.
I don't believe Flex and Air will necessarily get an easy path to ubiquity. Adobe will have to sell the technology community on their usefulness. Especially in light of competing technology.
Some of the web's biggest sites are ENTIRELY flash based. Just off the top of my head:
These sites should be discouraged from only offering flash. They should also offer HTML.
This is only going to increase as Adobe continues to push it's massive lead in the rich media applications market.
Not if someone else comes up with something that is easier and works better.
You mean my DjVu Browser Plugin won't work? I'm gonna sue!
You should.
Actually, I understand why they say things like that, but it can give people the wrong impression, which is why I wrote that.
I know how he said it would slow down the iPhone. But at least give us the option of having it, if we don't like we can take it off
I would like to have it, with the choice to turn the plug-in off, perhaps with a button on the Safari menu bar.
Some here keep mentioning other portable devices that play flash content and ask if they can do it why can't the iPhone. The iPhone can run flash. Jobs has said flash is too slow on the iPhone because it was not designed to run on devices that have strict hardware and energy limitations.
Apple is pushing for the use of webkit, HTML, CSS, JavaScript and H.264. These are all web design elements that are free to everyone and Apple does not directly control.
There is no reason they can not be rebuilt using standard web languages. In the long run this would benefit all mobile devices as they would use less system resources and less energy than flash games.
I don't believe Flex and Air will necessarily get an easy path to ubiquity. Adobe will have to sell the technology community on their usefulness. Especially in light of competing technology.
These sites should be discouraged from only offering flash. They should also offer HTML.
Not if someone else comes up with something that is easier and works better.
I don't know. Flash is pretty ubiquitous already.
I'm pretty much convinced that Adobe bought Macromedia primarily FOR Flash.
If it weren't so important to the web, MS wouldn't have been concerned enough to have come out with their own.