While, I'd happily pay a modest premium for OS X (and iTunes), 16% of a $1500 computer is a significant amount of money... $240 to be exact. Couple that with the fact that the comparison unit also has 3 times the RAM, a 40% larger HDD and a much better graphics card... I think the iMac in question could stand to be a bit cheaper, honestly (especially considering the iMac's RAM and HDD are likely the exact same as those being used in competing units). With the 2GB RAM and 500GB HDD options, the iMac is $1699, representing a 26% premium, or $440. That's a little pricey.
While, I'd happily pay a modest premium for OS X (and iLife), 16% of a $1500 computer is a significant amount of money... $240 to be exact. Couple that with the fact that the comparison unit also has 3 times the RAM, a 40% larger HDD and a much better graphics card... I think the iMac in question could stand to be a bit cheaper, honestly (especially considering the iMac's RAM and HDD are likely the exact same as those being used in competing units). With the 2GB RAM and 500GB HDD options, the iMac is $1699, representing a 26% premium, or $440. That's a little pricey.
Granted, the HP d4999t isn't an AIO, but still... $440 difference for OS X and 2 fewer cables? For potential switchers who are price-comparing but don't know the difference OS X might make, that extra $440 is going to be a tough sell. Even for me, a devoted Mac-user, that $440 is a little difficult to justify.
-Clive
When I spec the HP d4999t on HP's site with a monitor it ends up at $1,599. Of course, it IS a nicer machine:
2.4Ghz Quad, 3GB RAM, 512MB 8800GT, 750GB HDD, 820.11n. But no, it's not an AIO and that's a key difference.
Also the 2.4Ghz 20" iMac is likely the worst value in iMac line. Move the HP to a 24" monitor and it's $1839 vs $1799 for the 2.4Ghz 24" iMac with a TN panel instead of a S-IPS panel.
Eh. You really can't compare AIOs or SFF computers to their tower bretheren either on performance or price any more than you can laptop to tower. There is a cost for size.
You've never used fingerworks products have you. The GUI doesn't need to change whatsoever.
Mmm...the touchstream wasn't the world's greatest keyboard. Error rates from not having tactile feedback is higher and/or you gotta look at the keyboard as the registration bumps for the home key row is about all there is to help.
On a gesture screen you wont even have those bumps as a guide.
The GUI may not technically need to change but overall usability will drop because of an inferior keyboard.
Who says a minitower wouldn't be priced in the same range as the iMac? AIO architecture is definitely a selling point for users who want simplicity, as is customizeability for users who want that. I see no reason why the two products couldn't coexist at roughly the same price points.
.............
-Clive
If you read my post you'd realize it was me that said it. I didn't say it was anything other than my opinion.
Nope and unfortunately it looks like I won't get the chance too, but what I'm referring to is multi-touch on the screen in addition to the keyboard and trackpad without the sacrifice of tactile feedback. A convertible notebook is one that can transform into a tablet by flipping the screen around, and keeping a cursor driven GUI there would degrade the ability of the multi-touch screen to do anything useful and that's where the GUI would need to change.
Sebastian
yah, pull downs suck, everything needs to be finger sized, you need to assume that interactive objects are largely obscured during interaction, etc
That said, the iPhone does rather well...but I wouldn't want to try to write a long memo or build a Keynote presentation in it.
yah, pull downs suck, everything needs to be finger sized, you need to assume that interactive objects are largely obscured during interaction, etc
And sliders.....I've had my iPhone since day one and I still have a hard time adjusting the volume or skipping ahead with something using the sliders. And I don't have big fingers at all.
I never used an iPod or iPod Touch so I can't say that a virtual keyboard isn't any good. I grew up using typewriters (IBM Selectrics) and then graduated to computer keyboards. I was able to type at close to 100 WPM in my prime. I am comfortable with using a real keyboard. I like key travel and resistance feedback.
I'm not to sure I want to give up a real keyboard for a virtual one. Perhaps if Apple starts to use voice input or something that is very accurate, I might concede, but I don't think this is likely. As long as I'm given the option to use a real keyboard, then I won't complain. A few sentences shouldn't be a problem, but typing reports and books on a screen keyboard really doesn't seem that good a substitute for a real full-size keyboard.
Maybe I'm just out of touch. The computing world is changing, so maybe I should just try to adjust to whatever the future has waiting for me. \
Out of touch? Not at all. Tactile feedback that you refer to is very important and is possibly the main thing that has held back development of these devices.
Touch screen keyboards exist in a prototype stage, check out:
And now Nokia claims to have perfected a simulated "keypress response". Whether or not this is just for a mobile phone or can be scaled I'm not sure of, but many design studios are working flat out to marry these two. In this next couple of years you should see some viable products starting to hit the market.
Out of touch? Not at all. Tactile feedback that you refer to is very important and is possibly the main thing that has held back development of these devices.
Touch screen keyboards exist in a prototype stage, check out:
And now Nokia claims to have perfected a simulated "keypress response". Whether or not this is just for a mobile phone or can be scaled I'm not sure of, but many design studios are working flat out to marry these two. In this next couple of years you should see some viable products starting to hit the market.
Damn that art lebedev an his cool designs! I see apple doing this for realz! Of course, you know Art will charge 10 grand for it and be at least 4 years late to get it into the marketplace.
But omg I'm sooooo diggin the concept and design.
note: lol "sooooo diggin" I must be in a whitey sorta mood today.
Those keyboards have been around this forum for about 4 years. They have been discussed to death too. I think we could see something similar, but it will be different. I'd go for the Apple redesigned fingerworks gesture-pad alone, but I to think Apple has seen other designs, and have some ideas of their own. Nevertheless I think it's probably going to be about 300 dollars or more for such an item from Apple.
Those keyboards have been around this forum for about 4 years. They have been discussed to death too. I think we could see something similar, but it will be different. I'd go for the Apple redesigned fingerworks gesture-pad alone, but I to think Apple has seen other designs, and have some ideas of their own. Nevertheless I think it's probably going to be about 300 dollars or more for such an item from Apple.
Now we have one difference - Touchscreen keyboard with Tactile Feedback. This has long been thought of as a key component that no one could figure out quite how to do. Lebedev's optimus maximus has been around for years too and now its selling finally. I think we will probably see the tactus do the same thing.
Yes you could add gestures as well, the whole design is perfect for that sort of thing. Something like Sensiva could be very easily integrated into it.
And for the price I think you would have to double your price and then add some - have you seen how much the maximus goes for?
Comments
Could you spec a PC that meets the requirement?
Originally Posted by Clive At Five
While, I'd happily pay a modest premium for OS X (and iTunes), 16% of a $1500 computer is a significant amount of money... $240 to be exact. Couple that with the fact that the comparison unit also has 3 times the RAM, a 40% larger HDD and a much better graphics card... I think the iMac in question could stand to be a bit cheaper, honestly (especially considering the iMac's RAM and HDD are likely the exact same as those being used in competing units). With the 2GB RAM and 500GB HDD options, the iMac is $1699, representing a 26% premium, or $440. That's a little pricey.
While, I'd happily pay a modest premium for OS X (and iLife), 16% of a $1500 computer is a significant amount of money... $240 to be exact. Couple that with the fact that the comparison unit also has 3 times the RAM, a 40% larger HDD and a much better graphics card... I think the iMac in question could stand to be a bit cheaper, honestly (especially considering the iMac's RAM and HDD are likely the exact same as those being used in competing units). With the 2GB RAM and 500GB HDD options, the iMac is $1699, representing a 26% premium, or $440. That's a little pricey.
Granted, the HP d4999t isn't an AIO, but still... $440 difference for OS X and 2 fewer cables? For potential switchers who are price-comparing but don't know the difference OS X might make, that extra $440 is going to be a tough sell. Even for me, a devoted Mac-user, that $440 is a little difficult to justify.
-Clive
When I spec the HP d4999t on HP's site with a monitor it ends up at $1,599. Of course, it IS a nicer machine:
2.4Ghz Quad, 3GB RAM, 512MB 8800GT, 750GB HDD, 820.11n. But no, it's not an AIO and that's a key difference.
Also the 2.4Ghz 20" iMac is likely the worst value in iMac line. Move the HP to a 24" monitor and it's $1839 vs $1799 for the 2.4Ghz 24" iMac with a TN panel instead of a S-IPS panel.
Eh. You really can't compare AIOs or SFF computers to their tower bretheren either on performance or price any more than you can laptop to tower. There is a cost for size.
You've never used fingerworks products have you. The GUI doesn't need to change whatsoever.
Mmm...the touchstream wasn't the world's greatest keyboard. Error rates from not having tactile feedback is higher and/or you gotta look at the keyboard as the registration bumps for the home key row is about all there is to help.
On a gesture screen you wont even have those bumps as a guide.
The GUI may not technically need to change but overall usability will drop because of an inferior keyboard.
Who says a minitower wouldn't be priced in the same range as the iMac? AIO architecture is definitely a selling point for users who want simplicity, as is customizeability for users who want that. I see no reason why the two products couldn't coexist at roughly the same price points.
.............
-Clive
If you read my post you'd realize it was me that said it. I didn't say it was anything other than my opinion.
Nope and unfortunately it looks like I won't get the chance too, but what I'm referring to is multi-touch on the screen in addition to the keyboard and trackpad without the sacrifice of tactile feedback. A convertible notebook is one that can transform into a tablet by flipping the screen around, and keeping a cursor driven GUI there would degrade the ability of the multi-touch screen to do anything useful and that's where the GUI would need to change.
Sebastian
yah, pull downs suck, everything needs to be finger sized, you need to assume that interactive objects are largely obscured during interaction, etc
That said, the iPhone does rather well...but I wouldn't want to try to write a long memo or build a Keynote presentation in it.
yah, pull downs suck, everything needs to be finger sized, you need to assume that interactive objects are largely obscured during interaction, etc
And sliders.....I've had my iPhone since day one and I still have a hard time adjusting the volume or skipping ahead with something using the sliders. And I don't have big fingers at all.
I will pay the shipping and handling for the burrito if you'll send it to me.
Throw in a quart of guacamole and you have a deal.
On a more interesting note, did anybody see this, "Michael Dell shuts down company, gives the money back to shareholders
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/16844/
Oh, those MacDailyNews cut-ups!
I never used an iPod or iPod Touch so I can't say that a virtual keyboard isn't any good. I grew up using typewriters (IBM Selectrics) and then graduated to computer keyboards. I was able to type at close to 100 WPM in my prime. I am comfortable with using a real keyboard. I like key travel and resistance feedback.
I'm not to sure I want to give up a real keyboard for a virtual one. Perhaps if Apple starts to use voice input or something that is very accurate, I might concede, but I don't think this is likely. As long as I'm given the option to use a real keyboard, then I won't complain. A few sentences shouldn't be a problem, but typing reports and books on a screen keyboard really doesn't seem that good a substitute for a real full-size keyboard.
Maybe I'm just out of touch. The computing world is changing, so maybe I should just try to adjust to whatever the future has waiting for me.
Out of touch? Not at all. Tactile feedback that you refer to is very important and is possibly the main thing that has held back development of these devices.
Touch screen keyboards exist in a prototype stage, check out:
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus-tactus/
And now Nokia claims to have perfected a simulated "keypress response". Whether or not this is just for a mobile phone or can be scaled I'm not sure of, but many design studios are working flat out to marry these two. In this next couple of years you should see some viable products starting to hit the market.
Out of touch? Not at all. Tactile feedback that you refer to is very important and is possibly the main thing that has held back development of these devices.
Touch screen keyboards exist in a prototype stage, check out:
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus-tactus/
And now Nokia claims to have perfected a simulated "keypress response". Whether or not this is just for a mobile phone or can be scaled I'm not sure of, but many design studios are working flat out to marry these two. In this next couple of years you should see some viable products starting to hit the market.
Damn that art lebedev an his cool designs! I see apple doing this for realz! Of course, you know Art will charge 10 grand for it and be at least 4 years late to get it into the marketplace.
But omg I'm sooooo diggin the concept and design.
note: lol "sooooo diggin" I must be in a whitey sorta mood today.
Those keyboards have been around this forum for about 4 years. They have been discussed to death too. I think we could see something similar, but it will be different. I'd go for the Apple redesigned fingerworks gesture-pad alone, but I to think Apple has seen other designs, and have some ideas of their own. Nevertheless I think it's probably going to be about 300 dollars or more for such an item from Apple.
Now we have one difference - Touchscreen keyboard with Tactile Feedback. This has long been thought of as a key component that no one could figure out quite how to do. Lebedev's optimus maximus has been around for years too and now its selling finally. I think we will probably see the tactus do the same thing.
Yes you could add gestures as well, the whole design is perfect for that sort of thing. Something like Sensiva could be very easily integrated into it.
And for the price I think you would have to double your price and then add some - have you seen how much the maximus goes for?