I really hope it is more of a 40-50 inch iMac with TV capabilities rather than a TV with AppleTV built in. Lots of video content on the Internet, but Apple has to get over their Flash video phobia. Also, they don't need high resolution. At times, I think 720p is just fine too, so they don't have to make everything top of the line.
Pioneer is not abandoning plasma business. They are outsourcing some of their components to another companies to stay afloat (low profit margins in this segment). The have been in the red for many years and this year will be the last year you will buy a Pioneer display that's almost all Pioneer. Next generation (10th) they will use Panasonic glass and other components from different manufactures. If they will keep their quality at the best on the business, remains to be seem. Also next generation Pioneer will introduce lcd displays using panels from Sharp.
For argument sake. If Apple indeed creates this plasma 50", 60" or larger with the latest AppleTV tech built in, how much do you guys think it will cost?
Pioneer is the gold standard for picture quality on plasmas. Their 60" Elite displays has a MSRP of US$6500 and street price goes as low as $5100 before taxes and shipping. (that's what I paid anyway) So if Apple go that direction creating a plasma display to match such hi-quality, expect it to be close to the $5k or more ballpark. Apple always charge premium for their products and they do not discount like other manufactures. So we will not see street prices lower than their MSRP.
LCDs high quality large screen sizes are not cheap either.
On top of that like I said earlier, AppleTV has to become a compelling product to people to jump in. There is too much hesitation and so far the sales for the same has not been as good as Apple expect it to be. I would think Apple will either push the limit on the next version or basically just keep considering it a hobby like Steve Jobs said not long ago. Time will tell.
I really hope it is more of a 40-50 inch iMac with TV capabilities rather than a TV with AppleTV built in. Lots of video content on the Internet, but Apple has to get over their Flash video phobia. Also, they don't need high resolution. At times, I think 720p is just fine too, so they don't have to make everything top of the line.
Plasma - bigger displays, better blacks, richer colors, wider viewing angle, better overall than LCD. Not everything that is more expensive is better. I'm looking at an LCD and a plasma right now, side by side - the LCD is bland looking, two dimensional and crappy compared to the Plasma - the blacks on the LCD are just dark gray, nowhere near the nice rich black of the plasma.
Dorfman has a small paneled room, lined with his books and sports trophies, close enough to the front door so that if Mrs. Dorfman is out, cigars can be enjoyed. There's just enough room for a leather easy chair and ottoman, where Dorfman himself presides, and a big love seat, where two men can sit without accidentally touching. The focal point of the Man Cave, of course, is the high-definition TV, a once state-of-the-art-and now relatively puny-36-in. (91 cm) liquid-crystal-display (lcd) screen. "Want to watch the Michigan game?" I asked him on a recent Saturday morning. "The Man Cave?" he offered, as usual.
"Come to my house instead," I countered. "I'm testing a new TV. It's supposed to be pretty sweet." Dorfman acquiesced, not realizing that an extremely large and powerful TV was about to rock his tiny-TV world.
Upon arrival, he was awestruck by the monolith that rose from my living-room floor like the obelisk in 2001: A Space Odyssey. "What's that?" he asked. This new HDTV was so big, I had to put it in front of the entertainment center that held my stereo and old HDTV. It was so big, it blotted out the windows and the sunshine that ordinarily would have threatened to ruin a perfect day for watching TV.
"This, my friend, is the Mitsubishi LaserVue-65 in. of blazing, high-definition fury," I said. "Is it a cheap LCD, like the one in your Man Cave? No, it is not. Is it a somewhat better plasma TV, like our neighbor has? Wrong again. The LaserVue is the first HDTV to be powered by lasers!" I paused to let Dorfman think about that, about what the world would be like with such a thing so close to the Man Cave. Then I added quietly, "It's the best home-entertainment display in America."
"How much?" he asked.
"Er, $6,999. But it uses two-thirds less power than an lcd or plasma TV."
Dorfman whistled. "We'll all be on soup lines soon, but at least we'll have great televisions."
I put on the Michigan game, which wasn't easy. Since the TV blocked the shelves that held my cable box, I had to wedge my arm between the LaserVue and the entertainment center to get the remote to work. But once we had the game on, it was worth the slight bruising: the colors were sensational and bright; the players, larger than life. I had lugged a pair of speakers up from the basement and connected them to my sound system for the full surround-sound effect, so when the band struck up the Michigan fight song ("Hail! to the victors valiant/ Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes"), Dorfman, an alumnus, brushed away a tear. Emboldened, I marveled at the superior picture quality. "Supposedly, the reds are redder," I said, pointing at the ruby ESPN logo at the top of the screen.
"Are you sure that's red?" he asked. "It looks a little off."
He was messing with my head, of course, but it shook me. I decided to call blogger Gary Merson, whose HDGuru.com is the bible of the HDTV industry, and ask him the Passover question: How is the laser HD different from all other HDTVs?
"It displays pitch-black blacks, consumes less power than a similarly sized TV and has the widest color gamut of any display ever made," he said. The reds, he noted, were a case in point. Put the LaserVue alongside Dorfman's lcd, and his reds would look orange. Indeed, the LaserVue comes closer than any TV before it to reproducing the colors one sees in a film in a movie theater. Mitsubishi, which has a lock on the technology so far, is working on a 73-in. (185 cm) LaserVue. Merson said prices (and screen sizes) would doubtless diminish over time.
Later, Dorfman took in this info and conceded that the TV was indeed awesome. "You know what would make it even better?" he asked. "If it was in the Man Cave." Yeah, right, as if it would fit.
C'mon Apple, why not start off the TV market with this big guy with double he color output, half the energy consumption, and long hardware life?
Sure they're 10in thick now, but of all company engineers that can decrease thickness, I know Apple could do this technology up right.
Regardless, would love to see an Apple branded TV...although I am certainly lusting over the LaserTV from what I've heard. Need to see one in person.
So, if 'number of models' is an important criterion, you'll be buying a Windows PC rather than a Mac, I presume?
Apples and oranges, pardon the pun. Windows and MacOS X are brands of computer operating systems. The underlying technology used to manufacture the computers is the same. LCD and plasma displays are fundamentally different technologies. Back in the day, plasma displays had 100% of the flat panel television display market. Today, that is down to somewhere between 5% and 20% and headed south.
The protests that plasma displays are superior address a completely different issue. The same was said of the CRT. The alleged superiority of the CRT did not save the technology and it won't save plasma.
I really hope it is more of a 40-50 inch iMac with TV capabilities rather than a TV with AppleTV built in. Lots of video content on the Internet, but Apple has to get over their Flash video phobia. Also, they don't need high resolution. At times, I think 720p is just fine too, so they don't have to make everything top of the line.
Except that as a desktop even 1080 is low rez at 40-50 inches.
...but like I said, hopefully in the coming months we can see for ourselves at our local electronics store.
Marzetta,
They are already on stores.
If you go to AVS some people are giving their impressions already. Some like it others don't think they are that striking.
I have an Elite Kuro and I can tell you is beautiful. If Apple ever get into the television set business, they will have a steep hill to climb to match the picture quality of some hi-end sets out there.
Better contrast, richer color, no backlight burn-through - looking with my eyes.
And if you try to argue that the laser is at a slight angle, then that makes the laser even worse if it cannot handle the little angle here, cause the Pioneer can handle far greater angles.
Note:No flash used in photo. Which makes any flash argument nonsense.
Better contrast, richer color, no backlight burn-through - looking with my eyes.
This is the same glossy vs matte issue as with the Mac laptops and iMac though. You can see very visible on-screen reflections in the plasma but glossy displays transmit light better. I personally prefer a little diffusion over sharp reflections.
Also, it could be the frame captured but the laser one looks like it has a much higher contrast ratio. I'm sure adjusting the brightness/contrast would bring them fairly close together.
The laser is also displaying presumably the same resolution image on a physically larger screen. If they were both similarly priced, I'd take the laser display.
If they were both similarly priced, I'd take the laser display.
I wouldn't myself. I'll admit it could be a number of factors, but I'd be highly surprised if it beats this Kuro. I've seen them in person and I was mesmerized.
Except that as a desktop even 1080 is low rez at 40-50 inches.
I don't think most consumers can tell the difference. It seems to me that factors other than display resolution is really driving the visual experience (room lighting; reflections; display brightness, contrast, color and image fidelity; etc.)
Even so, I'm rather indifferent on it and was just an option to make it cheaper. My vision is really a computer for the living room, not a television. Most of it is viewing Internet video and video conferencing, and most of that is like half SD to 720p at best. 1080 won't make a difference here.
If you go to AVS some people are giving their impressions already. Some like it others don't think they are that striking.
I have an Elite Kuro and I can tell you is beautiful. If Apple ever get into the television set business, they will have a steep hill to climb to match the picture quality of some hi-end sets out there.
cheers
Yes, I know they are in stores, that is what I was trying to convey. I don't doubt the Elite Kuro is stunning...I'm sure it is...I just want to see a LaserTV in person...to compare it with others.
Comments
For argument sake. If Apple indeed creates this plasma 50", 60" or larger with the latest AppleTV tech built in, how much do you guys think it will cost?
Pioneer is the gold standard for picture quality on plasmas. Their 60" Elite displays has a MSRP of US$6500 and street price goes as low as $5100 before taxes and shipping. (that's what I paid anyway) So if Apple go that direction creating a plasma display to match such hi-quality, expect it to be close to the $5k or more ballpark. Apple always charge premium for their products and they do not discount like other manufactures. So we will not see street prices lower than their MSRP.
LCDs high quality large screen sizes are not cheap either.
On top of that like I said earlier, AppleTV has to become a compelling product to people to jump in. There is too much hesitation and so far the sales for the same has not been as good as Apple expect it to be. I would think Apple will either push the limit on the next version or basically just keep considering it a hobby like Steve Jobs said not long ago. Time will tell.
I really hope it is more of a 40-50 inch iMac with TV capabilities rather than a TV with AppleTV built in. Lots of video content on the Internet, but Apple has to get over their Flash video phobia. Also, they don't need high resolution. At times, I think 720p is just fine too, so they don't have to make everything top of the line.
++++
I've though this for some time.
Plasma, high end? Surely, you jest.
Plasma - bigger displays, better blacks, richer colors, wider viewing angle, better overall than LCD. Not everything that is more expensive is better. I'm looking at an LCD and a plasma right now, side by side - the LCD is bland looking, two dimensional and crappy compared to the Plasma - the blacks on the LCD are just dark gray, nowhere near the nice rich black of the plasma.
Commercial Panasonic Plasma FTW!
http://www.time.com/time/business/ar...848456,00.html
I covet my neighbor's Man Cave.
Dorfman has a small paneled room, lined with his books and sports trophies, close enough to the front door so that if Mrs. Dorfman is out, cigars can be enjoyed. There's just enough room for a leather easy chair and ottoman, where Dorfman himself presides, and a big love seat, where two men can sit without accidentally touching. The focal point of the Man Cave, of course, is the high-definition TV, a once state-of-the-art-and now relatively puny-36-in. (91 cm) liquid-crystal-display (lcd) screen. "Want to watch the Michigan game?" I asked him on a recent Saturday morning. "The Man Cave?" he offered, as usual.
"Come to my house instead," I countered. "I'm testing a new TV. It's supposed to be pretty sweet." Dorfman acquiesced, not realizing that an extremely large and powerful TV was about to rock his tiny-TV world.
Upon arrival, he was awestruck by the monolith that rose from my living-room floor like the obelisk in 2001: A Space Odyssey. "What's that?" he asked. This new HDTV was so big, I had to put it in front of the entertainment center that held my stereo and old HDTV. It was so big, it blotted out the windows and the sunshine that ordinarily would have threatened to ruin a perfect day for watching TV.
"This, my friend, is the Mitsubishi LaserVue-65 in. of blazing, high-definition fury," I said. "Is it a cheap LCD, like the one in your Man Cave? No, it is not. Is it a somewhat better plasma TV, like our neighbor has? Wrong again. The LaserVue is the first HDTV to be powered by lasers!" I paused to let Dorfman think about that, about what the world would be like with such a thing so close to the Man Cave. Then I added quietly, "It's the best home-entertainment display in America."
"How much?" he asked.
"Er, $6,999. But it uses two-thirds less power than an lcd or plasma TV."
Dorfman whistled. "We'll all be on soup lines soon, but at least we'll have great televisions."
I put on the Michigan game, which wasn't easy. Since the TV blocked the shelves that held my cable box, I had to wedge my arm between the LaserVue and the entertainment center to get the remote to work. But once we had the game on, it was worth the slight bruising: the colors were sensational and bright; the players, larger than life. I had lugged a pair of speakers up from the basement and connected them to my sound system for the full surround-sound effect, so when the band struck up the Michigan fight song ("Hail! to the victors valiant/ Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes"), Dorfman, an alumnus, brushed away a tear. Emboldened, I marveled at the superior picture quality. "Supposedly, the reds are redder," I said, pointing at the ruby ESPN logo at the top of the screen.
"Are you sure that's red?" he asked. "It looks a little off."
He was messing with my head, of course, but it shook me. I decided to call blogger Gary Merson, whose HDGuru.com is the bible of the HDTV industry, and ask him the Passover question: How is the laser HD different from all other HDTVs?
"It displays pitch-black blacks, consumes less power than a similarly sized TV and has the widest color gamut of any display ever made," he said. The reds, he noted, were a case in point. Put the LaserVue alongside Dorfman's lcd, and his reds would look orange. Indeed, the LaserVue comes closer than any TV before it to reproducing the colors one sees in a film in a movie theater. Mitsubishi, which has a lock on the technology so far, is working on a 73-in. (185 cm) LaserVue. Merson said prices (and screen sizes) would doubtless diminish over time.
Later, Dorfman took in this info and conceded that the TV was indeed awesome. "You know what would make it even better?" he asked. "If it was in the Man Cave." Yeah, right, as if it would fit.
C'mon Apple, why not start off the TV market with this big guy with double he color output, half the energy consumption, and long hardware life?
Sure they're 10in thick now, but of all company engineers that can decrease thickness, I know Apple could do this technology up right.
Regardless, would love to see an Apple branded TV...although I am certainly lusting over the LaserTV from what I've heard. Need to see one in person.
So, if 'number of models' is an important criterion, you'll be buying a Windows PC rather than a Mac, I presume?
Apples and oranges, pardon the pun. Windows and MacOS X are brands of computer operating systems. The underlying technology used to manufacture the computers is the same. LCD and plasma displays are fundamentally different technologies. Back in the day, plasma displays had 100% of the flat panel television display market. Today, that is down to somewhere between 5% and 20% and headed south.
The protests that plasma displays are superior address a completely different issue. The same was said of the CRT. The alleged superiority of the CRT did not save the technology and it won't save plasma.
Is Laser-Powered HDTV the Highest Def Yet?
http://www.time.com/time/business/ar...848456,00.html
C'mon Apple, why not start off the TV market with this big guy with double he color output, half the energy consumption, and long hardware life?
Sure they're 10in thick now, but of all company engineers that can decrease thickness, I know Apple could do this technology up right.
Regardless, would love to see an Apple branded TV...although I am certainly lusting over the LaserTV from what I've heard. Need to see one in person.
I'm not looking forward to having my retinas burned out with high-powered radiation.
Is Laser-Powered HDTV the Highest Def Yet?
http://www.time.com/time/business/ar...848456,00.html
C'mon Apple, why not start off the TV market with this big guy with double he color output, half the energy consumption, and long hardware life?
Sure they're 10in thick now, but of all company engineers that can decrease thickness, I know Apple could do this technology up right.
Regardless, would love to see an Apple branded TV...although I am certainly lusting over the LaserTV from what I've heard. Need to see one in person.
Laser is interesting but I think is not ready for prime time yet. It might take few years if indeed this will be the new technology.
Right now the best possible picture is on Plasmas, specially the Pioneer Kuros. But again, it could be laser is the future.
AVSforum.com is a great place to get more info.
I really hope it is more of a 40-50 inch iMac with TV capabilities rather than a TV with AppleTV built in. Lots of video content on the Internet, but Apple has to get over their Flash video phobia. Also, they don't need high resolution. At times, I think 720p is just fine too, so they don't have to make everything top of the line.
Except that as a desktop even 1080 is low rez at 40-50 inches.
I'm not looking forward to having my retinas burned out with high-powered radiation.
I'm fairly certain you are joking...
...but, just in case, so that others aren't misinformed...
http://www.laservue.tv/faq.php
Laser is interesting but I think is not ready for prime time yet. It might take few years if indeed this will be the new technology.
Right now the best possible picture is on Plasmas, specially the Pioneer Kuros. But again, it could be laser is the future.
AVSforum.com is a great place to get more info.
LaserTV is already here for primetime...
http://www.laservue.tv/home.php
Moreover, it gets a good comparitive review to the Pioneer Kuro plasma here...
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article...orld-Premiere/
...but like I said, hopefully in the coming months we can see for ourselves at our local electronics store.
LaserTV is already here for primetime...
http://www.laservue.tv/home.php
Moreover, it gets a good comparitive review to the Pioneer Kuro plasma here...
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article...orld-Premiere/
...but like I said, hopefully in the coming months we can see for ourselves at our local electronics store.
Marzetta,
They are already on stores.
If you go to AVS some people are giving their impressions already. Some like it others don't think they are that striking.
I have an Elite Kuro and I can tell you is beautiful. If Apple ever get into the television set business, they will have a steep hill to climb to match the picture quality of some hi-end sets out there.
cheers
Please don't ruin the thread with pics of that nut-job.
Better contrast, richer color, no backlight burn-through - looking with my eyes.
And if you try to argue that the laser is at a slight angle, then that makes the laser even worse if it cannot handle the little angle here, cause the Pioneer can handle far greater angles.
Note: No flash used in photo. Which makes any flash argument nonsense.
Better contrast, richer color, no backlight burn-through - looking with my eyes.
This is the same glossy vs matte issue as with the Mac laptops and iMac though. You can see very visible on-screen reflections in the plasma but glossy displays transmit light better. I personally prefer a little diffusion over sharp reflections.
Also, it could be the frame captured but the laser one looks like it has a much higher contrast ratio. I'm sure adjusting the brightness/contrast would bring them fairly close together.
The laser is also displaying presumably the same resolution image on a physically larger screen. If they were both similarly priced, I'd take the laser display.
If they were both similarly priced, I'd take the laser display.
I wouldn't myself. I'll admit it could be a number of factors, but I'd be highly surprised if it beats this Kuro. I've seen them in person and I was mesmerized.
Except that as a desktop even 1080 is low rez at 40-50 inches.
I don't think most consumers can tell the difference. It seems to me that factors other than display resolution is really driving the visual experience (room lighting; reflections; display brightness, contrast, color and image fidelity; etc.)
Even so, I'm rather indifferent on it and was just an option to make it cheaper. My vision is really a computer for the living room, not a television. Most of it is viewing Internet video and video conferencing, and most of that is like half SD to 720p at best. 1080 won't make a difference here.
Marzetta,
They are already on stores.
If you go to AVS some people are giving their impressions already. Some like it others don't think they are that striking.
I have an Elite Kuro and I can tell you is beautiful. If Apple ever get into the television set business, they will have a steep hill to climb to match the picture quality of some hi-end sets out there.
cheers
Yes, I know they are in stores, that is what I was trying to convey. I don't doubt the Elite Kuro is stunning...I'm sure it is...I just want to see a LaserTV in person...to compare it with others.