There are obvious extremes, but English isn't like math. There countless kludges in the language that have been there for a long time because of its evolution. If you pay too much attention to it, you'll just get needlessly angry. It can be slowed down, but not stopped.
THINK DIFFERENT
Since we're in the era of blaming Apple for all the ills in our lives, that, my friend, is where it all began...
On UIQ (on Symbian) you hold your stubby finger over the text for a short while and drag to select. Apps then have an edit menu and pull down like desktop OSs to cut/copy/paste. The delay in holding your stubby finger there for long enough signifies you're wanting to select text rather than just move the caret.
On the iPhone I'd guess they'd do the same but instead of the edit menu they'd pop up a box asking what to do with the selection since adding an edit menu to every app now is out.
I think the real issue is how to identify the exact beginning and ending of the selection when using those stubby fingers.
If the selection is obvious, then I agree with your method. For example, a date or phone number field. But if it's just a field of text, then I might not want to copy the whole thing.
Also, we know if the selection is so obvious that it can be identified, then it can even trigger an action beyond copy/paste, such as opening a web page in Safari, or adding a phone number into a contact.
Sounds good in theory but overloading the magnifying glass with that functionality could cause problems. People will be trying to position the magnifier and take a little too long and it will then enter copy mode, not optimal. It needs to be specifically different (IMO) in order to work properly.
I give you credit though, at least you put some thought into it.
Why not pinch the text you want to copy/cut and gesture a C for copy, X for cut, and the a P for paste when you position the cursor where you want it?
I think that they could implement it using a two finger touch. When you want to copy something, put down your two fingers and the screen for 2 seconds. A "cursor" will come up with the magnifying glass. You drag until you reach the end of the text. It adds it to the "clipboard". To paste it into another text field, you go to the text field and touch the screen with two fingers for 2 seconds. The text is added. Simple enough, IMHO.
I think that they could implement it using a two finger touch. When you want to copy something, put down your two fingers and the screen for 2 seconds. A "cursor" will come up with the magnifying glass. You drag until you reach the end of the text. It adds it to the "clipboard". To paste it into another text field, you go to the text field and touch the screen with two fingers for 2 seconds. The text is added. Simple enough, IMHO.
Tell me what you think.
Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie
While holding one finger on an input field, tap another to begin selecting, then drag the first finger. On release, pop up a menu.
There are plenty of ways of doing it, but finding an intuitive one that doesn't the while text-entry process bogged down is the hard part.
Using two fingers seems like the only way to to tell the system what you need done, but having two fingers on the screen would be awkward and self defeating if you are are then trying to select specific text with this motion. My finger is already in the way when using the magnifying glass and one finger on the screen.
Now if your thumb from one hand was holding down the Home button while you gently tap the area you wish to start your copy and end then end your copy it would be easier to see what is going on. It would also allow you to flick the page if the text you wanted to copy was outside teh scope of a single page.
There are still other issues that need to be resolved after Apple decides on a way to initiate a method of copying. The ida that some think this is easily solvable by adding a Clipboard is absurd.
Here is a demo of an text editing app for the iPhone that is awaiting approval. It has multi-text features, including cut/copy/paste. There method is holding down when dragging after finding the point you wish to start. I'm not completely sold on that, but I'm really not fond of the extra bar at the top of the keyboard. Adding it to the spacebar as a hold function or flicking the keyboard to to alternate commands would give me more room for typing.
That works for me on UIQ already and has done since 2003. :-)
The only important differences are that the cursor is flashing on UIQ until you hold it in one place for long enough and then it stops flashing to indicate it's in selection mode. No colour changes.
The other major difference is the keyboard is optional (you use gestures to 'type') and no magnifying glass of course so a stylus is needed to see what you're doing under your finger, but the selection is the same. I quite often write without a stylus but selecting text would be tricky. 3rd party software solved that with magnifying glasses like Apple some time ago though....
That's a shot from the original P800 back in 2001-ish with 'Fing It' software installed.
In the video solipism posted, I think they need a more defined indication of the switch from cursor positioning mode to selection mode like UIQ's flashing/solid transition or Ireland's changing colour. A bit more delay too.
The toolbar is annoying. There's already about half the screen taken up by a keyboard (which isn't there usually on UIQ despite it's smaller screen) but obviously the developer can't add a key to the existing Apple keyboard. On the onscreen UIQ keyboard, there's a little triangle top left above the top row to pull down the edit menu. That's what Apple needs to add too. There's a bunch of other crap on the UIQ keyboard they really shouldn't add like the extra prxy field you type into and the field forward/back and done buttons.
If you have to wrote info down with pen and paper to transfer it between applications, something is very wrong.
You are sooo right. I had this same exact thought the other day when I had to write down a phone number from the contacts on a piece of paper so I could text it to a friend.
You are sooo right. I had this same exact thought the other day when I had to write down a phone number from the contacts on a piece of paper so I could text it to a friend.
Isn't there a 'Send contact as SMS|Email|Bluetooth' option in contacts ? If not there probably should be as it negates the need for cut/copy/paste most of the time.
I'm still slightly puzzled by the furore over the lack of cut/copy/paste since it's something I very rarely use on my phone..... but if there's no 'Send ... as ...' I can perhaps see why you'll be after the more general old desktop metaphor.
Isn't there a 'Send contact as SMS|Email|Bluetooth' option in contacts ? If not there probably should be as it negates the need for cut/copy/paste most of the time.
Unfortunately, that features does not exist. If it did would help immensely w/o any copy-cut-paste options.
For me, I was a Treo to iPhone convert. So I got used to having a lot of small options that added up to a nice user experience. I miss a lot of those options.
Composing email is tricky without decent basic editing features like highlighting text and moving it, copying passages from other emails and pasting them into a new one, copying contact info like phone numbers and address from contacts into an email, etc.
Because features like these are missing I still, to this day, do not use the email app in my phone like I should (or at least like I did on my Treo).
First of all if your going to push this phone as if it were "enterprise" ready you need a copy/paste tool. Second to add copy/paste just make it so you can double tap on the screen and instead of lifting after the second tap and allowing it to zoom in hold it down. Drag your finger across the text you want to copy then when it's all highlighted let go. Push your finger down on the highlighted text until the menu pops up giving you the option to 'save image' but also add saying .copy text' then go to a blank page or a spot your typing hold your finger down allow the same menu to pop up but with 'paste text' if your fingers are fat delete any excess text you might have copied. This is simple I know apple can figure this out. Btw I have the new iPhone... I love it but I need copy/paste and I hate that driving around new York I am forced to use edge because there is no 3g coverage.. And when there is I get maybe 2 bars which is still worse than using edge
The software running the iPhone is smart, so if you just simply slide your finger horizontally across the text that you want to copy, it should be able to recognize your intent to copy, and then you can simply slide your finger in the place where you intend to paste it and voile. If you have more than one thing in your clipboard, then a small window could open with your options, and you could just simply touch the text that you want pasted
Comments
There are obvious extremes, but English isn't like math. There countless kludges in the language that have been there for a long time because of its evolution. If you pay too much attention to it, you'll just get needlessly angry. It can be slowed down, but not stopped.
THINK DIFFERENT
Since we're in the era of blaming Apple for all the ills in our lives, that, my friend, is where it all began...
On UIQ (on Symbian) you hold your stubby finger over the text for a short while and drag to select. Apps then have an edit menu and pull down like desktop OSs to cut/copy/paste. The delay in holding your stubby finger there for long enough signifies you're wanting to select text rather than just move the caret.
On the iPhone I'd guess they'd do the same but instead of the edit menu they'd pop up a box asking what to do with the selection since adding an edit menu to every app now is out.
I think the real issue is how to identify the exact beginning and ending of the selection when using those stubby fingers.
If the selection is obvious, then I agree with your method. For example, a date or phone number field. But if it's just a field of text, then I might not want to copy the whole thing.
Also, we know if the selection is so obvious that it can be identified, then it can even trigger an action beyond copy/paste, such as opening a web page in Safari, or adding a phone number into a contact.
I think the real issue is how to identify the exact beginning and ending of the selection when using those stubby fingers.
Apple already provides a magnifier to help place the cursor accurately. Haven't you seen it?
Apple already provides a magnifier to help place the cursor accurately. Haven't you seen it?
How would you implement it then Jeff? Explain in detail what the magnifying glass would have to do with cut/copy/paste technique.
How would you implement it then Jeff? Explain in detail what the magnifying glass would have to do with cut/copy/paste technique.
Here.
Here.
Sounds good in theory but overloading the magnifying glass with that functionality could cause problems. People will be trying to position the magnifier and take a little too long and it will then enter copy mode, not optimal. It needs to be specifically different (IMO) in order to work properly.
I give you credit though, at least you put some thought into it.
Why not pinch the text you want to copy/cut and gesture a C for copy, X for cut, and the a P for paste when you position the cursor where you want it?
Tell me what you think.
Steve
There are plenty of ways of doing it, but finding an intuitive one that doesn't the while text-entry process bogged down is the hard part.
I think that they could implement it using a two finger touch. When you want to copy something, put down your two fingers and the screen for 2 seconds. A "cursor" will come up with the magnifying glass. You drag until you reach the end of the text. It adds it to the "clipboard". To paste it into another text field, you go to the text field and touch the screen with two fingers for 2 seconds. The text is added. Simple enough, IMHO.
Tell me what you think.
Steve
While holding one finger on an input field, tap another to begin selecting, then drag the first finger. On release, pop up a menu.
There are plenty of ways of doing it, but finding an intuitive one that doesn't the while text-entry process bogged down is the hard part.
Using two fingers seems like the only way to to tell the system what you need done, but having two fingers on the screen would be awkward and self defeating if you are are then trying to select specific text with this motion. My finger is already in the way when using the magnifying glass and one finger on the screen.
Now if your thumb from one hand was holding down the Home button while you gently tap the area you wish to start your copy and end then end your copy it would be easier to see what is going on. It would also allow you to flick the page if the text you wanted to copy was outside teh scope of a single page.
There are still other issues that need to be resolved after Apple decides on a way to initiate a method of copying. The ida that some think this is easily solvable by adding a Clipboard is absurd.
Here.
That works for me on UIQ already and has done since 2003. :-)
The only important differences are that the cursor is flashing on UIQ until you hold it in one place for long enough and then it stops flashing to indicate it's in selection mode. No colour changes.
The other major difference is the keyboard is optional (you use gestures to 'type') and no magnifying glass of course so a stylus is needed to see what you're doing under your finger, but the selection is the same. I quite often write without a stylus but selecting text would be tricky. 3rd party software solved that with magnifying glasses like Apple some time ago though....
That's a shot from the original P800 back in 2001-ish with 'Fing It' software installed.
In the video solipism posted, I think they need a more defined indication of the switch from cursor positioning mode to selection mode like UIQ's flashing/solid transition or Ireland's changing colour. A bit more delay too.
The toolbar is annoying. There's already about half the screen taken up by a keyboard (which isn't there usually on UIQ despite it's smaller screen) but obviously the developer can't add a key to the existing Apple keyboard. On the onscreen UIQ keyboard, there's a little triangle top left above the top row to pull down the edit menu. That's what Apple needs to add too. There's a bunch of other crap on the UIQ keyboard they really shouldn't add like the extra prxy field you type into and the field forward/back and done buttons.
One would surmise this "copy & paste" would have been included with the inception of the iphone,
As it was built from the Mac OS from the begining...
Think back.....copy & paste was always a part of the Mac OS.
IMHO I believe Apple left it out...on purpose.
Yup. It's called "Planned Obsolescence".
If you have to wrote info down with pen and paper to transfer it between applications, something is very wrong.
Will be using this daily if put in!
Isn't there a 'Send contact as SMS|Email|Bluetooth' option in contacts ? If not there probably should be as it negates the need for cut/copy/paste most of the time.
I'm still slightly puzzled by the furore over the lack of cut/copy/paste since it's something I very rarely use on my phone..... but if there's no 'Send ... as ...' I can perhaps see why you'll be after the more general old desktop metaphor.
Isn't there a 'Send contact as SMS|Email|Bluetooth' option in contacts ? If not there probably should be as it negates the need for cut/copy/paste most of the time.
Unfortunately, that features does not exist. If it did would help immensely w/o any copy-cut-paste options.
For me, I was a Treo to iPhone convert. So I got used to having a lot of small options that added up to a nice user experience. I miss a lot of those options.
Composing email is tricky without decent basic editing features like highlighting text and moving it, copying passages from other emails and pasting them into a new one, copying contact info like phone numbers and address from contacts into an email, etc.
Because features like these are missing I still, to this day, do not use the email app in my phone like I should (or at least like I did on my Treo).
First of all if your going to push this phone as if it were "enterprise" ready you need a copy/paste tool. Second to add copy/paste just make it so you can double tap on the screen and instead of lifting after the second tap and allowing it to zoom in hold it down. Drag your finger across the text you want to copy then when it's all highlighted let go. Push your finger down on the highlighted text until the menu pops up giving you the option to 'save image' but also add saying .copy text' then go to a blank page or a spot your typing hold your finger down allow the same menu to pop up but with 'paste text' if your fingers are fat delete any excess text you might have copied. This is simple I know apple can figure this out. Btw I have the new iPhone... I love it but I need copy/paste and I hate that driving around new York I am forced to use edge because there is no 3g coverage.. And when there is I get maybe 2 bars which is still worse than using edge
The software running the iPhone is smart, so if you just simply slide your finger horizontally across the text that you want to copy, it should be able to recognize your intent to copy, and then you can simply slide your finger in the place where you intend to paste it and voile. If you have more than one thing in your clipboard, then a small window could open with your options, and you could just simply touch the text that you want pasted