Yeah, that's nothing like Apple partnering with McDonalds and Nike, and using Chinese labor.
It's not anything like the last two. The Nike partnership was crating between two seprate products to form a new one. Chinese labour is just common and typical of any mass produced item, especially electronics.
Only McDonald's iTunes give-away is comparable as they are both marketing stunts to drum up business.
Battered and bruised by a long-running advertising campaign on the part of rival Apple, Inc., Microsoft Corp. is turning to sitcom star and world renowned comedian Jerry Seinfeld to help clean up the public perception of its Windows Vista operating system.
Citing "people close to the situation," the Wall Street Journal reports that the Redmond-based software giant will pay Seinfeld a cool $10 million to serve as a pitchman alongside company chairman Bill Gates in a new series of ads that will begin airing on September 4th.
Ironically, the computers featured in the 9-year situation comedy Seinfeld, for which the comedian payed a semi-fictional version of himself, were always Macs.
And how much time have you spent on Vista? I have seen so many lies brandished here. People talking about the "Blue screen of death" and such things, which haven't happened since Windows 98. My Vista (or XP) for that matter have never crashed on me in that manner.
Well, this is just perfect. At the exact moment Li Ning was rounding the lip of the Bird's Nest during the amazing torch-lighting climax, someone snapped this photo of our good friend the BSOD nestled among the Nest's steel twigs.
And how much time have you spent on Vista? I have seen so many lies brandished here. People talking about the "Blue screen of death" and such things, which haven't happened since Windows 98. My Vista (or XP) for that matter have never crashed on me in that manner.
As to your other point, I would be able to install Mac OS on my PC if Apple weren't so restrictive and closed off. As it is, I was forced by them to spend 500 euros on hardware I don't even need! Luckily for Mac people, Microsoft do not take this stance, so you're able to run Vista or XP on your machines.
Apple's control freak, "do what you're told" attitude makes them far worse than Microsoft in my opinion in the ethical stakes. They constantly take consumers for a ride (more examples being iPhone lock down and carrier monopolies), which I can understand because they are a corporation and will get away with whatever they can.
What really gets to me though are all the Apple Fan Boys that defend them for doing it! Seriously, you people need to get a grip on the propaganda you are spreading.
You do realise the difference in business' here? Apple make computers, they need to sell computers to make a profit (well now iPods and iPhones help a bit ) MacOSX is part of what helps Apple sell computers. They sell a computer as a package. The experience of OSX is tied into having a Mac. Bootcamp simply means that Mac's now represent a potential market for Windows (and better yet a market that may end up paying full retail rather then getting either OEM or Upgrade copies).
Microsoft are a software company, they sell software (speaking from the PC side of things, I know they make peripherals, consoles and portable media players as well). They have no interest in where you install your software (as long as it is only one machine per license, and of course in line with the EULA), they just want to sell software to you. Probably the closest equivalent to Apple would be to say they should release the Xbox 360 OS so that you can install it on your Playstation 3 (ignoring here of course that the two platforms have quite different architectures).
None of this has anything to do with ethics. Deciding that you want to sell billions of copies of software and leave making and selling the hardware to other companies is not an intrinsically more ethical decision that deciding you want to make an integrated platform of hardware and software. If you prefer Microsoft's approach then go with Vista, be happy! I happen to like my integrated platform, where the OS is made by the company who made the computer. It just works for me.
As for the ads, good luck to them. I mean I never quite got his comedy, but I know a lot of my friends did, and my demographic (late 20's to early 30's, dual income, no-kids) is not a bad demographic to pitch to. Personally I think that it is good that Microsoft can convince themselves that the only problem with Vista is the public perception of it.
Apple should quickly hire Jason Alexander (aka George Costanza) and replace John Hodgman to be the new PC guy!!! Could you imagine the series of counter-ads to Microsoft?
No. Let Apple keep him as the neurotic George Costanza holding a Windows Vista OS box, walking into the NY Apple store to get help at the Genius Bar about uploading Vista on his Mac and have him "bump" into Steve Jobs and have Steve do a cameo and have it like when "George Costanza" had to meet Yankees owner George Steinbrenner! I can just close my eyes and see it all. What a hoot!
It's not anything like the last two. The Nike partnership was crating between two seprate products to form a new one. Chinese labour is just common and typical of any mass produced item, especially electronics.
Only McDonald's iTunes give-away is comparable as they are both marketing stunts to drum up business.
You missed the point. The author was accusing Seinfeld of selling out his principles by shilling for MS, yet failed to acknowledge how Jobs/Apple plays up the image of being the great benevolent corporate entity, yet partners up with scummy corporations and totalitarian regimes.
You missed the point. The author was accusing Seinfeld of selling out his principles by shilling for MS, yet failed to acknowledge how Jobs/Apple plays up the image of being the great benevolent corporate entity, yet partners up with scummy corporations and totalitarian regimes.
You can't have it both ways.
Please give me an example of Apple "playing up the image of being the great benevolent corporate identity". When I think of Apple, I think of computers. OS, iPods, ITMS, iPhones. Never in all my years of owning Macs, which is less than 20 years, has Apple, through it's marketing and advertising campaign, ever convinced me of anything but being a business [with cool products] and not that of Mother Theresa.
Seinfeld can do as he wishes. I do not begrudge him for making a buck or ten million. I would never say he is selling out even if his show accepted product placements - is that what you mean when you say Apple partnered up with scummy corporations ala tv producers and television production companies, et. al.?
Apple may have the better OS, but Windows has more mondo-wealthy eccentric 50 year old inscrutables like Seinfeld and Gates, not to mention Ballmer!
For weirdness that rests on a foundation of gobs of cold hard money, Windows doesn't need to ask Apple what time it is. Seinfeld and Gates both have so much money!!
The marketing company they've hired were the geniuses behind an anti-smoking PSA campaign that was so offensive most stations that received the CDs tossed them. The premise was "passing gas" -- yes, they went there -- referring to second hand smoke by the phrase reserved for ... well, you know.
Great choice, Mr. Softie. As usual, I sincerely hope you rebound, though.
And I totally agree with GordonComstock's post. An ad campaign isn't just about how creative an agency is, but about how much the client trusts the agency to execute their vision of the brand or product. Microsoft is a thoroughly meddlesome client with a highly muddled portfolio of brands that is difficult to distill into concepts that are easy to communicate. Believe me, I've witnessed it firsthand.
And don't get me started about CP+B, whose work I think is mostly overrated.
Sounds like you know the ad game score.
How about this for a concept: "Subservient Bill"
(google "Subservient Chicken" if you're in the dark)
Haha, I love Seinfeld (the show). I don't get the hate! I'd say 99% of the people out there would have trouble turning down millions to appear in a few simple commercials.
And how much time have you spent on Vista? I have seen so many lies brandished here. People talking about the "Blue screen of death" and such things, which haven't happened since Windows 98. My Vista (or XP) for that matter have never crashed on me in that manner.
I work for a company that sold its soul to MS back in the 90s. Office, Active Directory, Exchange, Windows, you name it. I can assure you, BSoDs happen on XP, and yet, all of my executives have nothing but absolute loathing for Vista. It's not that they don't want to move to it, they want me to remove from their computers entirely, and one of my executives asked if he could get a MacBook Pro instead. Vista may be slightly more stable in that it doesn't BSoD, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have other problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutcho
What really gets to me though are all the Apple Fan Boys that defend them for doing it! Seriously, you people need to get a grip on the propaganda you are spreading.
Propaganda... You didn't watch MS come in and basically bribe your company's leaders into going for an all MS setup. The corporate world is completely different, and where most of the problems with MS stem from. They're finding that they're losing ground in that arena, and they're scared. And they should be, considering that they're 0-for-2 on their major releases for this generation of software (the other being Office 2007, which inspires even more hate in my company than Vista).
MS should have gone with a Martha Stewart, Bill Gates commercial. She shows him how to make fudge. He points out that Vista can make better "fudge" than OS X. She comments "You Mean FUD don't you? That's a good thing."
Maybe I'm showing my age, but I find it hard to believe there's anybody too young to know about Jerry Seinfeld. Of course, I was a big fan before he had the show, saw every one of the shows, and still watch the reruns even though I know most of them by heart. I am sometimes surprised because I've forgotten which three storylines went together in each show and how they were intertwined. (Anybody else would have gotten three shows out of them. Not bad for a "show about nothing.")
All that being said, I think this is a really stupid move. Advertising bits have a way of sticking around for a long time. To pick one at random from 20 years before the Seinfeld show that anyone would recognize:
Seinfeld look-alike saying: "I'm not a Mac User, but I play one on TV."
And, "Windows, not Walls?" Even worse. I wish I could credit the person who left this comment on MacUser, but they were anonymous: "Without walls and fences, nobody would need Windows or Gates."
Firstly, Vista has been proved to be a poor product in the marketplace. The horse has bolted, too late to lock the stable door. Shoving an expensive marketing campaign down everyone's throats is not going to change opinions, its likely to polarise them even further and neither does a marketing campaign change Vista as a product.
Secondly, there's a lot of talk of 'no compromises'. Does Ballmer realise that providing the Mac-like experience involves making compromises at a design level. he thinks the MS philosophy is one of choice, but that's BS, it's philosophy is one of laziness and solving problem through focus-testing and statistical analysis.
Fundamentally, providing that complete end-to-end experience (I won't call it narrow, because it isn't) involves making decisions and not lumping a dozen teams worth of code together and hoping that no one will care about how badly it all works. back in the day, when we were all happy that our machines just did spreadsheets, sure who cared that the UI sucked, but now people are demanding more than just features and brute force.
MS have failed to show any sign of showing they have the wherewithal to tackle these fundamental issues and I can't see them solving them any time in the future.
Maybe I'm showing my age, but I find it hard to believe there's anybody too young to know about Jerry Seinfeld...
Exactly. All the folks going on about how the Seinfeld series is dated have nothing but their own limited experience to back them up.
The fact is, MS is a giant impersonal corporation and they approach these things in a business like way. There is a list (actually mentioned in some articles on this today), of popular people and brands that they consult. It doesn't matter what anyone here thinks about Seinfeld, the point is he is about 19th on that list in terms of name recognition. That alone makes him worth 10 million and is the reason they picked him. Presumably if he refused they would go to number 20.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist
... And, "Windows, not Walls?" Even worse. I wish I could credit the person who left this comment on MacUser, but they were anonymous: "Without walls and fences, nobody would need Windows or Gates."
I was waiting for someone to mention this also.
The slogan tells you where they are going to go with the campaign and this "Windows, not Walls" slogan is seriously stupid. It implies that MS will go after the "Apple is a walled Garden" theme which is hardly a strong argument for Windows even if it were true. The worlds most bloated, in-your-face, stops-you-from-doing-stuff OS is going to argue that the partially open source, open standards OS-X is somehow a barrier to getting things done? And that the way to get around these "walls" is to go for Windows?
Talk about a reversal of reality. This is laughable. Things don't become so just because someone says they are.
Comments
Yeah, that's nothing like Apple partnering with McDonalds and Nike, and using Chinese labor.
It's not anything like the last two. The Nike partnership was crating between two seprate products to form a new one. Chinese labour is just common and typical of any mass produced item, especially electronics.
Only McDonald's iTunes give-away is comparable as they are both marketing stunts to drum up business.
Pull your head out of your a**.
Why must you always attempt to be abusive?
Battered and bruised by a long-running advertising campaign on the part of rival Apple, Inc., Microsoft Corp. is turning to sitcom star and world renowned comedian Jerry Seinfeld to help clean up the public perception of its Windows Vista operating system.
Citing "people close to the situation," the Wall Street Journal reports that the Redmond-based software giant will pay Seinfeld a cool $10 million to serve as a pitchman alongside company chairman Bill Gates in a new series of ads that will begin airing on September 4th.
Ironically, the computers featured in the 9-year situation comedy Seinfeld, for which the comedian payed a semi-fictional version of himself, were always Macs.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
I guess it just shows that anyone can be bought to say anything for the right amount of $$$.
I love how these forums go way off topic and degrade to hair pulling and name calling.
And how much time have you spent on Vista? I have seen so many lies brandished here. People talking about the "Blue screen of death" and such things, which haven't happened since Windows 98. My Vista (or XP) for that matter have never crashed on me in that manner.
So, apparently you missed this:
http://gizmodo.com/5035456/blue-scre...torch-lighting
Well, this is just perfect. At the exact moment Li Ning was rounding the lip of the Bird's Nest during the amazing torch-lighting climax, someone snapped this photo of our good friend the BSOD nestled among the Nest's steel twigs.
And how much time have you spent on Vista? I have seen so many lies brandished here. People talking about the "Blue screen of death" and such things, which haven't happened since Windows 98. My Vista (or XP) for that matter have never crashed on me in that manner.
As to your other point, I would be able to install Mac OS on my PC if Apple weren't so restrictive and closed off. As it is, I was forced by them to spend 500 euros on hardware I don't even need! Luckily for Mac people, Microsoft do not take this stance, so you're able to run Vista or XP on your machines.
Apple's control freak, "do what you're told" attitude makes them far worse than Microsoft in my opinion in the ethical stakes. They constantly take consumers for a ride (more examples being iPhone lock down and carrier monopolies), which I can understand because they are a corporation and will get away with whatever they can.
What really gets to me though are all the Apple Fan Boys that defend them for doing it! Seriously, you people need to get a grip on the propaganda you are spreading.
You do realise the difference in business' here? Apple make computers, they need to sell computers to make a profit (well now iPods and iPhones help a bit
Microsoft are a software company, they sell software (speaking from the PC side of things, I know they make peripherals, consoles and portable media players as well). They have no interest in where you install your software (as long as it is only one machine per license, and of course in line with the EULA), they just want to sell software to you. Probably the closest equivalent to Apple would be to say they should release the Xbox 360 OS so that you can install it on your Playstation 3 (ignoring here of course that the two platforms have quite different architectures).
None of this has anything to do with ethics. Deciding that you want to sell billions of copies of software and leave making and selling the hardware to other companies is not an intrinsically more ethical decision that deciding you want to make an integrated platform of hardware and software. If you prefer Microsoft's approach then go with Vista, be happy! I happen to like my integrated platform, where the OS is made by the company who made the computer. It just works for me.
As for the ads, good luck to them. I mean I never quite got his comedy, but I know a lot of my friends did, and my demographic (late 20's to early 30's, dual income, no-kids) is not a bad demographic to pitch to. Personally I think that it is good that Microsoft can convince themselves that the only problem with Vista is the public perception of it.
Apple should quickly hire Jason Alexander (aka George Costanza) and replace John Hodgman to be the new PC guy!!! Could you imagine the series of counter-ads to Microsoft?
No. Let Apple keep him as the neurotic George Costanza holding a Windows Vista OS box, walking into the NY Apple store to get help at the Genius Bar about uploading Vista on his Mac and have him "bump" into Steve Jobs and have Steve do a cameo and have it like when "George Costanza" had to meet Yankees owner George Steinbrenner! I can just close my eyes and see it all. What a hoot!
It's not anything like the last two. The Nike partnership was crating between two seprate products to form a new one. Chinese labour is just common and typical of any mass produced item, especially electronics.
Only McDonald's iTunes give-away is comparable as they are both marketing stunts to drum up business.
You missed the point. The author was accusing Seinfeld of selling out his principles by shilling for MS, yet failed to acknowledge how Jobs/Apple plays up the image of being the great benevolent corporate entity, yet partners up with scummy corporations and totalitarian regimes.
You can't have it both ways.
Why must you always attempt to be abusive?
Doesn't know better. That's what I gather from the posts I've seen.
Lets take a chill pill and love one another.
Peace
You missed the point. The author was accusing Seinfeld of selling out his principles by shilling for MS, yet failed to acknowledge how Jobs/Apple plays up the image of being the great benevolent corporate entity, yet partners up with scummy corporations and totalitarian regimes.
You can't have it both ways.
Please give me an example of Apple "playing up the image of being the great benevolent corporate identity". When I think of Apple, I think of computers. OS, iPods, ITMS, iPhones. Never in all my years of owning Macs, which is less than 20 years, has Apple, through it's marketing and advertising campaign, ever convinced me of anything but being a business [with cool products] and not that of Mother Theresa.
Seinfeld can do as he wishes. I do not begrudge him for making a buck or ten million. I would never say he is selling out even if his show accepted product placements - is that what you mean when you say Apple partnered up with scummy corporations ala tv producers and television production companies, et. al.?
For weirdness that rests on a foundation of gobs of cold hard money, Windows doesn't need to ask Apple what time it is. Seinfeld and Gates both have so much money!!
Great choice, Mr. Softie. As usual, I sincerely hope you rebound, though.
And I totally agree with GordonComstock's post. An ad campaign isn't just about how creative an agency is, but about how much the client trusts the agency to execute their vision of the brand or product. Microsoft is a thoroughly meddlesome client with a highly muddled portfolio of brands that is difficult to distill into concepts that are easy to communicate. Believe me, I've witnessed it firsthand.
And don't get me started about CP+B, whose work I think is mostly overrated.
Sounds like you know the ad game score.
How about this for a concept: "Subservient Bill"
(google "Subservient Chicken" if you're in the dark)
HA!!
gc
And how much time have you spent on Vista? I have seen so many lies brandished here. People talking about the "Blue screen of death" and such things, which haven't happened since Windows 98. My Vista (or XP) for that matter have never crashed on me in that manner.
I work for a company that sold its soul to MS back in the 90s. Office, Active Directory, Exchange, Windows, you name it. I can assure you, BSoDs happen on XP, and yet, all of my executives have nothing but absolute loathing for Vista. It's not that they don't want to move to it, they want me to remove from their computers entirely, and one of my executives asked if he could get a MacBook Pro instead. Vista may be slightly more stable in that it doesn't BSoD, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have other problems.
What really gets to me though are all the Apple Fan Boys that defend them for doing it! Seriously, you people need to get a grip on the propaganda you are spreading.
Propaganda... You didn't watch MS come in and basically bribe your company's leaders into going for an all MS setup. The corporate world is completely different, and where most of the problems with MS stem from. They're finding that they're losing ground in that arena, and they're scared. And they should be, considering that they're 0-for-2 on their major releases for this generation of software (the other being Office 2007, which inspires even more hate in my company than Vista).
Besides, doesn't she have current TV show?
All that being said, I think this is a really stupid move. Advertising bits have a way of sticking around for a long time. To pick one at random from 20 years before the Seinfeld show that anyone would recognize:
Seinfeld look-alike saying: "I'm not a Mac User, but I play one on TV."
And, "Windows, not Walls?" Even worse. I wish I could credit the person who left this comment on MacUser, but they were anonymous: "Without walls and fences, nobody would need Windows or Gates."
Firstly, Vista has been proved to be a poor product in the marketplace. The horse has bolted, too late to lock the stable door. Shoving an expensive marketing campaign down everyone's throats is not going to change opinions, its likely to polarise them even further and neither does a marketing campaign change Vista as a product.
Secondly, there's a lot of talk of 'no compromises'. Does Ballmer realise that providing the Mac-like experience involves making compromises at a design level. he thinks the MS philosophy is one of choice, but that's BS, it's philosophy is one of laziness and solving problem through focus-testing and statistical analysis.
Fundamentally, providing that complete end-to-end experience (I won't call it narrow, because it isn't) involves making decisions and not lumping a dozen teams worth of code together and hoping that no one will care about how badly it all works. back in the day, when we were all happy that our machines just did spreadsheets, sure who cared that the UI sucked, but now people are demanding more than just features and brute force.
MS have failed to show any sign of showing they have the wherewithal to tackle these fundamental issues and I can't see them solving them any time in the future.
Maybe I'm showing my age, but I find it hard to believe there's anybody too young to know about Jerry Seinfeld...
Exactly. All the folks going on about how the Seinfeld series is dated have nothing but their own limited experience to back them up.
The fact is, MS is a giant impersonal corporation and they approach these things in a business like way. There is a list (actually mentioned in some articles on this today), of popular people and brands that they consult. It doesn't matter what anyone here thinks about Seinfeld, the point is he is about 19th on that list in terms of name recognition. That alone makes him worth 10 million and is the reason they picked him. Presumably if he refused they would go to number 20.
... And, "Windows, not Walls?" Even worse. I wish I could credit the person who left this comment on MacUser, but they were anonymous: "Without walls and fences, nobody would need Windows or Gates."
I was waiting for someone to mention this also.
The slogan tells you where they are going to go with the campaign and this "Windows, not Walls" slogan is seriously stupid. It implies that MS will go after the "Apple is a walled Garden" theme which is hardly a strong argument for Windows even if it were true. The worlds most bloated, in-your-face, stops-you-from-doing-stuff OS is going to argue that the partially open source, open standards OS-X is somehow a barrier to getting things done? And that the way to get around these "walls" is to go for Windows?
Talk about a reversal of reality. This is laughable. Things don't become so just because someone says they are.