Looking at the current state of the Snow Leopard build things are not good for PPC.
Much like G3 support was stripped out of both the Applications and Kernel Extensions support in 10.5 there is mounting evidenence that kernel extensions alone would not re-enable PPC support.
In the latest builds many of the kernel extensions are now listed as Intel only, the Finder.app (along with many others) is also listed as only supporting 386 and x64 architectures, no ppc. This means that it would not run on PPC at all - much like people found that iTunes, etc wouldn't run on later beta builds of Leopard when installed on a G3.
I'll keep monitoring the builds and of course the final release of Snow Leopard - but expect the complete removal of PPC support, except where it props up Rosetta to run some PPC code on Intel machines.
Cool - please let me know if you have success with 10.5.7. I tried installing the combo update over 10.5.5, and then copying back the original kexts, but then I got the no platform found error on start up. I feel like I am just overlooking something simple though.
It would be nice to see Snow Leopard on a PPC, but I'm following the keynote at WWDC right now, and Phil says "All the major system apps run in 64-bit mode in Snow Leopard." So I guess that means it really is a no-go for PPC's.
I've found that on the Pismo if the battery is placed in the right hand bay it is recognised and the time-facility works automatically (unlike in Tiger, where it had to be re-added by using an older version of the battery driver).
I'd be really grateful if you could forward me the kext you wrote for the left hand bay battery, to enable it to be recognised.
Well, it looks like Apple just rolled out OS X 10.5.8, the final Leopard release before the jump to Snow Leopard. It would be great if we could get our legacy macs working all the way up to 10.5.8 before Apple puts the nail in the PPC coffin with Snow Leopard.
I'll be trying what I can with the limited time I have...but James I might have to rely on your expertise to get this one working!
I was able to install Safari 4.0.3 on my 10.5.5 B&W G4.
The only change to the instructions I had to modify was that everywhere the article mentions 10.5.6, replace it with 10.5.7 instead, since the latest version of Safari 4 will be looking for that.
Top Sites work and I have no issues to report so far. The main reason I did this is because I installed iTunes 9 and clicked on the App Store and it said it needed Safari 4.0.3 in order to work.
I'd still like to get this thing all the way up to full Leopard 10.5.8, but I haven't been able to spend any time on experimenting with that yet. For now, I am content down here at 10.5.5.
once again I gave Leopard a try on the G4 upgraded PowerBook Wallstreet.
I was able to install 10.5.8 but after installing it I had to install *all* the kexts again that are needed to run our old machines and that aren't there anymore within a Leopard installation. It seems that the 10.5.8 installed wants to clean the installed kexts.
Also I was able to use the standard IOGraphicsFamily.kext that ships with 10.5.x using versions of AppleGossamerPE.kext and AppleGracklePCI,kext that I had updated and modified to match more the behaviour of their newer equivalents AppleMacRISC2PE.kext and AppleMacRiscPCI.kext.
Additionally I recompiled the PMUBatteryHelper.kext to now work on Leopard. That one corrects the issue that the left hand battery on PowerBooks that have two media bays (Wallstreet, Lombard, Pismo) isn't recognized.
In order to get the PCCard driver to work I also had to modify IOPCIFamily.kext. This is of use on Lombard and Wallstreet machines only.
Should there be any interest in those kexts please send me a message!
Sadly I still get corruption and hangups when I use a second RAM module. Using only one (that means 256 MB) everything is working fine. I'll also update the AppleHeathrow.kext and possibly also HeathrowATA.kext soon in a try to fix that problem. In case the reason isn't in all those kexts it would probably be in the kernel itself where it would be horrible to track down...
However despite of the fact that I have a maximum amount of RAM of just 256 MB 10.5.8 is running very well and in my opinion *much* faster than bare 10.5.
P.S: I still have got the L2-Cache enabling BootX (Mac OS X boot loader) - the only way I know of having 10.5 recognize that there really is L2 cache built-in.
Just wanted to post that I was able to get OS X 10.5.8 running on my B&W G3 with a 500 MHz G4 upgrade, pretty much following James' posted method.
Unfortunately, the on-board USB, Firewire, and networking are still not working. However, all my PCI cards work, including a Sonnet ATA/133, combo USB 2.0/Firewire, and Radeon 7000. I have a gigabit Ethernet PCI card being shipped to me, so the on-board troubles MAY be moot, if I can get that running.
One problem I'm having is that my retail copy of Leopard is version 10.5.6, so I can't get the kexts for anything lower than that. I don't own the WWDC 2006 version. If anyone has gotten Leopard 10.5.8 to work on a B&W (with on-board ports working), can you send me the kexts that you used?
To get the thing to boot, I had to replace "IONDRVSupport.kext" with the version from 10.4.11. It seems stable - running two days with no glitches - but I'd be interested in getting a more up-to-date copy of this, if possible.
Also, I noticed in James' article, he mentions replacing "IOUSBFamily.kext" with the 2006 version, but that kext isn't available for download on that page. If someone could send me that, it would be excellent.
I've really appreciated all the post and information that people have posted. It's been very helpful, and I'm pretty excited that this old computer is almost to the point where it's completely usable!
So, I'm currently writing this post from my B&W G3 running 10.5.8. Everything seems to be working acceptably well. I installed my new gigabit Ethernet card, installed the drivers, and it showed up instantly. Still no on-board USB, Firewire, or Ethernet working, but I can live with that.
I did have to temporarily get the on-board Ethernet working, because Time Machine was complaining that it couldn't find the built-in networking. So I installed the 10.4.11 versions of IONetworkingFamily and AppleMaceEthernet and rebooted. Built-in Ethernet came on, I configured Time Machine, then switched back to the new versions of those kexts and back to the gigabit card. Everything seems to be running fine, now, but I'll still need to do some more testing.
So, it seems that the only kexts that I had to completely replace from 10.5.8 were IOGraphicsFamily and IONDRVSupport. I'm still using the 10.4.11 version of IONDRVSupport, so if someone could send me a more up-to-date 10.5 version that works on the B&W, that would be awesome.
It is so good to see progress still going on this. I am going to give another go at upgrading my B&W from 10.5.5 to 10.5.8 over the holidays. Maybe once everyone is all upgraded and stable on 10.5.8, we could come up with an easy to reference list of kexts, sub-kexts, and their versions by mac-type for future reference.
After re-compiling your PMUBatteryHelper.kext for 10.5 (on 10.5.8 using xcode 3.1.4), and performing a reset of the PMU via the reset button, the left hand battery on the Pismo is now recognised.
I've been monitoring the behaviour of the batteries on the Pismo. The battery is now recognised as a power source and the battery monitor can calculate the time and percentage of charge left some data is not getting through to the higher OS software.
If just the left hand battery is inserted the level of the battery icon never changes from full. Apple System Profiler and other battery monitoring software (Coconut battery http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/) doesn't recognise it properly.
However, all the details start working when a battery is inserted into the (already supported) right hand battery bay.
I'm going to have a look at which functions the battery monitors access to get the battery stats - as one method works - but the 'official' apple method is still problematic.
Do you know if this is the case on your Wallstreet too? Anyone else have some Pismo experiences to share?
If nothing else, I have to say Mac users keeping old machines running is doing the right thing in terms of the environment, by keeping old machines out of landfills and still in action. I like to fire up my Color Classic every now and then. I've seen so many Classic Macs still doing various tasks. Somehow, though, I don't think I'll be running OS X on my Classic any time soon though! Unless I inherit an old Cube or mini and do some hardware tinkering! Good luck getting OS X on these old Macs folks, I salute you all!
Well after a few more tries, I finally got 10.5.8 up and running on my B&W.
I went from my parents' iMac G5 to my hard drive connected via an ATA to FireWire controller:
freshly erased hard drive partition → fresh install from 10.5 retail dvd → apply 10.5.8 combo install → added back kexts → put hard drive back in B&W
(always logged in as root to copy kexts, and run batchmod)
kext problems resolved from earlier:
- of all the replacement kexts I had saved off, the culprit was IOGraphicsFamily. Not sure what happened to it along the way, but I extracted a fresh copy of it from WWDC using Pacifist, and that did the trick.
- I used a Tiger version of IONDRVSupport.
- I had to remove a sub-kext from IOSerialFamily because I kept getting a weird problem with 'Apple SCC Serial'. I wondered if it had anything to do with the fact that I still have the Apple Internal Modem in the B&W, but in any case, removing the SCC sub-kext resolved the issue.
I still have a couple minor issues to work out. For some reason X11 doesn't launch. Also, I get a kernel panic if I go to System Profiler and click on the Graphics/Display tab. I assume it probably has something to with IOGraphicsFamily.
The last thing I want to do to this ol' B&W is find a PCI GeForce 6200 to put in it. I have an FX 5200 in it now, but if I can get a 6200 in it, then I will have fully maxed out every possible upgradable component.
I love the fact that since I bought it in 1999, it's still the 'everyday' computer I use at home. It's going to be strange when the day comes that I actually have to stop using it and buy a new mac.
Well after a few more tries, I finally got 10.5.8 up and running on my B&W.
I went from my parents' iMac G5 to my hard drive connected via an ATA to FireWire controller:
freshly erased hard drive partition → fresh install from 10.5 retail dvd → apply 10.5.8 combo install → added back kexts → put hard drive back in B&W
(always logged in as root to copy kexts, and run batchmod)
kext problems resolved from earlier:
- of all the replacement kexts I had saved off, the culprit was IOGraphicsFamily. Not sure what happened to it along the way, but I extracted a fresh copy of it from WWDC using Pacifist, and that did the trick.
- I used a Tiger version of IONDRVSupport.
- I had to remove a sub-kext from IOSerialFamily because I kept getting a weird problem with 'Apple SCC Serial'. I wondered if it had anything to do with the fact that I still have the Apple Internal Modem in the B&W, but in any case, removing the SCC sub-kext resolved the issue.
I still have a couple minor issues to work out. For some reason X11 doesn't launch. Also, I get a kernel panic if I go to System Profiler and click on the Graphics/Display tab. I assume it probably has something to with IOGraphicsFamily.
The last thing I want to do to this ol' B&W is find a PCI GeForce 6200 to put in it. I have an FX 5200 in it now, but if I can get a 6200 in it, then I will have fully maxed out every possible upgradable component.
I love the fact that since I bought it in 1999, it's still the 'everyday' computer I use at home. It's going to be strange when the day comes that I actually have to stop using it and buy a new mac.
Ok I know I have come late to this party (stood at doorway with bowl of cheese puffs)
I have a Sawtooth running leopard, a B&W upgraded with a sonnet G4 (Tiger) and a Yikes G4
I am trying to run leopard on the B&W & on the yikes
I popped out the HD from the sawtooth and dropped it into both machines and got pretty much the same problem (not supported machine)
Can someone PLEASE, I *sort of* follow the conversations above, however...
I dont have the WWDC 2006 (just the 2007) leopard disc. I do have full retails copies of leopard for each machine, full retail copies of Tiger ..
Have just completed upgrading 10.4.11 with retail DVD 10.5 leopard. Is there somewhere I can find the needed Kexts to attempt to get 10.5.8 working with the current hardware environment I have?
Am an ADC member but cannot find the old WWDC 2006 release.
I agree with other member posts that once success is achieved with 10.5.8 in various hardware configs a listing of kext versions, install instructions would keep this endeavor alive.
Will post my findings with my B&W G3(G4), sonnet encore G4 1ghz, sonnet ATA133, wiebetechSATA, radeon 9200 as I progress.
Any help especially with the necessary kexts is greatly appreciated.
Comments
Much like G3 support was stripped out of both the Applications and Kernel Extensions support in 10.5 there is mounting evidenence that kernel extensions alone would not re-enable PPC support.
In the latest builds many of the kernel extensions are now listed as Intel only, the Finder.app (along with many others) is also listed as only supporting 386 and x64 architectures, no ppc. This means that it would not run on PPC at all - much like people found that iTunes, etc wouldn't run on later beta builds of Leopard when installed on a G3.
I'll keep monitoring the builds and of course the final release of Snow Leopard - but expect the complete removal of PPC support, except where it props up Rosetta to run some PPC code on Intel machines.
It would be nice to see Snow Leopard on a PPC, but I'm following the keynote at WWDC right now, and Phil says "All the major system apps run in 64-bit mode in Snow Leopard." So I guess that means it really is a no-go for PPC's.
I've found that on the Pismo if the battery is placed in the right hand bay it is recognised and the time-facility works automatically (unlike in Tiger, where it had to be re-added by using an older version of the battery driver).
I'd be really grateful if you could forward me the kext you wrote for the left hand bay battery, to enable it to be recognised.
I've sent you a PM with my e-mail address.
Thanks,
James.
I'll be trying what I can with the limited time I have...but James I might have to rely on your expertise to get this one working!
Using the instructions found here:
http://www.ihackintosh.com/2009/03/h...-leopard-1055/
I was able to install Safari 4.0.3 on my 10.5.5 B&W G4.
The only change to the instructions I had to modify was that everywhere the article mentions 10.5.6, replace it with 10.5.7 instead, since the latest version of Safari 4 will be looking for that.
Top Sites work and I have no issues to report so far. The main reason I did this is because I installed iTunes 9 and clicked on the App Store and it said it needed Safari 4.0.3 in order to work.
I'd still like to get this thing all the way up to full Leopard 10.5.8, but I haven't been able to spend any time on experimenting with that yet. For now, I am content down here at 10.5.5.
once again I gave Leopard a try on the G4 upgraded PowerBook Wallstreet.
I was able to install 10.5.8 but after installing it I had to install *all* the kexts again that are needed to run our old machines and that aren't there anymore within a Leopard installation. It seems that the 10.5.8 installed wants to clean the installed kexts.
Also I was able to use the standard IOGraphicsFamily.kext that ships with 10.5.x using versions of AppleGossamerPE.kext and AppleGracklePCI,kext that I had updated and modified to match more the behaviour of their newer equivalents AppleMacRISC2PE.kext and AppleMacRiscPCI.kext.
Additionally I recompiled the PMUBatteryHelper.kext to now work on Leopard. That one corrects the issue that the left hand battery on PowerBooks that have two media bays (Wallstreet, Lombard, Pismo) isn't recognized.
In order to get the PCCard driver to work I also had to modify IOPCIFamily.kext. This is of use on Lombard and Wallstreet machines only.
Should there be any interest in those kexts please send me a message!
Sadly I still get corruption and hangups when I use a second RAM module. Using only one (that means 256 MB) everything is working fine. I'll also update the AppleHeathrow.kext and possibly also HeathrowATA.kext soon in a try to fix that problem. In case the reason isn't in all those kexts it would probably be in the kernel itself where it would be horrible to track down...
However despite of the fact that I have a maximum amount of RAM of just 256 MB 10.5.8 is running very well and in my opinion *much* faster than bare 10.5.
P.S: I still have got the L2-Cache enabling BootX (Mac OS X boot loader) - the only way I know of having 10.5 recognize that there really is L2 cache built-in.
Just wanted to post that I was able to get OS X 10.5.8 running on my B&W G3 with a 500 MHz G4 upgrade, pretty much following James' posted method.
Unfortunately, the on-board USB, Firewire, and networking are still not working. However, all my PCI cards work, including a Sonnet ATA/133, combo USB 2.0/Firewire, and Radeon 7000. I have a gigabit Ethernet PCI card being shipped to me, so the on-board troubles MAY be moot, if I can get that running.
One problem I'm having is that my retail copy of Leopard is version 10.5.6, so I can't get the kexts for anything lower than that. I don't own the WWDC 2006 version. If anyone has gotten Leopard 10.5.8 to work on a B&W (with on-board ports working), can you send me the kexts that you used?
To get the thing to boot, I had to replace "IONDRVSupport.kext" with the version from 10.4.11. It seems stable - running two days with no glitches - but I'd be interested in getting a more up-to-date copy of this, if possible.
Also, I noticed in James' article, he mentions replacing "IOUSBFamily.kext" with the 2006 version, but that kext isn't available for download on that page. If someone could send me that, it would be excellent.
I've really appreciated all the post and information that people have posted. It's been very helpful, and I'm pretty excited that this old computer is almost to the point where it's completely usable!
Take it easy,
Rick
I did have to temporarily get the on-board Ethernet working, because Time Machine was complaining that it couldn't find the built-in networking. So I installed the 10.4.11 versions of IONetworkingFamily and AppleMaceEthernet and rebooted. Built-in Ethernet came on, I configured Time Machine, then switched back to the new versions of those kexts and back to the gigabit card. Everything seems to be running fine, now, but I'll still need to do some more testing.
So, it seems that the only kexts that I had to completely replace from 10.5.8 were IOGraphicsFamily and IONDRVSupport. I'm still using the 10.4.11 version of IONDRVSupport, so if someone could send me a more up-to-date 10.5 version that works on the B&W, that would be awesome.
Thanks!
Rick
send a me private message containing your email address so that I can send you the updated platform drivers. They should work on the B&W as well.
Tobias
After re-compiling your PMUBatteryHelper.kext for 10.5 (on 10.5.8 using xcode 3.1.4), and performing a reset of the PMU via the reset button, the left hand battery on the Pismo is now recognised.
Thanks very much for this fix - much appreciated.
James.
If just the left hand battery is inserted the level of the battery icon never changes from full. Apple System Profiler and other battery monitoring software (Coconut battery http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/) doesn't recognise it properly.
However, all the details start working when a battery is inserted into the (already supported) right hand battery bay.
The only battery monitor I know that works despite this is slimbattery monitor (http://www.orange-carb.org/SBM/)
I'm going to have a look at which functions the battery monitors access to get the battery stats - as one method works - but the 'official' apple method is still problematic.
Do you know if this is the case on your Wallstreet too? Anyone else have some Pismo experiences to share?
James.
I have tried a couple different steps:
1) take current system running 10.5.5 → apply 10.5.8 combo install → add back kexts → put hard drive back in B&W
(failed)
2) take a 10.4.11 system → archive & install from 10.5 retail dvd → apply 10.5.8 combo install → add back kexts → put hard drive back in B&W
(failed)
maybe the issue is in which kexts i am adding back. i was pretty sure i was adding back all the appropriate versions, but maybe i missed something.
here is what i am adding back:
IOGraphicsFamily - 1.5
AppleGossamerPE - 2.0.3
AppleGracklePCI - 1.2
AppleHeathrow - 1.2.3
CMD646ATA - 1.0.7
HeathrowATA - 1.0.8f1
AppleCuda - 1.1.0
IONDRVSupport - 1.4.2
would you guys (james/tobias/rick) mind checking against what you have that is working for you and let me know if i need to change something?
thanks!
I went from my parents' iMac G5 to my hard drive connected via an ATA to FireWire controller:
freshly erased hard drive partition → fresh install from 10.5 retail dvd → apply 10.5.8 combo install → added back kexts → put hard drive back in B&W
(always logged in as root to copy kexts, and run batchmod)
kext problems resolved from earlier:
- of all the replacement kexts I had saved off, the culprit was IOGraphicsFamily. Not sure what happened to it along the way, but I extracted a fresh copy of it from WWDC using Pacifist, and that did the trick.
- I used a Tiger version of IONDRVSupport.
- I had to remove a sub-kext from IOSerialFamily because I kept getting a weird problem with 'Apple SCC Serial'. I wondered if it had anything to do with the fact that I still have the Apple Internal Modem in the B&W, but in any case, removing the SCC sub-kext resolved the issue.
I still have a couple minor issues to work out. For some reason X11 doesn't launch. Also, I get a kernel panic if I go to System Profiler and click on the Graphics/Display tab. I assume it probably has something to with IOGraphicsFamily.
My final list of replacement kexts was:
IOGraphicsFamily (from WWDC)
AppleGossamerPE
AppleGracklePCI
AppleHeathrow
CMD646ATA
HeathrowATA
AppleCuda
IONDRVSupport (from Tiger)
IOSerialFamily (with SCC sub-kext removed)
IONetworkingFamily (with B&W compatible sub-kexts added)
IOUSBFamily (with B&W compatible sub-kexts added)
IOFireWireFamily (with B&W compatible sub-kexts added)
The last thing I want to do to this ol' B&W is find a PCI GeForce 6200 to put in it. I have an FX 5200 in it now, but if I can get a 6200 in it, then I will have fully maxed out every possible upgradable component.
I love the fact that since I bought it in 1999, it's still the 'everyday' computer I use at home. It's going to be strange when the day comes that I actually have to stop using it and buy a new mac.
Well after a few more tries, I finally got 10.5.8 up and running on my B&W.
I went from my parents' iMac G5 to my hard drive connected via an ATA to FireWire controller:
freshly erased hard drive partition → fresh install from 10.5 retail dvd → apply 10.5.8 combo install → added back kexts → put hard drive back in B&W
(always logged in as root to copy kexts, and run batchmod)
kext problems resolved from earlier:
- of all the replacement kexts I had saved off, the culprit was IOGraphicsFamily. Not sure what happened to it along the way, but I extracted a fresh copy of it from WWDC using Pacifist, and that did the trick.
- I used a Tiger version of IONDRVSupport.
- I had to remove a sub-kext from IOSerialFamily because I kept getting a weird problem with 'Apple SCC Serial'. I wondered if it had anything to do with the fact that I still have the Apple Internal Modem in the B&W, but in any case, removing the SCC sub-kext resolved the issue.
I still have a couple minor issues to work out. For some reason X11 doesn't launch. Also, I get a kernel panic if I go to System Profiler and click on the Graphics/Display tab. I assume it probably has something to with IOGraphicsFamily.
My final list of replacement kexts was:
IOGraphicsFamily (from WWDC)
AppleGossamerPE
AppleGracklePCI
AppleHeathrow
CMD646ATA
HeathrowATA
AppleCuda
IONDRVSupport (from Tiger)
IOSerialFamily (with SCC sub-kext removed)
IONetworkingFamily (with B&W compatible sub-kexts added)
IOUSBFamily (with B&W compatible sub-kexts added)
IOFireWireFamily (with B&W compatible sub-kexts added)
The last thing I want to do to this ol' B&W is find a PCI GeForce 6200 to put in it. I have an FX 5200 in it now, but if I can get a 6200 in it, then I will have fully maxed out every possible upgradable component.
I love the fact that since I bought it in 1999, it's still the 'everyday' computer I use at home. It's going to be strange when the day comes that I actually have to stop using it and buy a new mac.
Ok I know I have come late to this party (stood at doorway with bowl of cheese puffs)
I have a Sawtooth running leopard, a B&W upgraded with a sonnet G4 (Tiger) and a Yikes G4
I am trying to run leopard on the B&W & on the yikes
I popped out the HD from the sawtooth and dropped it into both machines and got pretty much the same problem (not supported machine)
Can someone PLEASE, I *sort of* follow the conversations above, however...
I dont have the WWDC 2006 (just the 2007) leopard disc. I do have full retails copies of leopard for each machine, full retail copies of Tiger ..
Thanks
Nic
Ok I know I have come late to this party (stood at doorway with bowl of cheese puffs)
I have a Sawtooth running leopard, a B&W upgraded with a sonnet G4 (Tiger) and a Yikes G4
I am trying to run leopard on the B&W & on the yikes
I popped out the HD from the sawtooth and dropped it into both machines and got pretty much the same problem (not supported machine)
Can someone PLEASE, I *sort of* follow the conversations above, however...
I dont have the WWDC 2006 (just the 2007) leopard disc. I do have full retails copies of leopard for each machine, full retail copies of Tiger ..
Thanks
Nic
Can anyone help?... Please
Am an ADC member but cannot find the old WWDC 2006 release.
I agree with other member posts that once success is achieved with 10.5.8 in various hardware configs a listing of kext versions, install instructions would keep this endeavor alive.
Will post my findings with my B&W G3(G4), sonnet encore G4 1ghz, sonnet ATA133, wiebetechSATA, radeon 9200 as I progress.
Any help especially with the necessary kexts is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.