<Update: AT&T clearly does not have its act together when it comes to this offering and has for fourth time changed its mind. Around...>
once again, att aka dark star, once again proves that they are totally clueless what they are actually doing. if it was not for their semi-monopoly and cozy relationship with NSA and CIA they would have gone under a long time ago.
<Update: AT&T clearly does not have its act together when it comes to this offering and has for fourth time changed its mind. Around...>
once again, att aka dark star, once again proves that they are totally clueless what they are actually doing. if it was not for their semi-monopoly and cozy relationship with NSA and CIA they would have gone under a long time ago.
Arguably the original AT&T no longer exists...it was purchased by SBC...one of the original baby bells (RBOCs) that bought out three more baby bells (Pacific Telesis, Ameritech and Bell South).
SBC aka the new AT&T, Incorporated now controls 11 of 22 of the original Bell Operating Companies that was the original Darkstar AT&T Corporation.
Verizon and Quest are the only other two RBOCs to survive.
But hating on Southwestern Bell is not nearly as amusing as hating on AT&T.
AT&T has taken this down and called it another error. They need to make up their minds.
I don't understand this either. It seems like it is as if they forgot to get everyone to sign off on it before promoting it, and they have someone heading up this project that has a habit of forgetting to do this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey
WiFi is faster...
Not hugely faster than 3G mode, though as noted, it is far better for power consumption than even EDGE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
Sounds like an AT&T ploy to get you use to it/sell more contracts and then start charging for it. Who are we kidding here?
Would that succeed in getting people to pay? Even with higher power consumption, I'd much rather use the unlimited 3G/EDGE that I'm already paying for rather than pay even more for hotspot access. For the ten extra seconds on the demo page, I'd rather not spend the extra money. As it is, I wonder if hotspot access is cheaper for them to provide than cellular data.
It also uses considerably less juice than EDGE or HSDPA.
I wasn't aware of this, but 'm glad to hear it. I'm going to have to assume that while UMTS/HSPA and 802.11 chipsets probably require similar amounts of energy to encode/decode data, the ~1900mhz UMTS signal has a much larger distance to travel than the ~2400mhz WiFi signal. It will be interesting to see how 4G/LTE will affect battery life in future iPhones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
You are always so negative. It financially behooves AT&T to get as many iPhone data users off the cell towers and onto WiFi hotspots.
Precisely. People shouldn't see this as some great altruism on AT&T's behalf. It probably helps reduce peak load to towers in popular areas. Much cheaper than upgrading tower capacity --- just offload people onto local WLANs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hledgard
I would like to get an iPhone WITHOUT the data plan, especially if it will work with wireless hotspots. Is that possible?
You mean "work with wireless hotspots" as in FREE, right? No way AT&T would give you free WiFi access at their hotspot locations without buying a data plan. However, if you have home AT&T DSL, you could get on for free.
An a related note, anyone know if you can sign up for iPhone 3G and then remove the data package after the first month like the original iphone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I don't understand this either. It seems like it is as if they forgot to get everyone to sign off on it before promoting it, and they have someone heading up this project that has a habit of forgetting to do this.
Would that succeed in getting people to pay? Even with higher power consumption, I'd much rather use the unlimited 3G/EDGE that I'm already paying for rather than pay even more for hotspot access. For the ten extra seconds on the demo page, I'd rather not spend the extra money. As it is, I wonder if hotspot access is cheaper for them to provide than cellular data.
Yeah, someone is really screwing this up bad. I mean for god sakes, once or MAYBE even twice is understandable, but 3-5 times???
And I agree -- no way would they charge for WiFi access (for the iPhone) when they are already giving you unlimited 3G data. It most likely actually is cheaper for them to do so to reduce tower load.
Let's call them for what they are: A very disorganized, inept company with a bunch of buffoons at the top--and bottom--and everywhere in between.
You don't see other companies--namely, Apple--making these mistakes.
"Sorry, we prematurely announced the iTablet. A janitor at one of our Apple Stores is to blame," said an indignant Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO.
Calling AT&T right now to cancel my service. Written words on a forum don't do anything if it's not followed by an equal action.
Do the same if you think they suck so bad, instead of just displaying your ability to spit diatribe and "argue on the Internet."
I agree, but I also believe a lot of it has to do with the fact that the current "AT&T" is mish-mashed hodgepodge of random elements from a dozen earlier companies all held together with duck tape. Unfortunately, all the "bells" have almost re-combined back into the monopoly that was broken up decades ago! With all the acquisitions and mergers that make up today's AT&T, I'm sure the internal environment and political atmosphere is a mess, not to mention all the technical divisions and logistics.
I wasn't aware of this, but 'm glad to hear it. I'm going to have to assume that while UMTS/HSPA and 802.11 chipsets probably require similar amounts of energy to encode/decode data, the ~1900mhz UMTS signal has a much larger distance to travel than the ~2400mhz WiFi signal. It will be interesting to see how 4G/LTE will affect battery life in future iPhones.
The chip is much smaller and more energy efficient. I presume it's also cheaper, not even including the Qualcomm licensing fees.
Here are some stats from AnandTech from the the original iPhone the new iPhone. This time he does a very extensive technical review. I'm surprised someone of your technical background isn't already reading his site. a lot of it is about graphics/gaming; something I have no no knowledge or interest in, but there is plenty of other stuff. He's also getting more and more despondency from his readers as he has moved to Mac a few years ago.
On the wireless hotspots, if I get an iPhone 3G and use it for a phone without the data plan, can I walk into Starbucks or Panera and use the Internet?
You are always so negative. It financially behooves AT&T to get as many iPhone data users off the cell towers and onto WiFi hotspots.
Let me get this right- You state that you're paying for use of the cell tower and AT&T wants you off it and you don't mind.- I question that policy and that makes me negative?
Sorry but I think that kind of reasoning defines you as a reckless spender.
Let me get this right- You state that you're paying for use of the cell tower and AT&T wants you off it and you don't mind.- I question that policy and that makes me negative?
Sorry but I think that kind of reasoning defines you as a reckless spender.
I don't think you have it right. Solipsism wasn't suggesting that the users pay money for the WiFi, but rather, that it would be in AT&T's best interest to offer the free hotspot access to their mobile phone subscribers.
Let me get this right- You state that you're paying for use of the cell tower and AT&T wants you off it and you don't mind.- I question that policy and that makes me negative?
Sorry but I think that kind of reasoning defines you as a reckless spender.
Of course they want me off of it. Companies offering a service would prefer you pay for the service and never have to use it. AAA is a prime example. The $50/year I spend more than pays for itself if I use it 3x for a tow.
I don't mind mind that AT&T wants to give me an internet access option that is as fast or faster and uses considerably less power than 3G. Do I care that it costs AT&T less money to do this? Of course not. It's a value added, a form of redundancy, and may make cell data bandwidth better for me if thre are people using their WiFi instead of their cell network. This benefits AT&T and their customers. Win/Win!
Of course they want me off of it. Companies offering a service would prefer you pay for the service and never have to use it. AAA is a prime example. The $50/year I spend more than pays for itself if I use it 3x for a tow.
I don't mind mind that AT&T wants to give me an internet access option that is as fast or faster and uses considerably less power than 3G. Do I care that it costs AT&T less money to do this? Of course not. It's a value added, a form of redundancy, and may make cell data bandwidth better for me if thre are people using their WiFi instead of their cell network. This benefits AT&T and their customers. Win/Win!
And if AT&T then decides to cease it and charge you for it then what would you do-pay more for it to conserve your battery or complain about it?
And if AT&T then decides to cease it and charge you for it then what would you do-pay more for it to conserve your battery or complain about it?
I'd I wouldn't do either. I am do not frequent areas with their WiFi hotspots enough to warrant the charge, but I wouldn't complain about it either. I'd just say that AT&T has fracked up again. While this on again off again snafu makes me think they could later decide to charge for it I am certain they would later recant that policy and give it away for free for the reasons detailed above. It's in everyone's best interest.
PS: Their current system of typing in your iPhone is a pathetic system. Any device that can spoof a mobile Safari browser can use it. If you don't have an iPhone you probably know someone with one on AT&T; just type their phone number in and your good to go.
They have a couple possibilities to prevent this from happening...
— They can use your WiFi's Mac which they record at the time of activation which is cross referenced with a DB that then allows you to log on. Of course, MAC addresses are just the SW version of the BIA so they can be spoofed, but that requires more savvy.
-and/or-
— When you input your phone number into the login screen it sends you an SMS which contains a URL or a PIN. This means that the person with the phone would have to be present or aware of what is transpiring. Again, this requires more work so less likely to be abused.
edit:
Quote:
Then it's Win/Loose
Then it's Lose/Lose. There will more users bogging down AT&T expensive network which will require more frequent bandwidth upgrades or risk upsetting customers, which is never good for business.
Nor can you buy a 3G iPhone as suggested, not without signing a 2 year contract on the spot and that contract comes with a data plan automatically. Getting an original iPhone and then hacking it would be possible, but why go through that trouble and cost to then not have a fully functional iPhone?
Went in to two separate Starbucks locations this morning. Neither let me access the WiFi. The iPhone showed the network, but I was not allowed to log on.
Comments
Push and hold the round home button and while pressing it, momentarily press the lock switch and the screen will briefly flash white.
In the camera roll will be a screen shot which gets uploaded with the rest of the pictures.
AFAIK this works on iPod touch as well.
once again, att aka dark star, once again proves that they are totally clueless what they are actually doing. if it was not for their semi-monopoly and cozy relationship with NSA and CIA they would have gone under a long time ago.
Here's how to get a screen shot on the iPhone:
Push and hold the round home button and while pressing it, momentarily press the lock switch and the screen will briefly flash white.
In the camera roll will be a screen shot which gets uploaded with the rest of the pictures.
AFAIK this works on iPod touch as well.
Cool!
WiFi is faster...
It also uses considerably less juice than EDGE or HSDPA.
Will this work for iPhones from other countries? Say I was visiting the U.S. from Canada with my iPhone....??
As of right now, you'd get the web portal on your iPhone but you'd have to have an AT&T number. Probably one tied to an iPhone.
Sounds like an AT&T ploy to get you use to it/sell more contracts and then start charging for it. Who are we kidding here?
You are always so negative. It financially behooves AT&T to get as many iPhone data users off the cell towers and onto WiFi hotspots.
<Update: AT&T clearly does not have its act together when it comes to this offering and has for fourth time changed its mind. Around...>
once again, att aka dark star, once again proves that they are totally clueless what they are actually doing. if it was not for their semi-monopoly and cozy relationship with NSA and CIA they would have gone under a long time ago.
Arguably the original AT&T no longer exists...it was purchased by SBC...one of the original baby bells (RBOCs) that bought out three more baby bells (Pacific Telesis, Ameritech and Bell South).
SBC aka the new AT&T, Incorporated now controls 11 of 22 of the original Bell Operating Companies that was the original Darkstar AT&T Corporation.
Verizon and Quest are the only other two RBOCs to survive.
But hating on Southwestern Bell is not nearly as amusing as hating on AT&T.
I would like to get an iPhone WITHOUT the data plan, especially if it will work with wireless hotspots. Is that possible?
1) Buy an original or 3G iPhone for full price, unlock it and switch your GSM SIM into it.
2) Keep your current phone and buy an iPod Touch.
Note: This will not give you FREE access to AT&T WiFi hotspots.
AT&T has taken this down and called it another error. They need to make up their minds.
I don't understand this either. It seems like it is as if they forgot to get everyone to sign off on it before promoting it, and they have someone heading up this project that has a habit of forgetting to do this.
WiFi is faster...
Not hugely faster than 3G mode, though as noted, it is far better for power consumption than even EDGE.
Sounds like an AT&T ploy to get you use to it/sell more contracts and then start charging for it. Who are we kidding here?
Would that succeed in getting people to pay? Even with higher power consumption, I'd much rather use the unlimited 3G/EDGE that I'm already paying for rather than pay even more for hotspot access. For the ten extra seconds on the demo page, I'd rather not spend the extra money. As it is, I wonder if hotspot access is cheaper for them to provide than cellular data.
You don't see other companies--namely, Apple--making these mistakes.
"Sorry, we prematurely announced the iTablet. A janitor at one of our Apple Stores is to blame," said an indignant Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO.
Calling AT&T right now to cancel my service. Written words on a forum don't do anything if it's not followed by an equal action.
Do the same if you think they suck so bad, instead of just displaying your ability to spit diatribe and "argue on the Internet."
It also uses considerably less juice than EDGE or HSDPA.
I wasn't aware of this, but 'm glad to hear it. I'm going to have to assume that while UMTS/HSPA and 802.11 chipsets probably require similar amounts of energy to encode/decode data, the ~1900mhz UMTS signal has a much larger distance to travel than the ~2400mhz WiFi signal. It will be interesting to see how 4G/LTE will affect battery life in future iPhones.
You are always so negative. It financially behooves AT&T to get as many iPhone data users off the cell towers and onto WiFi hotspots.
Precisely. People shouldn't see this as some great altruism on AT&T's behalf. It probably helps reduce peak load to towers in popular areas. Much cheaper than upgrading tower capacity --- just offload people onto local WLANs.
I would like to get an iPhone WITHOUT the data plan, especially if it will work with wireless hotspots. Is that possible?
You mean "work with wireless hotspots" as in FREE, right? No way AT&T would give you free WiFi access at their hotspot locations without buying a data plan. However, if you have home AT&T DSL, you could get on for free.
An a related note, anyone know if you can sign up for iPhone 3G and then remove the data package after the first month like the original iphone?
I don't understand this either. It seems like it is as if they forgot to get everyone to sign off on it before promoting it, and they have someone heading up this project that has a habit of forgetting to do this.
Would that succeed in getting people to pay? Even with higher power consumption, I'd much rather use the unlimited 3G/EDGE that I'm already paying for rather than pay even more for hotspot access. For the ten extra seconds on the demo page, I'd rather not spend the extra money. As it is, I wonder if hotspot access is cheaper for them to provide than cellular data.
Yeah, someone is really screwing this up bad. I mean for god sakes, once or MAYBE even twice is understandable, but 3-5 times???
And I agree -- no way would they charge for WiFi access (for the iPhone) when they are already giving you unlimited 3G data. It most likely actually is cheaper for them to do so to reduce tower load.
Let's call them for what they are: A very disorganized, inept company with a bunch of buffoons at the top--and bottom--and everywhere in between.
You don't see other companies--namely, Apple--making these mistakes.
"Sorry, we prematurely announced the iTablet. A janitor at one of our Apple Stores is to blame," said an indignant Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO.
Calling AT&T right now to cancel my service. Written words on a forum don't do anything if it's not followed by an equal action.
Do the same if you think they suck so bad, instead of just displaying your ability to spit diatribe and "argue on the Internet."
I agree, but I also believe a lot of it has to do with the fact that the current "AT&T" is mish-mashed hodgepodge of random elements from a dozen earlier companies all held together with duck tape. Unfortunately, all the "bells" have almost re-combined back into the monopoly that was broken up decades ago! With all the acquisitions and mergers that make up today's AT&T, I'm sure the internal environment and political atmosphere is a mess, not to mention all the technical divisions and logistics.
I wasn't aware of this, but 'm glad to hear it. I'm going to have to assume that while UMTS/HSPA and 802.11 chipsets probably require similar amounts of energy to encode/decode data, the ~1900mhz UMTS signal has a much larger distance to travel than the ~2400mhz WiFi signal. It will be interesting to see how 4G/LTE will affect battery life in future iPhones.
The chip is much smaller and more energy efficient. I presume it's also cheaper, not even including the Qualcomm licensing fees.
Here are some stats from AnandTech from the the original iPhone the new iPhone. This time he does a very extensive technical review. I'm surprised someone of your technical background isn't already reading his site. a lot of it is about graphics/gaming; something I have no no knowledge or interest in, but there is plenty of other stuff. He's also getting more and more despondency from his readers as he has moved to Mac a few years ago.
iPhone (left): Purple is EDGE, Green is WiFi — Blackjack (right): Red is HSDPA
What about my own wireless home network?
Even further, can I use MobileMe?
Thanks!
You are always so negative. It financially behooves AT&T to get as many iPhone data users off the cell towers and onto WiFi hotspots.
Let me get this right- You state that you're paying for use of the cell tower and AT&T wants you off it and you don't mind.- I question that policy and that makes me negative?
Sorry but I think that kind of reasoning defines you as a reckless spender.
Let me get this right- You state that you're paying for use of the cell tower and AT&T wants you off it and you don't mind.- I question that policy and that makes me negative?
Sorry but I think that kind of reasoning defines you as a reckless spender.
I don't think you have it right. Solipsism wasn't suggesting that the users pay money for the WiFi, but rather, that it would be in AT&T's best interest to offer the free hotspot access to their mobile phone subscribers.
Let me get this right- You state that you're paying for use of the cell tower and AT&T wants you off it and you don't mind.- I question that policy and that makes me negative?
Sorry but I think that kind of reasoning defines you as a reckless spender.
Of course they want me off of it. Companies offering a service would prefer you pay for the service and never have to use it. AAA is a prime example. The $50/year I spend more than pays for itself if I use it 3x for a tow.
I don't mind mind that AT&T wants to give me an internet access option that is as fast or faster and uses considerably less power than 3G. Do I care that it costs AT&T less money to do this? Of course not. It's a value added, a form of redundancy, and may make cell data bandwidth better for me if thre are people using their WiFi instead of their cell network. This benefits AT&T and their customers. Win/Win!
Of course they want me off of it. Companies offering a service would prefer you pay for the service and never have to use it. AAA is a prime example. The $50/year I spend more than pays for itself if I use it 3x for a tow.
I don't mind mind that AT&T wants to give me an internet access option that is as fast or faster and uses considerably less power than 3G. Do I care that it costs AT&T less money to do this? Of course not. It's a value added, a form of redundancy, and may make cell data bandwidth better for me if thre are people using their WiFi instead of their cell network. This benefits AT&T and their customers. Win/Win!
And if AT&T then decides to cease it and charge you for it then what would you do-pay more for it to conserve your battery or complain about it?
Then it's Win/Loose
And if AT&T then decides to cease it and charge you for it then what would you do-pay more for it to conserve your battery or complain about it?
I'd I wouldn't do either. I am do not frequent areas with their WiFi hotspots enough to warrant the charge, but I wouldn't complain about it either. I'd just say that AT&T has fracked up again. While this on again off again snafu makes me think they could later decide to charge for it I am certain they would later recant that policy and give it away for free for the reasons detailed above. It's in everyone's best interest.
PS: Their current system of typing in your iPhone is a pathetic system. Any device that can spoof a mobile Safari browser can use it. If you don't have an iPhone you probably know someone with one on AT&T; just type their phone number in and your good to go.
They have a couple possibilities to prevent this from happening... edit:
Then it's Win/Loose
Then it's Lose/Lose. There will more users bogging down AT&T expensive network which will require more frequent bandwidth upgrades or risk upsetting customers, which is never good for business.
I would like to get an iPhone WITHOUT the data plan, especially if it will work with wireless hotspots. Is that possible?
No. See here.
Nor can you buy a 3G iPhone as suggested, not without signing a 2 year contract on the spot and that contract comes with a data plan automatically. Getting an original iPhone and then hacking it would be possible, but why go through that trouble and cost to then not have a fully functional iPhone?