Do you think that more people are using the iPhone's 3G network over all other 3G enabled phones, which many offer tethering support?
No. I think they are using it in ADDITION to all other devices. Thus the increase.
It wouldn't surprise me if they are using it more than tethering: tethering is an expensive additional service that most people don't bother with, while iPhone browsing and app downloads are an everyday-consumer activity. But I have no data on that. It wouldn't surprise me either if tethering was the bigger usage.
On top of which, the iPhone has added a big surge of traffic.
Do you think that more people are using the iPhone's 3G network over all other 3G enabled phones, which many offer tethering support?
I think the stats specifically record browser stats, not the ISP, so tethering would through things off. Either way, the point is that even on EDGE the iPhone's Safari, display size and UI made using the internet a viable option. Something that all manufacturers realised was now a requirement. well, at least the ones that want to stay competitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight
The processor isn't running at at full speed, the iPhone processor is scaled back. Go check your phone.
He's ahead of the curve in knowing that the BB Bold will have a 624MHz CPU and realises that it will probably be underclocked, so it's a safe bet that he know the iPhone is underclocked from 620Mhz to 412MHz.
Quote:
I hope you really do know that there are phones that have been available that have much faster 3G.
I'm curious to know which phones are these. I think Korea is your best bet for finding a phone with a 3G radio faster than 7.2Mbps.
I hope that Apple has contractual agreements with the providers to oblige them to give uncapped 3G. Otherwise, they should lose exclusivity which is is a scandal to begin with. Exclusivity deals permit to hide the true price of the iphone. I hope that Europe will twist the arm of Apple to drop these exclusive deals so one can choose the best bandwidth provider.
Probably Apple has taken the fall for 3G shortcomings because it has agreements to sign with new providers, so it has to play nice with them. Later, Apple will put the screw on them for them to to comply.
Anyway, I think that a smart phone available everywhere is also a good way to compare the providers so that eventually they can honestly compete. Unlike Internet so far, the mobile telephony is a world where users are sheep to be shaved.
What do you actually mean when you stated, "…there are other phones more than capable of putting through more data than an iPhone?"
Right now, this simply tells me that you can't get as much data down on the iPhone as you can on other cell phones.
And your reference is too ambiguous. Please be more specific. Thank you.
I think I need to put him on my ignore list; he says one thing then says he meant something else. He commented about bandwidth is in one sense and now he's referring not to the transmission capacity, but to the overall data usage over a predetermined amount of time. Seriously nerve racking!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core
What third party hack? And don't say NetShare. It doesn't fill the nomenclature.
By 3rd-party I think he is referring to a comment i amde last week about being able to tether your iPhone if it's jailbroken.
I think I need to put him on my ignore list; he says one thing then says he meant something else. He commented about bandwidth is in one sense and now he's referring not to the transmission capacity, but to the overall data usage over a predetermined amount of time. Seriously nerve racking!
Go ahead, I won't lose any sleep over it, and I don't really care how you understand my posts. You are too much of a fan boy to listen to anyone elses point of view, it is pretty obvious that you believe that everything that apple makes is perfect and there can be no other way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
By 3rd-party I think he is referring to a comment i amde last week about being able to tether your iPhone if it's jailbroken.
Well it isn't made by Apple, so that makes it a 3rd party hack doesn't it?!?
So if I was to go out and purchase an iPhone today, without hacking the phone, how do I tether it to another device?
As solipism pointed out the iPhone 3G chip is 7.2 mbps while there might be a few 14.4's out there it's quite rare. And really, get over the tethering argument - if processor speed, rendering ability, and RAM had nothing to do with a computers capable download speed then virtually no one would get new computers as 10 year old boxes would be able to surf as fast as new ones.
When not tethering (which I know this might come as a shock to you but most people *dont* tether) and just surfing the web, downloading mail, watching YouTube the only ones that can handle more data are the 14.4's but, again, as solipism said those are very, very few and far between.
Go ahead, I won't lose any sleep over it, and I don't really care how you understand my posts. You are too much of a fan boy to listen to anyone elses point of view, it is pretty obvious that you believe that everything that apple makes is perfect and there can be no other way.
if he's a fan boy and then you are the anti-fan boy. You do nothing but complain about the Apple products and even when faced with obvious truth (surfing on the iPhone is faster than any 7.2's, the iPhone has the fastest processor of any mobile out there right now) you quibble and go after another argument - lately it's this tethering argument.
Your question related to a comment of mine re download speed which as you know is entirely different from data usage.
What I did say about data usage, was that Rogers based their Data Usage amount/prices on information from AT&T re average monthly consumption per iPhone user in the US, which was 100MBs per month.
Based on that information, Rogers, unlike AT&T's unlimited program, issued a Data Plan charging $30 for 400Mbs and claimed that it was more the sufficient for the average user. At that point, my position as a researcher/scientist, was basically in agreement, since there was no empirical data to show or argue otherwise.
Now that I have gotten my first Rogers' bill, and based on the fact that there is no other evidence to support to support to the contrary, it appears that Rogers' first declarations were in fact correct.
Gladly, I may add, I am currently getting great speed via 3G, up to 1500kbs which is about 10-Xs faster than my EDGE service and with the understanding that it is capped while being tested to ensure stability as more users come on board. As my father used to say, "You don't destroy a house for the sake of one brick."
Perhaps we should all step back a bit and realize that wireless is like speaking into the wind. And there is a lot of it here.
Quibbling over paper technical numbers aside, my understanding of jfanning's point is that the iPhone is NOT causing carriers to experience an increase in usage of the Internet. He was replying to macapptraining's comment:
"iPhone is still ahead of the times... Relying so heavily on the Internet connection and 3g, the cell companies can't keep [up]."
jfanning disagreed with that, and while I don't get the relevance of most of the points that followed, I am still convinced that he's wrong about his basic point. The iPhone IS causing heavier usage of mobile Internet, and I don't see how that can be debated.
You could still debate that the carriers are having no problems handling the increased 3G data traffic (the second part of macapptraining's assertion), but even that seems far-fetched to me. There seems to be ample evidence that the carriers are--in some regions--either HAVING trouble or CAUSING trouble with their Internet and 3G traffic (see also Wired's informal data rate map, and the story on recent BlackBerry 3G problems).
But even if the carriers ARE keeping up, there's no denying the basic fact that the iPhone has increased data usage over pre-iPhone levels.
Maybe jfanning just needs to clarify why he objects to macapptraining's statement. Maybe he thinks the iPhone is not "ahead" in any way that affects Internet usage?
But clearly, the ways the iPhone is "ahead" (usability, especially the browser) DO affect Internet usage. Talk of spec numbers can't change that reality.
So I still don't understand jfanning's original point about macapptraining's statement. (If we understood, we might realize we all agree with him!)
Your question related to a comment of mine re download speed which as you know is entirely different from data usage.
What I did say about data usage, was that Rogers based their Data Usage amount/prices on information from AT&T re average monthly consumption per iPhone user in the US, which was 100MBs per month.
The thing is, I would think that they could use that data to predict total network usage of all users.
Quote:
Gladly, I may add, I am currently getting great speed via 3G, up to 1500kbs which is about 10-Xs faster than my EDGE service and with the understanding that it is capped while being tested to ensure stability as more users come on board. As my father used to say, "You don't destroy a house for the sake of one brick."
Perhaps we should all step back a bit and realize that wireless is like speaking into the wind. And there is a lot of it here.
It may be all over now, but the reasons for initial throttling seem fishy to me. Not only that, the internet companies have ways to manage data use at peak times so as to prevent network problems, it seems silly to me that the cellular companies don't have similar means without resorting to arbitrary continuous rate caps.
If the flaky behavior is truly related to inadequate capacity, that would lead to an
interesting dilemma. Cap the 3G speed and have more reliable but slower connections
vs. uncap the 3G speed and have faster but less reliable connections. Which alternative
is better for iPhone users?
Interesting thought. That would make for a good survey. We are familiar with Cable and Fiber being capped. We know that the speeds we get from those broadband services can be much faster.
I'd say that it would be in Apple's and AT&T's (can't speak for other carriers) best interest to offer a cap in areas where the number of users are uncommonly high. Like NYC! Not only is the iPhone being used more than other 3G phones, but there is plenty of evidence that it's also pulling many people into the smartphone market (which includes people going for Nokia and RiM smartphones because of the iPhone lifting the veil-of-geekiness from these previously non-user friendly devices).
I'd think that those who are being dropped regularly from 1Mbps to 200kbps would much rather have a steady 500kbps until the network data and connection capabilities can get appropriately increased.
Comments
Well I would say all the phones that support 3G, and BT.
A couple of examples are at http://www.nokia.eu
What do you actually mean when you stated, "?there are other phones more than capable of putting through more data than an iPhone?"
Right now, this simply tells me that you can't get as much data down on the iPhone as you can on other cell phones.
And your reference is too ambiguous. Please be more specific. Thank you.
Because you can tether other phones via BT to a PC, or other device and download as much stuff as you like.
That is a fact, you do not have to install a 3rd party hack to do this
And don't say this is a violation of your AT&T agreement, I don't live in the US, so don't care about that.
What third party hack? And don't say NetShare. It doesn't fill the nomenclature.
Could you please elaborate? Calculated what ahead of time?
Thank you
Data usage ahead of the rollout.
Do you think that more people are using the iPhone's 3G network over all other 3G enabled phones, which many offer tethering support?
No. I think they are using it in ADDITION to all other devices. Thus the increase.
It wouldn't surprise me if they are using it more than tethering: tethering is an expensive additional service that most people don't bother with, while iPhone browsing and app downloads are an everyday-consumer activity. But I have no data on that. It wouldn't surprise me either if tethering was the bigger usage.
On top of which, the iPhone has added a big surge of traffic.
Do you think that more people are using the iPhone's 3G network over all other 3G enabled phones, which many offer tethering support?
I think the stats specifically record browser stats, not the ISP, so tethering would through things off. Either way, the point is that even on EDGE the iPhone's Safari, display size and UI made using the internet a viable option. Something that all manufacturers realised was now a requirement. well, at least the ones that want to stay competitive.
The processor isn't running at at full speed, the iPhone processor is scaled back. Go check your phone.
He's ahead of the curve in knowing that the BB Bold will have a 624MHz CPU and realises that it will probably be underclocked, so it's a safe bet that he know the iPhone is underclocked from 620Mhz to 412MHz.
I hope you really do know that there are phones that have been available that have much faster 3G.
I'm curious to know which phones are these. I think Korea is your best bet for finding a phone with a 3G radio faster than 7.2Mbps.
What do you actually mean when you stated, "?there are other phones more than capable of putting through more data than an iPhone?"
Right now, this simply tells me that you can't get as much data down on the iPhone as you can on other cell phones.
And your reference is too ambiguous. Please be more specific. Thank you.
I think if you read the other messages in this thread you would know the answer to this.
Smartphones (and other models as well) from other cell phone manufactures provide the ability to tether their phones to computers, tablets etc.
With these devices you can transfer a lot more data than you can with an iPhone.
For that link, look at the various E, and N series phones. Others will support it as well.
Probably Apple has taken the fall for 3G shortcomings because it has agreements to sign with new providers, so it has to play nice with them. Later, Apple will put the screw on them for them to to comply.
Anyway, I think that a smart phone available everywhere is also a good way to compare the providers so that eventually they can honestly compete. Unlike Internet so far, the mobile telephony is a world where users are sheep to be shaved.
What do you actually mean when you stated, "…there are other phones more than capable of putting through more data than an iPhone?"
Right now, this simply tells me that you can't get as much data down on the iPhone as you can on other cell phones.
And your reference is too ambiguous. Please be more specific. Thank you.
I think I need to put him on my ignore list; he says one thing then says he meant something else. He commented about bandwidth is in one sense and now he's referring not to the transmission capacity, but to the overall data usage over a predetermined amount of time. Seriously nerve racking!
What third party hack? And don't say NetShare. It doesn't fill the nomenclature.
By 3rd-party I think he is referring to a comment i amde last week about being able to tether your iPhone if it's jailbroken.
I think if you read the other messages in this thread you would know the answer to this.
Smartphones (and other models as well) from other cell phone manufactures provide the ability to tether their phones to computers, tablets etc.
With these devices you can transfer a lot more data than you can with an iPhone.
For that link, look at the various E, and N series phones. Others will support it as well.
So you are telling me that using NetShare on my iPhone for example as I am now, that I cannot get as much data on my Macbook Pro vs another phone.
By the way, do you pay anything for tethering where you live? I don't with my iPhone.
So you are telling me that using NetShare on my iPhone for example as I am now, that I cannot get as much data on my Macbook Pro vs another phone.
So if I was to go out and purchase an iPhone today, without hacking the phone, how do I tether it to another device?
I think I need to put him on my ignore list; he says one thing then says he meant something else. He commented about bandwidth is in one sense and now he's referring not to the transmission capacity, but to the overall data usage over a predetermined amount of time. Seriously nerve racking!
Go ahead, I won't lose any sleep over it, and I don't really care how you understand my posts. You are too much of a fan boy to listen to anyone elses point of view, it is pretty obvious that you believe that everything that apple makes is perfect and there can be no other way.
By 3rd-party I think he is referring to a comment i amde last week about being able to tether your iPhone if it's jailbroken.
Well it isn't made by Apple, so that makes it a 3rd party hack doesn't it?!?
So if I was to go out and purchase an iPhone today, without hacking the phone, how do I tether it to another device?
As solipism pointed out the iPhone 3G chip is 7.2 mbps while there might be a few 14.4's out there it's quite rare. And really, get over the tethering argument - if processor speed, rendering ability, and RAM had nothing to do with a computers capable download speed then virtually no one would get new computers as 10 year old boxes would be able to surf as fast as new ones.
When not tethering (which I know this might come as a shock to you but most people *dont* tether) and just surfing the web, downloading mail, watching YouTube the only ones that can handle more data are the 14.4's but, again, as solipism said those are very, very few and far between.
Go ahead, I won't lose any sleep over it, and I don't really care how you understand my posts. You are too much of a fan boy to listen to anyone elses point of view, it is pretty obvious that you believe that everything that apple makes is perfect and there can be no other way.
if he's a fan boy and then you are the anti-fan boy. You do nothing but complain about the Apple products and even when faced with obvious truth (surfing on the iPhone is faster than any 7.2's, the iPhone has the fastest processor of any mobile out there right now) you quibble and go after another argument - lately it's this tethering argument.
Data usage ahead of the rollout.
Hi Jeff.
Your question related to a comment of mine re download speed which as you know is entirely different from data usage.
What I did say about data usage, was that Rogers based their Data Usage amount/prices on information from AT&T re average monthly consumption per iPhone user in the US, which was 100MBs per month.
Based on that information, Rogers, unlike AT&T's unlimited program, issued a Data Plan charging $30 for 400Mbs and claimed that it was more the sufficient for the average user. At that point, my position as a researcher/scientist, was basically in agreement, since there was no empirical data to show or argue otherwise.
Now that I have gotten my first Rogers' bill, and based on the fact that there is no other evidence to support to support to the contrary, it appears that Rogers' first declarations were in fact correct.
Gladly, I may add, I am currently getting great speed via 3G, up to 1500kbs which is about 10-Xs faster than my EDGE service and with the understanding that it is capped while being tested to ensure stability as more users come on board. As my father used to say, "You don't destroy a house for the sake of one brick."
Perhaps we should all step back a bit and realize that wireless is like speaking into the wind. And there is a lot of it here.
So if I was to go out and purchase an iPhone today, without hacking the phone, how do I tether it to another device?
Normally, I would gladly send you a copy. But my better judgement, your lousy attitude and my penchant to be a prick at times dictates otherwise.
"iPhone is still ahead of the times... Relying so heavily on the Internet connection and 3g, the cell companies can't keep [up]."
jfanning disagreed with that, and while I don't get the relevance of most of the points that followed, I am still convinced that he's wrong about his basic point. The iPhone IS causing heavier usage of mobile Internet, and I don't see how that can be debated.
You could still debate that the carriers are having no problems handling the increased 3G data traffic (the second part of macapptraining's assertion), but even that seems far-fetched to me. There seems to be ample evidence that the carriers are--in some regions--either HAVING trouble or CAUSING trouble with their Internet and 3G traffic (see also Wired's informal data rate map, and the story on recent BlackBerry 3G problems).
But even if the carriers ARE keeping up, there's no denying the basic fact that the iPhone has increased data usage over pre-iPhone levels.
Maybe jfanning just needs to clarify why he objects to macapptraining's statement. Maybe he thinks the iPhone is not "ahead" in any way that affects Internet usage?
But clearly, the ways the iPhone is "ahead" (usability, especially the browser) DO affect Internet usage. Talk of spec numbers can't change that reality.
So I still don't understand jfanning's original point about macapptraining's statement. (If we understood, we might realize we all agree with him!)
Hi Jeff.
Your question related to a comment of mine re download speed which as you know is entirely different from data usage.
What I did say about data usage, was that Rogers based their Data Usage amount/prices on information from AT&T re average monthly consumption per iPhone user in the US, which was 100MBs per month.
The thing is, I would think that they could use that data to predict total network usage of all users.
Gladly, I may add, I am currently getting great speed via 3G, up to 1500kbs which is about 10-Xs faster than my EDGE service and with the understanding that it is capped while being tested to ensure stability as more users come on board. As my father used to say, "You don't destroy a house for the sake of one brick."
Perhaps we should all step back a bit and realize that wireless is like speaking into the wind. And there is a lot of it here.
It may be all over now, but the reasons for initial throttling seem fishy to me. Not only that, the internet companies have ways to manage data use at peak times so as to prevent network problems, it seems silly to me that the cellular companies don't have similar means without resorting to arbitrary continuous rate caps.
I hope that Apple has contractual agreements with the providers to oblige them to give uncapped 3G.
If the flaky behavior is truly related to inadequate capacity, that would lead to an
interesting dilemma. Cap the 3G speed and have more reliable but slower connections
vs. uncap the 3G speed and have faster but less reliable connections. Which alternative
is better for iPhone users?
If the flaky behavior is truly related to inadequate capacity, that would lead to an
interesting dilemma. Cap the 3G speed and have more reliable but slower connections
vs. uncap the 3G speed and have faster but less reliable connections. Which alternative
is better for iPhone users?
Interesting thought. That would make for a good survey. We are familiar with Cable and Fiber being capped. We know that the speeds we get from those broadband services can be much faster.
I'd say that it would be in Apple's and AT&T's (can't speak for other carriers) best interest to offer a cap in areas where the number of users are uncommonly high. Like NYC! Not only is the iPhone being used more than other 3G phones, but there is plenty of evidence that it's also pulling many people into the smartphone market (which includes people going for Nokia and RiM smartphones because of the iPhone lifting the veil-of-geekiness from these previously non-user friendly devices).
I'd think that those who are being dropped regularly from 1Mbps to 200kbps would much rather have a steady 500kbps until the network data and connection capabilities can get appropriately increased.