Microsoft plans anti-Apple marketing blitz for Vista

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  • Reply 61 of 104
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    I am not one to quote the bible much, but I do remember one little thing from the forced childhood indoctrination...er Sunday school......something about not pointing out the twig in your brothers eye when there is a plank in yours...



    10.5 was SO perfect, why did apple bother with .1, .2, and .3, not to mebtion all of the QT and Safari updates since GM..



    And there's the hidden influence that has Men confused ever since. What does the plank in his eye have to do with the twig in my eye?



    I give Apple plenty of lip, and praise, when I see fit. Just search. I also give MS credit where it deserves to get credit for. I think they make the best mouse on the planet. It's true.
  • Reply 62 of 104
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    As a Windows Sys admin, and a vista user at work, In a dev shop, I find that the negitive attitudes about vista are from people who fall into one of three camps



    1 (most common) haven't touched vista and dont plan to because it is "cool" to hate it, hel, the idiot box...er...TV tells them to... or they read some negitive blog posts from Jan 2007



    2: (less common) played with Vista for about 10 minutes and gave up..mostly because of crapware that was preloaded that wasnt even VISTA CAPABLE AND CRASHED ON LAUNCH (see some gayway laptops)



    3: (rare) bad driver or conflict..these have been resolved in many cases.



    4: Someone tried to upgrade an existing machine from XP



    I think Vista with SP1 is a really solid choice, security wise it is leaps and bounds bove XP...and for Christ sake, XP is 8 years old! could you imagine a clammoring for NT4 two years after XP shipped?



    The problem is that microsoft let XP get too damned entrenched. and now we are stuck supporting this archaic OS, just bolting on moddern technologies as we go in a cludgy way...



    Raise your hand if you had these in 2000, when XP RCs went feature complete



    Digial camera RAW

    an MP3 player

    web based email services, and cloud services in general like Googledocs or dotmac

    a smartphone capable of syncing with your desktop PIM

    online media sales...back then we all used Napster





    Now, look at Apple circa 2000, OSX Public Preview, they evolved it, and built osx up to what it is slowly over time...Windowswent from a 2001 model to a 2007 model with no middle ground...



    and truth be told, UAC isnt annoying when configured properly, and it has saved my arse once or twice...



    Vista isnt bad, it is just the inertia of negativism.



    I speak from experiance. I would put money on the table that i have used Vista more than all other posters to this thread combined.





    All that said, you can pry my leopard based macbook from my cold dead hands.



    There FTFY.
  • Reply 63 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by suhail View Post


    I am personally not very happy with OSX Leopard or OSX Leopard Server nor their recent bug-ridden updates, nor the fact that their next major bug release is 11 months from now. Windows XP has some features that the Mac should've had for years, such as in a two monitor setup, not having to run your mouse back to your first monitor to access your drop-down menus.



    So, were you one of those that clamored for years for the right click? Now that you have it you aren't using it? How about the keyboard shortcuts? I've got 3 monitors and find I don't have to use the pull down menus hardly at all. At least on the Mac if you want to use more than one monitor all you have to do is plug it in....not hunt through 3 different control panels to get it to work right.
  • Reply 64 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    I am not one to quote the bible much, but I do remember one little thing from the forced childhood indoctrination...er Sunday school......something about not pointing out the twig in your brothers eye when there is a plank in yours...





    10.5 was SO perfect, why did apple bother with .1, .2, and .3, not to mebtion all of the QT and Safari updates since GM..



    Mostly for added hardware support for new peripherals..



    Microsoft has released 25 updates since XP SP3 (Which will break any HP/Compaq computer with an AMD processor unless you patch it before installing it)



    And at least 3 dozen updates for Windows Vista SP1 (all bug fixes)



    Granted, I will be the first to admit that OS X isn't perfect, there are a few annoying bugs in Leopard Server (but I've worked around all of them) It is just you can't argue with the fact for every bug you may find in OS X, you will find at least a dozen in Windows.
  • Reply 65 of 104
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    "They tell us it's the iWay or the highway. We think that's a sad message," he says. "Software out there is made to be compatible with your whole life."



    I'm a Mac user in a Windows world & I don't know what this joker is talking about. The inroads Apple has taken to make OS X (Desktop & Server) work with Active Directory & exchange are amazing & just work. Everything on my Mac just works & Open Directory plays nice right along side Active Directory.



    Only thing that doesn't play nice is Microsoft Office 2008. Funny that the least Microsoft compatible (as far as what it targets) application on my Mac is one made by Microsoft themselves! Entourage sucks!!!!!!!!



    Man I can't wait for Snow Leopard.
  • Reply 66 of 104
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nagromme View Post


    Might want more RAM. My MacBook Air (HD model) with ~1500 photos launched iPhoto in about 1 second. I'm sure 8000 would be slower, but RAM does help beachballs.



    I LOVE the new iPhoto.



    Also, it only takes about 1% of my CPU power to leave it running hidden--might be an option for you if you need it often and don't like the startup delay you've seen.



    In any case, we Mac users have it good when what WE have to complain about is how slow 8000 photos load off a laptop drive



    It kills me when people complain about beach balls, our slowest Macs where I work run faster than our brand new Dells.



    Most of the time a beach ball is a result of poor system maintenance, all systems need a little tender loving care to keep running smooth.
  • Reply 67 of 104
    allblueallblue Posts: 393member
    Ah that's more like it! A good old-fashioned AI thread that is one unrequited Microsoft bash! It's been a hoot folks! Fantastic link Nagromme, thanks for that! While perusing YT I think I may have found a way to save Redmond a few hundred million dollars - just do the ads in-house!



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHN...eature=related
  • Reply 68 of 104
    aheneenaheneen Posts: 75member
    ...the new Vista ad is...



    "Hello I'm Vista" (young businessman with shades on his forehead with some slim, little Vaio under his arm)

    "...and I'm Leopard" (nerd with bulky 5-year-old videocamera)

    "What cha got there Leopard?"

    "Oh. This is my videocamera and this [pulling a large 17in-MBP out of backpack] is where I edit all my video"

    "Really. What kind of games do you have?"

    "Games...well I've got this really neat chess game!"

    "Really? So you don't like to have fun when the boss isn't arund?"

    "Well, my videos take lots of time to put together..."

    "Have you heard of a life?"

    "Well, I love my computer...so I am using it all the time."

    "So you play with videos all day on your computer...a little machine for a small amount of people with no life?"

    "Well...what about you Vista...it's not like people are crazy for you either!"

    "Well I'm doing very well now...just had a little system error...and hey...shit happens"



    [narrator's voice]

    "Vista...available in Basic, Home Premium, Business, and Ultimate is here and better than ever! It's got lots of innovative new features and a revolutionary new interface that will leave you amazed! Introducing...the new and improved Vista...



    Vista...Shit Happens"



    Ok, so I tried to throw in a few similarities to the Mac-PC ads (nerdy video editor with no life rather than boring businessman with no life) and play on the stereotype that Macs are for video, photo, and other artistic users. And of course I had to try to attack Leopard because....well...it wouldn't be a faux MS ad if I didn't.



    Vista...Shit Happens
  • Reply 69 of 104
    I have several friends who are die-hard Windows power users who will never use a Mac, at least right now, but refuse to use Vista unless they have to. They warned me not to load Vista on my one remaining Windows machine...and I didn't...I bought another Mac.

    Windows fanatics despise Vista, and either tweak it because they're tech geeks, retro back to XP, or go Linux.

    Microsoft really does not understand what they did with Vista. I remember when XP came out. There was not near the griping that occurred with Vista. Yes, XP had some issues, but no one I knew felt like retrograding their operating system. I used Win 3.1, 95, NT, XP and 2000 and never thought about going backwards... However, once I was reacquainted with the Mac and 10.3, I was out of Windows.

    I still deal with XP as an education tech guy at the school I teach, and do not want our teachers to move up to Vista unless all the programs are new.

    Come off it Microsoft, you screwed up the program, and Mac was smart to step on your throat. Gates is out of there and really could care less.
  • Reply 70 of 104
    admactaniumadmactanium Posts: 812member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ehych View Post


    Actually it had been announced in March that they approached the Crispin Porter + Bogusky advertising firm for a new campaign.



    You can see the articles here:

    http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/...-hes-a-pc.html



    http://mintywhite.com/tech/es/vista/...onse-to-apple/



    It may be too late for Microsoft to renew it's image, but at least they're going to try and do something different (in the advertising area)



    it's an interesting choice. crispin porter + bogusky is a very good ad agency. i'll be interested to see what they do. especially since i created 3 major campaigns for microsoft myself. haha.
  • Reply 71 of 104
    wheelhotwheelhot Posts: 465member
    I know! Microsoft want to bring the Macintosh experience to their OS!. Okay I need people to help me compile this list.

    1. First was Vista.

    - Gadgets as opposed to Widgets.

    - Flip3D as opposed to Expose.

    - Similar interface to the OS X Finder. (more like a hybrid between OSX and Vista, they did quite well in this

    department except the speed).

    2. Zune.

    - MS wants to kill off iPod!!!

    3. ZunePhone.

    - There are rumors around that MS is developing their own phone to compete with the iPhone (again?).

    4. MS Store

    - Hmm, so they are going to have some genius bar to answer vista incompatibilities and have boxes of

    Windows Vista laying around...oh dont forget boxes of Office, .NET and some other 3rd party software,

    and of course XBox 360 but honestly, I can't imaging people coming in just to buy Windows Vista cause

    it comes with every new PC now and people can't upgrade to Vista cause their 3-5 years old PC is not

    compatible.

    - Oooh and this is like another Apple Store rip of by Microsoft......again.

    5. Ads.

    - And finally we have ads, to say..???? (see my 1st page post).



    Oh well MS seems to be working hard, let see some more 'bright' ideas from them .

    Its fun, MS is becoming as funny as Balmer is, way to go!
  • Reply 72 of 104
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    As a Windows Sys admin, and a vista user at work, In a dev shop, I find that the negitive attitudes about vista are from people who fall into one of three camps



    I have zero crapware, good drivers, and I have used Vista at home for about 1-2 months now. So no, it's not just those three "camps" that have a negative opinion of it.



    I'm not convinced by Vista. The UI is crappy as always. There's nothing fundamentally different about the interaction compared to W2K or XP - nothing like Expose, for instance. I can't choose to have a single system-wide key layout, it's per-window instead. There are just a couple keybind choices for changing layouts. There's no general facility for keybinding. (These are really big deals for me personally.) There's no choice to alter modifier keys like on OS X. Scroll wheel doesn't work on mouseover. Explorer is slow and fidgety to manipulate, and fat. Drag and drop remains clunky and limited. They have yet to nail localization and ship just one disc. Not sure if they allow different languages for different users of the same machine.



    The OS does not come with many things that are considered barebones minimum tools on every other operating system today. It has a bad shell, no SSH client, no SSH server, no dev tools, not even a text editor that is any good. Now that's just stupid. The terminal still defaults to the godawful font I could swear I saw first time in some version of DOS.



    And the driver problems are not some myth or isolated incident. The DRM requirements make driver design permanently more difficult, error prone and low performance than they used to be. The cost is passed onto the customer. That most customers do not personally see a problem doesn't mean it is not hurting them. We saw a demonstration of how much difficulty they actually add when both ATi and nVidia were many months late in delivering decent Vista drivers. If either of them could have accomplished that earlier, they surely would, considering how big of a competetive advantage it would have been against the other.



    I'm not saying Vista is worse than XP, but there's *plenty* to not like about it.
  • Reply 73 of 104
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gon View Post


    I have zero crapware, good drivers, and I have used Vista at home for about 1-2 months now. So no, it's not just those three "camps" that have a negative opinion of it.



    I'm not convinced by Vista. The UI is crappy as always. There's nothing fundamentally different about the interaction compared to W2K or XP - nothing like Expose, for instance. I can't choose to have a single system-wide key layout, it's per-window instead. There are just a couple keybind choices for changing layouts. There's no general facility for keybinding. (These are really big deals for me personally.) There's no choice to alter modifier keys like on OS X. Scroll wheel doesn't work on mouseover. Explorer is slow and fidgety to manipulate, and fat. Drag and drop remains clunky and limited. They have yet to nail localization and ship just one disc. Not sure if they allow different languages for different users of the same machine.



    The OS does not come with many things that are considered barebones minimum tools on every other operating system today. It has a bad shell, no SSH client, no SSH server, no dev tools, not even a text editor that is any good. Now that's just stupid. The terminal still defaults to the godawful font I could swear I saw first time in some version of DOS.



    And the driver problems are not some myth or isolated incident. The DRM requirements make driver design permanently more difficult, error prone and low performance than they used to be. The cost is passed onto the customer. That most customers do not personally see a problem doesn't mean it is not hurting them. We saw a demonstration of how much difficulty they actually add when both ATi and nVidia were many months late in delivering decent Vista drivers. If either of them could have accomplished that earlier, they surely would, considering how big of a competetive advantage it would have been against the other.



    I'm not saying Vista is worse than XP, but there's *plenty* to not like about it.



    Visual Studio Express is a free version of the IDE..and it works, but really, if you are doing development to make money, you will have MSDN anyhow so you will be default have the best version of VS.net and all related tools dor other related technology like silver light



    Powershell is comparable to BaSH



    I do agree that SSH is lacking, but the default recomended remote administration method is remote desktop connection



    As to video drivers, I agree that Nvidia is supremely incompetent, cant speak to ATI, we are a quadro fx shop, and the vista 4500 driver circa june 2008 is still shit next to xp.
  • Reply 74 of 104
    jeffharrisjeffharris Posts: 773member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by suhail View Post


    features that the Mac should've had for years, such as in a two monitor setup, not having to run your mouse back to your first monitor to access your drop-down menus.



    The best navigational solution for dual monitors?

    Get a trackball!



    http://us.kensington.com/html/2200.html
  • Reply 75 of 104
    awmawmawmawm Posts: 67member
    I have been using XP and VISTA for years (as well as their previous versions from day one of "Microsoft Windows". I always had a problem here and there but with VISTA, it got worse. I was forced to VISTA when I purchased a new notebook a year ago. Besides Microsoft allowing vendors (my notebook is from Sony) to install bloatware that takes hours to deinstall, I have been having constant problems, i.e. problems that suddenly stop, whole workspace that freezes, incorrect VISTA reboot after updates were automatically installed, etc. But the worst part is that VISTA has been slower than XP even though I bought the most powerful version of the notebook with 2GB RAM and a separate Nvidia graphics processor. Rebooting my machine takes 5 minutes+, the sleep function does work one day but not another (and even when it works, it takes at least 30 seconds until I can work but often more than a minute). IE7 regularly stops working without any other applications open. And while not directly a VISTA issue, MS Outlook PST files are a complete nightmare. Once you have some errors in your database, good luck with PST repair. My PST file has been slightly corrupt for years and PST repair tool cannot fix it.

    In my lifetime, I have wasted weeks trying to fix my "Microsoft Windows" computers and I continue to waste my time to deal with VISTA problems. I have made the decision to jump ship once the new MacBook Pro is out. After 15 years+ of "Microsoft Windows"...
  • Reply 76 of 104
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by physguy View Post


    WTF does that mean?



    Life is not just taking pictures and making home movies unless you make seven digits. Apple is great at fun and artsy, but they don't quite get the mundane but important tasks a computer does as well. How about using some of that iWork technology to make a new class of user friendly financial apps. A lot of us out there don't have access to the seemingly limitless money supply called out parents wallets anymore, but don't quite make enough to afford an accountant. How about putting some effort into making the Mac as game developer friendly as the iPhone. How about finally bridging the one area that windows is currently superior the Mac, PVR. No, it won't take sales away from iTunes. What it will do though, is give me a reason to retire the VCR and buy an AppleTV.
  • Reply 77 of 104
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    Apple is great at fun and artsy, but they don't quite get the mundane but important tasks a computer does as well. How about using some of that iWork technology to make a new class of user friendly financial apps.



    A whole class of apps? Why not just one app?
  • Reply 78 of 104
    An OS that has a progress bar to load the Control Panel even after a fresh install is a failure.



    That is Windows Vista. The UI feels like a vomit of inconsistent ideas put together in a rush.
  • Reply 79 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I really don't have a whole lot of sympathy. They had five years to get Vista right, a year long beta cycle, offered in a confusing and unnecessary variety of versions, AND they gave Intel an undeserved "pass" in saying certain computer chipsets were Vista ready when they aren't. Vista's poor reputation may be a bit of a stretch, but it really doesn't have much of a value proposition to give users other than it's included with a new computer. Users aren't able to carry foward drivers for peripherals designed in the XP era either, meaning that the user might have to replace not only the computer but also several things that might be attached to it, like printers and scanners.



    I have to agree -- I'm surprised at the number of negative impressions in conversations regarding Vista. Whether the perception is fair or not, in my opinion Microsoft has to accept a large part of that blame. Multiple versions of the OS, and 2-tiered HW compatibility is just plain dumb and confusing.



    As much as I think most Microsoft Office products are pretty good for the mundane though important work of getting through the work day, the idea that Microsoft is going to put together a 'cool' campaign to counter 'Get a Mac' stretches the imagination -- cooler than Oracle or SAP marketing maybe ;-) Microsoft marketing often comes across a bit forced and more than a little stuffy. Good luck to them -- they'll need it.



    (Disclaimer: I used to work for Apple in the cluster-f*** Sculley-Spindler-Amelio days. I no longer own a Mac, and now have 3 Windows PCs (XP) in my home, 2 game consoles, and an iPhone ;-)
  • Reply 80 of 104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Right_said_fred View Post


    MS best bet would be to show a video of loading a decent size excel document (with charts) in MS-office (on vista or xp) - (preferably emulated with VM-fusion ) and comparing it side by side with office 2008 latest on a macbook pro.

    The Emulated version is so much faster (actions take a second or so) whereas the mac-office2008 takes tens of seconds to do many of the same actions. I think most people would shudder at the time it takes on a mac. Of course office 2008-mac is an MS product, but thay could utilize duct-tape over the name on the box......

    I love macbook pro and apple Leopard - but office on the mac is awful awful awful.

    If ever I get time, I wil do a youtube side by side



    I agree, MS Office 2008 on a Mac is very slow. I somehow don't think it's the fault of the Mac, however. I run NeoOffice (which is free) on my MacBook Pro and it is very fast. 2008 is kludgy. I think part of the problem is that Microsoft has no real interest in writing good software for the Mac. The biggest problem overall(with Office for the Mac and with Vista) is that Microsoft is now so big, with such a clout in the marketplace, that they don't really have to put out really good software - companies and people will buy it anyway because they have no choice. There was a time in the past where Microsoft was a smaller company and was more concerned with Quality Control but they are now so large they seem to have forgotten this.



    I think if Microsoft wants to get ahead of the game, they need to stop buying up companies to get their technology and adapting it to Microsoft's needs; instead, they need to invest heavily into R&D and create their own innovations. I also think Microsoft keeps trying to get it's hand into too many cookiejars - trying to go headon against Google and the iPod seems like corporate suicide to me. If Microsoft started coming up with new products that wowed everyone, instead of spending millions on marketing what seem like bad copies of existing products, we would all start buying more Microsoft stuff.
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