iPhone Software 2.1 to stifle open source copy-and-paste effort

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 42
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cleverboy View Post


    AGREED! PLEASE correct this article.



    Kasper wrote this 15 minutes ago to Virgil...



    Quote:

    I fixed Katie's article an hour ago. I addressed the issue almost immediately. Maybe your cache is still showing the initial revision.



  • Reply 22 of 42
    cut and paste will hopefully be added by apple - it would be a great add. A this point - I'm just hopeful that they do something about reception issues and battery life - ever since installing 2.02 - my battery gets to only 20% in less than 5 hours and this is with only moderate use... unfortunately, I'm out of the 30 day window so I can't return the device - but I plan to try....
  • Reply 23 of 42
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 1,813member
    off topic: Safari on the iPhone should be made to cache opened websites. It currently reloads the whole page every time I switch from one window to another. It should never have to reload open pages except when the user hits the reload button.
  • Reply 24 of 42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onceuponamac View Post


    cut and paste will hopefully be added by apple - it would be a great add. A this point - I'm just hopeful that they do something about reception issues and battery life - ever since installing 2.02 - my battery gets to only 20% in less than 5 hours and this is with only moderate use... unfortunately, I'm out of the 30 day window so I can't return the device - but I plan to try....



    Yeah I'm waiting for better battery life..... i'm working on this cool Stun Gun App.
  • Reply 25 of 42
    ktappektappe Posts: 759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gilles_deleuze View Post


    copy-paste should not be based on a hack. I'm sure Apple will implement something pretty soon.



    That's what people were saying 9 months ago.
  • Reply 26 of 42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ktappe View Post


    OK, so Apple should implement cut & paste, and THEN fix the security hole. It's their order of operations here that is going to irk a lot of people.



    Exactly WRONG. The "order" is that 2.1 was in beta, without the security problem, before OpenClip was even proposed. You should read the Gruber article. Here it is, for anyone too lazy to Google it:

    http://daringfireball.net/2008/08/ra...penclip_parade

    Quote:

    This is not accurate. It’s more like “slipping through a temporary loophole” than “no foul”.



    Quote:

    Not simply that no other application can write to, but which no other application can access. That this restriction is not yet enforced at a technical level (such as is the case with an app attempting to write outside its own sandbox) does not mean it’s permitted.



    And, indeed, in the 2.1b4 release of the iPhone OS, it is enforced. The OpenClip demo apps, which work as advertised on iPhone OS 2.0.2, do not work in the current 2.1 beta, because apps are no longer able to read or even see other apps’ sandboxes.3 To be clear, this change is clearly not in response to OpenClip; Apple began seeding the 2.1 betas with these tightened sandbox restrictions before OpenClip debuted, and the iPhone OS Programming Guide has stated all along that apps can’t “access” the contents of other sandboxes.



    DO YOUR RESEARCH.



    ~ CB
  • Reply 27 of 42
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onceuponamac View Post


    cut and paste will hopefully be added by apple - it would be a great add. A this point - I'm just hopeful that they do something about reception issues and battery life - ever since installing 2.02 - my battery gets to only 20% in less than 5 hours and this is with only moderate use... unfortunately, I'm out of the 30 day window so I can't return the device - but I plan to try....



    Apple has some great hints re battery life: http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html



    Great reception here and promising to get better. Maybe as these two article report, reception is not Apples doing as much as it it the carriers'. http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/0...-iphone-3.html and http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=444&a=440573



    Rogers has been great. EDGE ...126kbps 3G .... 1.411Mbps and apparently as they up the cap it will be even better.



    By the way, I got my bill the other day and my Data Usage is only 42 MBs for the first 3 week. Can't see how I will ever max 400 MBs let alone the 6 GBs got on the intro deal.



    Anybody else wish to disclose their actual usage, or am I right to presume that most of the folks that participate here don't have an iPhone in the first place?



    Oh, back to the article, can't for the life of me think of where I would need copy and paste on the iPhone to such a degree as to become so paranoid as some express here. Speaking for the dozen or so colleagues who also have an iPhone, this is one feature, or lack thereof, that has yet to be mentioned let alone a concern.
  • Reply 28 of 42
    i used just over 130,000 KB my first month - hard to imagine getting anything close to 6GB (although, we have unlimited data in my jurisdiction) unless they enable movie downloading via wireless v. wifi...
  • Reply 29 of 42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onceuponamac View Post


    i used just over 130,000 KB my first month - hard to imagine getting anything close to 6GB (although, we have unlimited data in my jurisdiction) unless they enable movie downloading via wireless v. wifi...



    Heh. I don't use a 'ton' of data compared to what people my age usually do, but I'm at 1.5GB for the first month, and I'll probably hit that agin this next month. If someone didn't have anything to do this Summer with the iPhone, 6 GB is entirely likely.
  • Reply 30 of 42
    +mimic+mimic Posts: 37member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Whatever, they should allow this kind of invention to continue. Especially because it comes from people who clearly love to use Apple products.



    Exactly! If this is a security issue, then Apple should work to allow this while maintaining security.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Matthew Yohe View Post


    "Apple executive remarked that copy-and-paste functionality on the iPhone remains a low priority. Millions of iPhone users worldwide don't agree with that stance,"



    Source?



    A Google search +Copy +Paste +iPhone finds under 1 million pages. I'm sure many do want copy and paste, but you can't just blindly say that millions don't agree without some source.



    I for one!
  • Reply 31 of 42
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ?MiMiC View Post


    Exactly! If this is a security issue, then Apple should work to allow this while maintaining security.



    How exactly do you secure a security hole while leaving it open?
  • Reply 32 of 42
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    Anybody else wish to disclose their actual usage, or am I right to presume that most of the folks that participate here don't have an iPhone in the first place?



    I felt I used the first iPhone regularly last year. When I switched to the new iPhone, I saw that over the past year I'd downloaded a whopping 3.5GB.
  • Reply 33 of 42
    emulatoremulator Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    How exactly do you secure a security hole while leaving it open?



    Hey, it's Apple; they can even do that. According to the millions of iPhone users, they invented 3G after all.
  • Reply 34 of 42
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    The initiative, dubbed OpenClip, was conceived by student developer Zac White earlier this month after an Apple executive remarked that copy-and-paste functionality on the iPhone remains a low priority.[/url][/c]



    Sensationalism reporting at it's best. Did Apple say that it would never, ever implement copy and paste into the iPhone?



    Low priority until what is achieved? Or is it low priority forever? Given the issues surrounding V2.0 one can see why copy and paste is a low priority at this time.



    Reporting half truths is irresponsible of you AI.
  • Reply 35 of 42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    can't for the life of me think of where I would need copy and paste on the iPhone to such a degree as to become so paranoid as some express here. Speaking for the dozen or so colleagues who also have an iPhone, this is one feature, or lack thereof, that has yet to be mentioned let alone a concern.



    It's not a deal-breaker, but there are plenty of everyday situations where a simple copy-paste would come in handy. Say, somebody emails you to meet her on Niwuwezijds Voorburgwal and you want to look the street up in Maps. Unless you speak Dutch or have photographic memory, you'll find yourself switching back and forth between the apps and cursing whoever considered copy-paste extraneous or low priority.
  • Reply 36 of 42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kasper View Post


    I fixed Katie's article an hour ago. I addressed the issue almost immediately. Maybe your cache is still showing the initial revision.

    K



    The problem for me, is that I read the original article, and even "immediately" beggars an "UPDATED:" notation, especially when the title of the article continues to give the false impression that the 2.1 update will "stifle open source copy-and-paste effort", when it would be much more accurate to say that the 2.1 update will "pose a challenge to the open source copy-and-paste effort". To "stifle" something isn't a passive action like what we have here.



    The reason why this bugs me, is that people count on sites like this to give them accurate information AND impressions, and I think its absolutely great when those impressions are accurate. One of the reasons I don't read Gizmodo much, is because they have a tendency to be more "sensationalistic" in how they portray stories. Apple Insider has been much more analytical, and that's why I like it... and where I see an excellent mark of distinction.



    Much like Gruber, I immediately found OpenClip's assertion regarding a "shared area" very curious, considering that seemed to defeat the purpose of sandboxing each application (application interchangeability being the main reason an office suite isn't practical yet). I didn't have the background to dig into the code or find a clear description of what it was doing, but verifying the long term viability of such a "shared area" sounded like a huge priority before engaging in substantive development.



    It's looking like this was more a developer gaff than any intentional action on Apple's part to "stifle" the 3rd party development of copy and paste. The "Address Book" method also sounds dubious at this point. I'm curious if anyone has thought to use a WebKit instance to store copy/paste info in a client-side database? That seems like an extremely viable and very sturdy avenue to build on. Any clientside HTML would have the same domain and thereby the same access to the database created and viewable through the iPhone's "Settings" area, like Google Translate's database is.



    ~ CB
  • Reply 37 of 42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    The initiative, dubbed OpenClip, was conceived by student developer Zac White earlier this month after an Apple executive remarked that copy-and-paste functionality on the iPhone remains a low priority. Many iPhone users worldwide don't agree with that stance, however, and often single out a lack of the feature as one of the handset's most glaring omissions.



    I also want to point out another inaccuracy in the article that still remains. Copy & Paste does not "remain a low priority" for Apple. This is more "creating" of the news. The paraphrased quote from Joswiak that this is supposedly derived from says:

    Quote:

    Why isn’t there cut and paste? Apple has a priority list of features, and they got as far as they could down that list with this model, Joswiak said. In other words, they don’t have anything against cut and paste. They just judged other things to be more important.



    Which means, we don't know WHERE copy & paste is relatively on Apple's list of "to dos". We don't know if its HIGH, MEDIUM, or LOW. We just know that it hasn't been completed yet, but that Apple is aware of the request. Back in January, an Apple representative had allegedly been tapped for info by SvenonTech, and had said:

    Quote:

    Well, I hunted someone down at Macworld to give me the answers and after a long search and pass off after pass off from Apple employee to Apple employee, I finally got an answer. The deal is, Apple is aware of the desire for this option and it is working on it in the labs as we speak. The trouble it is having is implementation. How to easily call up a copy or cut option and then the paste action.



    John Gruber also noted that it seemed very reasonable to be an implementation related issue and not simply a "low priority" dismissal of the need.



    The reason its important not to cede this point, is that Apple is known to work very hard on its interface issues, and generally arrives at an implementation that is at once uniform and deeply considered for its unintended impact. We know from various reports that Apple had been working on a useable model for their iPhone SDK shortly after the iPhone's launch. Reading all the quotes from Apple, "Web Apps" was always one level of a multi-prong strategy for what Apple wanted to promote. --When Jobs finally made his announcement, it was characterized as "giving in" even though even Erica Sadun, from TUAW had noted how accessible (while rough and unfinished) the system was to program.



    Unlike the "half-ass and ship it" or "inconsistency city" mentality that other phone makers have employed I can appreciate that Apple seems to be concentrating on creating as secure and consistent an interface for developers, as they are for consumers. I'm still a little disappointed that Microsoft's "Deep Fish", which seemed to be so much of what people wanted to see... never actually got out of the "Technical Preview" stage, and was recently... and finally killed off. It does however show, that companies like Microsoft and Apple can work very hard on things... that in the end, may never be truly acknowledged for the sweat equity put into it.



    Recently, Apple's removal of "Push Notifications" from the latest beta builds of the iPhone OS, was reported in some circles as some form of "abandonment" of the promise to provide the service.

    Quote:

    Apple provides little explanation for the removal and says only that the notification code has been pulled for "further development" inside the company -- with no mention of whether it will reappear in a future beta.



    Taking the service out of the beta version puts non-Apple developers at a temporary loss, making it impractical for them to further development of new apps and updates that will depend on live, always-on data until the feature is returned to these handsets.



    The last sentence seems to be struggling to decide whether:



    a.) Apple is going back on its promise to provide the feature. b.) Having the feature appear in betas only to be recently removed from a new beta, is of serious concern to non-Apple developers. c.) Having the feature's architecture reworked affects present concerns for the development community.



    I'm thinking "none of the above". The context of this update, to me... would be served by knowing whether there were growing problems borne out in the existing implementation, whether the existing implementations were vestigial or somewhat fully working features, or at the very least... much more context regarding whether Apple has played "pick-a-boo" with important publicly announced new features before in their beta periods. Also, because "notification" relates to Mobile Me, it would have been nice to highlight Apple's problems with that rollout, and note that overhauling the architecture of the Push Notify system might also relate to the appointment of Eddy Cue to head up (in Job's words) "all of our Internet services" (iTunes, App Store, and MobileMe).



    Yet... the article seemed to focus more on the idea of Apple taking something away, instead of giving insight into the workings of the beast (something Ars Technica seems to do a good job at on a regular basis, and Apple Insiders In-Depth series have been excellent for).



    Wordy criticism, I know... but if it helps to keep AI on its toes, hopefully its a help.



    ~ CB
  • Reply 38 of 42
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,215member
    The Pasteboard Server for the iPhone will need to be done right, by Apple, before it's universal in the iPhone.



    These "ideas" show very bad design choices and hacks to get rudimentary support that isn't going to be around for long.
  • Reply 39 of 42
    Clipboard is entirely necessary, if for only one small purpose that I for one use almost every day.



    You have a meeting to attend; you go to your calendar and find the meeting is hosted by your clients, and you need to capture the 10-digit conference bridge line, and then remember a 6-digit passcode, and perhaps a leader code.



    I should be able to copy the phone number and passcode(s), paste it into the phone dialer, back out the extra non-phone number digits, and dial it. Then, I should be able to do another paste and back out the phone number leaving the passcode in the phone dialer.



    Of course, a better action would be to allow all semi-decently formatted phone numbers (perhaps 2-4 ways) to be clickable - and it generates a call.



    Or I could stick with my pack of postIT notes and my manual ink pen to do the job \



    -Paul
  • Reply 40 of 42
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member
    Here's how it should work:



    OpenClip is an application. Apps that want to support it need to do a couple of things.



    When an app that supports OpenClip is first launched, it registers itself with the OpenClip app. It does this through URL protocols, which are the supported method of inter-app communication on the iPhone. When it registers itself, it just passes its name and its own URL protocol. This step is required so that OpenClip can call your app later.



    When you copy something, it is sent to the clipboard via a URL protocol. OpenClip briefly launches, but doesn't present a GUI -- it then just quits again. It'll take a second or two, but it could be optimised. The original app does not quit -- it overrides the quit notification. You're killed after 20 seconds if you do this, but the operation will take less than 20 seconds.



    When you want to paste, a similar thing happens, you call OpenClip via a URL protocol, and it immediately calls you back via the protocol you registered with it before. Your app then handles this URL, which contains the clipboard data, and pastes it as normal.



    Starting the OpenClip app directly presents you with the last few items copied. You can then click a Paste button, then select an application from the list (of registered apps), and it sends the clipboard data to that app.
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