What about the Mac Mini?

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  • Reply 81 of 94
    phongphong Posts: 219member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PB View Post


    Hardmac too confirms. It was AI's sources that gave it the EOL status long ago, no?



    Very long ago. So long that AI's sources later said that it was due for a significant update, which was back in March.



    The Mini's death has been predicted year after year by others. Trouble is, it hasn't been updated year after year either.
  • Reply 82 of 94
    mcarlingmcarling Posts: 1,106member
    At amazon.com, the Mini outsells the iMac. If the Mini is selling so well, perhaps it doesn't need an update yet. Perhaps we'll see an updated Mini only after the iMacs have been updated.
  • Reply 83 of 94
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,375moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post


    At amazon.com, the Mini outsells the iMac. If the Mini is selling so well, perhaps it doesn't need an update yet. Perhaps we'll see an updated Mini only after the iMacs have been updated.



    The matte MBP also outsells every other model. Guess those people aren't any of the capital V Vast majority.



    The Mini is even more popular than the old Macbook on Amazon. Perhaps it's only selling well now that people have the rumor Apple are murdering it. I like the word murder as it sounds more criminal than killing.



    It makes no sense to get rid of it. When the Mini represented good value, it sold well:



    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._analysts.html



    If they try to sell two year old hardware with no price drop, people aren't going to keep buying. This is also going to create another firewire scenario. If they remove it, what are people supposed to do to upgrade? Move to a Mac Pro? They can't move to an iMac as it's not the same setup and it costs nearly double.
  • Reply 84 of 94
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    The matte MBP also outsells every other model. Guess those people aren't any of the capital V Vast majority.



    Hey I have a Matte MBP, it is nice but lets be honest it is far from the last word in a portable computer screen.

    Quote:



    The Mini is even more popular than the old Macbook on Amazon. Perhaps it's only selling well now that people have the rumor Apple are murdering it. I like the word murder as it sounds more criminal than killing.



    I really don't get this attitude, for more than a year everybody has been whining about how the Mini needs an update and then when the signs seem to indicate that that is about to happen we get this emotional crap. People should be ecstatic that the current Mini is no longer available because that means Apple has new products coming on line. Frankly coming on line sooner than many thought.



    I mean lets face it after the mac Book updates many weren't expecting anything new until MWSF. This could be an indication that Apple will have something significant for the Christmas shopping season. This actually could be seen a a change in tactics at Apple.

    Quote:



    It makes no sense to get rid of it. When the Mini represented good value, it sold well:



    Makes all the sense in the world! I mean really I don't get it, Apple has the opportunity to do what every one has been crying in their milk about for more than a year and now it makes no sense. Look at it this way Apple has just about all the ingredients in place to make a major transition here. It has new Nvidia chips, Intel chips and manufacturing techniques. I can't believe you guys are so blind that you can't see the good things are about to happen.

    Quote:



    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._analysts.html



    If they try to sell two year old hardware with no price drop, people aren't going to keep buying. This is also going to create another firewire scenario. If they remove it, what are people supposed to do to upgrade? Move to a Mac Pro? They can't move to an iMac as it's not the same setup and it costs nearly double.



    Again whining about something that isn't even here serves no purpose at all. The fact is the computer industry is in a era of major transition. Between DisPlay Port at one end and SSD at the other backward compatibility is going to be hard to maintain while moving forward. Instead of looking at it as a negative, extract the good things out of it.



    As a side note if those Firewire devices are hard drives shouldn't you be thinking about updating them anyways? Frankly the whine about not being able to use a five year old disk drive, with a Firewire interface, on a new Mac is getting a little OLD. Why would one bother with one of the least reliable devices on the market on a brand new Mac?



    Dave
  • Reply 85 of 94
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Why would one bother with one of the least reliable devices on the market on a brand new Mac?



    Huh?
  • Reply 86 of 94
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,375moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Hey I have a Matte MBP, it is nice but lets be honest it is far from the last word in a portable computer screen.



    I was just saying it's one of the best selling models.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I really don't get this attitude, for more than a year everybody has been whining about how the Mini needs an update and then when the signs seem to indicate that that is about to happen we get this emotional crap. People should be ecstatic that the current Mini is no longer available because that means Apple has new products coming on line. Frankly coming on line sooner than many thought.



    The rumor is of the Mini being discontinued, not of being updated. People have been told to expect no further orders.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I mean lets face it after the mac Book updates many weren't expecting anything new until MWSF.



    I was expecting everything to be updated before then. Core i7 is out in November for the Mac Pro.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I can't believe you guys are so blind that you can't see the good things are about to happen.



    I'm sure we can all see what could happen but Apple could have done this many times and has simply not bothered. However, they have shown time and time again that all they like is the iMac and this rumor of the Mini being discontinued with the constant mentions of not wanting to make cheap machines and the price increases in the laptop line. I'm not expecting great things from them.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Instead of looking at it as a negative, extract the good things out of it.



    If they discontinue the Mini, there are no good things to come out of it if they don't replace it with something better.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    As a side note if those Firewire devices are hard drives shouldn't you be thinking about updating them anyways? Frankly the whine about not being able to use a five year old disk drive, with a Firewire interface, on a new Mac is getting a little OLD. Why would one bother with one of the least reliable devices on the market on a brand new Mac?



    I don't want this thread to turn into a firewire debate but what you said makes no sense. Brand new devices come with firewire and my devices are actually just a year old and completely reliable - as well as 30% faster than the USB equivalent.
  • Reply 87 of 94
    My stupid $0.02 . . .



    I've just converted to all iMacs from PCs. I had also planned to buy at least two additional, MacMinis to use as home theater PCs (HTPCs), until I read the MacRumors Buyers' Guide recommendation. Here's what I think (based on nothing more than my own stupid thoughts) that Apple had initially planned for the MacMini, and what they may be preparing for its future . . .



    1. The MacMini's original product concept was to provide an entry-level, "platform-switching" product, targeted to PC users. The success of this strategy, I imagine, is unknown.

    2. The AppleTV product may eclipse the MacMini as a more "modern" product concept in Apple's view.

    3. Since margins are important to Apple, and the fact that a "power-user" MacMini would potentially cannibalize sales of 20" iMacs, I would expect Apple not to invest any further resources in a product that may or may not have succeeded toward achieving its intended marketing tactic, and/or may have out-lived out its initial purpose (converting PC users to Macs with lower-price point product).

    4. I highly doubt that any significantly new or different form factors are likely to be introduced by Apple anytime soon, or ever. No brick, no cube, no mini-tower. Maybe, a tablet someday.

    5. As mentioned here previously, that if anything, isn't it far more likely that the AppleTV product would be beefed up to serve as an HTPC, rather than investing more resources in making a more powerful MacMini--you know, in that corporate, bean-counter, bottom-line kinda way of thinking?



    That being said, a slightly more capable MacMini would be welcome news. Its form factor makes for a great home theater PC, although I still don't get the reasons for the complete absence of any HDMI I/O among any of Apple's current line-up. Home theater was my initial application for my intended purchase of two MacMinis, but as far as I know, there remain a number of issues with audio-over-DVI.



    Regardless of these estimations, the MacMini is still so attractive to me in so many ways. Its form factor is what makes the mini unique. They can serve as STBs, HTPCs, home automation PCs, surveillance control systems (although no OS X-based software exists for these applications), kiosk machines, and my most-favored, most-anticipated application, electronic video art installations. The MacMini is such a special, neat little machine. For hobbyists, for educators, kids, grandmas, etc, they're just great little machines for those applications and those users which DON'T need a lot of power or capability. Does the Gizmodo article portend EOL for the mini, or a new model refresh for the holidays? I really hope it's the latter, but, I'm guessing it'll be the former. Guess I'll just hold my breath (c'mon Apple, refresh the MacMini and I'll buy a huge pile of 'em!).
  • Reply 88 of 94
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    We could all sit here arguing why or why not the mini should or should not stick around, but the bottom line is it likely doesn't sell well enough or make enough profit per unit for Apple. We can scream and shout all we want, but my hunch is it's only a matter of time until the mini disappears from Apple's stores, online and physical.
  • Reply 89 of 94
    phongphong Posts: 219member
    I don't understand the notion that a midrange Mini would cannibalize sales from the iMac. The products would be built for very different markets. The iMac is for grandmas, people who like shiny things, and others who don't think much about a computer purchase. The Mid-mini would be for those who used to be (possibly still are) the backbone of the consumer level computer market -- geeks, artists, and people interested in technology. People who think different. Remember them? There are a lot and they don't need to buy another monitor.
  • Reply 90 of 94
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Phong


    I don't understand the notion that a midrange Mini would cannibalize sales from the iMac.



    Well start understanding cause I've personally heard people debate, which to buy; the mini or the iMac.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Phong


    The iMac is for grandmas, people who like shiny things, and others who don't think much about a computer purchase.



    That's just downright rude. Besides, the best business practice is not to only sell to those you think will buy, but to everyone who does. You are fooling yourself if that's how you view the iMac.
  • Reply 91 of 94
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    That's pretty much how I view the iMac too, so Phong's not alone.
  • Reply 92 of 94
    robb01robb01 Posts: 148member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    We could all sit here arguing why or why not the mini should or should not stick around, but the bottom line is it likely doesn't sell well enough or make enough profit per unit for Apple. We can scream and shout all we want, but my hunch is it's only a matter of time until the mini disappears from Apple's stores, online and physical.



    I agree, this is just a smart business decision folks



    ________________

  • Reply 93 of 94
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,375moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 460FILMS View Post


    The AppleTV product may eclipse the MacMini as a more "modern" product concept in Apple's view.



    It's a different market though. The current high end ATV is $329 and the low end Mini is $599. If they remove the optical drive from the current Mini and bring the price in line with what the components are worth, it could go down to maybe $399. This runs the full OS X system and it has a better CPU and would run a good bit cooler than the current ATV so in that respect, it would make a pretty good ATV upgrade.



    If they updated it to newer chips and Nvidia GPUs, the price wouldn't drop though and I think they may have to as they can't order any more of the chips inside them. It also would be simply a TV device with component and HDMI outputs and it wouldn't need the newer components. The Nvidia chipset could make it into a decent home gaming system though - it would compete with the Wii and games could be downloaded over the itunes store.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 460FILMS View Post


    I highly doubt that any significantly new or different form factors are likely to be introduced by Apple anytime soon, or ever. No brick, no cube, no mini-tower. Maybe, a tablet someday.



    It would be a shame. I saw one of the little Dell towers today and I thought it was great. It might have been the optiplex:



    http://www.dell.com/content/products...555&l=en&s=biz



    Far left of the options. It's the Dell Optiplex 755 Ultra Small Form factor. I configured one with a 3.33GHz Core 2 Duo. It came to $1325. The iMac tops out at 3.06GHz and it costs $2199. The Dell only has integrated Intel X3100 graphics though. Apple using Nvidia integrated would get round this.



    It was in a doctor's consulting office I saw it next to a window hooked up to a matte LCD viewing X-Rays. The whole hospital had the same models in every consultation room (I say every room but it was really just a lot of rooms because I got lost, I probably counted some twice - seriously, what is up with the sign posts in those places?).



    For there being no market for this, there sure were a lot of doctors using them. Not grandmas, not TV addicts, professionals who need to get serious work done. I'm sure if they had an easy to use unix system, they'd manage a little better. But hey who cares about doctors, dentists, architects, lawyers (you can ignore lawyers) - all those professionals who just need an affordable, attractive little headless desktop.



    Of course, who's to say they would switch but there is certainly no incentive to do so without something to switch to.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iDave


    That's pretty much how I view the iMac too, so Phong's not alone.



    Me too. Everybody I know who has them conform to that description. It won't apply to everyone so people who own an iMac shouldn't think it applies to them automatically. The selling point is simplicity and that doesn't affect me at all. I couldn't care less if there were a hundred cables behind my machine. I know what they all do and where they're supposed to go. What I care about is being able to replace components when they fail so I can have as little downtime as possible. Basic users don't care about this. They can live quite happily with their machine at the repair center for 2-3 weeks.
  • Reply 94 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Phong View Post


    I don't understand the notion that a midrange Mini would cannibalize sales from the iMac. The products would be built for very different markets. The iMac is for grandmas, people who like shiny things, and others who don't think much about a computer purchase. The Mid-mini would be for those who used to be (possibly still are) the backbone of the consumer level computer market -- geeks, artists, and people interested in technology. People who think different. Remember them? There are a lot and they don't need to buy another monitor.



    Well, as wholly segregated as Apple's non-laptop product line is, I stand behind my cannibalization argument. Look at their current line-up: MacMini, iMac, or, big, expensive MacPro tower. Nothing "in-between." This forces the consumer to make a pretty decided choice among three highly differentiated product lines. Plus, the fact that not everyone cares if their display's cosmetics don't match their machine's. And the trend that third-party display prices are dropping through the floor, furthers the argument. A power-user MacMini would definitely cannibalize a portion of potential iMac sales, but if its introduction also increases sales overall, then it's a go.



    This analysis tasks every product manager who has to decide on what to include and what not to include in future product offerings. Companies have to adopt the "optimum" selection of tiered feature sets and price points in order to maximize sales, and their respective margins, across the brand. Every company has to parse their products in this manner. This is exactly why companies differentiate their products in seemingly unsatisfying ways (at least to the customer). And this is one of the things Apple seems to do best--differentiating its products "just enough" to make you want the higher-end model instead. Say, for example, you like the iMac form factor, but want more than 4GB of RAM--sorry, you have to buy the more expensive, MacPro tower--there is no other option. And that's the way Apple wants it. This is why I never expect to see a "mini-tower" or any other "in-between" product from Apple in this generation (maybe a tablet). Apple garners more revenue, and at the same time conserves both manufacturing resources and inventory overhead by not supporting additional product SKUs.



    Coming from the broadcast world, the ENG television camera market is similarly highly segregated between models. From both Sony and Panasonic, there's the ultra-cheap, sub-$10,000 prosumer models, the mid-range, $15-25,000 models, and the super-duper, $40,000-$100,000 ultra-cool models. Never do they seem to introduce something "just right," in-between those highly stratified price plateaus (although, this is starting to change).
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