Apple's chance at the perfect device

2

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  • Reply 21 of 44
    hobbithobbit Posts: 532member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    That is why I suspect they are going to make a larger web tablet/iphone thingy with the ability to have a larger screen and ALSO be pocketable.



    How about a device the size of an iPod touch but in a clamshell design, opening up with 2 screens flush next to each other?



    LG managed to develop a display with a 1mm bezel left and right. With a little bit of extra metal shielding two such screens next to each other would have a 2.5 - 3mm bridge in the middle.



    Would that be acceptable? Or would it just be annoying to have such a vertical gap let's say in the middle of a web page?

    0.5 - 1mm would probably be acceptable. Not sure about 3mm.

    Yet this might work if the gap is horizontal rather than vertical.

    Either way that's as far as technology currently goes.



    Even with flexible OLEDs you can't fold them totally flat, there still needs to be some curvature radius - which will make the folded device thicker. Not an ideal solution either.
  • Reply 22 of 44
    thttht Posts: 3,241member
    I'm in large agreement with hobBIT here. Anything between smartphone/PDA size and an ultra-portable laptop has not been very successful. There have been many many attempts at a tweener device in every form factor (pen input, clamshell, slider, candybar). Many of them exist today, but none of them are lighting the world on fire, with the possible exception of the Kindle.



    I think the maximum size is on the order of 3 x 5 inches or 2.5 by 5.5 inches. You can fit a 5.5" screen into a device that size, and it'll barely fit into your trouser pocket. Just barely. On the iPod touch or iPhone, if you reduce bezels to an absolute minimum everywhere (~0.2") on the 4.4 x 2.4 inch planform, a 4.5 inch 2:1 aspect ratio screen could be placed onto there. At current pixel density, that's 640 x 320 resolution. 1024 x 512 would make small text more legible though. And of course, 0.5" thick is about the thickest it can get. Hmm... wonder where they would put the handset speaker for calls.
  • Reply 23 of 44
    dylanwdylanw Posts: 9member
    Good points there Hobbit. I definitely see how it would be an issue for a lot of people. Personally My pockets can fit a dvd sized case, and I also have cargo pants or a bag i could use, so the size works for me. But people with smaller pants, and thusly smaller pockets this could be an issue.



    I would argue though, if the device offered a really nice user experience, great ease of use and supported a wide media range, then it would gain more traction. Yes the Newton is cool, but it has a green screen, with old software, and isn't nearly as full featured as the iPhone some would argue, and a bit clunky.



    One thing to think about is whether or not what it can do for you would make people change their habits slightly to be able to use it. I know many people who think that the PSP is way to big and clunky to bother carrying around, but I know several more who go out of their way to keep it on hand for what it can do.
  • Reply 24 of 44
    dylanwdylanw Posts: 9member
    http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/28/a...to-the-iphone/



    What do you guys think? Does this lend itself to tablet speculation? :P
  • Reply 25 of 44
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    This thread excites me, really does. Great, great article. The device you are hinting at here is the Mac touch. I have been banking on Apple making it for over year now. Expect it in 2009. I have only read half the first comment in this thread so far, will read the rest now, but I agree that the screen won't be 9", it will be 10" or 11", persoannly I'm hoping it's 11". 17", 15", 13", 11", and around 14mm thick +/- 1 or 2mm. I also think this device needs some sort of flip-out rest on the back in order to succeed as a real-world product. Pop out the rest and rest the device [by itself] on a school desk, an aeroplane table or train table at 15-17º, pretty much perfect for some more fast typing or writing on the touch screen. I also think you may have hit the nail on the head with regards to using a pen with this device, although most won't need it, I think Apple "should" sell a pen separately that works with this device. For those that do need it, 20%, it would be the difference between buying and not buying it.



    Let's take a look at the desktop of this device. The way I see it the icons on this platform will be totally iPhone-like, but it won't have the same type of home screen. It will likely have a dock that looks like both the iPhone dock and OS X dock rolled into one. A row of icons across the whole bottom of the screen, with up to about 5 or more rows, swipe the dock left or right to view the next row. Think the dock in Dashboard, it would be a whole lot like that. With a desktop image covering the screen. Up top it will likely have a menubar of sorts, but the menubar would be thicker than the OS X menubar, and more akin to something finger-sized like you see at times on the iPhone. So yes, this product would in a way be an iPhone and a Mac rolled into one. The device is not a work horse though, it's for getting light work done on the move in a device this is truly ultra-portable, with a genuinely revolutionary user-interface. And as I said before, the way I see this device, it's tag-line could easily be "take some work with you".



    It's not a phone, so one could easily own both an iPhone and a Mac touch at the same time. Both are useful, and are for different purposes - and both would stay in sync in a very convenient manner.



    The way I see the "Mac touch", everyone in the house could have one, with the big screened computer in the "den" that stores "all" the houses data. Dock and sync it - "take some work with you". Most people do all if not most of their work at home or at the office, that is why this product makes so much sense, and as you said, it would be great for entertainment [especially watching a movie] too.



    Mac touch FTW!



    Please note: The laptop, as we know it is dead! It's just a matter of time.



    Seriously though, I'm not joking at all, give it 5 years and the laptop will be a niche market. And give it 10 years, and the laptop will not be present as a product in any big name stores. Touch screen is the future, the sooner people in this forum learn to accept that the better.
  • Reply 26 of 44
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dylanw View Post


    http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/28/a...to-the-iphone/



    What do you guys think? Does this lend itself to tablet speculation? :P



    Yes it does, and if I recall correctly Apple had a similar job offer [no mention of iPhone obviously] over a year ago too.
  • Reply 27 of 44
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bancho View Post


    Thanks for the blogspam.



    It's an interesting article, cut him slack please.
  • Reply 28 of 44
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    Just remember: your perfect device is somebody else's piece of junk.



    No one device is perfect for everyone, but I get his point, and I'd say for 50% of people it could be perfect, which is huge!
  • Reply 29 of 44
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dylanw


    The only reason I posted this here was for discussion purposes and to follow along the lines of an article AInsider wrote regarding a new umpc that may be coming out. Instead of writing a whole 'nother article in the forum I decided to link instead. I wanted to see what the AInsider thought about my views. Sorry if I offended you.



    Don't even pay attention to the nay-sayers, great article!!
  • Reply 30 of 44
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Well then here is a link taking you directly to a concept image of an interesting design for "the perfect device" from Apple.

    Its a very large pic so beware if your not on broadband.



    http://bp2.blogger.com/_bQcv2POSKzM/...ptop1+copy.jpg



    If they could make this design be some how foldable then that would be the ultimate design imo.
  • Reply 31 of 44
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    This thread excites me, really does. Great, great article. The device you are hinting at here is the Mac touch. I have been banking on Apple making it for over year now. Expect it in 2009. I have only read half the first comment in this thread so far, will read the rest now, but I agree that the screen won't be 9", it will be 10" or 11", persoannly I'm hoping it's 11". 17", 15", 13", 11", and around 14mm thick +/- 1 or 2mm. I also think this device needs some sort of flip-out rest on the back in order to succeed as a real-world product. Pop out the rest and rest the device [by itself] on a school desk, an aeroplane table or train table at 15-17º, pretty much perfect for some more fast typing or writing on the touch screen. I also think you may have hit the nail on the head with regards to using a pen with this device, although most won't need it, I think Apple "should" sell a pen separately that works with this device. For those that do need it, 20%, it would be the difference between buying and not buying it.



    {post snipped}



    It's not a phone, so one could easily own both an iPhone and a Mac touch at the same time. Both are useful, and are for different purposes - and both would stay in sync in a very convenient manner.



    {post snipped}



    Please note: The laptop, as we know it is dead! It's just a matter of time.



    Seriously though, I'm not joking at all, give it 5 years and the laptop will be a niche market. And give it 10 years, and the laptop will not be present as a product in any big name stores. Touch screen is the future, the sooner people in this forum learn to accept that the better.



    Ireland - why haven't you yet commented on this design?







    When in slate format, it can easily have all the mixed desktop interface abilities you are talking about.
  • Reply 32 of 44
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appleeinstein View Post


    Ireland - why haven't you yet commented on this design?







    When in slate format, it can easily have all the mixed desktop interface abilities you are talking about.



    What is there to say? I hate it. How many screens does the iPhone have? I want this tablet to have one screen - no exceptions. For typing something long flip out the rest on the rear and put the tablet on a flat desk. With the rest it would be at a quite comfortable 15º. I've been saying it, and I will keep on saying it - if you think this tablet should be a convertible as far as I'm concerned you're simple missing the point of multi-touch at it's core. Call me stubborn, call me arrogant, I don't mind, when this Mac touch is released and it has one screen I'll be right. Besides, one screen saves a lot of battery over two, makes the device more sleek, minimal, more solid, less complex, and far cheaper to design and manufacturer.



    A 14 or 15mm slab, 10 or 11" screen, pop-out rest on rear [for supporting the Mac touch at 15º-17º on a flat surface], iSight inside bezel of glass, multi-touch screen, wrapped in a sleek, silver, aluminum shell. Mac touch FTW dammit!
  • Reply 33 of 44
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    What is there to say? I hate it. How many screens does the iPhone have? I want this tablet to have one screen - no exceptions. For typing something long flip out the rest on the rear and put the tablet on a flat desk. With the rest it would be at a quite comfortable 15º. I've been saying it, and I will keep on saying it - if you think this tablet should be a convertible as far as I'm concerned you're simple missing the point of multi-touch at it's core. Call me stubborn, call me arrogant, I don't mind, when this Mac touch is released and it has one screen I'll be right. Besides, one screen saves a lot of battery over two, makes the device more sleek, minimal, more solid, less complex, and far cheaper to design and manufacturer.



    A 14 or 15mm slab, 10 or 11" screen, pop-out rest on rear [for supporting the Mac touch at 15º-17º on a flat surface], iSight inside bezel of glass, multi-touch screen, wrapped in a sleek, silver, aluminum shell. Mac touch FTW dammit!



    You're hilarious, Ireland.



    I hate the notebook form factor as much as anybody, but it's survived thus far since it's a necessary evil. Quite necessary. Most of the population wants high speed text entry for a mobile device. There is no other way besides a dedicated keyboard.



    If the MacBook Touch "slab" form factor was only 13mm (that's thicker than the MacBook Air's average width), and slightly larger (11.5"-13") than you had expected, with all the specs you mentioned, would you be satisfied?



    You don't have to open it, you know.



    I would rarely open it. But when I wanted to open it, I most certainly would need it. What if you were sitting in an airport waiting on your flight to arrive - would you be able to type a marathon monologue like you did above? I doubt it - not with the "Mac touch FTW dammit" concept.



    Apple is all about ease of use. Travelers want to be able to slide their portable computer out of their luggage and surf the web, but they don't want to have to find a table, set up the stand, and dig out the keyboard to type a quick but not-very-brief response to an email.
  • Reply 34 of 44
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appleeinstein View Post


    You're hilarious, Ireland.



    I hate the notebook form factor as much as anybody, but it's survived thus far since it's a necessary evil. Quite necessary. Most of the population wants high speed text entry for a mobile device. There is no other way besides a dedicated keyboard.



    If the MacBook Touch "slab" form factor was only 13mm (that's thicker than the MacBook Air's average width), and slightly larger (11.5"-13") than you had expected, with all the specs you mentioned, would you be satisfied?



    You don't have to open it, you know.



    I would rarely open it. But when I wanted to open it, I most certainly would need it. What if you were sitting in an airport waiting on your flight to arrive - would you be able to type a marathon monologue like you did above? I doubt it - not with the "Mac touch FTW dammit" concept.



    Apple is all about ease of use. Travelers want to be able to slide their portable computer out of their luggage and surf the web, but they don't want to have to find a table, set up the stand, and dig out the keyboard to type a quick but not-very-brief response to an email.



    You go your way I'll go mine, time will prove one of us right and my bet is Steve would prefer the minimal MT design like I think it will be.



    11.5"-13" with what size bezel?



    With a 3/4" bezel the whole way round, and an 11" [diagonal] screen, that would make the Mac touch roughly 10 2/3" x 7 1/2". And at a 12mm or 13mm thickness - where do I sign?



    I want an 11" screen, but for some reason I see Apple giving the Mac touch a 10" screen. Though 10" would still make a definite purchase for me. Would prefer 11", just to be clear.
  • Reply 35 of 44
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    You go your way I'll go mine, time will prove one of us right and my bet is Steve would prefer the minimal MT design like I think it will be.



    11.5"-13" with what size bezel?



    With a 3/4" bezel the whole way round, and an 11" [diagonal] screen, that would make the Mac touch roughly 10 2/3" x 7 1/2". And at a 12mm or 13mm thickness - where do I sign?



    I want an 11" screen, but for some reason I see Apple giving the Mac touch a 10" screen. Though 10" would still make a definite purchase for me. Would prefer 11", just to be clear.



    You sign here: __________________. For your MacBook Touch (that converts nicely to a fullsize notebook simply by opening the touch).
  • Reply 36 of 44
    irelandireland Posts: 17,649member
    You sign here: Ireland. I love my Mac touch.
  • Reply 37 of 44
    fishyesquefishyesque Posts: 725member
    "We need ice.."



    Darn, I've been away from here for too long! Isn't the feeling of coming into a thread to late frustrating?



    That being said:



    http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/



    Physical feedback? Psshhhhhhhhhh



    I've used that laser keyboard a good amount, and can safely say that for me, I don't need feedback to type.



    *dance*



    See, what we need to develop is a device that can expand. A small switch on the side perhaps? The lowest setting, the size of an ipod touch. Switch it up once, you've got 10". Again, you've got 13".



    Boom, portability problem solved.
  • Reply 38 of 44
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post


    "We need ice.."



    Darn, I've been away from here for too long! Isn't the feeling of coming into a thread to late frustrating?



    That being said:



    http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/



    Physical feedback? Psshhhhhhhhhh



    I've used that laser keyboard a good amount, and can safely say that for me, I don't need feedback to type.



    *dance*



    See, what we need to develop is a device that can expand. A small switch on the side perhaps? The lowest setting, the size of an ipod touch. Switch it up once, you've got 10". Again, you've got 13".



    Boom, portability problem solved.



    I've already dreamt of an expanding display screen for quite a while now. Yes, that would solve a lot of problems. So I've been researching any news on foldable OLED display components but I haven't found anything yet that might indicate a clue.

    So I think for the meantime that Apple will have to use regular lcd or oled displays for their products.

    so if anything he might do a device with multiple screens and incorporate some sort of clamshell and/or sliding case design.
  • Reply 39 of 44
    Yeah, folding would be nice, but it looks like that's a ways away.
  • Reply 40 of 44
    dylanwdylanw Posts: 9member
    I seriosly think we will see Apple shy away from folding/hinging anything, due to several factors. It ads yet another piece to break. Another problem is that there will have to be some sort of racheting mechanism, look at laptops, the angle of their screen is not always opened to the same angle and for good reason, sometimes light needs to be deflected (glare), sometimes you have to sit with it far away/or closer (table no/no table), and the lid isnt load bearing on these laptops, where some of these flip designs it would have to be. I think that if Apple makes anything, they would run on the side revolution as opposed to renovation just because of what people are used to. I think we will see a proper tablet, not a half way mutant.



    Just my thoughts on the whole laptop/tablet battle here...
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