According to this wiki, some A-GPS devices require a cell connection to function. Based on the leaked specs, will the 3G iPhone's GPS continue to function, albeit more slowly, without a cell tower connection?
if there's no internet connection, wifi or EDGE/UMTS, then it will take as long as the gps chips needs to download the data transmitted with the gps signal from the satellites... normally it takes a very long time 30-120seconds... the more obstruction to the satellites, the slower it will be...
I don't think he means what you mean. Just riding around the US can be an exploration. It's not hard to get lost outside the beltways. Take a wrong turn, and you could be ten miles, or even fifty miles in the wrong direction. A GPS will let you know when that happens, and give you the next correct turn no matter how many wrong turns you make.
That's not to say it's perfect, but it's pretty damn good. Anyone who says that they always know where they are is either BSing, or never goes anywhere unusual, where they have never been before, or never makes a wrong turn.
if there's no internet connection, wifi or EDGE/UMTS, then it will take as long as the gps chips needs to download the data transmitted with the gps signal from the satellites... normally it takes a very long time 30-120seconds... the more obstruction to the satellites, the slower it will be...
It also depends on the receiver. The more satellites it can lock to, the faster it does it.
has fcc approval come through? all these rumors about boxes being received by resellers (albeit non-us) - i'm assuming vendors in US wouldn't be receiving boxes if fcc approval has not been issued?
There is a procedure where at least some aspects of approval are withheld from the public, and I think they can include delayed announcement of approval too. It costs more money, but Apple can afford it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab
Apple gets paid a lot of money for "ipod/iphone certified" accessories like docks.
What you aren't saying, at least not directly (it's in one of your links), is that fully implementing all relevant Bluetooth features would undermine the dock business. I think it's very unfortunate. I don't want to buy a wireless headphone dongle for an iphone when the iphone should have the software necessary to make it work. Apple does have a bit of a track record for this too, ipods can record audio, but they won't unless they're hacked or you add an expensive and potentially noise inducing dongle to turn it on.
There is a procedure where at least some aspects of approval are withheld from the public, and I think they can include delayed announcement of approval too. It costs more money, but Apple can afford it.
fcc approval can be withheld until the day the actual device hits the market, but that same day approval has to be posted by the fcc... @ the latest... apple did that a couple of times in the past...
Since T-Mobile USA and its iPhone customers are in a bit of a quandary, I propose a potential option that would allow their iPhone customers to obtain HSDPA speeds without having the fully compatible HSDPA radio spectrum.
Wikipedia states that, "EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network..." That is a higher theoretical maximum than HSDPA's 384kbps theoretical maximum for uploading. And even at the lower 236.8kbps it is still fast enough to HSDPA's upload rate to maintain iPhone users on T-Mobile's network.
What I am proposing is that—once T-Mobile USA gets their 3G network up and running—T-Mobile customers can use the the compatible 3G 2100MHz band for downloading data and their compatible EDGE bands for uploading. On the surface, this appears to me as only a firmware update. GSM and UMTS radios already run independently and are used with in conjunction with each other. Similar to when one is using Safari via WiFi on the iPhone while also on a call; I believe this is how 3G capable devices are able to browse the internet while making a call.
The Pros I see here (if possible) are that using EDGE for the upload could reduce the UMTS chip's load thus making the device more power efficient. It may also be slightly faster processing the data as there are now an independent chips sharing the uplink and downlink data loads.
The Cons I see here (again, if possible) that the system may have issues shuffling both tasks adequately across each platform, though the iPhone does a great job of mixing WiFi and GSM and switching between EDGE and WIFI as needed. If you were using your GSM bands for uploading you would loose the ability to make calls while downloading at 3G speeds over HSDPA.
Disclaimer: My knowledge of cell tech is quite recent and is mostly beget by the clever posters on AI schooling me since the iPhone was announced. If my premise is completely hare-brained feel free to berate me all you want, but I encourage you to make clear how and why it is incorrect.
What I am proposing is that T-Mobile customers can use the the compatible 3G 2100MHz band for downloading data and their compatible EDGE bands for uploading.
I don't know the specific nature of the data packets getting sent and received for mobile devices, but if it is true TCP/IP-based then the routing for such a scenario could be a nightmare. Asymmetric connections (across different network links) can run into all sorts of trouble with packet acknowledgments, etc.
has fcc approval come through? all these rumors about boxes being received by resellers (albeit non-us) - i'm assuming vendors in US wouldn't be receiving boxes if fcc approval has not been issued?
Once the next iPhone comes out I'll be able to deduce more, but based on my findings the entire approval process is clandestine. It is only the official approval that is public records (and even then some records can be kept secret for indefinite periods if it contains IP).
Based on the reports of the previous iPhone, the FCC ID was known to Apple and their certified independent testers long before they ever submitted anything to the FCC. The current iPhone's FCC ID is BCGA1203 appears to be known as far back as 06-FEB-2007 but wasn't submitted to the FCC until 08-MAR-2007. The cover letter to the FCC from Apple contains the FCC ID so I'm surmising that first 3 or 4 letters are a company code and the last 5 or 4 characters account for the device number which increases by a factor of one for each new FCC submission. So we are to expect an FCC ID for the 3G iPhone of BCGA120x.
fcc approval can be withheld until the day the actual device hits the market, but that same day approval has to be posted by the fcc... @ the latest... apple did that a couple of times in the past...
That's about what I would expect. When the product is available for sale, there's no real reason to not post the approval.
has fcc approval come through? all these rumors about boxes being received by resellers (albeit non-us) - i'm assuming vendors in US wouldn't be receiving boxes if fcc approval has not been issued?
There are work arounds. Like beating the FCC people up!
The Pros I see here (if possible) are that using EDGE for the upload could reduce the UMTS chip's load thus making the device more power efficient. It may also be slightly faster processing the data as there are now an independent chips sharing the uplink and downlink data loads.[/I]
Not technically possible. Your phone handoffs from the 2G network to the 3G network.
At that stage the 1900/2100 pairing most commonly used globally for UMTS was already in use. Similarly GSM's 900/1800MHz was in use so the US uses 850/1900.
I think there's a bit of confusion here. There isn't really a 'pairing' between those 3G bands. There are uplink and downlink ranges which aren't necessarily in the same 'hundreds' number. The bands are as follows and each of them is not related to the others in any way:
850 - used in the US, Australia
1900 - used in the US, South America
2100 - used in Europe, Australia, Japan, and many other places
Since T-Mobile USA and its iPhone customers are in a bit of a quandary, I propose a potential option that would allow their iPhone customers to obtain HSDPA speeds without having the fully compatible HSDPA radio spectrum.
Wikipedia states that, "EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network..." That is a higher theoretical maximum than HSDPA's 384kbps theoretical maximum for uploading. And even at the lower 236.8kbps it is still fast enough to HSDPA's upload rate to maintain iPhone users on T-Mobile's network.
What I am proposing is that—once T-Mobile USA gets their 3G network up and running—T-Mobile customers can use the the compatible 3G 2100MHz band for downloading data and their compatible EDGE bands for uploading. On the surface, this appears to me as only a firmware update. GSM and UMTS radios already run independently and are used with in conjunction with each other. Similar to when one is using Safari via WiFi on the iPhone while also on a call; I believe this is how 3G capable devices are able to browse the internet while making a call.
The Pros I see here (if possible) are that using EDGE for the upload could reduce the UMTS chip's load thus making the device more power efficient. It may also be slightly faster processing the data as there are now an independent chips sharing the uplink and downlink data loads.
The Cons I see here (again, if possible) that the system may have issues shuffling both tasks adequately across each platform, though the iPhone does a great job of mixing WiFi and GSM and switching between EDGE and WIFI as needed. If you were using your GSM bands for uploading you would loose the ability to make calls while downloading at 3G speeds over HSDPA.
Disclaimer: My knowledge of cell tech is quite recent and is mostly beget by the clever posters on AI schooling me since the iPhone was announced. If my premise is completely hare-brained feel free to berate me all you want, but I encourage you to make clear how and why it is incorrect.
This won't work. 2G and 3G is not independent (they use the same antenna, the same chips, etc). It isn't supported by the GSM standards, T Mobile use a different frequency to the 'regular' 2100. And endless other technical and software problems.
The next time somebody hits you with that "Macs are more expensive" line and you tell them: "Not any more. They buy the same commodity parts as everybody else;" just remember: this is the downside of that. You get all these leaks about the newest products, so when Apple actually announces them, no matter how earth-shattering they may be, everybody goes: "That's Old News! What else you got?" and the stock goes down.
well, guess what, its from the same tipster as the nano fatty, no one believed it was real, and we all know how that went.
The same tipster website or the same person?
Personally, despite some odd text and the lack of a hold button on the red iPhone, some of the verbage sounds very believable for a poster in an AT&T store. The images of the people look like something we see on Apple's website all the time, not a fakers photoshopping job.
Video chat only working across AT&T customers while in 3G also sounds believable, when I would imagine most would say that video chatting would work across all types of iChat users.
Also, iChat seems like a given to me. As well as, MSN protocols being included to connect with the majority in pretty much every other country but the US, which mainly uses AIM. This may give rise to the previous patent filing, the rumour that .Mac is getting a huge overhaul and will be on Windows. Would Apple also include iChat with MSN protocols? Could ITunes 8 be the key for all this?
Comments
I had no idea what A-GPS was, so I Googled.
Here is Wikipedia's description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGPS
According to this wiki, some A-GPS devices require a cell connection to function. Based on the leaked specs, will the 3G iPhone's GPS continue to function, albeit more slowly, without a cell tower connection?
if there's no internet connection, wifi or EDGE/UMTS, then it will take as long as the gps chips needs to download the data transmitted with the gps signal from the satellites... normally it takes a very long time 30-120seconds... the more obstruction to the satellites, the slower it will be...
yeah because REAL exploring is done in the car.
I don't think he means what you mean. Just riding around the US can be an exploration. It's not hard to get lost outside the beltways. Take a wrong turn, and you could be ten miles, or even fifty miles in the wrong direction. A GPS will let you know when that happens, and give you the next correct turn no matter how many wrong turns you make.
That's not to say it's perfect, but it's pretty damn good. Anyone who says that they always know where they are is either BSing, or never goes anywhere unusual, where they have never been before, or never makes a wrong turn.
Hard to believe.
if there's no internet connection, wifi or EDGE/UMTS, then it will take as long as the gps chips needs to download the data transmitted with the gps signal from the satellites... normally it takes a very long time 30-120seconds... the more obstruction to the satellites, the slower it will be...
It also depends on the receiver. The more satellites it can lock to, the faster it does it.
It also depends on the receiver. The more satellites it can lock to, the faster it does it.
of course!
has fcc approval come through? all these rumors about boxes being received by resellers (albeit non-us) - i'm assuming vendors in US wouldn't be receiving boxes if fcc approval has not been issued?
There is a procedure where at least some aspects of approval are withheld from the public, and I think they can include delayed announcement of approval too. It costs more money, but Apple can afford it.
Apple gets paid a lot of money for "ipod/iphone certified" accessories like docks.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...y/4229530.html
If you want digital output out of ipod dock, you need to pay Apple money licensing fees to get access to the ipod's authentication chip.
http://www.stereophile.com/news/010408wadia/
What you aren't saying, at least not directly (it's in one of your links), is that fully implementing all relevant Bluetooth features would undermine the dock business. I think it's very unfortunate. I don't want to buy a wireless headphone dongle for an iphone when the iphone should have the software necessary to make it work. Apple does have a bit of a track record for this too, ipods can record audio, but they won't unless they're hacked or you add an expensive and potentially noise inducing dongle to turn it on.
There is a procedure where at least some aspects of approval are withheld from the public, and I think they can include delayed announcement of approval too. It costs more money, but Apple can afford it.
fcc approval can be withheld until the day the actual device hits the market, but that same day approval has to be posted by the fcc... @ the latest... apple did that a couple of times in the past...
Wikipedia states that, "EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network..." That is a higher theoretical maximum than HSDPA's 384kbps theoretical maximum for uploading. And even at the lower 236.8kbps it is still fast enough to HSDPA's upload rate to maintain iPhone users on T-Mobile's network.
What I am proposing is that—once T-Mobile USA gets their 3G network up and running—T-Mobile customers can use the the compatible 3G 2100MHz band for downloading data and their compatible EDGE bands for uploading. On the surface, this appears to me as only a firmware update. GSM and UMTS radios already run independently and are used with in conjunction with each other. Similar to when one is using Safari via WiFi on the iPhone while also on a call; I believe this is how 3G capable devices are able to browse the internet while making a call.
Disclaimer: My knowledge of cell tech is quite recent and is mostly beget by the clever posters on AI schooling me since the iPhone was announced. If my premise is completely hare-brained feel free to berate me all you want, but I encourage you to make clear how and why it is incorrect.
What I am proposing is that T-Mobile customers can use the the compatible 3G 2100MHz band for downloading data and their compatible EDGE bands for uploading.
I don't know the specific nature of the data packets getting sent and received for mobile devices, but if it is true TCP/IP-based then the routing for such a scenario could be a nightmare. Asymmetric connections (across different network links) can run into all sorts of trouble with packet acknowledgments, etc.
has fcc approval come through? all these rumors about boxes being received by resellers (albeit non-us) - i'm assuming vendors in US wouldn't be receiving boxes if fcc approval has not been issued?
Once the next iPhone comes out I'll be able to deduce more, but based on my findings the entire approval process is clandestine. It is only the official approval that is public records (and even then some records can be kept secret for indefinite periods if it contains IP).
Based on the reports of the previous iPhone, the FCC ID was known to Apple and their certified independent testers long before they ever submitted anything to the FCC. The current iPhone's FCC ID is BCGA1203 appears to be known as far back as 06-FEB-2007 but wasn't submitted to the FCC until 08-MAR-2007. The cover letter to the FCC from Apple contains the FCC ID so I'm surmising that first 3 or 4 letters are a company code and the last 5 or 4 characters account for the device number which increases by a factor of one for each new FCC submission. So we are to expect an FCC ID for the 3G iPhone of BCGA120x.
fcc approval can be withheld until the day the actual device hits the market, but that same day approval has to be posted by the fcc... @ the latest... apple did that a couple of times in the past...
That's about what I would expect. When the product is available for sale, there's no real reason to not post the approval.
has fcc approval come through? all these rumors about boxes being received by resellers (albeit non-us) - i'm assuming vendors in US wouldn't be receiving boxes if fcc approval has not been issued?
There are work arounds. Like beating the FCC people up!
The Pros I see here (if possible) are that using EDGE for the upload could reduce the UMTS chip's load thus making the device more power efficient. It may also be slightly faster processing the data as there are now an independent chips sharing the uplink and downlink data loads.[/I]
Not technically possible. Your phone handoffs from the 2G network to the 3G network.
At that stage the 1900/2100 pairing most commonly used globally for UMTS was already in use. Similarly GSM's 900/1800MHz was in use so the US uses 850/1900.
I think there's a bit of confusion here. There isn't really a 'pairing' between those 3G bands. There are uplink and downlink ranges which aren't necessarily in the same 'hundreds' number. The bands are as follows and each of them is not related to the others in any way:
850 - used in the US, Australia
1900 - used in the US, South America
2100 - used in Europe, Australia, Japan, and many other places
1700 - used by T-Mobile in the US only.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands for the full details and their proper names
the iphone will support up to 42Mbit hsdpa speeds!
Considers HSDPA supports a maximum of 14.4Mbits/sec, I very much doubt it.
Since T-Mobile USA and its iPhone customers are in a bit of a quandary, I propose a potential option that would allow their iPhone customers to obtain HSDPA speeds without having the fully compatible HSDPA radio spectrum.
Wikipedia states that, "EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network..." That is a higher theoretical maximum than HSDPA's 384kbps theoretical maximum for uploading. And even at the lower 236.8kbps it is still fast enough to HSDPA's upload rate to maintain iPhone users on T-Mobile's network.
What I am proposing is that—once T-Mobile USA gets their 3G network up and running—T-Mobile customers can use the the compatible 3G 2100MHz band for downloading data and their compatible EDGE bands for uploading. On the surface, this appears to me as only a firmware update. GSM and UMTS radios already run independently and are used with in conjunction with each other. Similar to when one is using Safari via WiFi on the iPhone while also on a call; I believe this is how 3G capable devices are able to browse the internet while making a call.
Disclaimer: My knowledge of cell tech is quite recent and is mostly beget by the clever posters on AI schooling me since the iPhone was announced. If my premise is completely hare-brained feel free to berate me all you want, but I encourage you to make clear how and why it is incorrect.
This won't work. 2G and 3G is not independent (they use the same antenna, the same chips, etc). It isn't supported by the GSM standards, T Mobile use a different frequency to the 'regular' 2100. And endless other technical and software problems.
here's the link for more images
http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/06/06...eck-and-check/
They aren't even believable fakes.
well, guess what, its from the same tipster as the nano fatty, no one believed it was real, and we all know how that went.
well, guess what, its from the same tipster as the nano fatty, no one believed it was real, and we all know how that went.
The same tipster website or the same person?
Personally, despite some odd text and the lack of a hold button on the red iPhone, some of the verbage sounds very believable for a poster in an AT&T store. The images of the people look like something we see on Apple's website all the time, not a fakers photoshopping job.
Video chat only working across AT&T customers while in 3G also sounds believable, when I would imagine most would say that video chatting would work across all types of iChat users.
Also, iChat seems like a given to me. As well as, MSN protocols being included to connect with the majority in pretty much every other country but the US, which mainly uses AIM. This may give rise to the previous patent filing, the rumour that .Mac is getting a huge overhaul and will be on Windows. Would Apple also include iChat with MSN protocols? Could ITunes 8 be the key for all this?