If they remove the current FW400 port, that must mean that they are going to change the design of the current Cinema Displays as well...
In the words of Slip Mahoney "leave us not forget that Apple has said all displays will be LED lit by the end of 2009, and youse gotta start someplace"
Also, next Tuesday, 9/30, is the Jewish New Year and many people are off work both the 30th and the 1st. The following week contains another religious holiday. So, my guess is that the 14th is acurate as it gets past the religious holidays and allows ample time for the channel to fill....imho
And surely the new entry level Macbook won't still ship with just a combo drive?
Sticking with a combo drive is just barmy and reflects badly on Apple...even if it is the entry level product.
Get with the times Apple.
A combo drive is cheap, which keeps the bottom of the line machine cheap.
That's how Apple could (HOPEFULLY) get get back to the $999 price point with the new bottom-of-the-line MacBook.
Remember that aside from the clearly superior Mac OS X, Apple builds a lot more stuff into their machines than the generic box-stuffers. FireWire, Airport, Bluetooth, remote control, dual-monitor support. None of it is free.
A combo drive is cheap, which keeps the bottom of the line machine cheap.
That's how Apple could (HOPEFULLY) get get back to the $999 price point with the new bottom-of-the-line MacBook.
Remember that aside from the clearly superior Mac OS X, Apple builds a lot more stuff into their machines than the generic box-stuffers. FireWire, Airport, Bluetooth, remote control, dual-monitor support. None of it is free.
There are some on these forums (read: Lemon Bon Bon & Cory Bauer) that will try to convince you that Apple's notebooks are overpriced by comparing one element without looking at the whole machine, but the Combo Drive does look pretty antiquated. Surely a 9.5mm slot-loading drive costs more than a clunky 25mm tray-loading alternative, but the price difference between DVD burning and only reading DVDs isn't very much. I'd say that they offer these for education, but of that is the case I don't think they should be in the consumer lineup as the default option for the $1099 model. They have also stopped shipping the remote control with each mac, which is fine by me as I have too many anyways and have only ever used it with the AppleTV.
Other OEMs may not come with BT or 802.11n, or DVI, like you said, but it's hard to sell that as an added value to someone who can only see the simplest of specs because that is all they understand.
Mini-DVI doesn't support high-res displays so it would be a bad move but then again, I don't see that many people would need to drive higher than 1920x1200 resolution. People who complain about this stuff likely don't even own a display that goes that high. It's usually more about spec than practicality.
If any of these measures are cost-cutting measures then I say bring them on.
Displayport would be great and a solution to the issue but I can't see Apple jumping this quickly onto a technology with so little support right now.
The firewire 800 decision makes sense. It's not taking off because people just stick with FW400. If they are forced to go to extra lengths to use FW400 devices, it encourages people to transition to FW800.
I'm concerned about a few things though. The design description for one - the black look really isn't a nice look. The change to the display output suggests to me that there will be some common ground in graphics cards between MB and MBP (I think they will just be called MB from now on) and I just hope that the low end goes up rather than the high end coming down.
A combo drive is cheap, which keeps the bottom of the line machine cheap.
That's how Apple could (HOPEFULLY) get get back to the $999 price point with the new bottom-of-the-line MacBook.
Remember that aside from the clearly superior Mac OS X, Apple builds a lot more stuff into their machines than the generic box-stuffers. FireWire, Airport, Bluetooth, remote control, dual-monitor support. None of it is free.
The combo drive is not cheap. They're manufactured in such low volume now that they cost *more* than DVD burners. Apple uses them purely to create a distinction between products.
And I've got news for you... that "lot more stuff" is in almost every laptop over $600.
And I've got news for you... that "lot more stuff" is in almost every laptop over $600.
Not from my experience. You don't usually find 802.11n or Gigabit Ethernet. BT is often not there, and if IEEE-1394(FireWire400) is there it won't power over the port. Then you have the issue with using the older CPU. chipset, and RAM, most of which was never top-end even when it was new.
So Apple is a smart company (obviously) - what's to keep them from making a docking station that you slide into on 1 side that hooks up to your DVI and FW 800 port? Isn't that enough to communicate between the station and MBP? It could power the laptop via FW as well as have externals hooked up through that interface and it wouldn't take away from the aesthetics of the laptop for those that don't want it.
I'm sure there's some caveat I'm missing but doesn't this seem like a fairly simple solution? (Admittedly it's probably much too simple...)
If they've dropped FW400, then they are going to FW3200.
It would be insane to do otherwise. Introducing FW3200 next year would cause a riot.
And regarding the DVI port, it would seem they are moving to whatever new standard they have chosen, and the new Cinema Displays will be offered to match. If you don't like adapters, Jobs expects you to buy a new machine and display.
One for a Titanium PowerBook, with ports in the back.
One for an aluminum PowerBook with the side ports.
It was really quite a nice solution for my home office. It worked pretty well, but the side-ported one took up quite a bit of space!
Apple certainly could produce a dockable MacBook Pro with a docking station. But, It's really a niche product. The amount of R&D and other money and time spent on producinng and marketing such a thing, recoup and profit from the investment just isn't worth it. Why do you think that the PowerDook Duo was the LAST officially dockable Mac?
Apple tends to leave such products with limited appeal to third-party developers.
The combo drive is not cheap. They're manufactured in such low volume now that they cost *more* than DVD burners. Apple uses them purely to create a distinction between products.
Yup.
If Apple put a SuperDrive in the base config. then nobody would buy the middle of the range machine.
I don't know why people always go on about a docking station for Mac laptops. does anyone outside of IBM *ever* use a docking station?
In my experience it's a concept that has it's roots in the 1990's and has now virtually died out. I work at a major University and get to see hundreds of computer set-ups in hundreds of offices over the last 20 years or so. I have rarely seen anyone use a docking station and it was always some died-in-the-wool conservative using a ThinkPad and MS Windows when I did see one.
I have also never had a Mac user, *ever* turn to me when consulting about their computer needs and say that they wished they had a docking port or a docking station. Unless I am completely misunderstanding what you are talking about, I just don't see how any appreciable group of Mac users actually want this.
And who outside of Apple uses a "MAC"? Mac users complain about software developers who use the "only 10 percent market share" argument for not making Mac versions of their applications. They complain about web site owners who use the "Macs are niche market" argument for not making their web sites compatible with Safari. It's ironic how these same Mac users now use the same "low market share" argument to dismiss ideas for improving Macs.
If you look back, the FW1600 spec was finalized and it took about 3 years for a company to sample a chip that supported FW1600.
Google search turned up nobody for FW3200 chips, and given that the spec was only recently finalized a short time ago, and that the rest of the world is looking at eSATA for higher-end drives, and USB 3.0 for general usage, how is Apple going to drive adoption for FW3200? USB 3 is more than fast enough to transfer HD video from camera's, and volume production will keep prices for everything related to USB 3 significantly cheaper than even FW800, let alone FW3200.
Those "docking stations" are a hack. Since those Mac laptops do not have a standard docking connector, each laptop model requires a different Bookendz product. They couldn't make a single docking station that works with different Mac laptops. The Bookendz for MacBook and MacBook Pro can't provide power and charging because third parties are not able to make Magsafe compatible products.
The iPhone and iPod only have 2 connectors, yet Apple makes a dock for those. If Apple can justify a docking connector for iPhones and iPods, they can certainly justify making a docking connector and a dock for laptops that have nearly a dozen connectors.
If you look back, the FW1600 spec was finalized and it took about 3 years for a company to sample a chip that supported FW1600.
Google search turned up nobody for FW3200 chips, and given that the spec was only recently finalized a short time ago, and that the rest of the world is looking at eSATA for higher-end drives, and USB 3.0 for general usage, how is Apple going to drive adoption for FW3200? USB 3 is more than fast enough to transfer HD video from camera's, and volume production will keep prices for everything related to USB 3 significantly cheaper than even FW800, let alone FW3200.
FireWire uses it's own controller, USB uses the CPU. USB's actual speed will almost NEVER match the specs. FireWire is simply more efficient for use with mass storage devices. I'm not sure of all the actual nuts and bolts, but it's easy to find the info elsewhere.
As Mac market share increases, FireWire's "legitimacy" will increase in the eyes of the masses. It's already a standard on high-end video and photographic equipment. We in the Mac universe already know FireWire's superiority through 10 years actual use.
There's room for FireWire, eSATA and USB (for input and low throughput devices).
The iPhone and iPod only have 2 connectors, yet Apple makes a dock for those. If Apple can justify a docking connector for iPhones and iPods, they can certainly justify making a docking connector and a dock for laptops that have nearly a dozen connectors.
I don't see the correlation. iDevices cannot stand up by themselves so there Apple and 3rd-party solutions for docks integrated with other functions, which is something that most people don't need with a laptop. The dock tray that supply with each iDevice is just a cheap plastic mold that doesn't detract from the aesthetics, structure, design or manufacturing of the device in any way.
Besides, the ADC connector worked so well for Apple and got such great support.
ADC was proprietary, DisplayPort is standards-based, backwards compatible* with DVI/HDMI video signals, supports HDCP and is already being used by other PC manufacturers.
* That means it already has support and is more future-proof, to boot.
Comments
If they remove the current FW400 port, that must mean that they are going to change the design of the current Cinema Displays as well...
In the words of Slip Mahoney "leave us not forget that Apple has said all displays will be LED lit by the end of 2009, and youse gotta start someplace"
And surely the new entry level Macbook won't still ship with just a combo drive?
Sticking with a combo drive is just barmy and reflects badly on Apple...even if it is the entry level product.
Get with the times Apple.
A combo drive is cheap, which keeps the bottom of the line machine cheap.
That's how Apple could (HOPEFULLY) get get back to the $999 price point with the new bottom-of-the-line MacBook.
Remember that aside from the clearly superior Mac OS X, Apple builds a lot more stuff into their machines than the generic box-stuffers. FireWire, Airport, Bluetooth, remote control, dual-monitor support. None of it is free.
A combo drive is cheap, which keeps the bottom of the line machine cheap.
That's how Apple could (HOPEFULLY) get get back to the $999 price point with the new bottom-of-the-line MacBook.
Remember that aside from the clearly superior Mac OS X, Apple builds a lot more stuff into their machines than the generic box-stuffers. FireWire, Airport, Bluetooth, remote control, dual-monitor support. None of it is free.
There are some on these forums (read: Lemon Bon Bon & Cory Bauer) that will try to convince you that Apple's notebooks are overpriced by comparing one element without looking at the whole machine, but the Combo Drive does look pretty antiquated. Surely a 9.5mm slot-loading drive costs more than a clunky 25mm tray-loading alternative, but the price difference between DVD burning and only reading DVDs isn't very much. I'd say that they offer these for education, but of that is the case I don't think they should be in the consumer lineup as the default option for the $1099 model. They have also stopped shipping the remote control with each mac, which is fine by me as I have too many anyways and have only ever used it with the AppleTV.
Other OEMs may not come with BT or 802.11n, or DVI, like you said, but it's hard to sell that as an added value to someone who can only see the simplest of specs because that is all they understand.
If any of these measures are cost-cutting measures then I say bring them on.
Displayport would be great and a solution to the issue but I can't see Apple jumping this quickly onto a technology with so little support right now.
The firewire 800 decision makes sense. It's not taking off because people just stick with FW400. If they are forced to go to extra lengths to use FW400 devices, it encourages people to transition to FW800.
I'm concerned about a few things though. The design description for one - the black look really isn't a nice look. The change to the display output suggests to me that there will be some common ground in graphics cards between MB and MBP (I think they will just be called MB from now on) and I just hope that the low end goes up rather than the high end coming down.
A combo drive is cheap, which keeps the bottom of the line machine cheap.
That's how Apple could (HOPEFULLY) get get back to the $999 price point with the new bottom-of-the-line MacBook.
Remember that aside from the clearly superior Mac OS X, Apple builds a lot more stuff into their machines than the generic box-stuffers. FireWire, Airport, Bluetooth, remote control, dual-monitor support. None of it is free.
The combo drive is not cheap. They're manufactured in such low volume now that they cost *more* than DVD burners. Apple uses them purely to create a distinction between products.
And I've got news for you... that "lot more stuff" is in almost every laptop over $600.
And I've got news for you... that "lot more stuff" is in almost every laptop over $600.
Not from my experience. You don't usually find 802.11n or Gigabit Ethernet. BT is often not there, and if IEEE-1394(FireWire400) is there it won't power over the port. Then you have the issue with using the older CPU. chipset, and RAM, most of which was never top-end even when it was new.
I'm sure there's some caveat I'm missing but doesn't this seem like a fairly simple solution? (Admittedly it's probably much too simple...)
I don't know why people always go on about a docking station for Mac laptops. does anyone outside of IBM *ever* use a docking station?
Can you say Powerbook Duo?
It would be insane to do otherwise. Introducing FW3200 next year would cause a riot.
And regarding the DVI port, it would seem they are moving to whatever new standard they have chosen, and the new Cinema Displays will be offered to match. If you don't like adapters, Jobs expects you to buy a new machine and display.
So Apple is a smart company (obviously) - what's to keep them from making a docking station? (Admittedly it's probably much too simple...)
Here's a docking station:
http://www.bookendzdocks.com/Docking...cBook_Pro.html
I had two different ones.
One for a Titanium PowerBook, with ports in the back.
One for an aluminum PowerBook with the side ports.
It was really quite a nice solution for my home office. It worked pretty well, but the side-ported one took up quite a bit of space!
Apple certainly could produce a dockable MacBook Pro with a docking station. But, It's really a niche product. The amount of R&D and other money and time spent on producinng and marketing such a thing, recoup and profit from the investment just isn't worth it. Why do you think that the PowerDook Duo was the LAST officially dockable Mac?
Apple tends to leave such products with limited appeal to third-party developers.
The combo drive is not cheap. They're manufactured in such low volume now that they cost *more* than DVD burners. Apple uses them purely to create a distinction between products.
Yup.
If Apple put a SuperDrive in the base config. then nobody would buy the middle of the range machine.
I don't know why people always go on about a docking station for Mac laptops. does anyone outside of IBM *ever* use a docking station?
In my experience it's a concept that has it's roots in the 1990's and has now virtually died out. I work at a major University and get to see hundreds of computer set-ups in hundreds of offices over the last 20 years or so. I have rarely seen anyone use a docking station and it was always some died-in-the-wool conservative using a ThinkPad and MS Windows when I did see one.
I have also never had a Mac user, *ever* turn to me when consulting about their computer needs and say that they wished they had a docking port or a docking station. Unless I am completely misunderstanding what you are talking about, I just don't see how any appreciable group of Mac users actually want this.
And who outside of Apple uses a "MAC"? Mac users complain about software developers who use the "only 10 percent market share" argument for not making Mac versions of their applications. They complain about web site owners who use the "Macs are niche market" argument for not making their web sites compatible with Safari. It's ironic how these same Mac users now use the same "low market share" argument to dismiss ideas for improving Macs.
Google search turned up nobody for FW3200 chips, and given that the spec was only recently finalized a short time ago, and that the rest of the world is looking at eSATA for higher-end drives, and USB 3.0 for general usage, how is Apple going to drive adoption for FW3200? USB 3 is more than fast enough to transfer HD video from camera's, and volume production will keep prices for everything related to USB 3 significantly cheaper than even FW800, let alone FW3200.
Here's a docking station:
http://www.bookendzdocks.com/Docking...cBook_Pro.html
Those "docking stations" are a hack. Since those Mac laptops do not have a standard docking connector, each laptop model requires a different Bookendz product. They couldn't make a single docking station that works with different Mac laptops. The Bookendz for MacBook and MacBook Pro can't provide power and charging because third parties are not able to make Magsafe compatible products.
The iPhone and iPod only have 2 connectors, yet Apple makes a dock for those. If Apple can justify a docking connector for iPhones and iPods, they can certainly justify making a docking connector and a dock for laptops that have nearly a dozen connectors.
If you look back, the FW1600 spec was finalized and it took about 3 years for a company to sample a chip that supported FW1600.
Google search turned up nobody for FW3200 chips, and given that the spec was only recently finalized a short time ago, and that the rest of the world is looking at eSATA for higher-end drives, and USB 3.0 for general usage, how is Apple going to drive adoption for FW3200? USB 3 is more than fast enough to transfer HD video from camera's, and volume production will keep prices for everything related to USB 3 significantly cheaper than even FW800, let alone FW3200.
FireWire uses it's own controller, USB uses the CPU. USB's actual speed will almost NEVER match the specs. FireWire is simply more efficient for use with mass storage devices. I'm not sure of all the actual nuts and bolts, but it's easy to find the info elsewhere.
As Mac market share increases, FireWire's "legitimacy" will increase in the eyes of the masses. It's already a standard on high-end video and photographic equipment. We in the Mac universe already know FireWire's superiority through 10 years actual use.
There's room for FireWire, eSATA and USB (for input and low throughput devices).
The iPhone and iPod only have 2 connectors, yet Apple makes a dock for those. If Apple can justify a docking connector for iPhones and iPods, they can certainly justify making a docking connector and a dock for laptops that have nearly a dozen connectors.
I don't see the correlation. iDevices cannot stand up by themselves so there Apple and 3rd-party solutions for docks integrated with other functions, which is something that most people don't need with a laptop. The dock tray that supply with each iDevice is just a cheap plastic mold that doesn't detract from the aesthetics, structure, design or manufacturing of the device in any way.
Displayport would be great and a solution to the issue but I can't see Apple jumping this quickly onto a technology with so little support right now.
Besides, the ADC connector worked so well for Apple and got such great support.
Besides, the ADC connector worked so well for Apple and got such great support.
ADC was proprietary, DisplayPort is standards-based, backwards compatible* with DVI/HDMI video signals, supports HDCP and is already being used by other PC manufacturers.
* That means it already has support and is more future-proof, to boot.