Trouble is, the MacBook is a consumer level product. Or to borrow your derisive terminology, it's a notebook for the "masses." USB has been the dominant connection standard in the market for years because it's everything most people need, and because it's universally supported. The same cannot be said of FireWire.
I'm sorry that you don't like it, but reality is reality. Again: buy a MacBook Pro, buy a white MacBook, or continue to use your current computer.
I don't like it and neither does a lot of people. But you're right ..reality is reality...though I think that the legions of disgruntled will continue to voice their opinion.
EVERY Macbook until Oct 14 has had FW. There's really no excuse for Apple not offering FW given their history and the partnerships they've done with Apogee and other vendors.
I'm not convinced that the new models are as over-priced as people are making them out to be.
In New Zealand, the new high-end aluminium Macbook costs NZ$2899, compared to the old high-end black Macbook, which cost NZ$2399.
So that's five hundred more, and what do you get for it?
A bigger FSB on the core (800Mhz -> 1066Mhz)
Higher speed RAM (DDR2 667Mhz -> DDR3 1066Mhz)
Backlit keyboard.
Apparently far superior graphics chip.
An enlarged glass trackpad with superior multi-touch gestures.
And of course the new manufacturing process, making for a lighter, thinner, stronger, prettier laptop.
Oh and don't forget that thumbscoop!
What do you lose? Firewire and a matte-screen option (I think).
Sure, it's not exactly 'aggressive' pricing. And I don't know whether the upgrades are quantifiably 'worth' an extra NZ$500. But it isn't a rip-off.
On a side-note, one awesome thing is that Apple have given NZers a really good deal! The price is much lower than what you get if you convert the American price to NZ dollars and add our taxes! Awesome!
The fact remains that most consumer PC laptops do not have firewire.
Yes but %60 of them add Firewire. I don't mind if Apple takes the feature away and I just have to pay for it but they've taken a feature away that cannot be added. Fact.
Apple thwarts internal expansion so we must be more strict about missing features.
Yes but %60 of them add Firewire. I don't mind if Apple takes the feature away and I just have to pay for it but they've taken a feature away that cannot be added. Fact.
Apple thwarts internal expansion so we must be more strict about missing features.
Well, there are USB converters out there. For most PC laptops under $1K, you have to get an express card for FW, so I suppose you could get a USB converter. I don't disagree with many of the complaints here. If FW were truly as useless as Apple claims, then very few people would complain, but there are tons of unhappy prospective buyers. I can understand their frustration.
they need an upgrade to the old 12" powerbook, give us firewire 800 and an express card slot, but with the 12" footprint
the macbook pro's are nice, but they are too big for some things, even photographers at work are holding onto their trusty 12" powerbooks that go everywhere with them, they are already bringing along a ton of gear and require a full featured, fast, reliable apple computer
at least this will drive down the price on the previous generation, refurbs will be nice, the $999 white one isn't bad either, too bad it's white though
they need an upgrade to the old 12" powerbook, give us firewire 800 and an express card slot, but with the 12" footprint
the macbook pro's are nice, but they are too big for some things, even photographers at work are holding onto their trusty 12" powerbooks that go everywhere with them, they are already bringing along a ton of gear and require a full featured, fast, reliable apple computer
at least this will drive down the price on the previous generation, refurbs will be nice, the $999 white one isn't bad either, too bad it's white though
Trouble is, the MacBook is a consumer level product.
I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."
Well, there are USB converters out there. For most PC laptops under $1K, you have to get an express card for FW, so I suppose you could get a USB converter.
An expresscard is literally portable PCI Express card. It's like adding a FW card to a Mac Pro. A USB converter (if one existed) is... a converter and won't even work for most of the uses that most people are mentioning here.
I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."
Hear hear $1600 is NOT consumer pricing.
$800 is a "nice" laptop to most consumers. I think that the $1599 Macbook should have been a Pro model but then let's look at this logically. Could they have shoe horned in an expresscard slot and discrete graphics?
I think form has hampered function here preventing a small MBP.
How many of the people defending lack of Firewire in the MacBook actually believe what they are saying? If Apple had continued to offer Firewire in the MacBook, these same people would be praising Apple because:
"Firewire is so superior to USB"
"MacBook offers high end features not found on bargain basement laptops"
"Target Disk Mode make Macs so much superior to PCs"
But now that Apple dropped Firewire, these same people will just say "Who needs it anyway?"
No matter what Apple does, the Apple defenders will be right there to rationalize and defend them. If Apple completely changes direction, the Apple defenders will also change their story and contradict themselves right along with Apple. Instead of flip-flopping back and forth, why don't you stand by your beliefs?
There will be no video iPods. Nobody wants to watch video on iPods.
Apple will not make a cell phone.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Who needs automatic memory allocation? Just click Get Info and change the memory yourself.
Who needs preemptive multitasking or memory protection since Macs never crash?
I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."
"Consumer notebook" is not synonymous with "budget pricing."
Ok, what about the white macbook? Price/value wise where is it among other notebooks?
First time to touch this thing at apple store, and I guess its love at first sight!! It is a heck of a sturdy notebook, my only worry is that the screen is a one piece thing, besides being glass, so you break it you.........
Why is everybody comparing the higher end of the MB with other pcs I mean why are not you comparing the aluminium MB entry price to other MB?!
Ok, what about the white macbook? Price/value wise where is it among other notebooks?
First time to touch this thing at apple store, and I guess its love at first sight!! It is a heck of a sturdy notebook, my only worry is that the screen is a one piece thing, besides being glass, so you break it you.........
Why is everybody comparing the higher end of the MB with other pcs I mean why are not you comparing the aluminium MB entry price to other MB?!
The white Macbook isn't a horrible value but it's not that good either. I think that it's reasonable to expect graphics performance that's on par with the avg notebook in 2009 and with the X3100 graphics in the WMB you're behind the pack.
Yes ..do not break the new Alu Macbook glass or you're in for a world of hurt. While the unibody chassis is probably stronger and less impervious to damage the screen is going to cause a lot of warranty battles between customers and Apple.
Well since firewire doesn't matter to me because I have an iMac at home, I went to the Apple Store tonight to touch and caress the new MacBooks and see them in person. Honestly, they're spectacular. Sturdy. Gorgeous. Sleek in design and use. The trackpad is a real innovation. After using that for a few minutes I tested out the old white machine and I was actually annoyed I had to press a separate button on the trackpad.
So it's on order. And I can't wait. I can definitely understand the angst of those of you with a bunch of FW peripherals, and sorry I couldn't stay with you in no-purchase solidarity, but I need it... and I think it's the perfect machine for me.
The MacBook Air is such a niche product that it may very well die in a years time.
Its a funny thing, I've been an avid supporter of Apple products over the years and have bought many pieces of Apple kit as well as recommending Macs to friends and family alike.
Now here's the thing. Just recently I have been asked for an honest opinion and purchasing advice as regards a home computer for a school child. While I really wanted to be able to recommend an Apple purchase I really could not due to three main factors.
1: The market domination of Windows PC's in schools.
2: The increasingly frustrating trend of Macs becoming more form over function (you get a better deal on a PC tech wise) , which brings me to...
3: Price. That is the real deal breaker. Never mind running Windows on a Mac via BootCamp et al. Money talks.
So the purchase of a new HP Pavillion with dual core etc. etc. was made and you know what... the thing is, it's a beautiful piece of kit and half the price of a Mac! Damn I hate myself.
The current debacle over the 'new' MacBook less FireWire has done nothing to shore up any faith that I may have had left in Apple. It looks like they are heading down the wrong path with Steve blindly leading the way, It's a one way street. HIS way. Pissing off your loyal user base is certainly not the way to go, neither is overpriced, under specced machines. "But its sooo pretty!" Who cares! Maybe it's time for Steve to go.
But the best selling Mac ever, with firewire and superdrive, has comes down from $1299 to $999. It comes with an OS that has a level of stability and security that you cannot buy on a PC at any price, plus apps that are easier and more integrated to use than anything on a PC - and it's $300 cheaper than ever before.
The fact remains that most consumer PC laptops do not have firewire.
Yes they do, but most have 4-pin FW 400.
Most PC laptops are the 15.4" variety, so it's trivial to include ExpressCard, S-Video/VGA out, more USB ports (3-4), Ethernet/modem, some have HDMI out as well.
They don't come with it automatically. Generally you have to add it. 4 pin FW isn't all that useful.
Quote:
Most PC laptops are the 15.4" variety, so it's trivial to include ExpressCard, S-Video/VGA out, more USB ports (3-4), Ethernet/modem, some have HDMI out as well.
With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.
Comments
Trouble is, the MacBook is a consumer level product. Or to borrow your derisive terminology, it's a notebook for the "masses." USB has been the dominant connection standard in the market for years because it's everything most people need, and because it's universally supported. The same cannot be said of FireWire.
I'm sorry that you don't like it, but reality is reality. Again: buy a MacBook Pro, buy a white MacBook, or continue to use your current computer.
I don't like it and neither does a lot of people. But you're right ..reality is reality...though I think that the legions of disgruntled will continue to voice their opinion.
EVERY Macbook until Oct 14 has had FW. There's really no excuse for Apple not offering FW given their history and the partnerships they've done with Apogee and other vendors.
In New Zealand, the new high-end aluminium Macbook costs NZ$2899, compared to the old high-end black Macbook, which cost NZ$2399.
So that's five hundred more, and what do you get for it?
A bigger FSB on the core (800Mhz -> 1066Mhz)
Higher speed RAM (DDR2 667Mhz -> DDR3 1066Mhz)
Backlit keyboard.
Apparently far superior graphics chip.
An enlarged glass trackpad with superior multi-touch gestures.
And of course the new manufacturing process, making for a lighter, thinner, stronger, prettier laptop.
Oh and don't forget that thumbscoop!
What do you lose? Firewire and a matte-screen option (I think).
Sure, it's not exactly 'aggressive' pricing. And I don't know whether the upgrades are quantifiably 'worth' an extra NZ$500. But it isn't a rip-off.
On a side-note, one awesome thing is that Apple have given NZers a really good deal! The price is much lower than what you get if you convert the American price to NZ dollars and add our taxes! Awesome!
The fact remains that most consumer PC laptops do not have firewire.
Yes but %60 of them add Firewire. I don't mind if Apple takes the feature away and I just have to pay for it but they've taken a feature away that cannot be added. Fact.
Apple thwarts internal expansion so we must be more strict about missing features.
Yes but %60 of them add Firewire. I don't mind if Apple takes the feature away and I just have to pay for it but they've taken a feature away that cannot be added. Fact.
Apple thwarts internal expansion so we must be more strict about missing features.
Well, there are USB converters out there. For most PC laptops under $1K, you have to get an express card for FW, so I suppose you could get a USB converter. I don't disagree with many of the complaints here. If FW were truly as useless as Apple claims, then very few people would complain, but there are tons of unhappy prospective buyers. I can understand their frustration.
the macbook pro's are nice, but they are too big for some things, even photographers at work are holding onto their trusty 12" powerbooks that go everywhere with them, they are already bringing along a ton of gear and require a full featured, fast, reliable apple computer
at least this will drive down the price on the previous generation, refurbs will be nice, the $999 white one isn't bad either, too bad it's white though
c'est la vie, apple gives and apple takes...
the macbook pro's are nice, but they are too big for some things, even photographers at work are holding onto their trusty 12" powerbooks that go everywhere with them, they are already bringing along a ton of gear and require a full featured, fast, reliable apple computer
at least this will drive down the price on the previous generation, refurbs will be nice, the $999 white one isn't bad either, too bad it's white though
c'est la vie, apple gives and apple takes...
Trouble is, the MacBook is a consumer level product.
I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."
Well, there are USB converters out there. For most PC laptops under $1K, you have to get an express card for FW, so I suppose you could get a USB converter.
An expresscard is literally portable PCI Express card. It's like adding a FW card to a Mac Pro. A USB converter (if one existed) is... a converter and won't even work for most of the uses that most people are mentioning here.
I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."
Hear hear $1600 is NOT consumer pricing.
$800 is a "nice" laptop to most consumers. I think that the $1599 Macbook should have been a Pro model but then let's look at this logically. Could they have shoe horned in an expresscard slot and discrete graphics?
I think form has hampered function here preventing a small MBP.
Oh, and check out my sig.
...
How many of the people defending lack of Firewire in the MacBook actually believe what they are saying? If Apple had continued to offer Firewire in the MacBook, these same people would be praising Apple because:
"Firewire is so superior to USB"
"MacBook offers high end features not found on bargain basement laptops"
"Target Disk Mode make Macs so much superior to PCs"
But now that Apple dropped Firewire, these same people will just say "Who needs it anyway?"
No matter what Apple does, the Apple defenders will be right there to rationalize and defend them. If Apple completely changes direction, the Apple defenders will also change their story and contradict themselves right along with Apple. Instead of flip-flopping back and forth, why don't you stand by your beliefs?
There will be no video iPods. Nobody wants to watch video on iPods.
Apple will not make a cell phone.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Who needs automatic memory allocation? Just click Get Info and change the memory yourself.
Who needs preemptive multitasking or memory protection since Macs never crash?
I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."
"Consumer notebook" is not synonymous with "budget pricing."
I think the reality is that I'm a computer enthusiast and
even though I may not utilize the technology in the same
way as others here I realize that a premium brand like Apple
should be delivering technology that is superior. Jobs loves
to state that Apple makes the best computers available but
what exactly does that mean?
Fierwire is superior technology that was available to anyone
who chose a Mac. Now for the sake of design..we've lost
FW and that doesn't sit well with me or others that are actually
seeing the benefits of this superior technology.
First time to touch this thing at apple store, and I guess its love at first sight!! It is a heck of a sturdy notebook, my only worry is that the screen is a one piece thing, besides being glass, so you break it you.........
Why is everybody comparing the higher end of the MB with other pcs I mean why are not you comparing the aluminium MB entry price to other MB?!
Ok, what about the white macbook? Price/value wise where is it among other notebooks?
First time to touch this thing at apple store, and I guess its love at first sight!! It is a heck of a sturdy notebook, my only worry is that the screen is a one piece thing, besides being glass, so you break it you.........
Why is everybody comparing the higher end of the MB with other pcs I mean why are not you comparing the aluminium MB entry price to other MB?!
The white Macbook isn't a horrible value but it's not that good either. I think that it's reasonable to expect graphics performance that's on par with the avg notebook in 2009 and with the X3100 graphics in the WMB you're behind the pack.
Yes ..do not break the new Alu Macbook glass or you're in for a world of hurt. While the unibody chassis is probably stronger and less impervious to damage the screen is going to cause a lot of warranty battles between customers and Apple.
So it's on order. And I can't wait. I can definitely understand the angst of those of you with a bunch of FW peripherals, and sorry I couldn't stay with you in no-purchase solidarity, but I need it... and I think it's the perfect machine for me.
The MacBook Air is such a niche product that it may very well die in a years time.
Its a funny thing, I've been an avid supporter of Apple products over the years and have bought many pieces of Apple kit as well as recommending Macs to friends and family alike.
Now here's the thing. Just recently I have been asked for an honest opinion and purchasing advice as regards a home computer for a school child. While I really wanted to be able to recommend an Apple purchase I really could not due to three main factors.
1: The market domination of Windows PC's in schools.
2: The increasingly frustrating trend of Macs becoming more form over function (you get a better deal on a PC tech wise) , which brings me to...
3: Price. That is the real deal breaker. Never mind running Windows on a Mac via BootCamp et al. Money talks.
So the purchase of a new HP Pavillion with dual core etc. etc. was made and you know what... the thing is, it's a beautiful piece of kit and half the price of a Mac! Damn I hate myself.
The current debacle over the 'new' MacBook less FireWire has done nothing to shore up any faith that I may have had left in Apple. It looks like they are heading down the wrong path with Steve blindly leading the way, It's a one way street. HIS way. Pissing off your loyal user base is certainly not the way to go, neither is overpriced, under specced machines. "But its sooo pretty!" Who cares! Maybe it's time for Steve to go.
But the best selling Mac ever, with firewire and superdrive, has comes down from $1299 to $999. It comes with an OS that has a level of stability and security that you cannot buy on a PC at any price, plus apps that are easier and more integrated to use than anything on a PC - and it's $300 cheaper than ever before.
Isn't anybody happy about that?
The fact remains that most consumer PC laptops do not have firewire.
Yes they do, but most have 4-pin FW 400.
Most PC laptops are the 15.4" variety, so it's trivial to include ExpressCard, S-Video/VGA out, more USB ports (3-4), Ethernet/modem, some have HDMI out as well.
Yes they do, but most have 4-pin FW 400.
They don't come with it automatically. Generally you have to add it. 4 pin FW isn't all that useful.
Most PC laptops are the 15.4" variety, so it's trivial to include ExpressCard, S-Video/VGA out, more USB ports (3-4), Ethernet/modem, some have HDMI out as well.
With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.