Going by the hardware designs coming out of them so far... it wouldn't be that great. Although if this does help open up the market for someone to make a better Macbook Pro than the Macbook Pro by the time Nehalem comes out, then that would be fantastic.
Sebastian
Indeed based on their current efforts I imagine it would be big, ugly, loud and run very hot.
Also, I imagine Apple will have made a better MacBook Pro than the MacBook Pro by the time Nehalem is out if rumours are to be believed.
There is no continuous copy protection check on OS X.
There is on OS X Server, which has a serial number and a daemon that contacts Apple periodically and disables aspects of the system if the serial number is invalid.
Why hasn't Apple sued them yet? Or, at least, sent them a cease-and-desist letter?
If Apple smacks down Psystar via Snow Leopard next year, is that considered to be a sufficiently vigorous protection of their IP? That is, if Psystar gets to make Leopard-compatible hardware for 15 months or so, what is to prevent anyone else from ignoring the terms of the EULA with impunity?
You mean who IS going to buy a Psycrapy Serv with hacked drivers? Answer: No one but the desperate people who hate Apple.
Why is it that anyone who speaks against Apple is a hater. This fanboy image really needs to change. Are the people over in the Apple forum screaming about their ATV's not working haters or just people who want what they paid for to work?
Back to the issue, if Psystar is making crap, everyone will know soon enough. It will be reviewed and dismissed. This is obviously not a product any serious enterprise would consider purchasing.
CDs and Network connections are the norm and have been for some time. Even Dell's rack mounted servers only offer it as an external USB device.
But if you are going to use a hacked copy of OS X Server in your network then wanting or using a floppy drive may not be too far fetched.
Not completely true. Sad to say, but our brand new servers are fitted with floppy slots. Even sadder to say, they are used daily for some purposes. So, in reality there are limited uses for floppy drives.
On a personal note, I have a gig of offline floppy storage in a RAID 5 array. It generates heat but feel secure with my 1 gig of storage.
Sometimes, some comments on AI sound pretty clueless.
Floppy is used to install drivers and update firmware. For example, you bought a new RAID card, hook up 6 super fast SAS drives, and want to install Windows on it, but Windows installer doesn't have the driver. Download the driver to the floppy and Windows will find it.
And for a server, RAID is absolutely necessary.
Or...you want to update the BIOS...same thing, copy the firmware updater to the floppy and boot from floppy.
Mac users don't encounter this problem because Apple is simply more elegant..... and there are much fewer hardware choices (how many RAID card are available for Mac?) than for PC.
So, stop making fun of the floppy drive. It will still be standard component on servers for the next ten years....and even if it is not internal, the server admin would have a USB floppy drive hidden somewhere.
Here is a thought for you. Servers tend to be connected to the internet, well in my experience anyway. Modern software can actually check for updates on line. The idea of using a floppy drive is funny to Mac users I suspect because Apple dropped them in their consumer machines eons ago as useless relics but I understand PC manufacturers continued to use them for a long time, maybe they still do for all I know. Think of it as if a car manufacturer fitted a connection to attach a horse, a few folks would see that as funny while perhaps a lover of horse carts wouldn't.
I don't see anything wrong with it. I know of no other company selling OSx86 on a pre-built PC. I also see the odd move to sell an OSx86 Server as quite aggressive.
I was just wondering ... Do you think Apple might ever consider a different approach. Not condoning clones as such but selling a different version of OS X to the open PC market. An OS X -PC version. This could be slightly different, simplified perhaps to reduce hardware problems and also to allow the flag ship product to remain Apple hardware based only. I am trying to think if this would be incremental business or potentially detrimental to the sale of hardware. I suspect the latter is the current view. The potential sales could be astronomical in the wake of Vista.
Who says they haven't? Regardless of whether or not they said Hi to Psystar yet, what Psystar is doing is clearly not eating into Apple's own sales so why the hell should Apple care?
There is a need to protect a name brand and to protect IP that is being illegally as it sets a precedence. But that doesn't mean that Apple have to send in their sharks right away. The misused EULA appears to be a civil, not criminal, case so Apple would do nothing but hurt it's brand name, give Psystar free publicity, and Apple would not profit from such a case right now nor prevent Psystar from not-profiting from the continued sales if they litigated right now.
I still think a HW authentication chip is the best option Apple has. (I'm becoming like Irelnad with my assurance and obsession with this idea )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist
I was always one of those who argued that Apple would never, in 10 million years, license OS X. However, with the purchase of PA Semi, the announcement of Snow Leopard, and the lack of action against Psystar, I'm beginning to reevaluate that.
If Apple was going to license OS X to the generic PCs I'd think they would have done the opposite of what you mentioned. P.A. Semi would not have been purchased (unless their IP really is for Apple's PMP line) and Apple would be going after Psystar to prevent generic clones until they are ready to sell them as OS X will cost more than the paltry $129 they are selling it at.
The idea of Snow Leopard being Intel only and not having any new features does sway in your favour, but not to a point that makes it believable. The dropping of PPC and optimization of multi-core systems and GPUs is plenty of work for Apple. Furthermore, if Apple was going to license their OS, they would have done so prior to Jobs return when they were losing customers in droves and had the major PC manufacturers looking to pay top dollar to get out of MS' thumb. Now that they are thriving, it certainly won't happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhomerun
seriously, what happens when apple updates the software and everything has to be cracked again? a real enterprise can't deal with all that. a real enterprise can afford xserves if they really need them over windows or linux servers.
psystar is also doing a huge disservice to the osx86 community, stealing their work for commercial product. psystar isn't contributing a thing.
They altered the Software Update app to point to their servers. I have a friend who has actaully gone to their site on more than one occasion to DL the latest drivers for OX86 Leopard.
Yeah whoever mentioned the '95 Darwin award was right, but at some point Apple won't stoop to the level of such morons. You get a server for reliability and support; if you're selling big-ticket items and your server(s) go(es) down, the money you saved on hardware goes out the window.
The prices of their machines, outside of the base model, quickly creep up past Apple's prices for a comparable machine when you start upping the specs. And the YouTube videos should that it is less optimized and very, very loud. What boggles my mind is that the target audience for this seems to be small as I would think people would just build their own or buy a real Mac. If you can't torrent a copy of OSx86 and install it on some component HW using the available Wikis there is no way you should own a Psystar machine. The argument that they want something pre-made doesn't work for me because the HW setup and install is simple; and the argument that they want a cheaper Mac does work either because it's cheaper to buy the parts yourself and save $129 on DLing OSx86.
Who are these customers? I figure Psystar is doing okay if they have an Xserve option now... but like the kid and train, they are getting a little closer until they get hit hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave
Why hasn't Apple sued them yet? Or, at least, sent them a cease-and-desist letter?
If Apple smacks down Psystar via Snow Leopard next year, is that considered to be a sufficiently vigorous protection of their IP? That is, if Psystar gets to make Leopard-compatible hardware for 15 months or so, what is to prevent anyone else from ignoring the terms of the EULA with impunity?
That is why I think HW authentication is imminent (I officially have the Irish preoccupation disease). There really is no stopping it. Apple may have sent a C&D, but that doesn't mean Psystar has to apply if they know that it really be enforced.
Not completely true. Sad to say, but our brand new servers are fitted with floppy slots. Even sadder to say, they are used daily for some purposes. So, in reality there are limited uses for floppy drives.
On a personal note, I have a gig of offline floppy storage in a RAID 5 array. It generates heat but feel secure with my 1 gig of storage.
I said "the norm", I never use absolutes but my posts always seem to be interpreted that way on all these tech forums.
Are you really copying the files from a workstation onto a floppy and then putting them in the servers to install? Or are you still getting updates mailed to you on a floppy. If it's teh former, may I suggest using a USB flash drive. It's faster to read and write.
Note: There are companies that disable USB on their computers for security reasons. So using a slow, low capacity mechanism may be used as a security measure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I was just wondering ... Do you think Apple might ever consider a different approach. Not condoning clones as such but selling a different version of OS X to the open PC market. An OS X -PC version. This could be slightly different, simplified perhaps to reduce hardware problems and also to allow the flag ship product to remain Apple hardware based only. I am trying to think if this would be incremental business or potentially detrimental to the sale of hardware. I suspect the latter is the current view. The potential sales could be astronomical in the wake of Vista.
Apple put the kibosh on clones when he returned. If they were going to license to others I think it would have been when they were suffering in the mid-to-late 90s when they could have benefited financially, gotten a huge marketshare of the consumer market while bringing down Windows. Apple just isn't interested in it, and Jobs seems to absolutely hate it.
I said "the norm", I never use absolutes but they always seem to be interpreted that one all these tech forums.
Are you really copying the files from a workstation onto a floppy and then putting them in the servers to install? Or are you still getting updates mailed to you on a floppy. If it's teh former, may I suggest using a USB flash drive. It's faster to read and write.
Note: There are companies that disable USB on their computers for security reasons. So using a slow, low capacity mechanism may be used as a security measure.
Sorry dude. I did not clarify. My bad. I work for the State Department. Hopefully you will understand why we use floppy drives based on where I work. I could tell you but then I would have to kill you.
Sorry dude. I did not clarify. My bad. I work for the State Department. Hopefully you will understand why we use floppy drives based on where I work. I could tell you but then I would have to kill you.
Let me understand. The State Department has determined the Internet is far to unsafe for drivers. So to extrapolate from this; our nations security data is also on floppies?
Let me understand. The State Department has determined the Internet is far to unsafe for drivers. So to extrapolate from this; our nations security data is also on floppies?
I didn't say this. You did. I just didn't say what we use the floppies for. You are of course free to speculate as need be. However, floppies are used daily within State.
I didn't say this. You did. I just didn't say what we use the floppies for. You are of course free to speculate as need be. However, floppies are used daily within State.
It was only a jest
However it is a great way for procurement to ensure Macs have a hard time being purchased. "Computers and Servers must have integrated internal Floppy"
Let me understand. The State Department has determined the Internet is far to unsafe for drivers.
Keep in mind that DNS servers can be and have been hijacked on occasion, and sometimes it takes time to find as most of the entries can be accurate except for a few targeted sites.. Then that can mean that a handful of sites can be redirected to sites that are mirrors of the real site but have malicious code in their downloads.
Keep in mind that DNS servers can be and have been hijacked on occasion, and sometimes it takes time to find as most of the entries can be accurate except for a few targeted sites.. Then that can mean that a handful of sites can be redirected to sites that are mirrors of the real site but have malicious code in their downloads.
You missed half of my quote thus removing the humor. Partial quoting is best left to the political scene
Comments
Going by the hardware designs coming out of them so far... it wouldn't be that great. Although if this does help open up the market for someone to make a better Macbook Pro than the Macbook Pro by the time Nehalem comes out, then that would be fantastic.
Sebastian
Indeed based on their current efforts I imagine it would be big, ugly, loud and run very hot.
Also, I imagine Apple will have made a better MacBook Pro than the MacBook Pro by the time Nehalem is out if rumours are to be believed.
There is no continuous copy protection check on OS X.
There is on OS X Server, which has a serial number and a daemon that contacts Apple periodically and disables aspects of the system if the serial number is invalid.
If Apple smacks down Psystar via Snow Leopard next year, is that considered to be a sufficiently vigorous protection of their IP? That is, if Psystar gets to make Leopard-compatible hardware for 15 months or so, what is to prevent anyone else from ignoring the terms of the EULA with impunity?
You mean who IS going to buy a Psycrapy Serv with hacked drivers? Answer: No one but the desperate people who hate Apple.
Why is it that anyone who speaks against Apple is a hater. This fanboy image really needs to change. Are the people over in the Apple forum screaming about their ATV's not working haters or just people who want what they paid for to work?
Back to the issue, if Psystar is making crap, everyone will know soon enough. It will be reviewed and dismissed. This is obviously not a product any serious enterprise would consider purchasing.
CDs and Network connections are the norm and have been for some time. Even Dell's rack mounted servers only offer it as an external USB device.
But if you are going to use a hacked copy of OS X Server in your network then wanting or using a floppy drive may not be too far fetched.
Not completely true. Sad to say, but our brand new servers are fitted with floppy slots. Even sadder to say, they are used daily for some purposes. So, in reality there are limited uses for floppy drives.
On a personal note, I have a gig of offline floppy storage in a RAID 5 array. It generates heat but feel secure with my 1 gig of storage.
Sometimes, some comments on AI sound pretty clueless.
Floppy is used to install drivers and update firmware. For example, you bought a new RAID card, hook up 6 super fast SAS drives, and want to install Windows on it, but Windows installer doesn't have the driver. Download the driver to the floppy and Windows will find it.
And for a server, RAID is absolutely necessary.
Or...you want to update the BIOS...same thing, copy the firmware updater to the floppy and boot from floppy.
Mac users don't encounter this problem because Apple is simply more elegant..... and there are much fewer hardware choices (how many RAID card are available for Mac?) than for PC.
So, stop making fun of the floppy drive. It will still be standard component on servers for the next ten years....and even if it is not internal, the server admin would have a USB floppy drive hidden somewhere.
Here is a thought for you. Servers tend to be connected to the internet, well in my experience anyway. Modern software can actually check for updates on line. The idea of using a floppy drive is funny to Mac users I suspect because Apple dropped them in their consumer machines eons ago as useless relics but I understand PC manufacturers continued to use them for a long time, maybe they still do for all I know. Think of it as if a car manufacturer fitted a connection to attach a horse, a few folks would see that as funny while perhaps a lover of horse carts wouldn't.
That group probably just complied with a C&D rather than continue and risk legal action.
Did Psystar get a C&D or not?
I thought it was built into Intel chips, as well as chips by other chip makers.
Are the OSX86 coders any more legally "in the right" than Psystar?
The OSx86 coders are not trying to sell machines - they do it for their personal use.
I don't see anything wrong with it. I know of no other company selling OSx86 on a pre-built PC. I also see the odd move to sell an OSx86 Server as quite aggressive.
I was just wondering ... Do you think Apple might ever consider a different approach. Not condoning clones as such but selling a different version of OS X to the open PC market. An OS X -PC version. This could be slightly different, simplified perhaps to reduce hardware problems and also to allow the flag ship product to remain Apple hardware based only. I am trying to think if this would be incremental business or potentially detrimental to the sale of hardware. I suspect the latter is the current view. The potential sales could be astronomical in the wake of Vista.
Who says they haven't? Regardless of whether or not they said Hi to Psystar yet, what Psystar is doing is clearly not eating into Apple's own sales so why the hell should Apple care?
There is a need to protect a name brand and to protect IP that is being illegally as it sets a precedence. But that doesn't mean that Apple have to send in their sharks right away. The misused EULA appears to be a civil, not criminal, case so Apple would do nothing but hurt it's brand name, give Psystar free publicity, and Apple would not profit from such a case right now nor prevent Psystar from not-profiting from the continued sales if they litigated right now.
I still think a HW authentication chip is the best option Apple has. (I'm becoming like Irelnad with my assurance and obsession with this idea
I was always one of those who argued that Apple would never, in 10 million years, license OS X. However, with the purchase of PA Semi, the announcement of Snow Leopard, and the lack of action against Psystar, I'm beginning to reevaluate that.
If Apple was going to license OS X to the generic PCs I'd think they would have done the opposite of what you mentioned. P.A. Semi would not have been purchased (unless their IP really is for Apple's PMP line) and Apple would be going after Psystar to prevent generic clones until they are ready to sell them as OS X will cost more than the paltry $129 they are selling it at.
The idea of Snow Leopard being Intel only and not having any new features does sway in your favour, but not to a point that makes it believable. The dropping of PPC and optimization of multi-core systems and GPUs is plenty of work for Apple. Furthermore, if Apple was going to license their OS, they would have done so prior to Jobs return when they were losing customers in droves and had the major PC manufacturers looking to pay top dollar to get out of MS' thumb. Now that they are thriving, it certainly won't happen.
seriously, what happens when apple updates the software and everything has to be cracked again? a real enterprise can't deal with all that. a real enterprise can afford xserves if they really need them over windows or linux servers.
psystar is also doing a huge disservice to the osx86 community, stealing their work for commercial product. psystar isn't contributing a thing.
They altered the Software Update app to point to their servers. I have a friend who has actaully gone to their site on more than one occasion to DL the latest drivers for OX86 Leopard.
Yeah whoever mentioned the '95 Darwin award was right, but at some point Apple won't stoop to the level of such morons. You get a server for reliability and support; if you're selling big-ticket items and your server(s) go(es) down, the money you saved on hardware goes out the window.
The prices of their machines, outside of the base model, quickly creep up past Apple's prices for a comparable machine when you start upping the specs. And the YouTube videos should that it is less optimized and very, very loud. What boggles my mind is that the target audience for this seems to be small as I would think people would just build their own or buy a real Mac. If you can't torrent a copy of OSx86 and install it on some component HW using the available Wikis there is no way you should own a Psystar machine. The argument that they want something pre-made doesn't work for me because the HW setup and install is simple; and the argument that they want a cheaper Mac does work either because it's cheaper to buy the parts yourself and save $129 on DLing OSx86.
Who are these customers? I figure Psystar is doing okay if they have an Xserve option now... but like the kid and train, they are getting a little closer until they get hit hard.
Why hasn't Apple sued them yet? Or, at least, sent them a cease-and-desist letter?
If Apple smacks down Psystar via Snow Leopard next year, is that considered to be a sufficiently vigorous protection of their IP? That is, if Psystar gets to make Leopard-compatible hardware for 15 months or so, what is to prevent anyone else from ignoring the terms of the EULA with impunity?
That is why I think HW authentication is imminent (I officially have the Irish preoccupation disease). There really is no stopping it. Apple may have sent a C&D, but that doesn't mean Psystar has to apply if they know that it really be enforced.
Not completely true. Sad to say, but our brand new servers are fitted with floppy slots. Even sadder to say, they are used daily for some purposes. So, in reality there are limited uses for floppy drives.
On a personal note, I have a gig of offline floppy storage in a RAID 5 array. It generates heat but feel secure with my 1 gig of storage.
I said "the norm", I never use absolutes but my posts always seem to be interpreted that way on all these tech forums.
Are you really copying the files from a workstation onto a floppy and then putting them in the servers to install? Or are you still getting updates mailed to you on a floppy. If it's teh former, may I suggest using a USB flash drive. It's faster to read and write.
Note: There are companies that disable USB on their computers for security reasons. So using a slow, low capacity mechanism may be used as a security measure.
I was just wondering ... Do you think Apple might ever consider a different approach. Not condoning clones as such but selling a different version of OS X to the open PC market. An OS X -PC version. This could be slightly different, simplified perhaps to reduce hardware problems and also to allow the flag ship product to remain Apple hardware based only. I am trying to think if this would be incremental business or potentially detrimental to the sale of hardware. I suspect the latter is the current view. The potential sales could be astronomical in the wake of Vista.
Apple put the kibosh on clones when he returned. If they were going to license to others I think it would have been when they were suffering in the mid-to-late 90s when they could have benefited financially, gotten a huge marketshare of the consumer market while bringing down Windows. Apple just isn't interested in it, and Jobs seems to absolutely hate it.
I said "the norm", I never use absolutes but they always seem to be interpreted that one all these tech forums.
Are you really copying the files from a workstation onto a floppy and then putting them in the servers to install? Or are you still getting updates mailed to you on a floppy. If it's teh former, may I suggest using a USB flash drive. It's faster to read and write.
Note: There are companies that disable USB on their computers for security reasons. So using a slow, low capacity mechanism may be used as a security measure.
Sorry dude. I did not clarify. My bad. I work for the State Department. Hopefully you will understand why we use floppy drives based on where I work. I could tell you but then I would have to kill you.
Sorry dude. I did not clarify. My bad. I work for the State Department. Hopefully you will understand why we use floppy drives based on where I work. I could tell you but then I would have to kill you.
Let me understand. The State Department has determined the Internet is far to unsafe for drivers. So to extrapolate from this; our nations security data is also on floppies?
Let me understand. The State Department has determined the Internet is far to unsafe for drivers. So to extrapolate from this; our nations security data is also on floppies?
I didn't say this. You did. I just didn't say what we use the floppies for. You are of course free to speculate as need be.
I didn't say this. You did. I just didn't say what we use the floppies for. You are of course free to speculate as need be.
It was only a jest
However it is a great way for procurement to ensure Macs have a hard time being purchased. "Computers and Servers must have integrated internal Floppy"
Let me understand. The State Department has determined the Internet is far to unsafe for drivers.
Keep in mind that DNS servers can be and have been hijacked on occasion, and sometimes it takes time to find as most of the entries can be accurate except for a few targeted sites.. Then that can mean that a handful of sites can be redirected to sites that are mirrors of the real site but have malicious code in their downloads.
Keep in mind that DNS servers can be and have been hijacked on occasion, and sometimes it takes time to find as most of the entries can be accurate except for a few targeted sites.. Then that can mean that a handful of sites can be redirected to sites that are mirrors of the real site but have malicious code in their downloads.
You missed half of my quote thus removing the humor. Partial quoting is best left to the political scene
You missed half of my quote thus removing the humor. Partial quoting is best left to the political scene
Sometimes I can't tell it's a joke. I usually cut out what I don't think is important, but for conciseness reasons only.
I never heard anything about this when 10.5.3 arrived.