I would agree that iTunes never should have been a video app, and should only handle music.
If Apple released an "iTheatre" or whatever app that I could drop all my .mkv and .avi files into and have it deal with those files as well as iTunes deals with .mp3 files, I would be all over it. It would also mean that my 'Music' folder doesn't end up being full of videos and iPhone apps.
I think if Apple had split iTunes at an earlier stage, it could have worked out. At the moment iPhoto is a separate app. Mail is a separate app. iCal and Address Book are separate apps. Yet all of these are synced via iTunes. Hell, remember when iSync used to do the calendar and address synching?
But possibly the biggest barrier to breaking down iTunes now is Windows. Because it has to be a cross-platform app it is easier for Apple, and PC users, just to have one app that does everything they need to work with their iPod/iPhone. I can't imagine PC users would be happy downloading two or three apps just to use their new iPod.
The other major difficulty is the iTunes (music) Store which is so tightly integrated with iTunes. It sells music, videos and apps now. iTunes ends up handling everything, and in a way that is kind of convenient, even if it means it has become horribly bloated.
Eventually I do think Apple will have to overhaul iTunes, if only to make it a 64-bit cocoa app without all those wacky custom widgets.
True, and I hate it, but the answer to preventing iTunes AND iPhoto opening up is not to have iTunes Music, iTunes Video and iPhoto open up. I would like a "whisper sync" method that would do everything without having to call these large apps every time.
I don't think it's a matter of having to have apps open up, per se. It seems like Apple could just work to get logical functions paired a little better, which in the past has married with a single app that reflects those functions. If I'm wanting to watch, create, rip, or integrate a movie or tv show (or any other video including video podcasts) I would love to be able to do that in one app. If I want to listen to music via stream (radio or otherwise), my collection, or perhaps via a remote device, I would do that in iTunes, etc. The great thing about the model Apple's employed in the past is that there's always been an understanding that users might look at this thing any number of different ways, for example getting to iTMS is something you'll like want in all these apps, but they will start on the video or audio page and have the ability to go to another other part of the store. Even better, when you download music while in the video app, the music app would just launch after the install.
Another reason why this is cool in my head is I'm thinking about what comes next with Kindle and Apple's genuine opportunity to make eReading a great line of business with the rumored larger mobile device. Wouldn't it be great to have a reader app that integrated Preview, among others? And even better, the guts of Pages could be exploited for publication creation and integration. It just seems like the opportunity to build beautiful, highly functional applications that work like people work is endless but might have gotten lost with iTunes bloat.
I do like your whisper sync idea. A perfect compliment to the Utopia I've got running around in my head...
If I'm wanting to watch, create, rip, or integrate a movie or tv show (or any other video including video podcasts) I would love to be able to do that in one app.
Ripping probably won't happen, even though making backup copies is fine by law. The MPAA certainly doesn't want you taking your movies off the discs and changing the format to some DRM-free. I think the plan to put movies in MP4 and WMV on the DVD with the movie is a decent idea.
iSquint and Visual Hub are pretty decent. They put the converted files into iTunes for you. My only issue is that you can't choose the video type before hand so they all show as Movies and they have to be edited with correct info. Since VisuaHub is a paid app I'd like them pull the DVD info from a DB and then set it up correctly, and have TV Shows be listed as TV Shows.
Quote:
Even better, when you download music while in the video app, the music app would just launch after the install.
A bit of segue, one my pet peeves about iTunes is that when I import stuff via drag and drop it plays it, even if playing something else at the time. Okay, that is enough complaining about iTunes.
Quote:
Another reason why this is cool in my head is I'm thinking about what comes next with Kindle and Apple's genuine opportunity to make eReading a great line of business with the rumored larger mobile device.
eBooks on the iTS would be great. I've book some books from the iTunes App Store and the formatting was fine for reading. I think I could read books on my computer, and would most likely get an eReader.
If there was anything in that quote that was a personal attack, please point it out. If telling someone they make no sense is a personal attack, than calling me 'dude' is a personal attack, DUDE!
Who is dumb enough to believe a MOCKUP and a DRAWING? Kevin Rose apparently has nothing better to do than make shit up. If he claims to know about iTunes 8, then post a real screen shot, don't take iTunes 7 and use little pointers of where he claims new features will be.
If there was anything in that quote that was a personal attack, please point it out. If telling someone they make no sense is a personal attack, than calling me 'dude' is a personal attack, DUDE!
I'm done with this place.
People would get offended if you told them to grow a set, when in reality that's what they need to do. But don't worry, Barackus Obamas is here to apologize for all of us and make nice.
sorry but I disagree. itunes as a one stop shop is what makes the most sense for the most people. remember the power users like yourself are only perhaps 5% of the computer users out there. perhaps much less.
and I disagree that being the OSS for syncing is what might make itunes bloated or that it is an unnecessary bloat. Microsoft Office for the Mac is 200MB and most of it is tons of clip art and crap. now that is bloat. itunes and the library file is maybe 1/4 that.
Probably depends on how you define 'one stop shop'. If you mean the store, then yes, I'd agree that it all needs to be there in one place but there's no reason in the world why you can't get there from more than one application. Apple's been designing things like this for years because not everyone has the same opinion as to where they logically will go to find what they're looking for.
I think the intent of the term 'bloat' was more to describe the interface than to describe app sizing. We're way past really caring how big an app is unless it impacts performance. There's a reason Google has so much white space on their main page. Every interface architect I've ever worked alongside will say the same thing about whitespace and simplicity and the virtue of breaking down tasks at the top level of any activity - keep like functions together.
What I've noticed in supporting Mac users is a consistent desire to have these like functions together. The folks I work with think music, movies, documents, etc. rather than rip, watch/listen, buy, etc. They seem to turn the intangible into something tangible. This makes sense to me when I they increasingly ask me for help with iTunes rather than help using productivity apps. They don't understand why they create smart groupings for their music and wind up with videos and other stuff in there. They see this as illogical, and I completely agree.
My wife, for example, could really care less about the one stop shop. She wants control over her music for her iPhone and she wants to see our shared movies and photos from time to time. She never thinks of any of this in terms of wanting to go to one place for all of it. These are discrete activities or functions for her, and that's wholly consistent with the behavior my customers exhibit. iTunes' interface has gotten so cluttered most don't know where to start. Sadly, that wasn't an issue before and when you hear your longest customers saying they wish they had the old iTunes back that's a red flag to get back to the usability studies Apple's so renowned for during new product development cycle, and perhaps less prone to reexamine with their more successful offerings (or perhaps they're not taking the 'jury' approach to make sure their subjects have no exposure to earlier versions).
A bit of segue, one my pet peeves about iTunes is that when I import stuff via drag and drop it plays it, even if playing something else at the time. Okay, that is enough complaining about iTunes.
Dang, me too. Just did this last night and irked me for the 50,000th time. But yah, you're right, I need to turn it off and let the Apple Product Fairy come tonight, and just maybe we'll get something really cool tomorrow. Preferably something I can install at no cost that will make my existing life easier!
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
eBooks on the iTS would be great. I've book some books from the iTunes App Store and the formatting was fine for reading. I think I could read books on my computer, and would most likely get an eReader.
With you there. Been enjoying reading on my iPhone and really eager to have every one of the classics loaded on this newfangled device while I'm nodding off under some beach umbrella. Amazon's proving there's a market here and the timing feels a lot like when Apple entered the music market to me. Though they've experimented in this space before, I'd bet they're smart enough to acknowledge there's a real opportunity now.
How about they implement this one interface change:
Move the "browse" button to the main toolbar!! And second, change it from that strange eye icon.
I have talked to several people who claim they don't like iTunes because it's hard to find music by a certain artist, a certain song, a certain album, etc. I tell them when you use the Browse feature, it's easy. "What's that?" is the most common reply. So, i tell them to click the "eye button" down in the lower right, which makes the iTunes interface infinitely more user friendly.
I have no idea why 1) Browse-mode isn't enabled by default (when you install itunes for the first time, it just gives you a big long list), 2) it looks like and eye (i "get it", conceptually, but surely they can create a better icon), and 3) why it's buried in the lower-right corner, where very few people look. It should be promoted in a prominent spot in the main toolbar!
I actually agree with that. It makes no sense to me why Apple has done this.
-------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol
Yes...what the *bad word* is wrong with opening another app and syncing movies to your iPod? It makes lots of sense. YOU make little sense. iTunes can't be the end-all app that syncs everything but the kitchen sink (haha) to your iPod...because that makes it unnecessarily bloated.
Listen to what you're saying, man. What if I told you "So... to read e-mail or browse the web on Mac OS X, you'll need to open two applications? That makes little sense. E-mail and browsing the web are two internet-related activities and should be combined into one app."
My donkey it does. YOU make no sense.
I think you should watch what your saying. Someone said watch the personal attacks. I agree!
------
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol
If there was anything in that quote that was a personal attack, please point it out. If telling someone they make no sense is a personal attack, than calling me 'dude' is a personal attack, DUDE!
I actually agree with that. It makes no sense to me why Apple has done this.
I agree with the move to the bottom and making it smaller.. It was a really big button on the toolbar and probably the least used. I'm sure some people like to turn it on and off often depending on what thy do but I don't see it as being very common.
Scratch the music and video playback. maybe they need something like AT&T has for activating iPhones. Like the mini-player in iTunes, but this only shows you info for syncing, no burning, no music, no Apple Store, no opening the full iTunes just to charge and do a sync. Honestly, I don't think any of this ideas are practical but I try to see thing the opposing argument. Sometimes it's just not that easy.
1) Strip the iTunes store out of iTunes to a store application or just a website. Strip out syncing entirely. Publish an open spec for managing the iTunes Library so Windows weenies can use other music managers without the heavyweight Apple-esque weird interface of iTunes.
2) Add iPod, AppleTV and iPhone support into iSync. It has plugins for each set of data you want to sync just as you've got in iTunes already. If you attach an iPod/iPhone it opens iSync. Port iSync and SyncServices to Windows. Make it lightweight. Add MobileMe support in iSync instead of it being separate. Add Notes, Todo, Documents folder support.
3) Add a video/movie/TV show version of iTunes and include iMovie08 library support.
Comments
If Apple released an "iTheatre" or whatever app that I could drop all my .mkv and .avi files into and have it deal with those files as well as iTunes deals with .mp3 files, I would be all over it. It would also mean that my 'Music' folder doesn't end up being full of videos and iPhone apps.
I think if Apple had split iTunes at an earlier stage, it could have worked out. At the moment iPhoto is a separate app. Mail is a separate app. iCal and Address Book are separate apps. Yet all of these are synced via iTunes. Hell, remember when iSync used to do the calendar and address synching?
But possibly the biggest barrier to breaking down iTunes now is Windows. Because it has to be a cross-platform app it is easier for Apple, and PC users, just to have one app that does everything they need to work with their iPod/iPhone. I can't imagine PC users would be happy downloading two or three apps just to use their new iPod.
The other major difficulty is the iTunes (music) Store which is so tightly integrated with iTunes. It sells music, videos and apps now. iTunes ends up handling everything, and in a way that is kind of convenient, even if it means it has become horribly bloated.
Eventually I do think Apple will have to overhaul iTunes, if only to make it a 64-bit cocoa app without all those wacky custom widgets.
True, and I hate it, but the answer to preventing iTunes AND iPhoto opening up is not to have iTunes Music, iTunes Video and iPhoto open up. I would like a "whisper sync" method that would do everything without having to call these large apps every time.
I don't think it's a matter of having to have apps open up, per se. It seems like Apple could just work to get logical functions paired a little better, which in the past has married with a single app that reflects those functions. If I'm wanting to watch, create, rip, or integrate a movie or tv show (or any other video including video podcasts) I would love to be able to do that in one app. If I want to listen to music via stream (radio or otherwise), my collection, or perhaps via a remote device, I would do that in iTunes, etc. The great thing about the model Apple's employed in the past is that there's always been an understanding that users might look at this thing any number of different ways, for example getting to iTMS is something you'll like want in all these apps, but they will start on the video or audio page and have the ability to go to another other part of the store. Even better, when you download music while in the video app, the music app would just launch after the install.
Another reason why this is cool in my head is I'm thinking about what comes next with Kindle and Apple's genuine opportunity to make eReading a great line of business with the rumored larger mobile device. Wouldn't it be great to have a reader app that integrated Preview, among others? And even better, the guts of Pages could be exploited for publication creation and integration. It just seems like the opportunity to build beautiful, highly functional applications that work like people work is endless but might have gotten lost with iTunes bloat.
I do like your whisper sync idea. A perfect compliment to the Utopia I've got running around in my head...
If I'm wanting to watch, create, rip, or integrate a movie or tv show (or any other video including video podcasts) I would love to be able to do that in one app.
Ripping probably won't happen, even though making backup copies is fine by law. The MPAA certainly doesn't want you taking your movies off the discs and changing the format to some DRM-free. I think the plan to put movies in MP4 and WMV on the DVD with the movie is a decent idea.
iSquint and Visual Hub are pretty decent. They put the converted files into iTunes for you. My only issue is that you can't choose the video type before hand so they all show as Movies and they have to be edited with correct info. Since VisuaHub is a paid app I'd like them pull the DVD info from a DB and then set it up correctly, and have TV Shows be listed as TV Shows.
Even better, when you download music while in the video app, the music app would just launch after the install.
A bit of segue, one my pet peeves about iTunes is that when I import stuff via drag and drop it plays it, even if playing something else at the time. Okay, that is enough complaining about iTunes.
Another reason why this is cool in my head is I'm thinking about what comes next with Kindle and Apple's genuine opportunity to make eReading a great line of business with the rumored larger mobile device.
eBooks on the iTS would be great. I've book some books from the iTunes App Store and the formatting was fine for reading. I think I could read books on my computer, and would most likely get an eReader.
If there was anything in that quote that was a personal attack, please point it out. If telling someone they make no sense is a personal attack, than calling me 'dude' is a personal attack, DUDE!
I'm done with this place.
Aw, c'mon... come back and play nice!
If there was anything in that quote that was a personal attack, please point it out. If telling someone they make no sense is a personal attack, than calling me 'dude' is a personal attack, DUDE!
I'm done with this place.
People would get offended if you told them to grow a set, when in reality that's what they need to do. But don't worry, Barackus Obamas is here to apologize for all of us and make nice.
sorry but I disagree. itunes as a one stop shop is what makes the most sense for the most people. remember the power users like yourself are only perhaps 5% of the computer users out there. perhaps much less.
and I disagree that being the OSS for syncing is what might make itunes bloated or that it is an unnecessary bloat. Microsoft Office for the Mac is 200MB and most of it is tons of clip art and crap. now that is bloat. itunes and the library file is maybe 1/4 that.
Probably depends on how you define 'one stop shop'. If you mean the store, then yes, I'd agree that it all needs to be there in one place but there's no reason in the world why you can't get there from more than one application. Apple's been designing things like this for years because not everyone has the same opinion as to where they logically will go to find what they're looking for.
I think the intent of the term 'bloat' was more to describe the interface than to describe app sizing. We're way past really caring how big an app is unless it impacts performance. There's a reason Google has so much white space on their main page. Every interface architect I've ever worked alongside will say the same thing about whitespace and simplicity and the virtue of breaking down tasks at the top level of any activity - keep like functions together.
What I've noticed in supporting Mac users is a consistent desire to have these like functions together. The folks I work with think music, movies, documents, etc. rather than rip, watch/listen, buy, etc. They seem to turn the intangible into something tangible. This makes sense to me when I they increasingly ask me for help with iTunes rather than help using productivity apps. They don't understand why they create smart groupings for their music and wind up with videos and other stuff in there. They see this as illogical, and I completely agree.
My wife, for example, could really care less about the one stop shop. She wants control over her music for her iPhone and she wants to see our shared movies and photos from time to time. She never thinks of any of this in terms of wanting to go to one place for all of it. These are discrete activities or functions for her, and that's wholly consistent with the behavior my customers exhibit. iTunes' interface has gotten so cluttered most don't know where to start. Sadly, that wasn't an issue before and when you hear your longest customers saying they wish they had the old iTunes back that's a red flag to get back to the usability studies Apple's so renowned for during new product development cycle, and perhaps less prone to reexamine with their more successful offerings (or perhaps they're not taking the 'jury' approach to make sure their subjects have no exposure to earlier versions).
A bit of segue, one my pet peeves about iTunes is that when I import stuff via drag and drop it plays it, even if playing something else at the time. Okay, that is enough complaining about iTunes.
Dang, me too. Just did this last night and irked me for the 50,000th time. But yah, you're right, I need to turn it off and let the Apple Product Fairy come tonight, and just maybe we'll get something really cool tomorrow. Preferably something I can install at no cost that will make my existing life easier!
eBooks on the iTS would be great. I've book some books from the iTunes App Store and the formatting was fine for reading. I think I could read books on my computer, and would most likely get an eReader.
With you there. Been enjoying reading on my iPhone and really eager to have every one of the classics loaded on this newfangled device while I'm nodding off under some beach umbrella. Amazon's proving there's a market here and the timing feels a lot like when Apple entered the music market to me. Though they've experimented in this space before, I'd bet they're smart enough to acknowledge there's a real opportunity now.
How about they implement this one interface change:
Move the "browse" button to the main toolbar!! And second, change it from that strange eye icon.
I have talked to several people who claim they don't like iTunes because it's hard to find music by a certain artist, a certain song, a certain album, etc. I tell them when you use the Browse feature, it's easy. "What's that?" is the most common reply. So, i tell them to click the "eye button" down in the lower right, which makes the iTunes interface infinitely more user friendly.
I have no idea why 1) Browse-mode isn't enabled by default (when you install itunes for the first time, it just gives you a big long list), 2) it looks like and eye (i "get it", conceptually, but surely they can create a better icon), and 3) why it's buried in the lower-right corner, where very few people look. It should be promoted in a prominent spot in the main toolbar!
I actually agree with that. It makes no sense to me why Apple has done this.
-------------------------------------------------
Yes...what the *bad word* is wrong with opening another app and syncing movies to your iPod? It makes lots of sense. YOU make little sense. iTunes can't be the end-all app that syncs everything but the kitchen sink (haha) to your iPod...because that makes it unnecessarily bloated.
Listen to what you're saying, man. What if I told you "So... to read e-mail or browse the web on Mac OS X, you'll need to open two applications? That makes little sense. E-mail and browsing the web are two internet-related activities and should be combined into one app."
My donkey it does. YOU make no sense.
I think you should watch what your saying. Someone said watch the personal attacks. I agree!
------
If there was anything in that quote that was a personal attack, please point it out. If telling someone they make no sense is a personal attack, than calling me 'dude' is a personal attack, DUDE!
I'm done with this place.
k thanks bye.
I actually agree with that. It makes no sense to me why Apple has done this.
I agree with the move to the bottom and making it smaller.. It was a really big button on the toolbar and probably the least used. I'm sure some people like to turn it on and off often depending on what thy do but I don't see it as being very common.
Scratch the music and video playback. maybe they need something like AT&T has for activating iPhones. Like the mini-player in iTunes, but this only shows you info for syncing, no burning, no music, no Apple Store, no opening the full iTunes just to charge and do a sync. Honestly, I don't think any of this ideas are practical but I try to see thing the opposing argument. Sometimes it's just not that easy.
iPodSync
<image>
iPodSync
It would be great if iSync would still work for a quick sync.
1) Strip the iTunes store out of iTunes to a store application or just a website. Strip out syncing entirely. Publish an open spec for managing the iTunes Library so Windows weenies can use other music managers without the heavyweight Apple-esque weird interface of iTunes.
2) Add iPod, AppleTV and iPhone support into iSync. It has plugins for each set of data you want to sync just as you've got in iTunes already. If you attach an iPod/iPhone it opens iSync. Port iSync and SyncServices to Windows. Make it lightweight. Add MobileMe support in iSync instead of it being separate. Add Notes, Todo, Documents folder support.
3) Add a video/movie/TV show version of iTunes and include iMovie08 library support.
AND FFS make it Cocoa.
I think a lot of us owe Rose an apology for calling him a liar about his sources. He was pretty spot on this time around.
Eh, I'm sure he saw it coming. I'm also sure a lot of people would still call him names because they'd love to have his sources...