A lot of this problem has more to do with call density than tracking, as Wired has said.
I often get a five bar 3G signal, only to see it drop to one or two bars, and stay there. Then, at times, it will drop out of 3G and go to five or four bars of Edge, then pop back up to three bars of 3G.
This is without me moving the phone at all.
Wired's explanation, which makes more sense than a tracking issue, is that 3G towers are getting overloaded, hence they drop out entirely, and Edge takes over. When some calls finish, capacity is restored, and you get 3G again. It goes back and forth in areas where there is great density of 3G phones.
Digital is either working, or not working. If capacity is too low, there will be problems.
Combine this with not quite enough towers in a number of areas and you have problems. Also, AT&T has said that the 3G towers are being upgraded as to the strength of the signal. That will help as well.
Certainly, traffic can also be a big problem... my reasons for not believing it to be the big reason here:
- Calls dropped when sitting still during a low-volume period (with adequate tower coverage).
- Calls dropped when moving through low-call-density areas (w/ adequate coverage).
- It is a convenient problem, in terms of having a ready-made solution to present to the audience.
If it is solely a call-density/congestion/traffic problem, then at low-traffic periods people would not have problems. Question: is this the case? It sure sounds like people are having trouble all the time, and not just during peak periods of the day...
It is a convenient problem because the PR answer is: we're solving the problem - we're building more towers! It sounds like a good way to say, "no, really, we're working on it!" It's better than my more pessimistic assertion of, "it's the fatal flaw of our network that a 5th grader wrote our tracking software for his intro to c++ class. We could fix it, but we'd just be hiring another 5th grader..."
I don't mean to belittle your point at all because there certainly could be truth to it. My contention is that the problems are too pervasive, and that explanation too convenient, for it to be entirely correct. It most definitely could be part of the problem, though.
Why can it not also know signal strength? My phone knows (supposedly, if we are to trust the bars) how much of a signal I'm getting from the tower, so the tower should also know how much of a phone signal it's getting. And if that signal is strong, it should use that info in its decision-making process of whether to drop the call if it misses a cycle. If the signal had been (very) weak, then sure, maybe dropping the call is the best course of action. But if I had 5 bars, there is no way the tower should be missing any cycles, so if it does lose one, dropping the call should be its LAST option.
Is this issue the lousy logic you're referring to AT&T using?
You are correct; there are ways to gather information about the quality of a connection, but your solution might introduce more complexities than are needed. I think a similar example would be clearest: When you ping an IP address you see the number of dropped packets, latency, etc. So a network (AT&T, whomever) could collect something like this and make a decision like you suggest...
...but nobody ever wants a network to decide to arbitrarily drop a phone call. If it's remotely possible, we want the thing to keep trying, right? So to continue with the IP metaphor, the key question is, "What should the network do if a packet is dropped?" Should you immediately get a horrible, "your browser isn't connected to any network," or should it keep trying? And for how long? Add to that that your phone is a moving target (potentially), and that's where the phone network hits bumps.
This oversimplifies: When AT&T's network hits a "dropped packet" it drops the ball. The "correct/ideal" thing is for it to use your position info from a previous x cycle(s) and, using approximation, try sending your signal to the next logical spot. <--- this can be done; this is what networks do (good networks just do it, better).
Your phone/mobile/whatever could also note that it didn't get anything from the tower on the last cycle, and momentarily put forth a stronger signal to possibly detect and reacquire the misguided/wayward signal (this is only one of several possible solutions).
These sound easy in layman's terms, and the exact solutions are doable with math (thanks to Mr. Kalman, et al). The money for a phone maker/service provider is made by the programmer who [correctly] turn the math into code. I have great respect for these [good] programmers...
"...an auto-3G feature which will turn 3G off when not using Safari, Mail, YouTube, and Maps."?
Given the evidently immature state of AT&T's 3G network, this seems like a great "workaround" solution option for the time being. Unfortunately, I doubt Apple will implement it. I think even including an option to turn off the key new feature on their iPhone 3G was a necessary concession they'd have preferred not to have to make. But, as it turns out, they were wise to hedge their bet on AT&T's readiness.
Presuming AT&T fixes their 3G network hardware issues and Apple fixes the iPhone's 3G/EDGE handshaking issues (in anything resembling a timely manner), any such 3G "auto-on/off" feature from Apple would be a temporary fix that would then need to be removed in the not too distant future. Is there a precedent for Apple doing anything like that in its history?
I think Apple will be content to let AT&T take the heat as consumer and business demand forces the carrier to improve its sub-par 3G network. Apple will likely continue to focus its own efforts instead on improving the iPhone's functionality (i.e., 3G/EDGE handshaking, signal acquisition, GPS tracking, etc.) through software/firmware updates.
Then we get into the issue of syncing through Mobile Me. To much corruption and difficulty here. Moreso I'm wondering why a sync over USB can't fix this. Worst is trying to find the work around on Apples support web site. The killer is that all the need to do is add a button that just completely resuncs an app. So if my calendar gets screwed up I can just tap a button to get a refresh from "me.com". Seems like a good solid solution to me.
Yes I agree the syncing needs some work. Even without using MobileMe, if you're just syncing contacts, bookmarks and calendar direct through iTunes it still sometimes fails to transfer changed records. I have had to go in to Address Book and make artificial edits to get it to see the change. I was mainly commenting that I don't think the 3G radio is faulty.
The problem is with the way AT&T's software tracks a cellphone. Basically, at any point x, at cycle y, a cellphone could be anywhere in the universe. A tower would have to send out a lot of energy to ping every spot in the universe for a particular phone, and the phone would have to put out a lot of juice to be spotted by the tower (needle in haystack). So, a mathematical system for estimation is used to optimize the amount of power needed by the tower & phone while maintaining the signal. (basically, if the tower knows where you are at cycle y, it uses mathematical estimation to "guess" where you will be at y+1).
When you see "full bars" or whatever, you are seeing that there *is* a signal... but it has no bearing on whether *your particular* signal will be properly tracked if you try to call/whatever someone. The tracking is done by the math formula, which is turned into code.
The problem with AT&T, as I think I posted on a different ai thread, is that the programmers hired the C- math students to write the optimization equations (and, probably, the programmers were C- as well...). The equations are bad, so the tower "guesses wrong" about where your signal will be from cycle to cycle. The result? Dropped calls.
Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of Kalman Filtering, which is the best mathematical system for such estimations (if you want a book, the best is, "An Introduction to Kalman Filtering With Applications" by K.Miller and D.Leskiw - no, it's not my book).
So... it's not [just] the hardware - I don't know enough about the hardware to say definitively, but I know enough about tracking to know a bad tracking program by the way it works (or doesn't). PS: Kalman filtering is often used as the mathematical basis for tracking everything, from cellphones to airplanes to ballistic missiles. If you have a radar + you need to optimize energy usage => kalman.
THAT was helpful! Thank you and contribute nerd-speak anytime!
You are always trying to rewrite what you said even thought it's only a scroll away. You wrote, "GSM is for voice, or circuit switched data" despite GSM being the same standard used for GPRS and EDGE.
The problem is with the way AT&T's software tracks a cellphone. Basically, at any point x, at cycle y, a cellphone could be anywhere in the universe. A tower would have to send out a lot of energy to ping every spot in the universe for a particular phone, and the phone would have to put out a lot of juice to be spotted by the tower (needle in haystack). So, a mathematical system for estimation is used to optimize the amount of power needed by the tower & phone while maintaining the signal. (basically, if the tower knows where you are at cycle y, it uses mathematical estimation to "guess" where you will be at y+1).
When you see "full bars" or whatever, you are seeing that there *is* a signal... but it has no bearing on whether *your particular* signal will be properly tracked if you try to call/whatever someone. The tracking is done by the math formula, which is turned into code.
The problem with AT&T, as I think I posted on a different ai thread, is that the programmers hired the C- math students to write the optimization equations (and, probably, the programmers were C- as well...). The equations are bad, so the tower "guesses wrong" about where your signal will be from cycle to cycle. The result? Dropped calls.
Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of Kalman Filtering, which is the best mathematical system for such estimations (if you want a book, the best is, "An Introduction to Kalman Filtering With Applications" by K.Miller and D.Leskiw - no, it's not my book).
So... it's not [just] the hardware - I don't know enough about the hardware to say definitively, but I know enough about tracking to know a bad tracking program by the way it works (or doesn't). PS: Kalman filtering is often used as the mathematical basis for tracking everything, from cellphones to airplanes to ballistic missiles. If you have a radar + you need to optimize energy usage => kalman.
Thank you for your explanations, nerd speak forgiven!,
Your notes explain why in the UK a cellphone on Vodafone drops calls in the same way (and it is NOT an iPhone), over here an iPhone on O2 is actually pretty good whereas a Nokia 6021 on Vodafone is rubbish. Its the provider, not the handset,
An iPhone on Orange's UK network would be even better, coverage and service are spot-on, oh please!!!!
back haul plays a factor as well as AT&T only having 5mhz and at most 10mhz of spectrum in most major cities. I can still see AT&T having issues with LTE when that comes out due to very little spectrum.
From what I understood, you cannot use data and voice at the same time while on EDGE. Meaning, no safari, or mail, etc. while on a cell call. Which means no push email while talking on your phone on EDGE/GSM. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I understood it. 3G has that capability.
what's new is that prior to this info, folks wanted to bash Apple and blame the drops on bad hardware and software, even to the point of suing Apple.
but this information shows that another device on the same network is having issues so the fault is not likely to be 100% Apple but in fact part Apple and part ATT (or even all ATT).
I do think that perhaps Apple needs to readjust the sensitivity levels that force a switch back to Edge cause they seem to be too high, thus folks get low reception. or if there is not something in the software at all, put it in there. that will likely help with the dropped voice calls.
I agree with you. When the entire Apple-bashing came out, I stayed on the sidelines waiting to see what the real story was when the truth finally came out. The predictions (i.e. "guessing") the anlalysts and the whiners did turned out to be wrong. They seem to be mysteriously quiet at the moment with their Apple-bashing. RIM probably delayed their phone because they knew of the immaturity of the 3G network (at least in the U.S.) and wanted to see how the iPhone drama goes. At least Apple had the gusto to go in and give it a try.
Apple took the high-road and did their best to improve the 3G experience even though it wasn't really anything they could do. They didn't lower themselves to the pack-mentality or the torch-bearing villagers. However, I do believe there was finger-pointing going back and forth between Apple and AT&T and no one wanted to take the blame. It's times like these when the best action for a user is to take a step back and wait for the dust to settle and see what the final outcome is. Now it seems apparent what it was.
I recall reading somewhere in the past week that supposedly AT&T doesn't know how many 3G calls are getting dropped because few customers report them when they happen.
Is it worth reporting dropped calls to AT&T? If so, does anyone know the best phone # to call AT&T at to report them? (Assuming your call to them doesn't drop.... \ )
I guess people now can at least understand why Apple decided to use EDGE for the 1st iPhone. 3G network, at least in the US, is not ready yet and as someone said before turn off your 3G feature.
3G is only useful for faster internet and if you need browse the internet while talking. There is no benefit of using 3G while talking (actually it drains your battery twice as fast).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Yes there is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
and that would be... ?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit
From what I understood, you cannot use data and voice at the same time while on EDGE. Meaning, no safari, or mail, etc. while on a cell call. Which means no push email while talking on your phone on EDGE/GSM. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I understood it. 3G has that capability.
I already mentioned that. I know he wanted to say better sound quality. What he will fail to say is that the better 3G sound quality need the third party to be on the same network, use 3G capable device, and have 3G coverage. Furthermore, I read that most carriers limit the voice bandwidth (if that's what they call it) to get improve network capacity.
With 3G, your battery will drain twice as fast as 2G, so you can end those long-winded calls in half the time! That would be the benefit.
My phone calls sound great on my original iPhone in 2G, as they would using 2G on the new iPhone. Reviews stated there was an improvement in sound quality, but not a substantial improvement to always use 3G for calls.
Save your battery and save your whining and turn off 3G and save it for high speed internet. Which would you rather do, kill your battery in half a day with 3G, or enjoy the full day with plenty of battery life to spare?
Over time, AT&T's network will get beefed up and provide better support for 3G. By then, maybe they will develop a lower-power 3G radio chip that won't suck the batteries dry.
Friends at work that have 3G Blackberries turn off the 3G because they can't afford to let the battery die in 3 hours!
I already mentioned that. I know he wanted to say better sound quality. What he will fail to say is that the better 3G sound quality need the third party to be on the same network, use 3G capable device, and have 3G coverage. Furthermore, I read that most carriers limit the voice bandwidth (if that's what they call it) to get improve network capacity.
Not true. Reviews of the sound quality were regular phone calls to land-based lines, not cell to cell calls. They claim the sound quality was better, but not substantially better to recommend using 3G all the time. Don't know what the quality would be when a cell to cell call is made with 3G on one end and 2G on the other. But it would be safe to assume the 3G cell would remain on the 3G network while the 2G cell remained on the 2G network. The 3G phone would not drop to 2G simply because the other caller is on 2G.
Also, I don't know who would be talking on the phone, doing email and surfing the net at the same time just to take advantage of multi-tasking with 3G. If I am on the phone, I can wait to finish email or surf the net. I actually turned off the push feature on my original phone because it was annoying having it vibrate all the time whenever I got mail. I will check my mail when I am ready to check my mail.
I recall reading somewhere in the past week that supposedly AT&T doesn't know how many 3G calls are getting dropped because few customers report them when they happen.
Is it worth reporting dropped calls to AT&T? If so, does anyone know the best phone # to call AT&T at to report them? (Assuming your call to them doesn't drop.... \ )
Absolutely worth reporting dropped calls to AT&T. How would they know anything is wrong unless their customers make them aware of it? It's just the fire-and-brimstone-the-sky-is-falling vocal minority are the ones that take it to too high a volume level so that everything that comes out of their mouth is dropped - 3g pun intended.
Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of Kalman Filtering, which is the best mathematical system for such estimations (if you want a book, the best is, "An Introduction to Kalman Filtering With Applications" by K.Miller and D.Leskiw - no, it's not my book).
I'd recommend "Applied Optimal Estimation" by Arthur Gelb. It's known as the "bible" in that field. Doesn't cover recent advances though.
what's new is that prior to this info, folks wanted to bash Apple and blame the drops on bad hardware and software, even to the point of suing Apple.
but this information shows that another device on the same network is having issues so the fault is not likely to be 100% Apple but in fact part Apple and part ATT (or even all ATT).
So I have a question for Every Person commenting here. Where the heck have you been for the last month. Cruising the news wire I've sometimes felt that I was the only person on the web who had an understanding of the reality. Which is impossible since I don't even work in cellular.
Comments
A lot of this problem has more to do with call density than tracking, as Wired has said.
I often get a five bar 3G signal, only to see it drop to one or two bars, and stay there. Then, at times, it will drop out of 3G and go to five or four bars of Edge, then pop back up to three bars of 3G.
This is without me moving the phone at all.
Wired's explanation, which makes more sense than a tracking issue, is that 3G towers are getting overloaded, hence they drop out entirely, and Edge takes over. When some calls finish, capacity is restored, and you get 3G again. It goes back and forth in areas where there is great density of 3G phones.
Digital is either working, or not working. If capacity is too low, there will be problems.
Combine this with not quite enough towers in a number of areas and you have problems. Also, AT&T has said that the 3G towers are being upgraded as to the strength of the signal. That will help as well.
Certainly, traffic can also be a big problem... my reasons for not believing it to be the big reason here:
- Calls dropped when sitting still during a low-volume period (with adequate tower coverage).
- Calls dropped when moving through low-call-density areas (w/ adequate coverage).
- It is a convenient problem, in terms of having a ready-made solution to present to the audience.
If it is solely a call-density/congestion/traffic problem, then at low-traffic periods people would not have problems. Question: is this the case? It sure sounds like people are having trouble all the time, and not just during peak periods of the day...
It is a convenient problem because the PR answer is: we're solving the problem - we're building more towers! It sounds like a good way to say, "no, really, we're working on it!" It's better than my more pessimistic assertion of, "it's the fatal flaw of our network that a 5th grader wrote our tracking software for his intro to c++ class. We could fix it, but we'd just be hiring another 5th grader..."
I don't mean to belittle your point at all because there certainly could be truth to it. My contention is that the problems are too pervasive, and that explanation too convenient, for it to be entirely correct. It most definitely could be part of the problem, though.
Why can it not also know signal strength? My phone knows (supposedly, if we are to trust the bars) how much of a signal I'm getting from the tower, so the tower should also know how much of a phone signal it's getting. And if that signal is strong, it should use that info in its decision-making process of whether to drop the call if it misses a cycle. If the signal had been (very) weak, then sure, maybe dropping the call is the best course of action. But if I had 5 bars, there is no way the tower should be missing any cycles, so if it does lose one, dropping the call should be its LAST option.
Is this issue the lousy logic you're referring to AT&T using?
You are correct; there are ways to gather information about the quality of a connection, but your solution might introduce more complexities than are needed. I think a similar example would be clearest: When you ping an IP address you see the number of dropped packets, latency, etc. So a network (AT&T, whomever) could collect something like this and make a decision like you suggest...
...but nobody ever wants a network to decide to arbitrarily drop a phone call. If it's remotely possible, we want the thing to keep trying, right? So to continue with the IP metaphor, the key question is, "What should the network do if a packet is dropped?" Should you immediately get a horrible, "your browser isn't connected to any network," or should it keep trying? And for how long? Add to that that your phone is a moving target (potentially), and that's where the phone network hits bumps.
This oversimplifies: When AT&T's network hits a "dropped packet" it drops the ball. The "correct/ideal" thing is for it to use your position info from a previous x cycle(s) and, using approximation, try sending your signal to the next logical spot. <--- this can be done; this is what networks do (good networks just do it, better).
Your phone/mobile/whatever could also note that it didn't get anything from the tower on the last cycle, and momentarily put forth a stronger signal to possibly detect and reacquire the misguided/wayward signal (this is only one of several possible solutions).
These sound easy in layman's terms, and the exact solutions are doable with math (thanks to Mr. Kalman, et al). The money for a phone maker/service provider is made by the programmer who [correctly] turn the math into code. I have great respect for these [good] programmers...
"...an auto-3G feature which will turn 3G off when not using Safari, Mail, YouTube, and Maps."?
Given the evidently immature state of AT&T's 3G network, this seems like a great "workaround" solution option for the time being. Unfortunately, I doubt Apple will implement it. I think even including an option to turn off the key new feature on their iPhone 3G was a necessary concession they'd have preferred not to have to make. But, as it turns out, they were wise to hedge their bet on AT&T's readiness.
Presuming AT&T fixes their 3G network hardware issues and Apple fixes the iPhone's 3G/EDGE handshaking issues (in anything resembling a timely manner), any such 3G "auto-on/off" feature from Apple would be a temporary fix that would then need to be removed in the not too distant future. Is there a precedent for Apple doing anything like that in its history?
I think Apple will be content to let AT&T take the heat as consumer and business demand forces the carrier to improve its sub-par 3G network. Apple will likely continue to focus its own efforts instead on improving the iPhone's functionality (i.e., 3G/EDGE handshaking, signal acquisition, GPS tracking, etc.) through software/firmware updates.
Then we get into the issue of syncing through Mobile Me. To much corruption and difficulty here. Moreso I'm wondering why a sync over USB can't fix this. Worst is trying to find the work around on Apples support web site. The killer is that all the need to do is add a button that just completely resuncs an app. So if my calendar gets screwed up I can just tap a button to get a refresh from "me.com". Seems like a good solid solution to me.
Yes I agree the syncing needs some work. Even without using MobileMe, if you're just syncing contacts, bookmarks and calendar direct through iTunes it still sometimes fails to transfer changed records. I have had to go in to Address Book and make artificial edits to get it to see the change. I was mainly commenting that I don't think the 3G radio is faulty.
Forgive the nerd-speak...
The problem is with the way AT&T's software tracks a cellphone. Basically, at any point x, at cycle y, a cellphone could be anywhere in the universe. A tower would have to send out a lot of energy to ping every spot in the universe for a particular phone, and the phone would have to put out a lot of juice to be spotted by the tower (needle in haystack). So, a mathematical system for estimation is used to optimize the amount of power needed by the tower & phone while maintaining the signal. (basically, if the tower knows where you are at cycle y, it uses mathematical estimation to "guess" where you will be at y+1).
When you see "full bars" or whatever, you are seeing that there *is* a signal... but it has no bearing on whether *your particular* signal will be properly tracked if you try to call/whatever someone. The tracking is done by the math formula, which is turned into code.
The problem with AT&T, as I think I posted on a different ai thread, is that the programmers hired the C- math students to write the optimization equations (and, probably, the programmers were C- as well...). The equations are bad, so the tower "guesses wrong" about where your signal will be from cycle to cycle. The result? Dropped calls.
Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of Kalman Filtering, which is the best mathematical system for such estimations (if you want a book, the best is, "An Introduction to Kalman Filtering With Applications" by K.Miller and D.Leskiw - no, it's not my book).
So... it's not [just] the hardware - I don't know enough about the hardware to say definitively, but I know enough about tracking to know a bad tracking program by the way it works (or doesn't). PS: Kalman filtering is often used as the mathematical basis for tracking everything, from cellphones to airplanes to ballistic missiles. If you have a radar + you need to optimize energy usage => kalman.
THAT was helpful! Thank you and contribute nerd-speak anytime!
You are always trying to rewrite what you said even thought it's only a scroll away. You wrote, "GSM is for voice, or circuit switched data" despite GSM being the same standard used for GPRS and EDGE.
there is just no upside in arguing with solipsism
Yes there is.
and that would be... ?!
Forgive the nerd-speak...
The problem is with the way AT&T's software tracks a cellphone. Basically, at any point x, at cycle y, a cellphone could be anywhere in the universe. A tower would have to send out a lot of energy to ping every spot in the universe for a particular phone, and the phone would have to put out a lot of juice to be spotted by the tower (needle in haystack). So, a mathematical system for estimation is used to optimize the amount of power needed by the tower & phone while maintaining the signal. (basically, if the tower knows where you are at cycle y, it uses mathematical estimation to "guess" where you will be at y+1).
When you see "full bars" or whatever, you are seeing that there *is* a signal... but it has no bearing on whether *your particular* signal will be properly tracked if you try to call/whatever someone. The tracking is done by the math formula, which is turned into code.
The problem with AT&T, as I think I posted on a different ai thread, is that the programmers hired the C- math students to write the optimization equations (and, probably, the programmers were C- as well...). The equations are bad, so the tower "guesses wrong" about where your signal will be from cycle to cycle. The result? Dropped calls.
Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of Kalman Filtering, which is the best mathematical system for such estimations (if you want a book, the best is, "An Introduction to Kalman Filtering With Applications" by K.Miller and D.Leskiw - no, it's not my book).
So... it's not [just] the hardware - I don't know enough about the hardware to say definitively, but I know enough about tracking to know a bad tracking program by the way it works (or doesn't). PS: Kalman filtering is often used as the mathematical basis for tracking everything, from cellphones to airplanes to ballistic missiles. If you have a radar + you need to optimize energy usage => kalman.
Thank you for your explanations, nerd speak forgiven!,
Your notes explain why in the UK a cellphone on Vodafone drops calls in the same way (and it is NOT an iPhone), over here an iPhone on O2 is actually pretty good whereas a Nokia 6021 on Vodafone is rubbish. Its the provider, not the handset,
An iPhone on Orange's UK network would be even better, coverage and service are spot-on, oh please!!!!
and that would be... ?!
From what I understood, you cannot use data and voice at the same time while on EDGE. Meaning, no safari, or mail, etc. while on a cell call. Which means no push email while talking on your phone on EDGE/GSM. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I understood it. 3G has that capability.
what's new is that prior to this info, folks wanted to bash Apple and blame the drops on bad hardware and software, even to the point of suing Apple.
but this information shows that another device on the same network is having issues so the fault is not likely to be 100% Apple but in fact part Apple and part ATT (or even all ATT).
I do think that perhaps Apple needs to readjust the sensitivity levels that force a switch back to Edge cause they seem to be too high, thus folks get low reception. or if there is not something in the software at all, put it in there. that will likely help with the dropped voice calls.
I agree with you. When the entire Apple-bashing came out, I stayed on the sidelines waiting to see what the real story was when the truth finally came out. The predictions (i.e. "guessing") the anlalysts and the whiners did turned out to be wrong. They seem to be mysteriously quiet at the moment with their Apple-bashing. RIM probably delayed their phone because they knew of the immaturity of the 3G network (at least in the U.S.) and wanted to see how the iPhone drama goes. At least Apple had the gusto to go in and give it a try.
Apple took the high-road and did their best to improve the 3G experience even though it wasn't really anything they could do. They didn't lower themselves to the pack-mentality or the torch-bearing villagers. However, I do believe there was finger-pointing going back and forth between Apple and AT&T and no one wanted to take the blame. It's times like these when the best action for a user is to take a step back and wait for the dust to settle and see what the final outcome is. Now it seems apparent what it was.
I thought it is known that 3G isn't guaranteed everywhere, that if 3G drops out, the switch to EDGE isn't smooth so calls drop out.
Seems perfectly logical to me.
Is it worth reporting dropped calls to AT&T? If so, does anyone know the best phone # to call AT&T at to report them? (Assuming your call to them doesn't drop....
I guess people now can at least understand why Apple decided to use EDGE for the 1st iPhone. 3G network, at least in the US, is not ready yet and as someone said before turn off your 3G feature.
3G is only useful for faster internet and if you need browse the internet while talking. There is no benefit of using 3G while talking (actually it drains your battery twice as fast).
Yes there is.
and that would be... ?!
From what I understood, you cannot use data and voice at the same time while on EDGE. Meaning, no safari, or mail, etc. while on a cell call. Which means no push email while talking on your phone on EDGE/GSM. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I understood it. 3G has that capability.
I already mentioned that. I know he wanted to say better sound quality. What he will fail to say is that the better 3G sound quality need the third party to be on the same network, use 3G capable device, and have 3G coverage. Furthermore, I read that most carriers limit the voice bandwidth (if that's what they call it) to get improve network capacity.
Yes there is.
With 3G, your battery will drain twice as fast as 2G, so you can end those long-winded calls in half the time! That would be the benefit.
My phone calls sound great on my original iPhone in 2G, as they would using 2G on the new iPhone. Reviews stated there was an improvement in sound quality, but not a substantial improvement to always use 3G for calls.
Save your battery and save your whining and turn off 3G and save it for high speed internet. Which would you rather do, kill your battery in half a day with 3G, or enjoy the full day with plenty of battery life to spare?
Over time, AT&T's network will get beefed up and provide better support for 3G. By then, maybe they will develop a lower-power 3G radio chip that won't suck the batteries dry.
Friends at work that have 3G Blackberries turn off the 3G because they can't afford to let the battery die in 3 hours!
Yes there is.
I already mentioned that. I know he wanted to say better sound quality. What he will fail to say is that the better 3G sound quality need the third party to be on the same network, use 3G capable device, and have 3G coverage. Furthermore, I read that most carriers limit the voice bandwidth (if that's what they call it) to get improve network capacity.
Not true. Reviews of the sound quality were regular phone calls to land-based lines, not cell to cell calls. They claim the sound quality was better, but not substantially better to recommend using 3G all the time. Don't know what the quality would be when a cell to cell call is made with 3G on one end and 2G on the other. But it would be safe to assume the 3G cell would remain on the 3G network while the 2G cell remained on the 2G network. The 3G phone would not drop to 2G simply because the other caller is on 2G.
Also, I don't know who would be talking on the phone, doing email and surfing the net at the same time just to take advantage of multi-tasking with 3G. If I am on the phone, I can wait to finish email or surf the net. I actually turned off the push feature on my original phone because it was annoying having it vibrate all the time whenever I got mail. I will check my mail when I am ready to check my mail.
I recall reading somewhere in the past week that supposedly AT&T doesn't know how many 3G calls are getting dropped because few customers report them when they happen.
Is it worth reporting dropped calls to AT&T? If so, does anyone know the best phone # to call AT&T at to report them? (Assuming your call to them doesn't drop....
Absolutely worth reporting dropped calls to AT&T. How would they know anything is wrong unless their customers make them aware of it? It's just the fire-and-brimstone-the-sky-is-falling vocal minority are the ones that take it to too high a volume level so that everything that comes out of their mouth is dropped - 3g pun intended.
Forgive the nerd-speak...
Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of Kalman Filtering, which is the best mathematical system for such estimations (if you want a book, the best is, "An Introduction to Kalman Filtering With Applications" by K.Miller and D.Leskiw - no, it's not my book).
I'd recommend "Applied Optimal Estimation" by Arthur Gelb. It's known as the "bible" in that field. Doesn't cover recent advances though.
- Matt
If so, does anyone know the best phone # to call AT&T at to report them?
If you are calling your iPhone: 611, then 1, then 0 again to get operator. Have never waited more than a couple minutes.
what's new is that prior to this info, folks wanted to bash Apple and blame the drops on bad hardware and software, even to the point of suing Apple.
but this information shows that another device on the same network is having issues so the fault is not likely to be 100% Apple but in fact part Apple and part ATT (or even all ATT).
So I have a question for Every Person commenting here. Where the heck have you been for the last month. Cruising the news wire I've sometimes felt that I was the only person on the web who had an understanding of the reality. Which is impossible since I don't even work in cellular.