They don't come with it automatically. Generally you have to add it. 4 pin FW isn't all that useful.
With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.
While my laptop may be thicker, it doesn't creak, and the weight/size is a decent trade-off to have an affordable 15 inch laptop with plenty of ports, but it's fine to have lots of style, just don't bitch when Apple takes away your options or changes $2000 to get those ports back.
With my $700 laptop, I still have 4 USB ports, VGA/S-video out, ethernet/modem (which I haven't used 56k in 10 years, 4-pin FW (which is still FW, but it lacks the power pins), and an ExpressCard slot. And a 8x DVD burner, which up until recently, Apple still charged a premium for on the MB. It's like a $25 part, you can even buy them online and install them in older PC laptops if you wanted to.
While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.
Well since firewire doesn't matter to me because I have an iMac at home, I went to the Apple Store tonight to touch and caress the new MacBooks and see them in person. Honestly, they're spectacular. Sturdy. Gorgeous. Sleek in design and use. The trackpad is a real innovation. After using that for a few minutes I tested out the old white machine and I was actually annoyed I had to press a separate button on the trackpad.
So it's on order. And I can't wait. I can definitely understand the angst of those of you with a bunch of FW peripherals, and sorry I couldn't stay with you in no-purchase solidarity, but I need it... and I think it's the perfect machine for me.
edmaster...no problem brother. You have an iMac and so you still have access to what you need should a FW product be the best choice. For me...I have a Mac mini but I don't want to try to do audio/video. In the future my needs may change and I could afford to have a laptop with USB only but right now I cannot afford it functionality wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.
I think this sums it up nicely. I like OS X a lot but it's not that much superior to Vista to forgo on much better hardware on the PC side. I think at times Apple calls our bluff and frankly for many of us they will not win this game of chicken. Sure they'll make millions of sales but I've been on the sales side of the process and consumers are often unaware of the long term limitations of their purchases but in a few years when the aluminum case is rather passe and USB 3.0 is all the rage today's Macbook owners may feel a bit closed in and envious. We'll see.
While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.
Really? Lenovo has a notebook with 80GB HD, 1GB RAM, 800MHz FSB, no bluetooth, slower Intel graphics for $1,200.
With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.
O RLY?
Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.
The white Macbook isn't a horrible value but it's not that good either. I think that it's reasonable to expect graphics performance that's on par with the avg notebook in 2009 and with the X3100 graphics in the WMB you're behind the pack.
Yah, the graphics performance is quite pathetic with the white PlastiBook. That said, the new price and the fact that it still has FW make it more attractive to me than Steve's new MetalBooks.
And yes, I have played with the MetalBooks at my local Apple Store. Like the casing, new glass & LED-backlit screen, and the four-finger trackpad gestures, but Steve's yanking of FW ultimately forces me to give him a one-finger gesture.
Well, I think from a marketing poit of view (and I am not a pro in that )Apple did a nice thing, I mean they clearly seperated their customers to "consumer-level" and "pro", so if you need the FW go pro
I think the MB is much more beautiful than the MBP, as it has less empty space all around the keyboard, besides the weight of course.
Maybe January 09 will bring along something new to replace the white MB . Also, I think apple are clever enough to provide all the functionality FW used to present or even more using either the new display port (and the necessary cables and adaptors), moreover, I think the 15" and 17" MBP will get another performance kick with the intro of snow leaopard in Jan 09. So as usual, patience is a virtue with apple.
Well, I think from a marketing poit of view (and I am not a pro in that )Apple did a nice thing, I mean they clearly seperated their customers to "consumer-level" and "pro", so if you need the FW go pro.
Yeah, it's a shakedown, I think most of us get that. Cripple up the MacBook good and proper, so that more ppl have to shell out $2000+ for the MB Pro. Well, that is, if they don't get pissed and go back to Windows.
Just 'cuz we understand the reasoning, doesn't mean it's not a shakedown.
Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.
I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.
...
I'm having trouble making the corrolation between notebook sales and the number of ports. Could that be because their is no correlation.
Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.
They do. It's the new 15" Macbook Pro. 15" screen, card slot and FW800.
The 13" MBP doesn't have a card slot or FW800 and has an integrated but decent GPU. On the other hand, it's also $400 cheaper. Oh sorry, added a Pro on there by mistake. Funny...looks just like it's Pro big brother. Hey lookie...it even drives a 30" ACD.
I bet a good number of graphic pros are thinking that's a pretty sweet update even with a $99 cable requirement.
Because you didn't say anything else. What are you going to do if the new MB is wildly successful?
There's little difference between the MBP and MB anymore. Only if you need a port the MB doesn't have or need better graphics do you need to get a MBP now. Okay, it wont play Crysis but it does manage a lot of other games pretty well.
They do. It's the new 15" Macbook Pro. 15" screen, card slot and FW800.
The 13" MBP doesn't have a card slot or FW800 and has an integrated but decent GPU. On the other hand, it's also $400 cheaper. Oh sorry, added a Pro on there by mistake. Funny...looks just like it's Pro big brother. Hey lookie...it even drives a 30" ACD.
I bet a good number of graphic pros are thinking that's a pretty sweet update even with a $99 cable requirement.
I think you are absolutely right. I will wait till Jan before grabbing my UMB (unibody ) I hope by then I can get it with Snow Leo and the necessary cables, besides I think its usually the safest thing with apple, ain't it?
Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.
I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.
...
It's important to keep your wishes grounded in reality though.
Jobs hates expansion options because he wants the customer to upgrade every 2-3 years.
That's why he limits PCI slots on the Mac Pro, and why a MacBook will never get a card slot.
I get that. I understand where he's coming from. This is why the lack of FW800 on the MacBook is such a big deal.
If you're going to lock up the expansion option, you can't take out an interface that reduces the supposedly upmarket Apple notebook to the same level as a useless PC wannabe.
I mean, if you can't use Firewire for Time Machine or Target Disk, can't use mid to pro level audio and video stuff, and have to use the default USB connection on peripherals like the Drobo, why spend the extra for a Mac?
Comments
They don't come with it automatically. Generally you have to add it. 4 pin FW isn't all that useful.
With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.
While my laptop may be thicker, it doesn't creak, and the weight/size is a decent trade-off to have an affordable 15 inch laptop with plenty of ports, but it's fine to have lots of style, just don't bitch when Apple takes away your options or changes $2000 to get those ports back.
With my $700 laptop, I still have 4 USB ports, VGA/S-video out, ethernet/modem (which I haven't used 56k in 10 years, 4-pin FW (which is still FW, but it lacks the power pins), and an ExpressCard slot. And a 8x DVD burner, which up until recently, Apple still charged a premium for on the MB. It's like a $25 part, you can even buy them online and install them in older PC laptops if you wanted to.
While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.
Well since firewire doesn't matter to me because I have an iMac at home, I went to the Apple Store tonight to touch and caress the new MacBooks and see them in person. Honestly, they're spectacular. Sturdy. Gorgeous. Sleek in design and use. The trackpad is a real innovation. After using that for a few minutes I tested out the old white machine and I was actually annoyed I had to press a separate button on the trackpad.
So it's on order. And I can't wait. I can definitely understand the angst of those of you with a bunch of FW peripherals, and sorry I couldn't stay with you in no-purchase solidarity, but I need it... and I think it's the perfect machine for me.
edmaster...no problem brother. You have an iMac and so you still have access to what you need should a FW product be the best choice. For me...I have a Mac mini but I don't want to try to do audio/video. In the future my needs may change and I could afford to have a laptop with USB only but right now I cannot afford it functionality wise.
While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.
I think this sums it up nicely. I like OS X a lot but it's not that much superior to Vista to forgo on much better hardware on the PC side. I think at times Apple calls our bluff and frankly for many of us they will not win this game of chicken. Sure they'll make millions of sales but I've been on the sales side of the process and consumers are often unaware of the long term limitations of their purchases but in a few years when the aluminum case is rather passe and USB 3.0 is all the rage today's Macbook owners may feel a bit closed in and envious. We'll see.
While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.
Really? Lenovo has a notebook with 80GB HD, 1GB RAM, 800MHz FSB, no bluetooth, slower Intel graphics for $1,200.
"Consumer notebook" is not synonymous with "budget pricing."
Fair enough, but it doesn't have the specs of a consumer notebook either. It's a prosumer/executive notebook at best.
With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.
O RLY?
Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.
I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.
...
The white Macbook isn't a horrible value but it's not that good either. I think that it's reasonable to expect graphics performance that's on par with the avg notebook in 2009 and with the X3100 graphics in the WMB you're behind the pack.
Yah, the graphics performance is quite pathetic with the white PlastiBook. That said, the new price and the fact that it still has FW make it more attractive to me than Steve's new MetalBooks.
And yes, I have played with the MetalBooks at my local Apple Store. Like the casing, new glass & LED-backlit screen, and the four-finger trackpad gestures, but Steve's yanking of FW ultimately forces me to give him a one-finger gesture.
...
I think the MB is much more beautiful than the MBP, as it has less empty space all around the keyboard, besides the weight of course.
Maybe January 09 will bring along something new to replace the white MB
Another year, another batch of bitchy whiny babies.
Simplistic. And even if it was true, you'd be guilty of bitching and whining about "bitchy whiny babies".
See my sig.
...
Well, I think from a marketing poit of view (and I am not a pro in that
Yeah, it's a shakedown, I think most of us get that. Cripple up the MacBook good and proper, so that more ppl have to shell out $2000+ for the MB Pro. Well, that is, if they don't get pissed and go back to Windows.
Just 'cuz we understand the reasoning, doesn't mean it's not a shakedown.
See my sig.
...
O RLY?
Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.
I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.
...
I'm having trouble making the corrolation between notebook sales and the number of ports. Could that be because their is no correlation.
I'm having trouble making the corrolation between notebook sales and the number of ports. Could that be because their is no correlation.
Way to selectively ignore most of the post.
Read my sig.
...
Way to selectively ignore most of the post.
Read my sig.
...
What else did you say?
What else did you say?
The illiterate says, "What?"
...
O RLY?
Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.
They do. It's the new 15" Macbook Pro. 15" screen, card slot and FW800.
The 13" MBP doesn't have a card slot or FW800 and has an integrated but decent GPU. On the other hand, it's also $400 cheaper. Oh sorry, added a Pro on there by mistake. Funny...looks just like it's Pro big brother. Hey lookie...it even drives a 30" ACD.
I bet a good number of graphic pros are thinking that's a pretty sweet update even with a $99 cable requirement.
The illiterate says, "What?"
...
Because you didn't say anything else. What are you going to do if the new MB is wildly successful?
There's little difference between the MBP and MB anymore. Only if you need a port the MB doesn't have or need better graphics do you need to get a MBP now. Okay, it wont play Crysis but it does manage a lot of other games pretty well.
http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/app...08-models.html
They do. It's the new 15" Macbook Pro. 15" screen, card slot and FW800.
The 13" MBP doesn't have a card slot or FW800 and has an integrated but decent GPU. On the other hand, it's also $400 cheaper. Oh sorry, added a Pro on there by mistake. Funny...looks just like it's Pro big brother. Hey lookie...it even drives a 30" ACD.
I bet a good number of graphic pros are thinking that's a pretty sweet update even with a $99 cable requirement.
I think you are absolutely right. I will wait till Jan before grabbing my UMB (unibody
Oh sorry, added a Pro on there by mistake.
And that kinda detonates the whole point of your post.
...
Because you didn't say anything else.
I did, actually. Wow... the functional illiteracy is spreading.
Maybe it's pointless trying to discuss things on AI. Ppl see what they wanna see, read what they wanna read. Ah well.
...
Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.
I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.
...
It's important to keep your wishes grounded in reality though.
Jobs hates expansion options because he wants the customer to upgrade every 2-3 years.
That's why he limits PCI slots on the Mac Pro, and why a MacBook will never get a card slot.
I get that. I understand where he's coming from. This is why the lack of FW800 on the MacBook is such a big deal.
If you're going to lock up the expansion option, you can't take out an interface that reduces the supposedly upmarket Apple notebook to the same level as a useless PC wannabe.
I mean, if you can't use Firewire for Time Machine or Target Disk, can't use mid to pro level audio and video stuff, and have to use the default USB connection on peripherals like the Drobo, why spend the extra for a Mac?