Inside MobileMe: Apple's Push vs Exchange, BlackBerry, Google

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 54
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by danielEran View Post


    The fact remains that Exchange is designed for LAN use, and is built around?And don't confuse "able to be quibbled with" with "requiring fact checking."



    Well done.
  • Reply 22 of 54
    princeprince Posts: 89member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cseilern View Post


    the pricing cited by the author ($hundreds per year) is factually correct, but way out of line in reality. $7 a month will get you a 1 gigabyte Hosted Exchange account with a Windows Mobile push device - i.e. pretty much the same as MobileMe, without the photos and the storage.



    Congratulations on fitting your mailbox into 1GB and having no need for web hosting, file sharing, etc. But while the article noted that you can buy cheaper hosted Exchange plans for less, you are already getting far less in the top plan. 1GB is not "pretty much the same" as 20GB.



    Quote:

    And if you then factor in the cost of the device (an iPhone locks you into a contract which is virtually ALWAYS more expensive than any Windows Mobile dvice contract), the costs are NOT all that different, even if the solutions are.



    Where are these cheap WiMo phones with low cost service? Oh right, fantasy land! Where hosted exchange is also free, and where the iPhone costs soooo much money. I think the presentation in the article is pretty balanced and fair all around, noting omissions on the iPhone and comparing the strong and weak points of other services. There's no need to arch over backwards and put a bunch of exclamation points on what you perceive to be underreported flaws of the iPhone. There aren't any unreported flaws, and nobody is being tricked into buying it.



    Also, before you get going on how there are glitches and beta behaviors in MobileMe, look at the downtime for RIM BES, BIS, hosted Exchange, and other services, and then tell me how it is that WiMo phones are glitch-free when I have actually experienced the joy of supporting them in an enterprise environment for years. WiMo is simply embarrassing.



    Quote:

    dont mind the small possibility of becoming quite schackled to Apple (they are after all the ONLY MobileMe provider out there...), then MobileMe is OK too.



    MobileMe uses Mac OS X apps and Outlook. There is no lock in here. If you decide you'd rather migrate to another IMAP email service, you can move your mail over easily. You can export your calendars and contacts using standard file formats, or in many cases, simply sync to a different service, such as Google's, or connect to Exchange using the same Sync Services for a smooth transition.



    You can't attack the even-handed article for being "slanted" when you post comments that are simply false and intentionally misleading, and pile the ham on one side of the scale.
  • Reply 23 of 54
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by user828 View Post


    I hope I have been clear enough.



    Just to be sure. Your cell phone, i.e., BlackBerry Curve is free, and your monthly cell phone costs you $30 US per month. Email and your calendar are free. How many minutes and text messages per month?



    Unfortunately MobileMe does cost me about $8 US a month on top of my cell bill. Of course I do have to contend with the free storage space.
  • Reply 24 of 54
    wlauwlau Posts: 5member
    Great article. Quite informative.



    Thanks for the write up.
  • Reply 25 of 54
    What exactly was the point of mentioning Live Mesh? It's not a remotely comparable service to Mobile Me. Offering 1/5 of the functionality of Mobile Me doesn't make it a competitor. It seems like you only mentioned it so you could get a nice column chock full of red in your pretty table at the end.
  • Reply 26 of 54
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    Unfortunately MobileMe does cost me about $8 US a month on top of my cell bill. Of course I do have to contend with the free storage space.



    That 20GB of storage and 200GB of transfer per month is a great value compared to other options. Everything else is just gravy.



    I hope that Apple ties your iDisk to your MM so I can use it to email and save attachments from both the web app and the iPhone. The web app is easy as I'm already accessing Apple's servers.



    The iPhone would be trickier and would require a non-standards use of the way the iPhone sends emails. What I propose is that I can choose and attachment to send from the iPhone's MM mail, which will then offer a list of folders and files, their dates and size. These would just be a list and not the actual the contents.



    After I choose my attachment the email is essentially sent (at from your POV) from the iPhone but Apple's servers would then attachment the appropriate file(s) before sending it to it's destination. This setup would only work if using MM as your SMTP, which I don't currently use.



    Saving an attachment that you receive would work the same way but would require no additional data transmission to send the attachment from the iPhone back to your iDisk for safe keeping (though not really necessary since it is your mail). Since the attachment is already on the MM mail servers all you would have to do is send a message back to MM that you wish to save the file. This could be as simple as clicking the attachment in the iPhone mail, choosing to save to iDisk and what folder you wish to save it in. Once that is complete the iDisk will then sync your Mac(s) and PC(s) iDisks to match.



    I hope that didn't seem overly complex. Since it doesn't look like using the iPhone for file storage is an option we'll get anytime soon I think this would be a useful option that would be an added value to MM that would help make it and the iPhone harder to touch by competitors.
  • Reply 27 of 54
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Apple makes fun of Blackberry because information has to travel through the Blackberry server before it can get to the user's device. But isn't that how Apple's iPhone notification service is going to work?



    As for security, aren't communications between the Blackberry server and Blackberry devices already encrypted?
  • Reply 28 of 54
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    MobileMe already syncs Notes (but not Events/ToDos) among Macs



    With which Apple applications can Notes be synced with?
  • Reply 29 of 54
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    Apple makes fun of Blackberry because information has to travel through the Blackberry server before it can get to the user's device. But isn't that how Apple's iPhone notification service is going to work?



    Yes, but the Notification Servers are for 3rd-party apps to still function as if running in the background and they don't need to send sensitive information, it can be as simple as a notification of a new message arriving.



    Quote:

    As for security, aren't communications between the Blackberry server and Blackberry devices already encrypted?



    They are encrypted but it's still a single point of failure for everyone using RiM's Push service. If I'm not mistaken, this has caused more downtime in the past year than with MM mail service.
  • Reply 30 of 54
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    With which Apple applications can Notes be synced with?



    With Mail.app. MM is basically making a saved copy of it on its servers like it does with your Mac's Keychains, Widgets, System and Dock Preferences, et cetera. They can't be accessed by the MM web app or on the iPhone.
  • Reply 31 of 54
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by danielEran View Post


    Being able to use Outlook in Offline Mode is *required* because it isn't updated correctly unless you have a dedicated, externally secured connection configured and open. Incidentally, even Microsoft is backing away from the MAPI mess of the mid 90s, as Exchange ActiveSync uses OWA (Internet messaging!) and Entourage on the Mac uses IMAP (again, standards!)



    One area of constant annoyance in Entourage is its poor ability to handle large mailboxes. Entourage simply does not scale well. It has to constantly synchronize and download copies of every message and attachment in every folder of the user's mailbox. Even when configured as an Exchange client. This results in long sync times and large Entourage databases on the user's Mac. If an Entourage user accesses a shared calendar or someone else's shared mailbox folder, those items are also cached to the user's computer. It makes no sense at all.



    In contrast, Outlook for Windows can be configured to run in Online mode which works directly off the Exchange server rather than caching everything to the user's machine. Using Outlook in Online mode over a VPN is still faster than using Entourage over the same connection.



    I don't care whether Entourage as an Exchange client uses MAPI, WebDAV, or whatever protocol. Just give me something where I don't have to constantly wait for Entourage to copy and sync everything for no reason.



    http://apcmag.com/macbu_interview_of...ge_support.htm



    Quote:

    Entourage 2004 caches all data from the Exchange server onto the Mac's hard disk, which has impact on the Mac's disk space, slows network traffic, makes for long sync times and means you can miss just-updated information made between Entourage's periodic updates.



    Outlook for Windows, on the other hand, supports a useful alternative in 'online only' mode, which doesn't cache data but works directly against the server, with all data kept on the server rather than caching it all to the hard drive. Will Entourage 2008 also support this online only mode? "No, Entourage 2008 doesn't support that online-only mode" confirmed Wilfrid.



  • Reply 32 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    Just to be sure. Your cell phone, i.e., BlackBerry Curve is free, and your monthly cell phone costs you $30 US per month. Email and your calendar are free. How many minutes and text messages per month?



    Unfortunately MobileMe does cost me about $8 US a month on top of my cell bill. Of course I do have to contend with the free storage space.



    I have a regular cell bill and on top of that I pay a blackberry fee. The cell plans vary. Some have more minutes than others. And cost vary from 10 euros per month to whatever... like on the iphone... On top of that you pay 10 euros/month for the blackberry curve wich includes push email, chat and unlimited data. So over here it's as low as 20 euros per month.



    The calendar is done through the google servers so it's not part of the blackberry plan. It's a service that google offers for free to blackberry users that have gmail (or google apps wich is also free).



    But Italy is no example because it's one of the very few countries in the world where the number of mobile phones have surpassed the land phones, so prices are low. I pay 7 cents a minute for every phonecall mobile or land in the country... And in Italy you don't pay if you recieve calls. Only if you make them.
  • Reply 33 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Yes, but the Notification Servers are for 3rd-party apps to still function as if running in the background and they don't need to send sensitive information, it can be as simple as a notification of a new message arriving.





    They are encrypted but it's still a single point of failure for everyone using RiM's Push service. If I'm not mistaken, this has caused more downtime in the past year than with MM mail service.



    Blackberry has had push applications in years already. Plus the device is just made to make it easy to communicate. Apple has a long road ahead before being able to mach only the options you have on the blackberry operating system. If only iPhone had the little blinking light as the blackberry... So useful...



    It's not windows vs macos here... it's a matter of miscommunication. Blackberries are simply better communication devices. They just have a couple of marketing problems and need to fix a couple issues on the looks and system ergonomics. But the bold and the thunder models seem to be going in the right direction. iPhone is cool, for now. I have them both, and I'm a big apple fan since 84 but for now I'm not leaving my blackberry.
  • Reply 34 of 54
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    That 20GB of storage and 200GB of transfer per month is a great value compared to other options. Everything else is just gravy.



    I hope that Apple ties your iDisk to your MM so I can use it to email and save attachments from both the web app and the iPhone. The web app is easy as I'm already accessing Apple's servers.



    The iPhone would be trickier and would require a non-standards use of the way the iPhone sends emails. What I propose is that I can choose and attachment to send from the iPhone's MM mail, which will then offer a list of folders and files, their dates and size. These would just be a list and not the actual the contents.



    After I choose my attachment the email is essentially sent (at from your POV) from the iPhone but Apple's servers would then attachment the appropriate file(s) before sending it to it's destination. This setup would only work if using MM as your SMTP, which I don't currently use.



    Saving an attachment that you receive would work the same way but would require no additional data transmission to send the attachment from the iPhone back to your iDisk for safe keeping (though not really necessary since it is your mail). Since the attachment is already on the MM mail servers all you would have to do is send a message back to MM that you wish to save the file. This could be as simple as clicking the attachment in the iPhone mail, choosing to save to iDisk and what folder you wish to save it in. Once that is complete the iDisk will then sync your Mac(s) and PC(s) iDisks to match.



    I hope that didn't seem overly complex. Since it doesn't look like using the iPhone for file storage is an option we'll get anytime soon I think this would be a useful option that would be an added value to MM that would help make it and the iPhone harder to touch by competitors.



    I do hope that you realize that I was being sarcastic. I have been a .Mac user since Jan 6, 2000. And don't have any intention to quit using it.
  • Reply 35 of 54
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by user828 View Post


    I have a regular cell bill and on top of that I pay a blackberry fee. The cell plans vary. Some have more minutes than others. And cost vary from 10 euros per month to whatever... like on the iphone... On top of that you pay 10 euros/month for the blackberry curve wich includes push email, chat and unlimited data. So over here it's as low as 20 euros per month.



    The calendar is done through the google servers so it's not part of the blackberry plan. It's a service that google offers for free to blackberry users that have gmail (or google apps wich is also free).



    But Italy is no example because it's one of the very few countries in the world where the number of mobile phones have surpassed the land phones, so prices are low. I pay 7 cents a minute for every phonecall mobile or land in the country... And in Italy you don't pay if you recieve calls. Only if you make them.



    Love to know what your monthly usage and costs are.
  • Reply 36 of 54
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    I do hope that you realize that I was being sarcastic. I have been a .Mac user since Jan 6, 2000. And don't have any intention to quit using it.



    I know. I was just elaborating on the cloud file storage that is usually overlooked.
  • Reply 37 of 54
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by danielEran View Post


    Congratulations on fitting your mailbox into 1GB and having no need for web hosting, file sharing, etc. But while the article noted that you can buy cheaper hosted Exchange plans for less, you are already getting far less in the top plan. 1GB is not "pretty much the same" as 20GB.







    Where are these cheap WiMo phones with low cost service? Oh right, fantasy land! Where hosted exchange is also free, and where the iPhone costs soooo much money. I think the presentation in the article is pretty balanced and fair all around, noting omissions on the iPhone and comparing the strong and weak points of other services. There's no need to arch over backwards and put a bunch of exclamation points on what you perceive to be underreported flaws of the iPhone. There aren't any unreported flaws, and nobody is being tricked into buying it.



    Also, before you get going on how there are glitches and beta behaviors in MobileMe, look at the downtime for RIM BES, BIS, hosted Exchange, and other services, and then tell me how it is that WiMo phones are glitch-free when I have actually experienced the joy of supporting them in an enterprise environment for years. WiMo is simply embarrassing.







    MobileMe uses Mac OS X apps and Outlook. There is no lock in here. If you decide you'd rather migrate to another IMAP email service, you can move your mail over easily. You can export your calendars and contacts using standard file formats, or in many cases, simply sync to a different service, such as Google's, or connect to Exchange using the same Sync Services for a smooth transition.



    You can't attack the even-handed article for being "slanted" when you post comments that are simply false and intentionally misleading, and pile the ham on one side of the scale.



    Interesting little exchange here, no? Any predictions as to whether the Be Man has a response, or if he's realized he's out of his league?
  • Reply 38 of 54
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djdj View Post


    The comment that Exchange isn't meant to work over the Internet is just wrong.



    You've misunderstood what was said.



    It's not that Exchange isn't meant to be used over the internet now, it's that it wasn't originally written for that purpose.



    Later, it was extended to be able to work over the internet. but the original use was in high speed LAN's.
  • Reply 39 of 54
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    Just to be sure. Your cell phone, i.e., BlackBerry Curve is free, and your monthly cell phone costs you $30 US per month. Email and your calendar are free. How many minutes and text messages per month?



    Unfortunately MobileMe does cost me about $8 US a month on top of my cell bill. Of course I do have to contend with the free storage space.



    Of course, Apple isn't a phone provider, so these services must be charged for if Apple isn't going to lose money on them as Google seems to be willing to do.



    If Apple were a cell company, then it could wrap these services in some plan of its own.



    RIM has many layers of hardware and services that they charge for, while Apple doesn't (we're just talking about phones and plans, of course).
  • Reply 40 of 54
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    Apple makes fun of Blackberry because information has to travel through the Blackberry server before it can get to the user's device. But isn't that how Apple's iPhone notification service is going to work?



    As for security, aren't communications between the Blackberry server and Blackberry devices already encrypted?



    Triple encryption. Apple's is double. Triple is considered to be virtually unbreakable, while double is difficult, but doable.
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