Apple accused of dodging fair pay in class action lawsuit

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 90
    zinfellazinfella Posts: 876member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by echosonic View Post


    And the award for biggest drama queen of the day goes to......YOU.



    I wonder if he's less dramatic when he does take his meds?
  • Reply 62 of 90
    zinfellazinfella Posts: 876member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    Put up or shut up what? It will be up to the courts to decide whether any law was broken. Reread my post, I never claimed Apple had broken a law, I was making an observation about the fallacy that an appeal to 'responsibility to shareholdres' is an all encompassing moral justification for behaviour.





    You have neglected to show that there was any untoward behavior by Apple. In the meantime, Apple does have to answer to it's shareholders, so paying out funds unnecessarily would go over like a fart in a hailstorm. That is not a fallacy here in the US. Even worse, if Apple is indeed found guilty, the payout will exceed the payment for overtime, and the shareholders will be looking for blood.



    Having said that, I still think this guy is looking for a freebie. Maybe his BIL is a law-ya, and put him up to it.
  • Reply 63 of 90
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    Funny, isn't Pixar known for it's flexibility in mixing work with pleasure? They even have facilities that allow workers to bring in family & have a good old time. Strange to think that 2 companies run by Steve might have very employee moral.



    I'm a "Network Administrator" & get paid salary. Yeah it stinks to come in crazy hours or help out the big wigs when they're in a bind but I love my Job because of the opportunities it affords me.



    I agree with one of the earlier comments, if you don't like the job you quit. Bringing a lawsuit just makes you look money hungry. If you were doing it to help those still employed then you'd just leak the info to the press & let them pound on Apple for treating it's employees bad. I'd like to see more opinions about treatment from some of the other employees.
  • Reply 64 of 90
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    "Strange to think that 2 companies run by Steve might have very employee moral."



    was supposed to be "have very different employee moral."
  • Reply 65 of 90
    zinfellazinfella Posts: 876member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post


    "Strange to think that 2 companies run by Steve might have very employee moral."



    was supposed to be "have very different employee moral."



    Isn't it a leap of faith to say that Apple Inc. has an employee morale problem just on the basis of this suit?
  • Reply 66 of 90
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    That could be an important factor...did he complain during those twelve years? If he felt his categorization as an exempt employee was incorrect, did he contact his HR manager about it to get a clarification or file a complaint while he was an employee? We don't know, but I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the coverage.



    Not only that, the article doesn't really say specifically if this happened all along from year one or if it's more of a recent happening.
  • Reply 67 of 90
    zinfellazinfella Posts: 876member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Not only that, the article doesn't really say specifically if this happened all along from year one or if it's more of a recent happening.



    IOW, you could fill a book with what we don't know about all of this.
  • Reply 68 of 90
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zinfella View Post


    You have neglected to show that there was any untoward behavior by Apple.



    You seem to be having a problem with your comprehension there old son. What part of
    Quote:

    I never claimed Apple had broken a law, I was making an observation about the fallacy that an appeal to 'responsibility to shareholdres' is an all encompassing moral justification for behaviour.



    was it that you didn't understand?



    Quote:

    In the meantime, Apple does have to answer to it's shareholders, so paying out funds unnecessarily would go over like a fart in a hailstorm.



    What a wonderful simile to use. ;-)



    I put it to you that a fart in a hailstorm would never even be noticed at all, so would therefore go over very well!



    Quote:

    Having said that, I still think this guy is looking for a freebie. Maybe his BIL is a law-ya, and put him up to it.



    Let see if I get this right:



    It is perfectly acceptable, even required, for a corporation to maximise it's earnings, but it is wrong and immoral for this individual to do the same thing as regards his income?
  • Reply 69 of 90
    hillstoneshillstones Posts: 1,490member
    The laws are different in CA, and the people arguing that the employee should not complain about having a salary position are not informed about his situation. He does have a case, and this is your typical company (has nothing to do with Apple being the company) misclassifying employees to avoid paying them overtime.



    I am informed about this subject because I was in the class action lawsuit against Farmers Insurance regarding overtime pay and illegally classifying employees to avoid paying OT. The lawsuit against Farmers was the first of its kind. The employees succeeded in proving their case against Farmers. Farmers tried to classify the adjusters as "management level" to avoid paying overtime. The adjusters were not management level and had to report to a supervisor for all authority. We did not have any decision making ability. The workload was so outrageous, we would work 10-14 days, daily. After years of appeals, Farmers lost and finally paid. I received 10 1/2 years of unpaid overtime. This caused lawsuits against all other insurance companies as well as Rite Aid, UHaul, etc.



    So if this employee can prove his position is not exempt from overtime pay, he is entitled to what he is owed, and I applaud him for it.
  • Reply 70 of 90
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post


    I agree with one of the earlier comments, if you don't like the job you quit.



    Really? So obviously this is the answer for Russian women too?



    Quote:

    Since Soviet times, sexual harassment in Russia has become an accepted part of life in the office, work place and university lecture room.



    According to a recent survey, 100 per cent of female professionals said they had been subjected to sexual harassment by their bosses, 32 per cent said they had had intercourse with them at least once and another seven per cent claimed to have been raped.



    http://tinyurl.com/5jqrwd
  • Reply 71 of 90
    dcj001dcj001 Posts: 301member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post


    Obama says "um" a lot, as well as "ah" and "uh"!



    But not in written form.
  • Reply 72 of 90
    zinfellazinfella Posts: 876member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    You seem to be having a problem with your comprehension there old son. What part of was it that you didn't understand?



    What a wonderful simile to use. ;-)



    I put it to you that a fart in a hailstorm would never even be noticed at all, so would therefore go over very well!







    Let see if I get this right:



    It is perfectly acceptable, even required, for a corporation to maximise it's earnings, but it is wrong and immoral for this individual to do the same thing as regards his income?



    You're a broken record. It has NOT been proven that apple did anything wrong, OR that this guy actually has a case. Here in the US, you can sue anybody for any reason that you like, but that does not mean that you will prevail. You are fast to stand up for the rights of the employee without knowing the truth of the matter, and you're fast to assume that Apple was doing something that it shouldn't do.



    The courts will settle it, and if this guy is just looking for a payday, as I suspect, I hope they nail him for filing a frivolous lawsuit.
  • Reply 73 of 90
    Apple is in the right, as always. Why didn't this guy, and anybody else for that matter, just quit and go quietly to allow the questionable practices to continue? You don't question THE MAN with a devout following that makes pretty products.



    It's his fault for not quitting. If anything, Apple should sue HIM for not taking it like a B.
  • Reply 74 of 90
    ouraganouragan Posts: 424member
    It's high time that Courts have a look into Apple's labour practices.



    California is not China and Apple can't abuse workers without paying them.



    I sure hope that Apple workers prevail as this will be a precedent for all other high tech workers in California.



    I have to wonder why Steve Jobs ordered management to abuse employees and deny them a fair pay according to California laws. Apple is not on the verge of bankruptcy, is it?



  • Reply 75 of 90
    brendonbrendon Posts: 642member
    After reading down through the posts it appears that many people are really worked up on this subject. It appears that the debate is moving beyond Apple and into the greater scope of all thing OT.



    I think that if the guy has a case he should make it and apparently is attempting to do just that. I think that it is in the greater interest of those that are salaried and are exempt for him to bring the lawsuit and much better for all if he wins. It is suits like this that can prompt legislators to change laws, one way or the other, as I am sure they are being lobbied on both sides. If people do not attempt to keep their employers in check then don't expect anyone else to.



    Suffice to say that everyone posting appears to have at least a little passion about this and that may be a good thing.
  • Reply 76 of 90
    ouraganouragan Posts: 424member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zinfella View Post


    You're a broken record. It has NOT been proven that apple did anything wrong, OR that this guy actually has a case. Here in the US, you can sue anybody for any reason that you like, but that does not mean that you will prevail. You are fast to stand up for the rights of the employee without knowing the truth of the matter, and you're fast to assume that Apple was doing something that it shouldn't do.



    The courts will settle it, and if this guy is just looking for a payday, as I suspect, I hope they nail him for filing a frivolous lawsuit.





    You seem to ignore that Court procedures are supported by a sworn affidavit. Evidence will be given under oath.



    At this moment, we must assume that this technician has a case.



    While everyone understands that web servers must be maintained 24 hours per day, the class action is all about NOT PAYING technicians for the overtime they worked to maintain web servers in operation.



    This technician has sworn an affidavit to support his claim. His lawyers have examined the facts and researched the law to produce a 40 page brief. At this point, we must assume that Apple broke California laws and that this technician has a case.



    Sorry to break the news to you. Apple is a bad employer, just like WalMart and so many others.





    \\\
  • Reply 77 of 90
    zinfellazinfella Posts: 876member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouragan View Post


    You seem to ignore that Court procedures are supported by a sworn affidavit. Evidence will be given under oath.



    At this moment, we must assume that this technician has a case.



    While everyone understands that web servers must be maintained 24 hours per day, the class action is all about NOT PAYING technicians for the overtime they worked to maintain web servers in operation.



    This technician has sworn an affidavit to support his claim. His lawyers have examined the facts and researched the law to produce a 40 page brief. At this point, we must assume that Apple broke California laws and that this technician has a case.



    Sorry to break the news to you. Apple is a bad employer, just like WalMart and so many others.





    \\\



    It also helps so much when people in other countries try to tell us how our laws work. If you believe that every sworn affidavit contains only truth then you are beyond naive. You've convicted Apple with out a shred of evidence beyond this suspects character's own declarations. So, Perry Mason, according to you all Apple has to sign an sworn affidavit claiming that they didn't do what he says, and the whole thing becomes a wash. Hardly. I love WalMart! I hope they take over Canada, they certainly have enough money.
  • Reply 78 of 90
    brendonbrendon Posts: 642member
    I work in a large organization and I can tell you that there are two different kinds of management upper and lower. Frequently people on various teams that need to talk to workers up through upper management to address issues frequently report the same thing. Upper management is very much out of touch with the lay workers, and even with lower management. Frequently there will be company changes dictated from upper management. The problem comes when lower management interprets and then puts the changes into action through the workforce. It is strange that about the only thing that changes is how data is recorded or interpreted. Jobs, duties, and roles won't change but upper management won't ever see that because they only see the data lower management gathers and presents. In short I would be surprised if Steve Jobs knew anything about this. I would also be surprised if he sided with the lower level management on this, because the risk reward of this reeks of someone that is not seeing the whole picture. Risk big problems for the company to save a little, I ain't buying it. Plus it appears that the law is on this guys side, so the risk factor is up there with Russian roulette, with a fully loaded gun.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouragan View Post


    It's high time that Courts have a look into Apple's labour practices.



    California is not China and Apple can't abuse workers without paying them.



    I sure hope that Apple workers prevail as this will be a precedent for all other high tech workers in California.



    I have to wonder why Steve Jobs ordered management to abuse employees and deny them a fair pay according to California laws. Apple is not on the verge of bankruptcy, is it?







  • Reply 79 of 90
    How many of you actually worked for Apple? I bet the vast majority of you defending Apple has never worked for Apple.



    I have worked for Apple and lawsuits like this are way over due. Apple is squeezing their employees for as much as they can.



    Apple has profited immensely from their employees hard work and determination.

    In 2004 Apple's annual profit was $276m. Today it's $3.698b. A 1339% increase. During that same time their bank account went from $5.5b to $20.7b. A 376% increase. It's obvious they're not hurting for money.

    What did the employees get? Last year a measly 2%. Year before that, 0%.

    But how much of this can an employee take before saying "I Quit!"?
  • Reply 80 of 90
    zinfellazinfella Posts: 876member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sour Apple View Post


    How many of you actually worked for Apple? I bet the vast majority of you defending Apple has never worked for Apple.



    I have worked for Apple and lawsuits like this are way over due. Apple is squeezing their employees for as much as they can.



    Apple has profited immensely from their employees hard work and determination.

    In 2004 Apple's annual profit was $276m. Today it's $3.698b. A 1339% increase. During that same time their bank account went from $5.5b to $20.7b. A 376% increase. It's obvious they're not hurting for money.

    What did the employees get? Last year a measly 2%. Year before that, 0%.

    But how much of this can an employee take before saying "I Quit!"?



    Employees are paid wages, take it, or leave it. The company is in business to make money for the company, and it's shareholders, if you don't like that, negotiate something better, or leave. You have been paid for your labor, as you agreed to accept when you hired on. As long as you have been paid, Apple owes you nothing. Get over it.
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