Yeah, but secondhand from Calcanis is better than first hand for most. Like Calcanis or more likely not, it's pretty true.
Although I think Apple should have gone this route before, I'm not so confident they'll release a real TV at this point. With companies like Sony, Sharp, Vizeo, Samsung, Ölevia, etc. constantly undercutting each other and fighting over very slim profits over HDTVs, I'm not sure there's a calculus that works for this kind of product in the "depression" we now find ourselves in. I'm sure Apple would go for the luxury-end of the market that tends to be less affected by sluggish economic conditions, but still... I just don't see it.
If on the other hand, a larger version of the iPod touch (5.5"x8.5") that competes with other ultra-portable computers and things like Kindle is about to be released, I could see the market demand for such a product. There would really be no major competition for such a thing at this point.
Although I think Apple should have gone this route before, I'm not so confident they'll release a real TV at this point. With companies like Sony, Sharp, Vizeo, Samsung, Ölevia, etc. constantly undercutting each other and fighting over very slim profits over HDTVs, I'm not sure there's a calculus that works for this kind of product in the "depression" we now find ourselves in. I'm sure Apple would go for the luxury-end of the market that tends to be less affected by sluggish economic conditions, but still... I just don't see it.
If on the other hand, a larger version of the iPod touch (5.5"x8.5") that competes with other ultra-portable computers and things like Kindle is about to be released, I could see the market demand for such a product. There would really be no major competition for such a thing at this point.
I'm not so confident they'll release a real TV at this point. With companies like Sony, Sharp, Vizeo, Samsung, Ölevia, etc. constantly undercutting each other and fighting over very slim profits over HDTVs, I'm not sure there's a calculus that works for this kind of product in the "depression" we now find ourselves in. I'm sure Apple would go for the luxury-end of the market that tends to be less affected by sluggish economic conditions, but still... I just don't see it.
That's what I have been saying all along. But I disagree with one point:
With Apple indeed comes with a TV, I think will be a cheap version with AppleTV built in. So when AppleTV becomes obsolete, consumer will not feel strapped in updating it.
Most consumers keep their TVs for years. Unlikely the fast pace of technology product that costs $200 like AppleTV that can be purchase every few years without breaking the bank.
We will see. I believe it when Steve announces it.
Apple needs to revamp the AppleTV box big time. The way they are now is not very successful and is not selling well. I do hope Apple will come with killer features on the next incarnation. If they eventually get a solid product their chances to expand it to a TV or something else will have much more impact bringing people to consider buying it.
Let's hope something cool is coming. But mostly important, please focus on computers! I do miss the times computers were their main priority. Killer laptops and professional products please!
Wanting a PVR or DVR is really missing the point I think. What would you rather; being able to record your favo(u)rite show, or being able to stream any show from the iTunes store any time via a subscription service?
That would be nice, but does Apple really have sufficient variety of material to make it comparable? And does it have a chance of being competitive for the typical family?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis
Instead of building a better TV, they could just make their computers better TVs, or well more specifically the iMac a better TV since it already looks like one, add a 32" to the line (what are 32"+ displays going for these days anyway?) and build in an ATSC tuner (at least make this a BTO option for a few of their computers)
TV panels make for poor computer panels, and computer panels make for expensive TV panels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
As I stated a while back; there's also the possibility they might self-subsidize the product a little, if they decide to sell it with an iPTV service. Which isn't unthinkable.
I think it's an open question whether or how long the ISPs will allow that, as it is competition to services that they provide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
We'll see if "Calcanis" is right on this one. I suspect he is.
He said Apple was working on it. Even if it is true, that doesn't mean it becomes a product. I get the picture that Apple works on lots of stuff that doesn't doesn't get made into a selling product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me
Plasma, high end? Surely, you jest. Plasma displays are cheaper than LCD displays of equal size. They are also consume more energy, weigh more, and are advancing more slowly.
Plasmas span a wider range, some are cheaper, some are more expensive with a wider gamut and effective contrast ratio that LCDs still can't compete with. Plasmas aren't competitive except for 42" sizes and above. Last I looked, plasmas aren't so bad with energy. Some even had lower energy ratings than LCDs.
TV panels make for poor computer panels, and computer panels make for expensive TV panels.
Yeah, he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. TV's are a "completely" different animal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
He said Apple was working on it. Even if it is true, that doesn't mean it becomes a product. I get the picture that Apple works on lots of stuff that doesn't doesn't get made into a selling product.
True, but if there ever was a rumor that could come through it's this one. Given the direction the company is obviously heading in lately.
Low end - 36" - 42" LCD(in around that sweet spot)
High end - 46" - 50" Plasma.
This will never happen this way, but it would be sweet if it did. This would make pretty much all eager buyers happy. The LCD would sell probably 5X more than the plasma, but the plasma would be more expensive and be a higher profit maker. Wins all round.
The general consumer gets their cheaper Apple Tele, and the videophiles get their juicy professional plasma. Woot!
If you're listening Apple, you know what to do. Cause I won't be buying an LCD from you, or anyone, ever again. You need to make a TV, but I don't need one that bad. If you don't release a plasma I'm getting myself a Pioneer Kuro - no question!
Instead of building a better TV, they could just make their computers better TVs, or well more specifically the iMac a better TV since it already looks like one, add a 32" to the line (what are 32"+ displays going for these days anyway?)
Good 30" displays are still kinda expensive. A 30"+ iMac as a TV suffers from needing a lot resolution for someone using it from 2 feet away and being moderately small for TV viewing from 8 feet away.
Sony would never partner with Apple but Samsung might. Not sure why it would bother though.
An Apple branded TV is unlikely given that it's an annoying thing to build well. By well I mean to be able to take sources in from anyone and make it work right without needing an external boxes anyway. If you have to have a Comcast box anyway, parking an aTV next to or on top of it is not a big deal vs integrating it into the TV. In fact it's better given that I can put it in the same rack as everything else.
Low end - 36" - 42" LCD(in around that sweet spot)
High end - 46" - 50" Plasma.
This will never happen this way, but it would be sweet if it did. This would make pretty much all eager buyers happy. The LCD would sell probably 5X more than the plasma, but the plasma would be more expensive and be a higher profit maker. Wins all round.
Maybe you didn't notice but plasma is cheaper by the hour, & dying. Even Panasonic/Pioneer is making the transition to large LED-backlit LCD's with ultra-fast refresh rate. LCD has caught up where plasma dominated, and Plasma cannot do vice versa. OLED will likewise twist the knife in LED-Backlit LCD in 5-7 years.
But...
I'd be interested to see how crazy the price for a 52" Apple LCD would be...?
If it's low enough, and cool enough, I would consider dumping my 47" HDTV LCD computer monitor.
Now just gimme a high capacity iPhone that is also my universal remote, to match.
Maybe you didn't notice but plasma is cheaper by the hour, & dying. Even Panasonic/Pioneer is making the transition to large LED-backlit LCD's with ultra-fast refresh rate. LCD has caught up where plasma dominated, and Plasma cannot do vice versa. OLED will likewise twist the knife in LED-Backlit LCD in 5-7 years.
....
Exactly. Sony abandoned plasma displays years ago. Circuit City's website lists 132 LCD models, but only 18 plasma models. Plasma fairs better at Best Buy. Best Buy lists 153 LCDs and 39 plasma models. No matter how you slice it or dice it, plasma displays used to be the dominant technology in flat panels. Despite the fact that they are cheaper, plasma displays are an also-ran.
Maybe you didn't notice but plasma is cheaper by the hour, & dying. Even Panasonic/Pioneer is making the transition to large LED-backlit LCD's with ultra-fast refresh rate.
On the contrary Panasonic announced they were quitting the LCD business to concentrate solely on the Plasma business. That happened in late 2007. And Pioneer do not make LCD's. I don't know where you're getting your information from, cause as far as I'm concerned you just made it up. In fact I think you did. Where you're getting mixed up is Pioneer are continuing to make their plasmas, but they are now buying the display part from Panasonic.
Plasma is not dying anytime soon. There's a market and it's a highly profitable one. Sure, it's more niche'y then the LCD market, but it's not going to die.
Like I said; make a consumer LCD model and a Pro plasma model. The "perfect" solution. They'll sell a more of the LCD models, but they'll make a lot more profit per unit on a quite large plasma.
Comments
...Love him or hate him, the bloke's got contacts, and he confirmed to me that he knew first-hand that Apple was working on a networked television...
If he only heard it from a contact, wouldn't that be second-hand information?
Yes, if I had one I wouldn't have come to the AI forums this morning in the first place.
Exactly, stay off and get one.
If he only heard it from a contact, wouldn't that be second-hand information?
Yeah, but secondhand from Calcanis is better than first hand for most. Like Calcanis or more likely not, it's pretty true.
Yeah, but secondhand from Calcanis is better than first hand for most. Like Calcanis or more likely not, it's pretty true.
Although I think Apple should have gone this route before, I'm not so confident they'll release a real TV at this point. With companies like Sony, Sharp, Vizeo, Samsung, Ölevia, etc. constantly undercutting each other and fighting over very slim profits over HDTVs, I'm not sure there's a calculus that works for this kind of product in the "depression" we now find ourselves in. I'm sure Apple would go for the luxury-end of the market that tends to be less affected by sluggish economic conditions, but still... I just don't see it.
If on the other hand, a larger version of the iPod touch (5.5"x8.5") that competes with other ultra-portable computers and things like Kindle is about to be released, I could see the market demand for such a product. There would really be no major competition for such a thing at this point.
We'll see Tuesday.
Although I think Apple should have gone this route before, I'm not so confident they'll release a real TV at this point. With companies like Sony, Sharp, Vizeo, Samsung, Ölevia, etc. constantly undercutting each other and fighting over very slim profits over HDTVs, I'm not sure there's a calculus that works for this kind of product in the "depression" we now find ourselves in. I'm sure Apple would go for the luxury-end of the market that tends to be less affected by sluggish economic conditions, but still... I just don't see it.
If on the other hand, a larger version of the iPod touch (5.5"x8.5") that competes with other ultra-portable computers and things like Kindle is about to be released, I could see the market demand for such a product. There would really be no major competition for such a thing at this point.
We'll see Tuesday.
Or perhaps on a Friday.
I'm not so confident they'll release a real TV at this point. With companies like Sony, Sharp, Vizeo, Samsung, Ölevia, etc. constantly undercutting each other and fighting over very slim profits over HDTVs, I'm not sure there's a calculus that works for this kind of product in the "depression" we now find ourselves in. I'm sure Apple would go for the luxury-end of the market that tends to be less affected by sluggish economic conditions, but still... I just don't see it.
That's what I have been saying all along. But I disagree with one point:
With Apple indeed comes with a TV, I think will be a cheap version with AppleTV built in. So when AppleTV becomes obsolete, consumer will not feel strapped in updating it.
Most consumers keep their TVs for years. Unlikely the fast pace of technology product that costs $200 like AppleTV that can be purchase every few years without breaking the bank.
We will see. I believe it when Steve announces it.
We will see. I believe it when Steve announces it.
I still may not believe it if he announces it.
I still may not believe it if he announces it.
Another point Spam.
Apple needs to revamp the AppleTV box big time. The way they are now is not very successful and is not selling well. I do hope Apple will come with killer features on the next incarnation. If they eventually get a solid product their chances to expand it to a TV or something else will have much more impact bringing people to consider buying it.
Let's hope something cool is coming. But mostly important, please focus on computers! I do miss the times computers were their main priority. Killer laptops and professional products please!
I still may not believe it if he announces it.
This is AI's best user!
Wanting a PVR or DVR is really missing the point I think. What would you rather; being able to record your favo(u)rite show, or being able to stream any show from the iTunes store any time via a subscription service?
That would be nice, but does Apple really have sufficient variety of material to make it comparable? And does it have a chance of being competitive for the typical family?
Instead of building a better TV, they could just make their computers better TVs, or well more specifically the iMac a better TV since it already looks like one, add a 32" to the line (what are 32"+ displays going for these days anyway?) and build in an ATSC tuner (at least make this a BTO option for a few of their computers)
TV panels make for poor computer panels, and computer panels make for expensive TV panels.
As I stated a while back; there's also the possibility they might self-subsidize the product a little, if they decide to sell it with an iPTV service. Which isn't unthinkable.
I think it's an open question whether or how long the ISPs will allow that, as it is competition to services that they provide.
We'll see if "Calcanis" is right on this one. I suspect he is.
He said Apple was working on it. Even if it is true, that doesn't mean it becomes a product. I get the picture that Apple works on lots of stuff that doesn't doesn't get made into a selling product.
Plasma, high end? Surely, you jest. Plasma displays are cheaper than LCD displays of equal size. They are also consume more energy, weigh more, and are advancing more slowly.
Plasmas span a wider range, some are cheaper, some are more expensive with a wider gamut and effective contrast ratio that LCDs still can't compete with. Plasmas aren't competitive except for 42" sizes and above. Last I looked, plasmas aren't so bad with energy. Some even had lower energy ratings than LCDs.
TV panels make for poor computer panels, and computer panels make for expensive TV panels.
Yeah, he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. TV's are a "completely" different animal.
He said Apple was working on it. Even if it is true, that doesn't mean it becomes a product. I get the picture that Apple works on lots of stuff that doesn't doesn't get made into a selling product.
True, but if there ever was a rumor that could come through it's this one. Given the direction the company is obviously heading in lately.
High end - 46" - 50" Plasma.
This will never happen this way, but it would be sweet if it did. This would make pretty much all eager buyers happy. The LCD would sell probably 5X more than the plasma, but the plasma would be more expensive and be a higher profit maker. Wins all round.
The general consumer gets their cheaper Apple Tele, and the videophiles get their juicy professional plasma. Woot!
If you're listening Apple, you know what to do. Cause I won't be buying an LCD from you, or anyone, ever again. You need to make a TV, but I don't need one that bad. If you don't release a plasma I'm getting myself a Pioneer Kuro - no question!
Exactly, stay off and get one.
That's rich coming from you.
Instead of building a better TV, they could just make their computers better TVs, or well more specifically the iMac a better TV since it already looks like one, add a 32" to the line (what are 32"+ displays going for these days anyway?)
Good 30" displays are still kinda expensive. A 30"+ iMac as a TV suffers from needing a lot resolution for someone using it from 2 feet away and being moderately small for TV viewing from 8 feet away.
Sony would never partner with Apple but Samsung might. Not sure why it would bother though.
An Apple branded TV is unlikely given that it's an annoying thing to build well. By well I mean to be able to take sources in from anyone and make it work right without needing an external boxes anyway. If you have to have a Comcast box anyway, parking an aTV next to or on top of it is not a big deal vs integrating it into the TV. In fact it's better given that I can put it in the same rack as everything else.
Low end - 36" - 42" LCD (in around that sweet spot)
High end - 46" - 50" Plasma.
This will never happen this way, but it would be sweet if it did. This would make pretty much all eager buyers happy. The LCD would sell probably 5X more than the plasma, but the plasma would be more expensive and be a higher profit maker. Wins all round.
Maybe you didn't notice but plasma is cheaper by the hour, & dying. Even Panasonic/Pioneer is making the transition to large LED-backlit LCD's with ultra-fast refresh rate. LCD has caught up where plasma dominated, and Plasma cannot do vice versa. OLED will likewise twist the knife in LED-Backlit LCD in 5-7 years.
But...
I'd be interested to see how crazy the price for a 52" Apple LCD would be...?
If it's low enough, and cool enough, I would consider dumping my 47" HDTV LCD computer monitor.
Now just gimme a high capacity iPhone that is also my universal remote, to match.
See you @ the drop.
Maybe you didn't notice but plasma is cheaper by the hour, & dying. Even Panasonic/Pioneer is making the transition to large LED-backlit LCD's with ultra-fast refresh rate. LCD has caught up where plasma dominated, and Plasma cannot do vice versa. OLED will likewise twist the knife in LED-Backlit LCD in 5-7 years.
....
Exactly. Sony abandoned plasma displays years ago. Circuit City's website lists 132 LCD models, but only 18 plasma models. Plasma fairs better at Best Buy. Best Buy lists 153 LCDs and 39 plasma models. No matter how you slice it or dice it, plasma displays used to be the dominant technology in flat panels. Despite the fact that they are cheaper, plasma displays are an also-ran.
That's rich coming from you.
Mega rich!
Maybe you didn't notice but plasma is cheaper by the hour, & dying. Even Panasonic/Pioneer is making the transition to large LED-backlit LCD's with ultra-fast refresh rate.
On the contrary Panasonic announced they were quitting the LCD business to concentrate solely on the Plasma business. That happened in late 2007. And Pioneer do not make LCD's. I don't know where you're getting your information from, cause as far as I'm concerned you just made it up. In fact I think you did. Where you're getting mixed up is Pioneer are continuing to make their plasmas, but they are now buying the display part from Panasonic.
Plasma is not dying anytime soon. There's a market and it's a highly profitable one. Sure, it's more niche'y then the LCD market, but it's not going to die.
Like I said; make a consumer LCD model and a Pro plasma model. The "perfect" solution. They'll sell a more of the LCD models, but they'll make a lot more profit per unit on a quite large plasma.
ECircuit City's website lists 132 LCD models, but only 18 plasma models.
So, if 'number of models' is an important criterion, you'll be buying a Windows PC rather than a Mac, I presume?