That's the reason that the bible has always been the best-selling book in the world, far above and beyond whatever book is #2 on the list.
Actually, globally, the best selling single book of all time is Quotations of Chairman Mao Zhedong at 6.5 BILLION copies, and it was published in 1966. (Yes, I own a copy)
#2 is the Bible (granted, I believe that the varying versions should be counted seperately, as they have different flavors) at around 5 billion copies sold (no timeline of sales given).
the Qur'an has only sold 200 million copies (tying with A Tale of Two Cities)
Lastly, in the past 10 years, Harry Potter has outsold the bible.
Plus yes...dumbass... if it occurs in nature... IT IS BY DEFINITION NATURAL!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webster Miriam Dictionary
natural |ˈna ch ərəl|
adjective
1 existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind : carrots contain a natural antiseptic that fights bacteria | natural disasters such as earthquakes.
• (of fabric) having a color characteristic of the unbleached and undyed state; off-white.
2 of or in agreement with the character or makeup of, or circumstances surrounding, someone or something : sharks have no natural enemies.
• [ attrib. ] (of a person) born with a particular skill, quality, or ability : he was a natural entertainer.
• (of a skill, quality, or ability) coming instinctively to a person; innate : writing appears to demand muscular movements that are not natural to children.
See note at normal .
• (of a person or their behavior) relaxed and unaffected; spontaneous : he replied with too much nonchalance to sound natural.
• occurring as a matter of course and without debate; inevitable : Ken was a natural choice for coach.
• [ attrib. ] (of law or justice) based on innate moral sense; instinctively felt to be right and fair. See also natural law .
• Bridge (of a bid) straightforwardly reflecting one's holding of cards. Often contrasted with conventional or artificial .
3 [ attrib. ] (of a parent or child) related by blood : such adopted children always knew who their natural parents were.
• chiefly archaic illegitimate : the Baron left a natural son by his mistress.
4 Music (of a note) not sharped or flatted : [ postpositive, in combination ] the bassoon plays G-natural instead of A-flat.
• (of a brass instrument) having no valves and able to play only the notes of the harmonic series above a fundamental note.
• of or relating to the notes and intervals of the harmonic series.
5 Christian Theology relating to earthly or unredeemed human or physical nature as distinct from the spiritual or supernatural realm.
Secondly, you have a very unhealthy obsession with pedophilia, but let me point out that it's only been the past 50-60 years in which sex with a minor has actually been criminal. My great grandparents are from Scotland, great grampa was 19 and great gramma was 14 when they married in 1925 (and by the way, they were married here in the US). In fact, several Christian, Islamic, and Hindu sects, girls are wed to older men soon after their first menstruation. Granted, I've never been interested in younger chicks, as I have a +/-5 year rule, because anything beyond that you get into pop cultural differences. I want to date a girl that won't blank out when I go on about loving Jem & the Holograms as a kid.
As to going to hell, if it means I don't have to deal with naive little shits like you, then so be it. (And I'm guessing the devil's a hot chick like Betty Page)
God put morality in your heart so that you would seek him.
Non-religious folks have no way of describing why ethics and morality exist in mankind (since they do not exist in animals). If we each make our own morality, then there is no reason that anyone should rail against any religious person. Each morality is perfectly valid, and no one has anything to complain about, even bible-thumping. It shouldn't bother you one bit.
But if there is a moral law, there must have been a moral law giver.
Again unbelievable arrogance!
Read Dawkin's The Selfish Gene - which explains perfectly the biological origins of altruism and compassion. Tribes who look out for each other, out-perform those filled with the purely selfish. It's that simple.
Morality has biological origins, but there is no Absolute Moral Law, Right and Wrong depend on context. Which is why human morality varies from moment to moment and from place to place.
If morality was zapped into us by your Sky Fairy, would it not be universal? Or are you saying that your God only provides a moral sense to Christians and Jews and Muslims. And Hindus get theirs from Ganesh and co?
Read Dawkin's The Selfish Gene - which explains perfectly the biological origins of altruism and compassion. Tribes who look out for each other, out-perform those filled with the purely selfish. It's that simple.
Morality has biological origins, but there is no Absolute Moral Law, Right and Wrong depend on context. Which is why human morality varies from moment to moment and from place to place.
If morality was zapped into us by your Sky Fairy, would it not be universal? Or are you saying that your God only provides a moral sense to Christians and Jews and Muslims. And Hindus get theirs from Ganesh and co?
C.
Y'know what, how is it if I claim as an adult to believe in Santa, Fae or Alien contact I'm a nut job, but if I believe in someone's invisible grandpa in a bathrobe I'm pious?
If you get messages from dog you're put in a cell, if you get messages from God you get to tell people how to live their lives.
One cannot believe in our Constitution and expect anything less. I'm in favor of equal rights and equal treatment. This should be legal everywhere, but mostly it should be up to each state and not a decision of the federal government.
I expect that eventually our nation's idiotic, costly drug laws will fall also. It can't happen soon enough, what with the outrageous cost to taxpayers and the damaging effects on our society.
Anything to improve the standing of personal freedoms and rationality in the US.
Morality has biological origins, but there is no Absolute Moral Law, Right and Wrong depend on context. Which is why human morality varies from moment to moment and from place to place.
You seem to be saying that I'm arrogant and this is wrong.
Then you say there's no absolute moral law, no absolute right and wrong.
By what standard are you judging arrogance to be wrong? You have nothing to stand on.
By your definition, then rape, murder, torture, abuse, hanging, lynching....it's all natural.
So why do people get so bothered when such natural things happen?
This is always the defense of folks such as yourself. You believe that without a Christian God, society is immediately thrown into chaos. Why does this not happen in China or India? Because of the social contract and because of the 'natural' law of enlightened self-interest.
It's frightening for people to realize that they really are alone in the universe, but there you are.
This is always the defense of folks such as yourself. You believe that without a Christian God, society is immediately thrown into chaos. Why does this not happen in China or India? Because of the social contract and because of the 'natural' law of enlightened self-interest.
It's frightening for people to realize that they really are alone in the universe, but there you are.
I'm saying that there is a sense of morality in us, and that there is a Truth that explains it. When God tells us he made us in his image, it's a spiritual image, something animals don't have. We are all aware of this to a degree, but there is only one faith that reveals the truth of it. Our image is corrupted, which is why there is evil and sin, and there is only one plan for salvation. That plan is open to everyone, including those in China or India. Free for the taking, from a loving God.
I'm comparing the love between two people, and you're talking about human brutality...
Your priorities are so out of whack. Plus, aside from humans, name me animals that rape, murder, torture, or (my fave) lynch.
I know why fundamentalists resort to this line of defense, I used to be a "believer". It's only after you get outside of your comfort zone and meet and understand the points of view of others that you question your religion. As for the fundamentalists, when people in church I used to attend started to pray on their wallets, that was the last straw for me.
I'm comparing the love between two people, and you're talking about human brutality...
Your priorities are so out of whack. Plus, aside from humans, name me animals that rape, murder, torture, or (my fave) lynch.
The argument was that if it's natural, it is O.K. 'Natural' means what happens in nature. Since everything happens in nature, everything must be O.K.
(it's not true, but that was basically the logic proposed)
Now, if you think that humans are not to be classified as 'nature', we have to discuss what is not natural about us. In that case, the supernatural does exist.
We were discussing the definition of 'natural'. I'm sorry you missed the point.
I'm sorry you missed the definition of "Natural".
I'm done, this used to be fun, but I have a girlfriend that loves me and would like my attention, and I'm slowly getting behind on my comic and the deadline is looming.
You have my sympathies, I hope you find someone who loves you.
I'm done, this used to be fun, but I have a girlfriend that loves me and would like my attention, and I'm slowly getting behind on my comic and the deadline is looming.
You have my sympathies, I hope you find someone who loves you.
What comic? See, I know where my priorities are...
You seem to be saying that I'm arrogant and this is wrong.
Then you say there's no absolute moral law, no absolute right and wrong.
By what standard are you judging arrogance to be wrong? You have nothing to stand on.
I'll explain what I think right and wrong are.
An action is wrong, when it's consequences lead to more harm than good. That's pretty much it.
Of course we don't really know the consequences when we act. Which is why it helps to be smart.
And our evaluation of harm and benefit is personal and subjective.
And like I said already, context is everything. Technology and culture are changing so we need to take that stuff into account.
So there is no Absolute Morality.
There's something much better. Instead individuals endeavor to follow a personal morality. They act with compassion and conscience.
If morality were God given it would be universal. AND it would be unchanging.
But it isn't. You lot can't even agree amongst yourselves.
We see religious organizations flip flopping about. One minute Slavery is OK, nowadays you can't say the N word. Genocide was all the craze back in the day. Now it's practically taboo.
There's something much better. Instead individuals endeavor to follow a personal morality. They act with compassion and conscience.
Then how do you explain righteous indignation at things unrelated to yourself? Let's say you see peaceful protestors being beaten. Let's say you see a rape being committed. If it has nothing to do with you, why would you be righteously indignant, even pained by those sorts of things? Because there IS a universal, moral law. If there weren't, you wouldn't care a whit what happened to a woman being raped. You'd say, "Oh, that's different. Don't see that every day." But you wouldn't be bothered by it. And the person who DID care would be no better than the person who DIDN'T care.
Comments
California. Home to Apple and sensible judges. There's hope for you Yanks yet.
Forget about our high taxation, gridlocked traffic, occasional earthquakes and one too many Democrats.
California. Home to Apple and sensible judges. There's hope for you Yanks yet.
And Arnohld- the steroid cream of the crop!
And let's not forget that other bad actor Ronald Reagan who never mentioned the words AIDS the whole time he was president.
That's the reason that the bible has always been the best-selling book in the world, far above and beyond whatever book is #2 on the list.
Actually, globally, the best selling single book of all time is Quotations of Chairman Mao Zhedong at 6.5 BILLION copies, and it was published in 1966. (Yes, I own a copy)
#2 is the Bible (granted, I believe that the varying versions should be counted seperately, as they have different flavors) at around 5 billion copies sold (no timeline of sales given).
the Qur'an has only sold 200 million copies (tying with A Tale of Two Cities)
Lastly, in the past 10 years, Harry Potter has outsold the bible.
Plus yes...dumbass... if it occurs in nature... IT IS BY DEFINITION NATURAL!!
natural |ˈna ch ərəl|
adjective
1 existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind : carrots contain a natural antiseptic that fights bacteria | natural disasters such as earthquakes.
• (of fabric) having a color characteristic of the unbleached and undyed state; off-white.
2 of or in agreement with the character or makeup of, or circumstances surrounding, someone or something : sharks have no natural enemies.
• [ attrib. ] (of a person) born with a particular skill, quality, or ability : he was a natural entertainer.
• (of a skill, quality, or ability) coming instinctively to a person; innate : writing appears to demand muscular movements that are not natural to children.
See note at normal .
• (of a person or their behavior) relaxed and unaffected; spontaneous : he replied with too much nonchalance to sound natural.
• occurring as a matter of course and without debate; inevitable : Ken was a natural choice for coach.
• [ attrib. ] (of law or justice) based on innate moral sense; instinctively felt to be right and fair. See also natural law .
• Bridge (of a bid) straightforwardly reflecting one's holding of cards. Often contrasted with conventional or artificial .
3 [ attrib. ] (of a parent or child) related by blood : such adopted children always knew who their natural parents were.
• chiefly archaic illegitimate : the Baron left a natural son by his mistress.
4 Music (of a note) not sharped or flatted : [ postpositive, in combination ] the bassoon plays G-natural instead of A-flat.
• (of a brass instrument) having no valves and able to play only the notes of the harmonic series above a fundamental note.
• of or relating to the notes and intervals of the harmonic series.
5 Christian Theology relating to earthly or unredeemed human or physical nature as distinct from the spiritual or supernatural realm.
Secondly, you have a very unhealthy obsession with pedophilia, but let me point out that it's only been the past 50-60 years in which sex with a minor has actually been criminal. My great grandparents are from Scotland, great grampa was 19 and great gramma was 14 when they married in 1925 (and by the way, they were married here in the US). In fact, several Christian, Islamic, and Hindu sects, girls are wed to older men soon after their first menstruation. Granted, I've never been interested in younger chicks, as I have a +/-5 year rule, because anything beyond that you get into pop cultural differences. I want to date a girl that won't blank out when I go on about loving Jem & the Holograms as a kid.
As to going to hell, if it means I don't have to deal with naive little shits like you, then so be it. (And I'm guessing the devil's a hot chick like Betty Page)
God put morality in your heart so that you would seek him.
Non-religious folks have no way of describing why ethics and morality exist in mankind (since they do not exist in animals). If we each make our own morality, then there is no reason that anyone should rail against any religious person. Each morality is perfectly valid, and no one has anything to complain about, even bible-thumping. It shouldn't bother you one bit.
But if there is a moral law, there must have been a moral law giver.
Again unbelievable arrogance!
Read Dawkin's The Selfish Gene - which explains perfectly the biological origins of altruism and compassion. Tribes who look out for each other, out-perform those filled with the purely selfish. It's that simple.
Morality has biological origins, but there is no Absolute Moral Law, Right and Wrong depend on context. Which is why human morality varies from moment to moment and from place to place.
If morality was zapped into us by your Sky Fairy, would it not be universal? Or are you saying that your God only provides a moral sense to Christians and Jews and Muslims. And Hindus get theirs from Ganesh and co?
C.
Again unbelievable arrogance!
Read Dawkin's The Selfish Gene - which explains perfectly the biological origins of altruism and compassion. Tribes who look out for each other, out-perform those filled with the purely selfish. It's that simple.
Morality has biological origins, but there is no Absolute Moral Law, Right and Wrong depend on context. Which is why human morality varies from moment to moment and from place to place.
If morality was zapped into us by your Sky Fairy, would it not be universal? Or are you saying that your God only provides a moral sense to Christians and Jews and Muslims. And Hindus get theirs from Ganesh and co?
C.
Y'know what, how is it if I claim as an adult to believe in Santa, Fae or Alien contact I'm a nut job, but if I believe in someone's invisible grandpa in a bathrobe I'm pious?
If you get messages from dog you're put in a cell, if you get messages from God you get to tell people how to live their lives.
And I'm guessing the devil's a hot chick like Betty Page
You're making it sound more and more attractive.
California. Home to Apple and sensible judges. There's hope for you Yanks yet.
I assume you're talking about today's California Supreme Court ruling.
I assume you're talking about today's California Supreme Court ruling.
One cannot believe in our Constitution and expect anything less. I'm in favor of equal rights and equal treatment. This should be legal everywhere, but mostly it should be up to each state and not a decision of the federal government.
I expect that eventually our nation's idiotic, costly drug laws will fall also. It can't happen soon enough, what with the outrageous cost to taxpayers and the damaging effects on our society.
Anything to improve the standing of personal freedoms and rationality in the US.
I assume you're talking about today's California Supreme Court ruling.
Yes, indeed. Well done Californigay!
Again unbelievable arrogance!
Morality has biological origins, but there is no Absolute Moral Law, Right and Wrong depend on context. Which is why human morality varies from moment to moment and from place to place.
You seem to be saying that I'm arrogant and this is wrong.
Then you say there's no absolute moral law, no absolute right and wrong.
By what standard are you judging arrogance to be wrong? You have nothing to stand on.
Plus yes...dumbass... if it occurs in nature... IT IS BY DEFINITION NATURAL!!
By your definition, then rape, murder, torture, abuse, hanging, lynching....it's all natural.
So why do people get so bothered when such natural things happen?
By your definition, then rape, murder, torture, abuse, hanging, lynching....it's all natural.
So why do people get so bothered when such natural things happen?
This is always the defense of folks such as yourself. You believe that without a Christian God, society is immediately thrown into chaos. Why does this not happen in China or India? Because of the social contract and because of the 'natural' law of enlightened self-interest.
It's frightening for people to realize that they really are alone in the universe, but there you are.
This is always the defense of folks such as yourself. You believe that without a Christian God, society is immediately thrown into chaos. Why does this not happen in China or India? Because of the social contract and because of the 'natural' law of enlightened self-interest.
It's frightening for people to realize that they really are alone in the universe, but there you are.
I'm saying that there is a sense of morality in us, and that there is a Truth that explains it. When God tells us he made us in his image, it's a spiritual image, something animals don't have. We are all aware of this to a degree, but there is only one faith that reveals the truth of it. Our image is corrupted, which is why there is evil and sin, and there is only one plan for salvation. That plan is open to everyone, including those in China or India. Free for the taking, from a loving God.
By your definition, then rape, murder, torture, abuse, hanging, lynching....it's all natural.
So why do people get so bothered when such natural things happen?
wait....
what??
I'm comparing the love between two people, and you're talking about human brutality...
Your priorities are so out of whack. Plus, aside from humans, name me animals that rape, murder, torture, or (my fave) lynch.
wait....
what??
I'm comparing the love between two people, and you're talking about human brutality...
Your priorities are so out of whack. Plus, aside from humans, name me animals that rape, murder, torture, or (my fave) lynch.
I know why fundamentalists resort to this line of defense, I used to be a "believer". It's only after you get outside of your comfort zone and meet and understand the points of view of others that you question your religion. As for the fundamentalists, when people in church I used to attend started to pray on their wallets, that was the last straw for me.
wait....
what??
I'm comparing the love between two people, and you're talking about human brutality...
Your priorities are so out of whack. Plus, aside from humans, name me animals that rape, murder, torture, or (my fave) lynch.
The argument was that if it's natural, it is O.K. 'Natural' means what happens in nature. Since everything happens in nature, everything must be O.K.
(it's not true, but that was basically the logic proposed)
Now, if you think that humans are not to be classified as 'nature', we have to discuss what is not natural about us. In that case, the supernatural does exist.
We were discussing the definition of 'natural'. I'm sorry you missed the point.
I'm sorry you missed the definition of "Natural".
I'm done, this used to be fun, but I have a girlfriend that loves me and would like my attention, and I'm slowly getting behind on my comic and the deadline is looming.
You have my sympathies, I hope you find someone who loves you.
I'm sorry you missed the definition of "Natural".
I'm done, this used to be fun, but I have a girlfriend that loves me and would like my attention, and I'm slowly getting behind on my comic and the deadline is looming.
You have my sympathies, I hope you find someone who loves you.
What comic? See, I know where my priorities are...
You seem to be saying that I'm arrogant and this is wrong.
Then you say there's no absolute moral law, no absolute right and wrong.
By what standard are you judging arrogance to be wrong? You have nothing to stand on.
I'll explain what I think right and wrong are.
An action is wrong, when it's consequences lead to more harm than good. That's pretty much it.
Of course we don't really know the consequences when we act. Which is why it helps to be smart.
And our evaluation of harm and benefit is personal and subjective.
And like I said already, context is everything. Technology and culture are changing so we need to take that stuff into account.
So there is no Absolute Morality.
There's something much better. Instead individuals endeavor to follow a personal morality. They act with compassion and conscience.
If morality were God given it would be universal. AND it would be unchanging.
But it isn't. You lot can't even agree amongst yourselves.
We see religious organizations flip flopping about. One minute Slavery is OK, nowadays you can't say the N word. Genocide was all the craze back in the day. Now it's practically taboo.
C.
So there is no Absolute Morality.
There's something much better. Instead individuals endeavor to follow a personal morality. They act with compassion and conscience.
Then how do you explain righteous indignation at things unrelated to yourself? Let's say you see peaceful protestors being beaten. Let's say you see a rape being committed. If it has nothing to do with you, why would you be righteously indignant, even pained by those sorts of things? Because there IS a universal, moral law. If there weren't, you wouldn't care a whit what happened to a woman being raped. You'd say, "Oh, that's different. Don't see that every day." But you wouldn't be bothered by it. And the person who DID care would be no better than the person who DIDN'T care.