A strange fact of life that most unhappy customers don't complain they just leave or never buy anything from company X again.
That depends. Every company is run by human beings and therefore will make mistakes. Customers satisfaction has less to do with whether a mistake has been made, customer satisfaction depends more on how a company deals with the customer to resolve a mistake. Leaving the customer feeling that their problem has been reasonably solved. Or leaving the customer feeling frustrated with a product that does not do what they paid money for it to do.
Quote:
What is a significant number anyhow? If it happens to ME then its significant! Stories of cracked phones out of the box and the pictures of white 3g phones on display in Regent Street AP Store cracked all over the place make this issue far from isolated.
Do you think that there is any company that is able to produce a electronic or mechanical product and have 100% come off of the assembly line with no defects?
Nokia has had its problems with producing 3G phones that required a software update to fix. When Nokia first introduced GPS to its phones it did not work very well at first. Nokia learned and switched to assisted GPS which works much better.
Dell had a major recall thousands of its laptops batteries because these defective batteries would burst into flame. The list goes on and on.
Quote:
Apple charge a premium price for a supposed premium product when in truth the iphone is just like nearly evry other gadget made in China. Cheap and poorly assembled with poor components. Its been made to fit a price point. I have no problem with good business and profit, I do have issue with lack of ownership and responsibility though.
The components in the iPhone are designed in the US, Europe, and South Korea. They are assembled in China. Do you really know enough about the manufacturers of the iPhone's components to know the quality of their build?
What exactly are you talking about lack of ownership and responsibility. Apple gives you 14 days to return the iPhone if you don't like it. They will also fix any defect with the phone for a year. What do you see as a lack of ownership and responsibility?
Quote:
Look at the ipod its not even the best music player, the new nano build quality is appalling ..so cheap and tacky....
but..
hype, marketing and 'cool' wins out over functionality in this crazy world.
In exactly what way is the nano cheap? You are quickly falling into wildly unsupported opinion.
first off..its a forum 99% is opinion the rest is mostly bullsh!t ! lol...
in order
1/ In the old days the 'a complaint is an opportunity' mantra was valid but nowadays I think it is less so. Even resolved issues can still leave a bad taste. Personally I cut multi billion dollar companies very little slack with this sort of thing, and that doesn't just include Apple.
2/ Fair point, but I'm not asking for 100%, I'm asking for reasonability. I have NEVER seen a non-abused phone with a cracked case and then suddenly the 3G comes out and some phones are busted out of the box? Even the working phones from a reception point of view (any connection) are far worse than the opposition. I know from experience that in some areas other phones give much better reception. There are plenty of issues, just google Apple logo of death. Apple are getting in BSOD company right now.
3/ Well Dell was a victim of SONY batteries so thats a bit different. I can't talk about the Nokia issue.
4/ Funny that you mention 'designed' and 'assembled' but not manufactured. The iphone 3g costs approx $100 to make..
it is a cheap product 'made' expensive. No I don't know the components in depth but these aren't Apple exclusive partners and for the money I can't see how 'quality' gets a look in. Its got an Apple badge and people think 'must be good and is cool'.... but only one of those is true.
5/ Ownership and responsibility is directed at Corporate Apple...throwing a deaf ear to everything. Acknowledge the problems? Pledge to fix them? Show compassion? Remember that customers pay the bills??? The statutory rights you mention shouldn't be held up as an excuse to release a sub standard product.
6/ The Nano, to me (as a long time Ipod owner) feels very cheap and nasty, just my opinion though. It doesn't have the quality feel that APple seemingly tries to push.
first off..its a forum 99% is opinion the rest is mostly bullsh!t ! lol...
To be fair many of us do make attempts to cite credible sources and facts to back up our opinions.
Quote:
1/ In the old days the 'a complaint is an opportunity' mantra was valid but nowadays I think it is less so. Even resolved issues can still leave a bad taste. Personally I cut multi billion dollar companies very little slack with this sort of thing, and that doesn't just include Apple.
This would be a good place to cite another source to help what you feel. Are their any studies that reveal consumers having less tolerance for mistakes companies may make?
The American Customer Satisfaction Index has found Apple to be at the top of consumer satisfaction in the PC industry.
ChangeWave Research has found the iPhone to top US mobile phone satisfaction.
Quote:
2/ Fair point, but I'm not asking for 100%, I'm asking for reasonability. I have NEVER seen a non-abused phone with a cracked case and then suddenly the 3G comes out and some phones are busted out of the box? Even the working phones from a reception point of view (any connection) are far worse than the opposition. I know from experience that in some areas other phones give much better reception. There are plenty of issues, just google Apple logo of death. Apple are getting in BSOD company right now.
No its not common to hear about phones being broken in the box. So far I haven't heard of that being a common occurence with the iPhone. Simply because its not common to hear about does not mean it does not happen. I would bet someone who works in electronics would say that some items are broken in shipment. You are looking to place blame of anything that happens as negligence on Apple's part.
The reception issues are believed to be with software and the Infinion chip. Its not as though this is unheard of other mobile manufacturers have had issues with 3G that had to be resolved.
Quote:
3/ Well Dell was a victim of SONY batteries so thats a bit different. I can't talk about the Nokia issue.
Its not different. Dell's customers weren't dealing with Sony they were dealing with Dell. It was Dell's responsibility to fix the situation and leave its customers satisfied.
Quote:
4/ Funny that you mention 'designed' and 'assembled' but not manufactured. The iphone 3g costs approx $100 to make..
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. These tear downs only look at raw materials and make an educated guess. But they leave out the many other expenses.
-The cost of research and development on the iPhone since 2004.
-Apple bought a company called FingerWorks for its touch screen technology.
-A percentage of each iPhone sale goes to Skyhook for its assisted GPS service.
-Apple designed and maintains the operating system, App Store, and in house apps.
This all cost above the $100 in materials for the phone itself.
Quote:
it is a cheap product 'made' expensive. No I don't know the components in depth but these aren't Apple exclusive partners and for the money I can't see how 'quality' gets a look in. Its got an Apple badge and people think 'must be good and is cool'.... but only one of those is true.
How can you qualify it a cheap product if you don't even know the components that its made of?
People have done tear downs of the iPhone that clearly detail the components inside. In comparison to other phones, the iPhone generally has a brighter screen, a faster processor, more RAM, longer battery life, and far more internal storage. The iPhone also uses new 3G radio chips.
Quote:
5/ Ownership and responsibility is directed at Corporate Apple...throwing a deaf ear to everything. Acknowledge the problems? Pledge to fix them? Show compassion? Remember that customers pay the bills??? The statutory rights you mention shouldn't be held up as an excuse to release a sub standard product.
This is the way Apple has always been. They rarely publicly acknowledge problems. It can frustrate people because it can seem Apple isn't listening but in truth they are listening and eventually issue a fix that resolves the problem.
Quote:
6/ The Nano, to me (as a long time Ipod owner) feels very cheap and nasty, just my opinion though. It doesn't have the quality feel that APple seemingly tries to push.
The nano is Apple's best selling iPod. You are free to have your opinion but Apple is selling tens of millions of them. After nearly a year of their sale there have been no significant problems with them.
Archipellago, forgive me if you are just having a little vent against Apple, but this thread is beginning to get a bit trollish.
You start off with a rant about your experience with the iPhone.
This then spreads to problems found on other message boards.
Apparently the iPod Nano is awfull.
We have now degenerated into crap cheapo Chinese gadgets.
You have started repeating that mantra on other threads.... together with .....
The Zune is really better than the iPod.
Apple hardware is overpriced
You can build a better PC than a Mac Mini .....
All the while clearly stating that you own Apple products.
Tell us how we can really help you.
No trolling I was a big Apple fan, in some ways still am, the failings with Mobile Me and the Iphone have opened my eyes to be honest. It is a vent I guess.
I bought into the 'Vista sucks' press with lots of other Mac heads..but you know what? With the right hardware it doesn't....it really doesn't! I'm shocked and surprised .... and on the same hardware Kubuntu absolutely flies! Funny a power failure mid session on Leopard hosed my system completely..wouldn't even boot! I recreated it with Vista....no problem, came straight back!
I only started looking on forums after the problems I have had, was never aware of the range of issues until now.... I am genuinely surprised.
The Nano isn't really awful, its stylish but to me looks and feels tacky and cheap, the tactile feedback makes it seem like a grade b product...certainly compared to some Creative products I've seen/used. My wife has a Nano...does its job but it does not have that premium feel for a premium product.
The Ipod in general..from a sound quality point of view is average, I didn't think that was news, sorry. The original Zune which was a Toshiba gigabeat was much better for sound but it was not alone.
Apple hardware in the main is overpriced...again I didn' think that was news. You paid for the 'it just works' and quality feel.... that seems to have gone a bit now though.
the mac mini/PC comparison wasn't direct..all I was saying is that for the money you need to spend on a base MM it is possible to build a great 'PC' that will run Vista great and be at LEAST as stable as an OSX machine. Vista problems eminate from cheap hardware..a bit llike iPhone problems!
I still own some Apple products but will get rid of them all soon, they are no longer worth the investment.
help me? You can't I don't want/need it. This is a forum for stories and opinions and experiences, sorry if I offended you. I'll reply to the others and then not post in this thread again.
No trolling I was a big Apple fan, in some ways still am, the failings with Mobile Me and the Iphone have opened my eyes to be honest. It is a vent I guess.
Hope your Apple experience is better than mine.
Sorry to hear about your problems. Curious though you did you not mention any attempt to contact Apple or your wireless carrier and give them a chance to resolve the problems.
You look like a troll when you jump into wild accusations that are purely opinionated with no factual evidence to support.
To be fair many of us do make attempts to cite credible sources and facts to back up our opinions.
This would be a good place to cite another source to help what you feel. Are their any studies that reveal consumers having less tolerance for mistakes companies may make?
The American Customer Satisfaction Index has found Apple to be at the top of consumer satisfaction in the PC industry.
ChangeWave Research has found the iPhone to top US mobile phone satisfaction.
No its not common to hear about phones being broken in the box. So far I haven't heard of that being a common occurence with the iPhone. Simply because its not common to hear about does not mean it does not happen. I would bet someone who works in electronics would say that some items are broken in shipment. You are looking to place blame of anything that happens as negligence on Apple's part.
The reception issues are believed to be with software and the Infinion chip. Its not as though this is unheard of other mobile manufacturers have had issues with 3G that had to be resolved.
Its not different. Dell's customers weren't dealing with Sony they were dealing with Dell. It was Dell's responsibility to fix the situation and leave its customers satisfied.
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. These tear downs only look at raw materials and make an educated guess. But they leave out the many other expenses.
-The cost of research and development on the iPhone since 2004.
-Apple bought a company called FingerWorks for its touch screen technology.
-A percentage of each iPhone sale goes to Skyhook for its assisted GPS service.
-Apple designed and maintains the operating system, App Store, and in house apps.
This all cost above the $100 in materials for the phone itself.
How can you qualify it a cheap product if you don't even know the components that its made of?
People have done tear downs of the iPhone that clearly detail the components inside. In comparison to other phones, the iPhone generally has a brighter screen, a faster processor, more RAM, longer battery life, and far more internal storage. The iPhone also uses new 3G radio chips.
This is the way Apple has always been. They rarely publicly acknowledge problems. It can frustrate people because it can seem Apple isn't listening but in truth they are listening and eventually issue a fix that resolves the problem.
The nano is Apple's best selling iPod. You are free to have your opinion but Apple is selling tens of millions of them. After nearly a year of their sale there have been no significant problems with them.
well as dear Oscar used to say...lies, damn lies and statistics!!
Without trying to be offensive or stereotypical it probably isn't a good idea for true accuracy purposes to ask Americans about an American company. Luckily I don't live in the US. Also when comparing Apple to Dell, HP etc. it isn't fair becuase it turns into an Apple versus MS, OSX versus Windows question. It is very hard to divorce the difference between thehardware company and software company (dell etc.) compared to APple who make it all.
Regardless of that I am surprised to see how close it is and how much Apple has dropped year on year. Still if you were to compare PC sales where the dollar volume is equal to the minimum amount you need to spend on a base Mac would you get a different result? It is a fairer comparison, problems with MS based systems is poor, cheap hardware...which unfortunately is the volume market.
Its a similar story for iPhone satisfaction. No doubt that when it works its good. Interstingly there is no time frame in that chart. I suspect that it is based mainly on non 3g iphones...in which case I agree...it was a much better product.
Any satisfaction survey invloving Apple is pointless IMO anyway. You have the 'cult of Mac' factor which is unexplained and doesn't apply to any other tech co. Its the secret club feeling. Surveyers don't want to respond negatively to any club they are a member of cos they feel it somehow makes them look silly. Apple is lucky to have such a following but to me all surveys of this type need taking with a large pinch of salt. There are people on here who have gone thru multiple 3g units who would still answer Apple are 'great' in a similar survey.
If the 3g infinion chip is defective Apple would need to issue a recall..which is why they won't 'find' it defective. They will quietly change it in future revisions (may have been done already) and effectively shaft a huge portion of their customers..... these customers would still speak positive about Apple!!!
Dell fixed it.... Apple may well not...??
Regardless of the costs invloved, there has never been a phone that is such a cash cow for both the manufacturer and networks. Remember the US is the cheapest place to have an Iphone, over here it cost (min) £639 ($1200 aprox) ....which to me makes APple responsible for making it fault free....you are paying the most money you should have the best...... but its not.
I assume there are cheap components in the iPhone based on reports in the media and the fact that it is fault ridden. to me its a simple equation! new 3g radio chips? lol that special batch that doesn't work??
Apple listening? maybe we'll see. They could acknowledge the problems at least!
no significant problems reported maybe.... does it look and feel like a premium product at a premium price?? No way.
Sorry to hear about your problems. Curious though you did you not mention any attempt to contact Apple or your wireless carrier and give them a chance to resolve the problems.
You look like a troll when you jump into wild accusations that are purely opinionated with no factual evidence to support.
Well I established it wasn't the network by using other handsets.
I have a good friend who works for Apple retail, one of their guys had a look at it and pronounced it A1. Still not happy so I sold it... why throw good time after bad?
Well I established it wasn't the network by using other handsets.
I have a good friend who works for Apple retail, one of their guys had a look at it and pronounced it A1. Still not happy so I sold it... why throw good time after bad?
Sorry to hear about your problems. All I can say is that the list of people I know in true life getting iPhones is growing. Other than the 3G issue, so far I haven't heard of anyone with the extremely severe problems people have been complaining about on the internet.
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Originally Posted by Archipellago
sorry I was replying to Tenobell saying it was a small isolated issue, clearly its not!
I don't recall saying anything was a small isolated issue.
The AI article you linked to essentially says people speculating on where the 3G issues stem from are all wrong, its not a hardware problem.
Sorry to hear about your problems. All I can say is that the list of people I know in true life getting iPhones is growing. Other than the 3G issue, so far I haven't heard of anyone with the extremely severe problems people have been complaining about on the internet.
I don't recall saying anything was a small isolated issue.
The AI article you linked to essentially says people speculating on where the 3G issues stem from are all wrong, its not a hardware problem.
1/ Cheers, no probs. I don't know of anyone with a RROD xbox 360 either but that WAS an issue!. Guess we'll never know. Your circle of friends with 3g's (large as it may be) is possibly less representative than the wider internet. Even the Apple dedicated sites are reporting it as a bigger issue now.
The '3g' issue is bigger than the rest due to the ENTIRE point of going from iphone1 to iphone2 is 3G!!
2/ you said in an earlier post... "The problem is that you are stacking the deck with negative stories. Without consideration for the fact that these are possibly a small minority of people having problems and are the most vocal. The far majority of people who are not having problems would have no reason to complain. I would also wager some number of these anonymous complainers are Apple/iPhone haters telling tall tales."
which I interpreted as 'small and isolated'..on reflection I still think thats fair. Sorry if you don't. Its a bigger issue than you were implying it was.
the origin of the 3g issue is unknown as far as I'm aware, some saying hardware, some software some saying a combo of the two. Time will tell but I suspect we'll never really know. Either way it reflects badly on Apple's QC and testing.
1/ Cheers, no probs. I don't know of anyone with a RROD xbox 360 either but that WAS an issue!. Guess we'll never know. Your circle of friends with 3g's (large as it may be) is possibly less representative than the wider internet. Even the Apple dedicated sites are reporting it as a bigger issue now.
How are iPhone users I know less representative of the wider internet? The only way I can think of is that the people I know actually use the iPhone, while the wider internet can be highly questionable.
I don't know how much attention you've been giving to Apple news. Every time there is something wrong with an Apple product no matter how big or small electronic interest sites make a huge deal about it. This is not at all the first.
Quote:
which I interpreted as 'small and isolated'..on reflection I still think thats fair. Sorry if you don't. Its a bigger issue than you were implying it was.
The point of what I was saying was not to imply how big or small the problem was. My point is that its impossible to gain a real assessment of the problem from a list of anonymous people complaining. Even more so when that list is likely tainted with people who do not own an iPhone and whose interest is in spreading false information.
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the origin of the 3g issue is unknown as far as I'm aware, some saying hardware, some software some saying a combo of the two.
The 3G issue is only unknown to us. Between Apple, Infinion, and the wireless carriers they will all figure it out.
Here is some possible leaked info into the matter....
What I was told was that 90% of the disconnects are initiated inside the phone, which would exonerate AT&T. Most of the disconnects are being generated by crashes in the driver code for the 3G chip, which comes from the chip vendor, not something Apple written and outside of Apple's direct control. Complicating this -- even though Apple is handing over "here is the bug, here is the fix, update the driver", the turnaround from the vendor on driver updates is on the order of 2-3 months. Said, um, lack of urgency not exactly making people inside the projects happy.
Quote:
Time will tell but I suspect we'll never really know. Either way it reflects badly on Apple's QC and testing.
When you say things like this it shows your lack of knowledge about computers and electronics. Every electronics manufacturer has some type of problem at some point. No one intends to ship faulty electronics but it happens to everyone.
Software can contain millions of lines of code and thousands of moving parts. Its impossible for the manufacturer to find all of the potential problems until they have the product out into the wider market and being used.
Comments
A strange fact of life that most unhappy customers don't complain they just leave or never buy anything from company X again.
That depends. Every company is run by human beings and therefore will make mistakes. Customers satisfaction has less to do with whether a mistake has been made, customer satisfaction depends more on how a company deals with the customer to resolve a mistake. Leaving the customer feeling that their problem has been reasonably solved. Or leaving the customer feeling frustrated with a product that does not do what they paid money for it to do.
What is a significant number anyhow? If it happens to ME then its significant! Stories of cracked phones out of the box and the pictures of white 3g phones on display in Regent Street AP Store cracked all over the place make this issue far from isolated.
Do you think that there is any company that is able to produce a electronic or mechanical product and have 100% come off of the assembly line with no defects?
Nokia has had its problems with producing 3G phones that required a software update to fix. When Nokia first introduced GPS to its phones it did not work very well at first. Nokia learned and switched to assisted GPS which works much better.
Dell had a major recall thousands of its laptops batteries because these defective batteries would burst into flame. The list goes on and on.
Apple charge a premium price for a supposed premium product when in truth the iphone is just like nearly evry other gadget made in China. Cheap and poorly assembled with poor components. Its been made to fit a price point. I have no problem with good business and profit, I do have issue with lack of ownership and responsibility though.
The components in the iPhone are designed in the US, Europe, and South Korea. They are assembled in China. Do you really know enough about the manufacturers of the iPhone's components to know the quality of their build?
What exactly are you talking about lack of ownership and responsibility. Apple gives you 14 days to return the iPhone if you don't like it. They will also fix any defect with the phone for a year. What do you see as a lack of ownership and responsibility?
Look at the ipod its not even the best music player, the new nano build quality is appalling ..so cheap and tacky....
but..
hype, marketing and 'cool' wins out over functionality in this crazy world.
In exactly what way is the nano cheap? You are quickly falling into wildly unsupported opinion.
in order
1/ In the old days the 'a complaint is an opportunity' mantra was valid but nowadays I think it is less so. Even resolved issues can still leave a bad taste. Personally I cut multi billion dollar companies very little slack with this sort of thing, and that doesn't just include Apple.
2/ Fair point, but I'm not asking for 100%, I'm asking for reasonability. I have NEVER seen a non-abused phone with a cracked case and then suddenly the 3G comes out and some phones are busted out of the box? Even the working phones from a reception point of view (any connection) are far worse than the opposition. I know from experience that in some areas other phones give much better reception. There are plenty of issues, just google Apple logo of death. Apple are getting in BSOD company right now.
3/ Well Dell was a victim of SONY batteries so thats a bit different. I can't talk about the Nokia issue.
4/ Funny that you mention 'designed' and 'assembled' but not manufactured. The iphone 3g costs approx $100 to make..
http://www.trustedreviews.com/apple/...100-To-Make/p1
it is a cheap product 'made' expensive. No I don't know the components in depth but these aren't Apple exclusive partners and for the money I can't see how 'quality' gets a look in. Its got an Apple badge and people think 'must be good and is cool'.... but only one of those is true.
5/ Ownership and responsibility is directed at Corporate Apple...throwing a deaf ear to everything. Acknowledge the problems? Pledge to fix them? Show compassion? Remember that customers pay the bills??? The statutory rights you mention shouldn't be held up as an excuse to release a sub standard product.
6/ The Nano, to me (as a long time Ipod owner) feels very cheap and nasty, just my opinion though. It doesn't have the quality feel that APple seemingly tries to push.
first off..its a forum 99% is opinion the rest is mostly bullsh!t ! lol...
To be fair many of us do make attempts to cite credible sources and facts to back up our opinions.
1/ In the old days the 'a complaint is an opportunity' mantra was valid but nowadays I think it is less so. Even resolved issues can still leave a bad taste. Personally I cut multi billion dollar companies very little slack with this sort of thing, and that doesn't just include Apple.
This would be a good place to cite another source to help what you feel. Are their any studies that reveal consumers having less tolerance for mistakes companies may make?
The American Customer Satisfaction Index has found Apple to be at the top of consumer satisfaction in the PC industry.
ChangeWave Research has found the iPhone to top US mobile phone satisfaction.
2/ Fair point, but I'm not asking for 100%, I'm asking for reasonability. I have NEVER seen a non-abused phone with a cracked case and then suddenly the 3G comes out and some phones are busted out of the box? Even the working phones from a reception point of view (any connection) are far worse than the opposition. I know from experience that in some areas other phones give much better reception. There are plenty of issues, just google Apple logo of death. Apple are getting in BSOD company right now.
No its not common to hear about phones being broken in the box. So far I haven't heard of that being a common occurence with the iPhone. Simply because its not common to hear about does not mean it does not happen. I would bet someone who works in electronics would say that some items are broken in shipment. You are looking to place blame of anything that happens as negligence on Apple's part.
The reception issues are believed to be with software and the Infinion chip. Its not as though this is unheard of other mobile manufacturers have had issues with 3G that had to be resolved.
3/ Well Dell was a victim of SONY batteries so thats a bit different. I can't talk about the Nokia issue.
Its not different. Dell's customers weren't dealing with Sony they were dealing with Dell. It was Dell's responsibility to fix the situation and leave its customers satisfied.
4/ Funny that you mention 'designed' and 'assembled' but not manufactured. The iphone 3g costs approx $100 to make..
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. These tear downs only look at raw materials and make an educated guess. But they leave out the many other expenses.
-The cost of research and development on the iPhone since 2004.
-Apple bought a company called FingerWorks for its touch screen technology.
-A percentage of each iPhone sale goes to Skyhook for its assisted GPS service.
-Apple designed and maintains the operating system, App Store, and in house apps.
This all cost above the $100 in materials for the phone itself.
it is a cheap product 'made' expensive. No I don't know the components in depth but these aren't Apple exclusive partners and for the money I can't see how 'quality' gets a look in. Its got an Apple badge and people think 'must be good and is cool'.... but only one of those is true.
How can you qualify it a cheap product if you don't even know the components that its made of?
People have done tear downs of the iPhone that clearly detail the components inside. In comparison to other phones, the iPhone generally has a brighter screen, a faster processor, more RAM, longer battery life, and far more internal storage. The iPhone also uses new 3G radio chips.
5/ Ownership and responsibility is directed at Corporate Apple...throwing a deaf ear to everything. Acknowledge the problems? Pledge to fix them? Show compassion? Remember that customers pay the bills??? The statutory rights you mention shouldn't be held up as an excuse to release a sub standard product.
This is the way Apple has always been. They rarely publicly acknowledge problems. It can frustrate people because it can seem Apple isn't listening but in truth they are listening and eventually issue a fix that resolves the problem.
6/ The Nano, to me (as a long time Ipod owner) feels very cheap and nasty, just my opinion though. It doesn't have the quality feel that APple seemingly tries to push.
The nano is Apple's best selling iPod. You are free to have your opinion but Apple is selling tens of millions of them. After nearly a year of their sale there have been no significant problems with them.
You start off with a rant about your experience with the iPhone.
This then spreads to problems found on other message boards.
Apparently the iPod Nano is awfull.
We have now degenerated into crap cheapo Chinese gadgets.
You have started repeating that mantra on other threads.... together with .....
The Zune is really better than the iPod.
Apple hardware is overpriced
You can build a better PC than a Mac Mini .....
All the while clearly stating that you own Apple products.
Tell us how we can really help you.
Archipellago, forgive me if you are just having a little vent against Apple, but this thread is beginning to get a bit trollish.
You start off with a rant about your experience with the iPhone.
This then spreads to problems found on other message boards.
Apparently the iPod Nano is awfull.
We have now degenerated into crap cheapo Chinese gadgets.
You have started repeating that mantra on other threads.... together with .....
The Zune is really better than the iPod.
Apple hardware is overpriced
You can build a better PC than a Mac Mini .....
All the while clearly stating that you own Apple products.
Tell us how we can really help you.
Game! Set! Match!
Perhaps it's just a mini-me version of John Dvorak in disguise?
Archipellago, forgive me if you are just having a little vent against Apple, but this thread is beginning to get a bit trollish.
You start off with a rant about your experience with the iPhone.
This then spreads to problems found on other message boards.
Apparently the iPod Nano is awfull.
We have now degenerated into crap cheapo Chinese gadgets.
You have started repeating that mantra on other threads.... together with .....
The Zune is really better than the iPod.
Apple hardware is overpriced
You can build a better PC than a Mac Mini .....
All the while clearly stating that you own Apple products.
Tell us how we can really help you.
No trolling I was a big Apple fan, in some ways still am, the failings with Mobile Me and the Iphone have opened my eyes to be honest. It is a vent I guess.
I bought into the 'Vista sucks' press with lots of other Mac heads..but you know what? With the right hardware it doesn't....it really doesn't! I'm shocked and surprised .... and on the same hardware Kubuntu absolutely flies! Funny a power failure mid session on Leopard hosed my system completely..wouldn't even boot! I recreated it with Vista....no problem, came straight back!
I only started looking on forums after the problems I have had, was never aware of the range of issues until now.... I am genuinely surprised.
The Nano isn't really awful, its stylish but to me looks and feels tacky and cheap, the tactile feedback makes it seem like a grade b product...certainly compared to some Creative products I've seen/used. My wife has a Nano...does its job but it does not have that premium feel for a premium product.
The Ipod in general..from a sound quality point of view is average, I didn't think that was news, sorry. The original Zune which was a Toshiba gigabeat was much better for sound but it was not alone.
Apple hardware in the main is overpriced...again I didn' think that was news. You paid for the 'it just works' and quality feel.... that seems to have gone a bit now though.
the mac mini/PC comparison wasn't direct..all I was saying is that for the money you need to spend on a base MM it is possible to build a great 'PC' that will run Vista great and be at LEAST as stable as an OSX machine. Vista problems eminate from cheap hardware..a bit llike iPhone problems!
I still own some Apple products but will get rid of them all soon, they are no longer worth the investment.
help me? You can't I don't want/need it. This is a forum for stories and opinions and experiences, sorry if I offended you. I'll reply to the others and then not post in this thread again.
Hope your Apple experience is better than mine.!
No trolling I was a big Apple fan, in some ways still am, the failings with Mobile Me and the Iphone have opened my eyes to be honest. It is a vent I guess.
Hope your Apple experience is better than mine.
Sorry to hear about your problems. Curious though you did you not mention any attempt to contact Apple or your wireless carrier and give them a chance to resolve the problems.
You look like a troll when you jump into wild accusations that are purely opinionated with no factual evidence to support.
No trolling I was a big Apple fan
And now your not. All in the space of a four weeks!
I bought into the 'Vista sucks' press with lots of other Mac heads..
Microsoft is not concerned with the "Mac heads" that thinks Vista sucks. It's the millions of XP heads and Corporate IT heads that's the problem.
Apple hardware in the main is overpriced... (big snip) ....... Vista problems eminate from cheap hardware.
Ah, that's much better Arch. Perhaps you are seeing the big picture now?
I still own some Apple products but will get rid of them all soon,
Or then again ... perhaps not!
I'll reply to the others and then not post in this thread again
I'll miss you.
To be fair many of us do make attempts to cite credible sources and facts to back up our opinions.
This would be a good place to cite another source to help what you feel. Are their any studies that reveal consumers having less tolerance for mistakes companies may make?
The American Customer Satisfaction Index has found Apple to be at the top of consumer satisfaction in the PC industry.
ChangeWave Research has found the iPhone to top US mobile phone satisfaction.
No its not common to hear about phones being broken in the box. So far I haven't heard of that being a common occurence with the iPhone. Simply because its not common to hear about does not mean it does not happen. I would bet someone who works in electronics would say that some items are broken in shipment. You are looking to place blame of anything that happens as negligence on Apple's part.
The reception issues are believed to be with software and the Infinion chip. Its not as though this is unheard of other mobile manufacturers have had issues with 3G that had to be resolved.
Its not different. Dell's customers weren't dealing with Sony they were dealing with Dell. It was Dell's responsibility to fix the situation and leave its customers satisfied.
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. These tear downs only look at raw materials and make an educated guess. But they leave out the many other expenses.
-The cost of research and development on the iPhone since 2004.
-Apple bought a company called FingerWorks for its touch screen technology.
-A percentage of each iPhone sale goes to Skyhook for its assisted GPS service.
-Apple designed and maintains the operating system, App Store, and in house apps.
This all cost above the $100 in materials for the phone itself.
How can you qualify it a cheap product if you don't even know the components that its made of?
People have done tear downs of the iPhone that clearly detail the components inside. In comparison to other phones, the iPhone generally has a brighter screen, a faster processor, more RAM, longer battery life, and far more internal storage. The iPhone also uses new 3G radio chips.
This is the way Apple has always been. They rarely publicly acknowledge problems. It can frustrate people because it can seem Apple isn't listening but in truth they are listening and eventually issue a fix that resolves the problem.
The nano is Apple's best selling iPod. You are free to have your opinion but Apple is selling tens of millions of them. After nearly a year of their sale there have been no significant problems with them.
well as dear Oscar used to say...lies, damn lies and statistics!!
Without trying to be offensive or stereotypical it probably isn't a good idea for true accuracy purposes to ask Americans about an American company. Luckily I don't live in the US. Also when comparing Apple to Dell, HP etc. it isn't fair becuase it turns into an Apple versus MS, OSX versus Windows question. It is very hard to divorce the difference between thehardware company and software company (dell etc.) compared to APple who make it all.
Regardless of that I am surprised to see how close it is and how much Apple has dropped year on year. Still if you were to compare PC sales where the dollar volume is equal to the minimum amount you need to spend on a base Mac would you get a different result? It is a fairer comparison, problems with MS based systems is poor, cheap hardware...which unfortunately is the volume market.
Its a similar story for iPhone satisfaction. No doubt that when it works its good. Interstingly there is no time frame in that chart. I suspect that it is based mainly on non 3g iphones...in which case I agree...it was a much better product.
Any satisfaction survey invloving Apple is pointless IMO anyway. You have the 'cult of Mac' factor which is unexplained and doesn't apply to any other tech co. Its the secret club feeling. Surveyers don't want to respond negatively to any club they are a member of cos they feel it somehow makes them look silly. Apple is lucky to have such a following but to me all surveys of this type need taking with a large pinch of salt. There are people on here who have gone thru multiple 3g units who would still answer Apple are 'great' in a similar survey.
If the 3g infinion chip is defective Apple would need to issue a recall..which is why they won't 'find' it defective. They will quietly change it in future revisions (may have been done already) and effectively shaft a huge portion of their customers..... these customers would still speak positive about Apple!!!
Dell fixed it.... Apple may well not...??
Regardless of the costs invloved, there has never been a phone that is such a cash cow for both the manufacturer and networks. Remember the US is the cheapest place to have an Iphone, over here it cost (min) £639 ($1200 aprox) ....which to me makes APple responsible for making it fault free....you are paying the most money you should have the best...... but its not.
I assume there are cheap components in the iPhone based on reports in the media and the fact that it is fault ridden. to me its a simple equation! new 3g radio chips? lol that special batch that doesn't work??
Apple listening? maybe we'll see. They could acknowledge the problems at least!
no significant problems reported maybe.... does it look and feel like a premium product at a premium price?? No way.
Sorry to hear about your problems. Curious though you did you not mention any attempt to contact Apple or your wireless carrier and give them a chance to resolve the problems.
You look like a troll when you jump into wild accusations that are purely opinionated with no factual evidence to support.
Well I established it wasn't the network by using other handsets.
I have a good friend who works for Apple retail, one of their guys had a look at it and pronounced it A1. Still not happy so I sold it... why throw good time after bad?
And now your not. All in the space of a four weeks!
Microsoft is not concerned with the "Mac heads" that thinks Vista sucks. It's the millions of XP heads and Corporate IT heads that's the problem.
Ah, that's much better Arch. Perhaps you are seeing the big picture now?
Or then again ... perhaps not!
I'll miss you.
well my 'down' on Apple started with Leopard, then I started using Kubu and Vista and I guess the 3g issue (s) were the final straw(s)
http://valleywag.com/tech/great-mome...aks-323342.php
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=90162
guess you were right about Apple!..class
So you are not trolling yet :
You can't trust Americans to fill out a survey.
Mac owners are to be trusted even less!
and now you don't like the behaviour of certain Apple executives.
Of course there was always going to be more to it than your "expert" opinion that it was a hardware issue.
So you are not trolling yet :
You can't trust Americans to fill out a survey.
Mac owners are to be trusted even less!
and now you don't like the behaviour of certain Apple executives.
no i don't trust americans full stop, you get the leader you deserve!
Mac owners tend to be blinded by the 'cult of mac' I know I was one!
No, I don't trust any corporate executives regardless of nationality! When push comes to shove they all lie.
looks like there is more to it!
Of course there was always going to be more to it than your "expert" opinion that it was a hardware issue.
sorry I was replying to Tenobell saying it was a small isolated issue, clearly its not!
Well I established it wasn't the network by using other handsets.
I have a good friend who works for Apple retail, one of their guys had a look at it and pronounced it A1. Still not happy so I sold it... why throw good time after bad?
Sorry to hear about your problems. All I can say is that the list of people I know in true life getting iPhones is growing. Other than the 3G issue, so far I haven't heard of anyone with the extremely severe problems people have been complaining about on the internet.
sorry I was replying to Tenobell saying it was a small isolated issue, clearly its not!
I don't recall saying anything was a small isolated issue.
The AI article you linked to essentially says people speculating on where the 3G issues stem from are all wrong, its not a hardware problem.
Sorry to hear about your problems. All I can say is that the list of people I know in true life getting iPhones is growing. Other than the 3G issue, so far I haven't heard of anyone with the extremely severe problems people have been complaining about on the internet.
I don't recall saying anything was a small isolated issue.
The AI article you linked to essentially says people speculating on where the 3G issues stem from are all wrong, its not a hardware problem.
1/ Cheers, no probs. I don't know of anyone with a RROD xbox 360 either but that WAS an issue!. Guess we'll never know. Your circle of friends with 3g's (large as it may be) is possibly less representative than the wider internet. Even the Apple dedicated sites are reporting it as a bigger issue now.
The '3g' issue is bigger than the rest due to the ENTIRE point of going from iphone1 to iphone2 is 3G!!
2/ you said in an earlier post... "The problem is that you are stacking the deck with negative stories. Without consideration for the fact that these are possibly a small minority of people having problems and are the most vocal. The far majority of people who are not having problems would have no reason to complain. I would also wager some number of these anonymous complainers are Apple/iPhone haters telling tall tales."
which I interpreted as 'small and isolated'..on reflection I still think thats fair. Sorry if you don't. Its a bigger issue than you were implying it was.
the origin of the 3g issue is unknown as far as I'm aware, some saying hardware, some software some saying a combo of the two. Time will tell but I suspect we'll never really know. Either way it reflects badly on Apple's QC and testing.
1/ Cheers, no probs. I don't know of anyone with a RROD xbox 360 either but that WAS an issue!. Guess we'll never know. Your circle of friends with 3g's (large as it may be) is possibly less representative than the wider internet. Even the Apple dedicated sites are reporting it as a bigger issue now.
How are iPhone users I know less representative of the wider internet? The only way I can think of is that the people I know actually use the iPhone, while the wider internet can be highly questionable.
I don't know how much attention you've been giving to Apple news. Every time there is something wrong with an Apple product no matter how big or small electronic interest sites make a huge deal about it. This is not at all the first.
which I interpreted as 'small and isolated'..on reflection I still think thats fair. Sorry if you don't. Its a bigger issue than you were implying it was.
The point of what I was saying was not to imply how big or small the problem was. My point is that its impossible to gain a real assessment of the problem from a list of anonymous people complaining. Even more so when that list is likely tainted with people who do not own an iPhone and whose interest is in spreading false information.
the origin of the 3g issue is unknown as far as I'm aware, some saying hardware, some software some saying a combo of the two.
The 3G issue is only unknown to us. Between Apple, Infinion, and the wireless carriers they will all figure it out.
Here is some possible leaked info into the matter....
What I was told was that 90% of the disconnects are initiated inside the phone, which would exonerate AT&T. Most of the disconnects are being generated by crashes in the driver code for the 3G chip, which comes from the chip vendor, not something Apple written and outside of Apple's direct control. Complicating this -- even though Apple is handing over "here is the bug, here is the fix, update the driver", the turnaround from the vendor on driver updates is on the order of 2-3 months. Said, um, lack of urgency not exactly making people inside the projects happy.
Time will tell but I suspect we'll never really know. Either way it reflects badly on Apple's QC and testing.
When you say things like this it shows your lack of knowledge about computers and electronics. Every electronics manufacturer has some type of problem at some point. No one intends to ship faulty electronics but it happens to everyone.
Software can contain millions of lines of code and thousands of moving parts. Its impossible for the manufacturer to find all of the potential problems until they have the product out into the wider market and being used.