Carmack: iPhone more powerful than Nintendo DS, PSP combined

Posted:
in iPhone edited January 2014
Speaking at QuakeCon 2008 in Dallas this week, id Software co-founder Carmack praised Apple's iPhone as an emerging force in mobile gaming industry and revealed his firm to be working on two titles for the handset.



Unlike most mobile platforms where gaming is largely brand-driven due to smaller screens, storage constraints and limited marketing flexibility, the iPhone offers a rare opportunity for game publishers to deliver graphics rich titles supported by detailed textual descriptions on the App Store, he said during a press conference.



The gaming icon admitted that he's disappointed id has yet to ship a game for the iPhone, but said two tentative titles are now well in the works. One was described as a 'conventional mobile game,' while the second was said to be more ambitious in that it will test the limits of the iPhone's graphics capabilities.



While Carmack sees graphics memory as a potential limiting factor on the iPhone, he's stoked about the intuitiveness of the iPhone SDK. He also described the handset's hardware as equivalent to that of the Sega Dreamcast living room console, and almost on par with Sony's PlayStation 2 and Microsoft's original Xbox.



When it comes to portable gaming systems, the iPhone is 'more powerful than a Nintendo DS and PSP combined,' he added. Apple's revenue sharing deal that offers developers 70 percent of the sale price was also cited as a plus.



That said, Carmack doesn't believe the iPhone is the definitive answer to mobile gaming. While sales of the device will be significant and may lead to more people playing games on their phones than ever before, he doesn't foresee billions of the devices being sold in a bid for world domination.



The verdict is also out on whether Apple has a concrete grasp of gaming, the id co-founder said. The company's reception to criticism has also been counterintuitive, which has led to its relationship with id being something akin to a roller-coaster ride.



Apple essentially kisses his ass when they need him to show up for one of Steve Jobs' keynotes, but then throws him the cold shoulder the second he passes judgement, Carmack said.



That said, he acknowledge that there are indeed some folks over in Cupertino who "are trying" to right the course for Mac and iPhone gaming.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 45
    jimzipjimzip Posts: 444member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Speaking at QuakeCon 2008 in Dallas this week, id Software co-founder Carmack praised Apple's iPhone as an emerging force in mobile gaming industry and revealed his firm to be working on two titles for the handset.



    When it comes to portable gaming systems, the iPhone is 'more powerful than a Nintendo DS and PSP combined,' he added.



    Someone mentioned a week or so back that the iPhone was more powerful than the dreamcast... I think that's really impressive, interested to see what games ID is working on...



    Jimzip
  • Reply 2 of 45
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,591member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    The verdict is also out on whether Apple has a concrete grasp of gaming, the id co-founder said. The company's reception to criticism has also been counterintuitive, which has led its relationship with id being something akin to a roller-coaster ride.



    Apple essentially kisses his ass when they need him to show up for one of Steve Jobs' keynotes, but then throws him the cold shoulder the second he passes judgement, Carmack said.



    That said, he acknowledge that there are indeed some folks over in Cupertino who "are trying" to right the course for Mac and iPhone gaming.



    Get this guy some Kool-Aid so he can see were he is wrong.



    What is wrong with Apple?
  • Reply 3 of 45
    It isn't a question as to whether or not the iPhone is more powerful than a PSP or a DS. That's irrelevant (look at how the Wii is wiping the floor with the XBox360 and PS3 if you don't believe me.) Other considerations are far more important. First, real games require real buttons. Tilt and swipe may be a cute distraction, but it doesn't get it done for anything but solitaire or soduku. Ask any real gamer. But, more importantly, just which is a parent going to buy for their 8 to 13 year old (check your demographics, that's where the millions of units/quarter sales go. Not to 25 year old techies), a $129 DS (which, in case you've missed it, already has WiFi, microphone, and a touch screen), a $199 PSP (with WiFi, music, and movies), or a $2400 iPhone (counting the contract commitment, and, yes, those are REAL DOLLARS you MUST PAY to use the iPhone)?
  • Reply 4 of 45
    brianusbrianus Posts: 138member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scottkitts View Post


    But, more importantly, just which is a parent going to buy for their 8 to 13 year old (check your demographics, that's where the millions of units/quarter sales go. Not to 25 year old techies), a $129 DS (which, in case you've missed it, already has WiFi, microphone, and a touch screen), a $199 PSP (with WiFi, music, and movies), or a $2400 iPhone (counting the contract commitment, and, yes, those are REAL DOLLARS you MUST PAY to use the iPhone)?



    What about the iPod touch?
  • Reply 5 of 45
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Apple essentially kisses his ass when they need him to show up for one of Steve Jobs' keynotes, but then throws him the cold shoulder the second he passes judgement, Carmack said.



    Simple... the next time Apple needs him to show up for one of Steve's keynotes, don't let Apple kiss your ass, instead, have them throw a contract in your face so you won't get the cold shoulder!
  • Reply 6 of 45
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scottkitts View Post


    It isn't a question as to whether or not the iPhone is more powerful than a PSP or a DS. That's irrelevant (look at how the Wii is wiping the floor with the XBox360 and PS3 if you don't believe me.) Other considerations are far more important. First, real games require real buttons. Tilt and swipe may be a cute distraction, but it doesn't get it done for anything but solitaire or soduku. Ask any real gamer. But, more importantly, just which is a parent going to buy for their 8 to 13 year old (check your demographics, that's where the millions of units/quarter sales go. Not to 25 year old techies), a $129 DS (which, in case you've missed it, already has WiFi, microphone, and a touch screen), a $199 PSP (with WiFi, music, and movies), or a $2400 iPhone (counting the contract commitment, and, yes, those are REAL DOLLARS you MUST PAY to use the iPhone)?



    1) Why would you weaken your valid argument by using a hyperbolic example of the iPhone and not he iPod Touch which has no contract and only costs $299.



    2) While not everyone looks at other features or TOC, there are plenty that will take the lower prices games, the built-in iPod—which is huge financial saving over buying their kid an iPod Nano/Classic AND a DS/PSP—and other options. The combining of two devices with similar HW into one is not only an easy way to save money but also a very common trend.



    3) Most kids get what they want. Last year we saw that the iPhone at $600 and then $400 was more popular with HS kids than most people would have thought.



    4) While there are very few accessories for the iPod Touch/iPhone there is no reason that a company like Id that wants to get serious about OS X iPhone gaming can't work with a company to have an accessory that goes under and around the Apple device to allow for a full D-Pad. It could easily include an additional battery juice for extended play and dual headphones jacks, etc.



    I don't care for this mock up as it's too clunk,but you get the idea of how easy it would be to create.

  • Reply 7 of 45
    guckygucky Posts: 7member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scottkitts View Post


    a $199 PSP



    Your info regarding the PSP's price is quite outdated: it has been $170 for quite some time. Unlike the DS and iPhone/iPod Touch it also supports removable memory media. The lack of support for removable memory media is one of my biggest gripes with my iPod Touch. The other is the lack of a builtin microphone and no Skype or IM.
  • Reply 8 of 45
    Lets wait and see where the demand really is before trying to tell Apple how to turn a phone into a game machine....same for the Touch. Apple is very strategic and it takes time to get things in place for those strategies. Right now I think they're set in what they want to do and history shows they don't cater to the hardcore people.



    I do think it's going to be more about the casual games. I also don't see Apple adding joysticks and buttons to clutter up the interface. They have a target market on what the device is about and people like Carmack and others likely aren't going to change that. We'll see though...they claim to be a consumer company now so perhaps they'll so something like maybe a seperate device down the road...doubtful but possible.



    BTW, for the person commenting on the Wii vs other consoles. The number of consoles sold is not the whole story although most of the media would have you believe that. Look at software sales for them as well since the companies do get a cut of that and you should find that the Xbox 360 outsells the Wii in game software. The Wii's certainly sell well but it's mostly by people who just want a fun console with the games that are included. So in other words not many hard core gamers are buying the Wii's(hardcore gamers tend to buy lots of games) and the game developers don't see a good return on their investment on average.
  • Reply 9 of 45
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Personally, I am getting tired of Carmack's posturing in the media. He is always ripping on Apple's faults but he is famous for being a bit of a jerk himself.



    After some of the things he has said about Apple (I know we all say them but a person of his public stature should be more careful), I couldn't care less what Carmack thinks about this stuff.



    He has shown himself to be a giant tool several times now. Why should we care about the opinions of someone who is only famous for creating a FPS back in the 80's and then repeating himself 50 times afterwards?



    Wolfenstein 3D is the only good one anyway. Doom and all that other junk is just "repeat but with gorier graphics" really.
  • Reply 10 of 45
    I no programer but why doesn't some do a "MS consumed by a black hole." game. I even would become a gamer to see those stars gone.



    E=MC2 or M=E/C2 or MS zero mass.
  • Reply 11 of 45
    this is a lie!



    wii sells more software than 360



    almost double



    do your homework before posting fanboy posts



    http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly.php



    this is for the last week



    but look in the site for past weeks too



    to me apple is super stupid



    they should release an iPlay or smth



    and they will have everything combined in 1 machine



    give me a dual analog control pad for iphone



    and it can have



    dual analog of xbox/ps3 motion controls of wii touchscreen and mic of ds and the widescreen of the psp plus a phone a gps and ipod....





    everything combined !!!!!!!!



    it could come as an extra peripheral like the icontrolpad



    but they will not make it



    sometimes i wish i was in control of that things



    anyway....
  • Reply 12 of 45
    bigmc6000bigmc6000 Posts: 767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gucky View Post


    Your info regarding the PSP's price is quite outdated: it has been $170 for quite some time. Unlike the DS and iPhone/iPod Touch it also supports removable memory media. The lack of support for removable memory media is one of my biggest gripes with my iPod Touch. The other is the lack of a builtin microphone and no Skype or IM.



    Does AIM not run on your Touch? I'm pretty certain it does. And really - removeable media is just a way to convince you to spend more. Just put enough storage internally (which the touch has) and there you go - you don't even need to worry about buying extra cards or any of that. I just still don't get the removable media argument - most all of the things that offer removeable media cards are crippled without one so why not just put it in. You really think you're going to upgrade to a 16GB micro card? I mean, I suppose you might but the vast majority of people just buy a new product rather than continuing to crutch along their old product (look at new computer sales, specifically PCs).



    Also, the games on the Touch (and iPhone for that matter) are all stored directly on the device. You don't need to carry around disks or cartridges or any of that - just your iPod. It's also quite unfair to compare the cost of a touch to that of a PSP or DS as the Touch does so much more than either of those machines. It's more like the costs of a DS + an iPod Nano. Not so cheap anymore and you're stuck toting around two things rather than 1 whose games are cheaper and easier to buy and don't require you to carry around dozens of disks to have the option of playing dozens of games.



    Combined with the ever expanding iTunes database of music, tv shows, movies and pod casts (and the fully featured web browser that neither PSP or the DS even come close to) and the Touch is the best all in one entertainment device.



    1 last thing - the "real gamers" thing that people talk about - that's just hilarious. It's a PORTABLE. "Real" gamers get the 17" Alienware laptop with SLI cards - they don't go around playing PSP's.
  • Reply 13 of 45
    Real gamers use alienware sli??



    pc gaming?



    are u kidding me??



    all the companies that are in video games since the 70s or 80s are almost 100% devoted to consoles



    computer gaming is dead



    and we are not missing it



    look the sales of pc gaming



    is maybe the 2-3% of consoles software sales



    these are the REAL gamers?



    lol



    i dont think so



    we are talking about sales



    and the pc is a dead market



    an iphone game can sale way better than a pc game



    but can't compare to a ds one



    also the sli users are mostly pirates



    all the technology freaks are pirates



    they know they can have their software for free



    and companies dont even care about them



    is logic
  • Reply 14 of 45
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post


    And really - removeable media is just a way to convince you to spend more.



    How? Most companies that make portable devices aren't players in the flash media cards.



    Quote:

    Just put enough storage internally (which the touch has) and there you go - you don't even need to worry about buying extra cards or any of that. I just still don't get the removable media argument - most all of the things that offer removeable media cards are crippled without one so why not just put it in. You really think you're going to upgrade to a 16GB micro card? I mean, I suppose you might but the vast majority of people just buy a new product rather than continuing to crutch along their old product (look at new computer sales, specifically PCs).



    I think this is an overly consumeristic argument. New stuff is nice, but it's generally pretty wasteful. The thing that changes more than anything else is the cost and capacity of the memory. A three year old device is usually plenty good for a task, a bigger card than what was available or affordable can breathe new life into that device.
  • Reply 15 of 45
    guarthoguartho Posts: 1,208member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drexciya View Post


    Real gamers use alienware sli??



    pc gaming?



    are u kidding me??



    all the companies that are in video games since the 70s or 80s are almost 100% devoted to consoles



    computer gaming is dead



    and we are not missing it



    look the sales of pc gaming



    is maybe the 2-3% of consoles software sales



    these are the REAL gamers?



    lol



    Your posts aren't quite Haikus, but there's some similar kind of underlaying rigid syllable structure isn't there?
  • Reply 16 of 45
    lukazlukaz Posts: 10member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scottkitts View Post


    It isn't a question as to whether or not the iPhone is more powerful than a PSP or a DS. That's irrelevant (look at how the Wii is wiping the floor with the XBox360 and PS3 if you don't believe me.) Other considerations are far more important. First, real games require real buttons. Tilt and swipe may be a cute distraction, but it doesn't get it done for anything but solitaire or soduku. Ask any real gamer. But, more importantly, just which is a parent going to buy for their 8 to 13 year old (check your demographics, that's where the millions of units/quarter sales go. Not to 25 year old techies), a $129 DS (which, in case you've missed it, already has WiFi, microphone, and a touch screen), a $199 PSP (with WiFi, music, and movies), or a $2400 iPhone (counting the contract commitment, and, yes, those are REAL DOLLARS you MUST PAY to use the iPhone)?



    You say that consoles need buttons and that the accelerometer is a distraction, but when you said power is irrelevant and mentioned the Wii, you forgot to mention that the Wii itself surpassed PS3/Xbox cause of the controller. Yeah, the accelerometer is a useless cute distraction...

    The accelerometer can actually substitute the analog/Dpad. The touchscreen can take care of the rest.

    Oh, and power do matters. Wii only has a bigger marketshare because it is designed for casual gaming, which atracted many people who not even had a PS2/Xbox/GameCube/Whatever.
  • Reply 17 of 45
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lukaz View Post


    The accelerometer can actually substitute the analog/Dpad. The touchscreen can take care of the rest.



    I have Mac?Man for my jailbroken iPhone. It uses the accelerometer to tell the Mac-man where to go. It and Sudoku are pretty much the only games I play, so I'm not exactly a serious gamer.
  • Reply 18 of 45
    lukazlukaz Posts: 10member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guartho View Post


    Real gamers use alienware sli??



    pc gaming?



    are u kidding me??



    all the companies that are in video games since the 70s or 80s are almost 100% devoted to consoles



    computer gaming is dead



    and we are not missing it



    look the sales of pc gaming



    is maybe the 2-3% of consoles software sales



    these are the REAL gamers?



    lol



    i dont think so



    we are talking about sales



    and the pc is a dead market



    an iphone game can sale way better than a pc game



    but can't compare to a ds one



    also the sli users are mostly pirates



    all the technology freaks are pirates



    they know they can have their software for free



    and companies dont even care about them



    is logic



    Dude, PLEASE. While PC gaming is on the fall, it is WAY better than console gaming. Strategy games on a console? How? Warcraft, Starcraft, WoW (with more than nine million users). Total War? Anyone? ANYONE?



    Even shooters are better in PCs. I can't imagine myself not using using a mouse in FPS or TPS.



    Anyway, that's why I want Apple to release something that will make my PC games compatible with OS X. That way I can definatly abanbon PCs once and for all.



    Or, at least release something easy for developers create a Mac port.



    Back on topic, I can't wait to transform my Touch in a Gaming powerhouse! Well, that is: when Games actually arrive in iTunes Store Brazil...
  • Reply 19 of 45
    bigmc6000bigmc6000 Posts: 767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    How? Most companies that make portable devices aren't players in the flash media cards.







    I think this is an overly consumeristic argument. New stuff is nice, but it's generally pretty wasteful. The thing that changes more than anything else is the cost and capacity of the memory. A three year old device is usually plenty good for a task, a bigger card than what was available or affordable can breathe new life into that device.



    I didn't say it wasn't more cost efficient - I'm just saying what usually happens.
  • Reply 20 of 45
    charkocharko Posts: 84member
    Yes, Carmack seems to miss out on the significance of the touch; but he's not the only one.

    While most of the media-hype is about the iPhone, and that not without reason, I've always thought that the touch is going to become a huge hit, quietly but surely.

    If the rumours are right and there's a new 64 GB touch with GPS being groomed, then I'm going to get one straight away.
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