Orange admits to capping 3G speeds in France

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 84
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post


    Do you think that more people are using the iPhone's 3G network over all other 3G enabled phones, which many offer tethering support?



    I, personally, wouldn't say more people are using iPhone 3G network over ALL other 3G enabled phones, but rather would say, I would think, more people are enjoying the iPhone's 3G network (when it is not overloaded and runs at poor speeds) for use of such thing as browsing the web on the phone and getting the same results on my screen as would be needed by some other smart phone that has to be tethered to a pc to get the same effect, if that is the reasoning for tethering, which if that is required to web browse, then how smart are those other 3G enabled phones?
  • Reply 42 of 84
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    It seems perfectly plausible to me that if a carrier siimply CANNOT meet the bandwidth demand, then a trade-off between speed and reliability might have to be made, until the network can be approved.



    In which case, Orange may not have made a bad choice in the short term. Now, it's still a shame to have been faced with the choice in the first place! No matter what the trade-off, customers have a legitimate complaint.
  • Reply 43 of 84
    I would agree that more people are using the iPhone for browsing. I use my WM phone for browsing, but I use the tether option for Bit Torrent, iTunes, and other programs that can't be done over the phone. No doubt that the combination of the iPhone screen and the Safari browser, more people are using it to do simple browsing. I just figured (no mathmatical equations or research done) that people would have already been stressing the 3G network.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post


    I, personally, wouldn't say more people are using iPhone 3G network over ALL other 3G enabled phones, but rather would say, I would think, more people are enjoying the iPhone's 3G network (when it is not overloaded and runs at poor speeds) for use of such thing as browsing the web on the phone and getting the same results on my screen as would be needed by some other smart phone that has to be tethered to a pc to get the same effect, if that is the reasoning for tethering, which if that is required to web browse, then how smart are those other 3G enabled phones?



  • Reply 44 of 84
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Why am I not surprised? Why do these retard phone companies get away with this bullsh1t???? And they wonder why WAP was such an epic failure... for example. They need to seriously GET A CLUE.
  • Reply 45 of 84
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Perhaps these phone companies finally realised, either a hell of a lot of people bought an iPhone 3G, or, nobody was really using 3G *that much* with the other phones. MMS? Video calling? Nokia N series? Maybe there weren't that many or they just didn't use that much bandwidth (because apps weren't as good???) ...Well, now the telcos' 3G infrastructure is getting hammered.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post


    I would agree that more people are using the iPhone for browsing. I use my WM phone for browsing, but I use the tether option for Bit Torrent, iTunes, and other programs that can't be done over the phone. No doubt that the combination of the iPhone screen and the Safari browser, more people are using it to do simple browsing. I just figured (no mathmatical equations or research done) that people would have already been stressing the 3G network.



  • Reply 46 of 84
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    The thing is, I would think that they could use that data to predict total network usage of all users.



    It may be all over now, but the reasons for initial throttling seem fishy to me. Not only that, the internet companies have ways to manage data use so as to prevent network problems, it seems silly to me that the cellular companies don't have similar means without resorting to rate caps.



    Having served time in the signal corps contacting and trying to maintain a connection from one squad to another was hard enough. Now we are talking hundreds of thousands of new users virtually instantaneously, not all in the same place and not all at the same time everytime.



    Cripes, even NASA has had problems re wireless with the Space Shuttle. And visit your local Legion or VFW post and let the vets relate their experience.



    I, for one, find it totally understandable that carriers would not be able to simulate network demands under such immediate and extremely heavy demands. We are not talking about a single system to connect to, but a number of them with physical variables both intrinsic and extrinsic to deal with. So far, Rogers, which I have been informed is maxed to 7, but currently has capped it between 3-4. Gradually opening the tap and slowly getting drunk is far better that drowning in ones or worse everybody elses regurgitations.



    How you can say it sounds fishy and at the same time claim that internet companies have ways to manage data is beyond me. Unless you are telling me that you never lost an internet connection, or better yet, everybody is getting 100% satisfaction surfing and transferring data via their pcs. I don't think so.



    It is interesting that you also say that carriers could use that (AT&T) data to predict total network usage of all users. Yet, when Rogers attempted to justify not offering an unlimited data plan but one the was more indicative of actual usage, and thus charging the user for usage per se, that the din it generated was deafening. As such, to appease the masses, Rogers succumbed and upped the quantity.



    For sure I am happy to benefit from the new offering. However, I am glad it wasn't the 1880's when such a move might have gotten somebody hanged because misinformation prevailed.



    As I said, I don't think that capping is unique to Orange. More important, we should perhaps reflect on previous positions that 3G was the salvation, not only to wireless communication, but for the iPhone in particular. As is now being evidenced, not every other country in this world has far exceeded the US or Canada in this technology.
  • Reply 47 of 84
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    Because you can tether other phones via BT to a PC, or other device and download as much stuff as you like.



    That is a fact, you do not have to install a 3rd party hack to do this



    And don't say this is a violation of your AT&T agreement, I don't live in the US, so don't care about that.



    Tethering a phone doesn't allow it to handle more data.

    Get real, or get lost.
  • Reply 48 of 84
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    ...As I said, I don't think that capping is unique to Orange. More important, we should perhaps reflect on previous positions that 3G was the salvation, not only to wireless communication, but for the iPhone in particular. As is now being evidenced, not every other country in this world has far exceeded the US or Canada in this technology.



    Indeed. What I think many people need to do is go back to the drawing board in some way.



    Let's look at 2000-2005 which was a heady, intense period for fixed-line broadband. Heck, in 2000 PacificBell took over 3 months to connect up DSL to my San Fran city apartment.



    To this date, fixed-line broadband faces challenges with capacity, users, etc. etc. But after a few years, the latter part of this decade has led to generally improved service.



    Telcos and other players need to look long and hard at what everyone has learnt from the fixed-line scenario. Because in several years time, having a "fixed line broadband" could be as "odd" as having a fixed telephone line, in many countries around the world.



    What's the situation with 4G, 5G, and WiMax? What's on the horizon? When the iPhone 4G comes out, how will the companies be prepared? I'm curious...



    Apple should just be the Tyrell Corporation of this century. Power, telco, IT, heck, they make nice devices, wouldn't mind some Apple-designed replicants... Might be better neighbours.
  • Reply 49 of 84
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    I think if you read the other messages in this thread you would know the answer to this.



    Smartphones (and other models as well) from other cell phone manufactures provide the ability to tether their phones to computers, tablets etc.



    With these devices you can transfer a lot more data than you can with an iPhone.



    For that link, look at the various E, and N series phones. Others will support it as well.



    The difference is clear. For every 1 million iPhone sold there are one million iPhone users guaranteed to surf the web using 3G if available without the need of tethering (meaning more time using the internet on the train, bus, in the bathroom... etc).



    Your argument is flawed since you can only get the most of other phones capabilities by using them as modems!!
  • Reply 50 of 84
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    The difference is clear. For every 1 million iPhone sold there is one million iPhone user guaranteed to surf the web using 3G if available without the need of tethering (meaning more time using the internet on the train, bus, in the bathroom... etc).



    Your argument is flawed since you can only get the most of other phone capabilities by using them as a modems!!



    Pretty funny.



    What are we supposed to believe, the iPhone is a bad phone because you can't add a two thousand dollar lap computer tethered to it to surf the web?



    Tethering a cellphone to a lap computer allows the LAP computer to access more data.

    The cell phone can access the same amount of data, at the same speed. The lap computer doesn't change the speed of the radio in the cellphone, it doesn't change the frequency of the cell phone, it doesn't change the cell phone's data throughput in any way. The ONLY thing the laptop does is supply a disk drive and for THAT you could use the cloud.



    The LAPTOP can access more data if IT IS tethered, the cell phone just gets more expensive to have to do that. If you buy a NICE laptop, you don't need to tether it or plug anything into it because it talks to the cell tower itself.



    Lame..... lame.... lame...... same old lame stuff we're hearing.

    Next thing we'll hear, if the iPhone could tether it would solve the cut-copy-paste capability because you could do that on the laptop......
  • Reply 51 of 84
    I don't think that he was meaning to say it can handle more date. But when tethering, you have the ability to simulate more traffic.....much more than just browsing and watching Youtube.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wbrasington View Post


    Tethering a phone doesn't allow it to handle more data.

    Get real, or get lost.



  • Reply 52 of 84
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by quinney View Post


    If the flaky behavior is truly related to inadequate capacity, that would lead to an

    interesting dilemma. Cap the 3G speed and have more reliable but slower connections

    vs. uncap the 3G speed and have faster but less reliable connections. Which alternative

    is better for iPhone users?




    The best alternative is the one we paid for, and for what they are advertising.

    Not something else ...
  • Reply 53 of 84
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post


    I don't think that he was meaning to say it can handle more date. But when tethering, you have the ability to simulate more traffic.....much more than just browsing and watching Youtube.



    That makes even less sense.

    Why would running youtube on my laptop handle different data than youtube on my phone?

    This only makes sense to people with a phone that can't really do the internet, a phone that only does cut down hacked web viewing stuff. For THAT kind of phone, you need the laptop to give you a real browser.

    Sine the iPhone gives you a realistic view of the internet, it isn't required to drag around your laptop so as to surf the web.

    Of course, if you want to visit flash sites, then you need an expensive laptop and tethering.

    Since I disable flash on my laptop, I have no real advantage on my laptop over my phone other than screen size. Certainly, tethering doesn't "allow my phone to handle more data".
  • Reply 54 of 84
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    How you can say it sounds fishy and at the same time claim that internet companies have ways to manage data is beyond me. Unless you are telling me that you never lost an internet connection,



    I don't remember ever losing a connection because of excessive demand clogging the tubes. It just got slower, that's all.



    Quote:

    or better yet, everybody is getting 100% satisfaction surfing and transferring data via their pcs. I don't think so.



    I didn't say that.



    I have had other problems with internet services, but they weren't because of excess user demand.
  • Reply 55 of 84
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stukdog View Post


    It's amazing how much cell companies get away with around the world. False advertising, price gouging, and breaking contracts.



    How much longer until some serious change? I thought Apple was going to provoke it when they first released with AT&T, but now even Apple has fallen in line.



    The most important words --- "around the world".



    American carriers get a lot of flak for "falling behind" many European countries in terms of 3G, lineline broadband, fiber to the homes....



    The truth is that many European carriers lied about their networks in their advertisements.



    American carriers are pretty clear about their advertised speeds --- both AT&T and Verizon advertised both the peak speed and average speed of their 3G networks (average 3G speed being around 700 kbps to 1000 kbps). European carriers will lie and say that their networks as 7.2 mbps (some even advertising it as a 14 mbps network). It's the same 3G network --- just different ways of advertising it.



    Same thing with broadband speed --- a lot of people like to talk about how the US is falling behind everybody in broadband speed. The fact is that carriers around the world just lie about their broadband speed.



    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12...el_speed_code/
  • Reply 56 of 84
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mirak63 View Post


    The best alternative is the one we paid for, and for what they are advertising.

    Not something else ...



    Obviously, but if that one is not currently available, which of the alternatives

    (which might be currently possible) would users prefer?
  • Reply 57 of 84
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I don't remember ever losing a connection because of excessive demand clogging the tubes. It just got slower, that's all.



    I didn't say that.



    I have had other problems with internet services, but they weren't because of excess user demand.



    My experience is otherwise. Although I do admit that it is better. In particular my own service is running at 9MBs, which is one reason I am not moving.



    However, we are not talking about land lines. Wireless is separate issue, which by nature is affected by more factors than a squirrel nibbling through a Category 5 Cable.
  • Reply 58 of 84
    Can u use bit torrent on your iPhone and get a connection up to 600k and keep it up for hours at a time?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wbrasington View Post


    That makes even less sense.

    Why would running youtube on my laptop handle different data than youtube on my phone?

    This only makes sense to people with a phone that can't really do the internet, a phone that only does cut down hacked web viewing stuff. For THAT kind of phone, you need the laptop to give you a real browser.

    Sine the iPhone gives you a realistic view of the internet, it isn't required to drag around your laptop so as to surf the web.

    Of course, if you want to visit flash sites, then you need an expensive laptop and tethering.

    Since I disable flash on my laptop, I have no real advantage on my laptop over my phone other than screen size. Certainly, tethering doesn't "allow my phone to handle more data".



    I've downloaded over 8G in one month via tethering. This was before the cap was replaced, using a lowly old Samsung Blackjack.
  • Reply 59 of 84
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post


    if he's a fan boy and then you are the anti-fan boy. You do nothing but complain about the Apple products and even when faced with obvious truth (surfing on the iPhone is faster than any 7.2's, the iPhone has the fastest processor of any mobile out there right now) you quibble and go after another argument - lately it's this tethering argument.



    Yes you have got me, I am really anti Apple, I better sell my three Macs, and my five iPods since I have such a hatred for the company
  • Reply 60 of 84
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macapptraining View Post


    iPhone is still ahead of the times... Relying so heavily on the Internet connection and 3g, the cell companies can't keep. It's sad. But this should get the cell companies in gear to improve their speeds, availability.



    ok, since everyone is bitching I will explain what I meant, in relation to the original message I replied to.



    Let's break it down...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macapptraining View Post


    iPhone is still ahead of the times...



    Actually that's impossible



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macapptraining View Post


    Relying so heavily on the Internet connection and 3g, the cell companies can't keep.



    Well yes, I agree, the iPhone does rely heavily on its internet connection, it can't connect to the internet without it.



    3G? I'm not sure, there seems to be a lot of moaning on these forums regarding its ability to handle 3G properly. Of course the 3G on the iPhone is handling both voice and data, and numerous people are saying to switch back to GSM, perhaps we will forget about the 3G bit this time around.



    The cell companies can't keep.. I will assume there has to be an 'up' at the end of that sentence, I know we shouldn't assume, but I will in this case.



    Now, I live in a European country (by membership if people want to argue the toss about it), but I am not from one. Ireland has had mobile networks for a number of years, so has my home country, both have been handling CSD for a long time, GPRS for at over 8 years, and 3G for a number of years now.



    All these data methods have been used, from the device itself, or tethered for a long, long time.



    To imply that the addition of 2 million devices, in an annual market of 1.2 billion devices is going to make the networks fall to their knees is a little naive.



    In saying that, these network providers also have networks they have invested a massive amount of money into, they will want to place limits to ensure the service is available for everyone, they are not going to spend extra providing bandwidth if they don't have to.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macapptraining View Post


    It's sad.



    It is.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macapptraining View Post


    But this should get the cell companies in gear to improve their speeds, availability.



    Why? There are lot of people using 3G devices happily now, either the device itself, or tether to other devices with a larger screen than the standard cellphone, other devices (cameras, machinery etc).



    'macapptraining' referred to the device putting through a lot of data (well that what I assumed they meant with the 'Relying so heavily on the Internet connection and 3g'). I never said anything about the processor speed of the iPhone, or the speed of the iPhones 3G chipset (which is a moot point as there is so many complaints about both, infact are we not commenting on a thread regarding a provider limiting the speed on their 3G network, so the chips speed is irreverent.



    Now, putting through more data. The iPhone can browse the web, it can stream approved data with approved applications from the App Store. It can download email.



    There is a number of things you cannot do on it, which you can from a tethered device, say download flash animations, connect to the App Store and download apps that Apple will not allow OTA, video conference, run voip apps.



    I could name a number of devices that could put through a lot of data (the GSM ones are gone from my memory, it has been a very long time since I used them for data). You could list the Ericcson R520 for GPRS, the N95, my E65, the N96 etc etc.



    They might have a slower 3G chip than the iPhone, but it certainly doesn't mean they will not transfer as much, if not more data
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