Apple releases new 15" MacBook Pro

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  • Reply 181 of 383
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    It's funny cause having had a loan of an older MacBook Pro with the last keyboard for a couple of days, put me off buying one. And trying out the Air helped me figure out why. The new black keyboard is around (and this is no scientific measurement) 64 times better. I absolutely hate the silver MacBook Pro keyboard, with a passion!!!



    But you are the exception to the rule. There is an element of subjectivity, but the human factors concerning the tactile sensation of the keys, and the ability of the fingers to sense the individual key and find the "home" keys, is something that has been extensively studied over the years, to the point that it is far more objective and far less objective than you believe. The force vs. travel curve of the keyboard on the present MacBook Pro is vastly superior to that of the keyboard on the MacBook Air. Go find someone who has to type for a living and sit them down in front of both keyboards, and they'll explain it to you.
  • Reply 182 of 383
    Right.



    By adding a resumee: At home using a desktop display NOBODY needs a glossy display. What do you think why I have to pay 2000 bucks for a true color Eizo display?
  • Reply 183 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,584member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Yeah, it's dropping like a...



    brick <- I think I figured out what it was after all.



    Down $6 in the space of a few hours. Not looking good. Below 100 tomorrow I reckon.



    The problems I see here are that Apple has not made a safe move. Making the whole lineup matte, nobody would care one bit. Nobody would argue that there shouldn't be a matte-only display.



    No firewire in the Macbook - what are they thinking? Nearly every imovie user will have a firewire camcorder. They not only have to buy a new laptop but a new camcorder. They have no choice but to go for the old white one.



    Higher pricing. As stupid as some people are, Jobs standing on stage talking about better value does nothing. In store, people check the price tags and they've gone up or they are the same. Therefore no sale.



    The hardware spec has improved but this is another point where Apple are missing some marbles. The glossy displays, no firewire etc are all consumer things. Exact spec has no bearing here. Most won't even know what an Nvidia chip is so spec improvements won't increase sales.



    I agree that it's surprising they dropped FW in the MB. For the Air, I could understand. But I was afraid they would extend this to the Mb as well. I don't like FW much these days, but admittedly, it's still something many people would want for video and external drives until power over E-SATA comes out, hopefully, next year.



    I am disappointed about the pricing of the MB's. The MBP pricing is fine. I don't know of any real pro who would object. But, for consumer machines right now, that $900 machine was looking very good!
  • Reply 184 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,584member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    I aware of all of the above and I am aware the videos show that. That wasn't my question.



    I realized that just now as I reread some posts. But, the "no" was in answer to that question, though it was obviously not clear.



    I don't see how Apple could develop a new method. This isn't their business at all. There are very large companies around that have developed state of the art machining technologies. There are a few of those technologies. For Apple to develop a new one without that getting out would be slim to none. They would have to have developed it in secret, but would then have had to apply for patents. That's not secret.



    Where would they put it? If they built their own plant, that wouldn't be secret either. Someone would know that Apple is building a plant. someone would know that someone is designing and building machines for Apple, and so on.
  • Reply 185 of 383
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    And, you can adjust the screen down just a few degrees, which will eliminate most of, or all of the reflection without being a problem in viewing.



    And make sure you wear a long-sleeve black t-shirt, gloves and a ski mask.
  • Reply 186 of 383
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OptionTrader View Post


    I'm curious what spectrophotometer and software you use to calibrate the glossy monitors.



    Mine where taken from here. http://americanprinter.com/mag/lcd_vs_crt_0305_1/
  • Reply 187 of 383
    Guess now Anti-Reflective Screen stickers will make their way .



    Oh well, there is definitely some pro and cons in the new design. I honestly will want to see how strong does the new MB and MBP feel with this so called brick manufacturing process. The twin GPU is fantastic, no more secondary hard disk for Photoshop.

    My only gripe is because of the design which is made of glass, then there is likely no way Apple could make it matte anymore, its a sad thing though but also an achievement because no laptop screen is made out of glass. Lets hope the glass wont crack if it falls (lets hope this is the same glass featured in the iPhone). I wonder if Apple would go to the stretch of making an anti-reflective glass.

    Now about the ports, OMG! why must the port be so closed together. I can imagine some 3rd party hardwares will start having problems being plugged in because the ports is so closed up together, they need to increase the gap between each port.



    As much as I want a new MBP, guess I will wait for 2nd revision after Nehalem and after SL is released
  • Reply 188 of 383
    wilcowilco Posts: 985member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Cut it out wilco, you been ok for a while, don't go back to your old self.



    I never changed. I've just been too busy to call you out on your bs recently.
  • Reply 189 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,584member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OptionTrader View Post


    I'm curious what spectrophotometer and software you use to calibrate the glossy monitors.



    I use the Xrite i1XTreme. That's a new name for the bundle, but it's the same one I have.



    The price has come down.



    http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=792
  • Reply 190 of 383
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,401moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    And, you can adjust the screen down just a few degrees, which will eliminate most of, or all of the reflection without being a problem in viewing.



    You can adjust for that case because there are a few distinct lights and focus on dark background areas but try and do that in a library with massive windows where everywhere is very well lit.



    The point as always is that the glossy requires work to be done to avoid distraction, the matte can be in any position and it's fine. The glossy is not an improvement and it most certainly is not the best choice if Apple wanted to go with one model.



    If Apple had gone completely matte, everyone would buy the machines - glossy fans weren't switching away back when it was all matte. All glossy and Apple will lose customers.



    It doesn't matter how much getting used to it I try. I've used glossy screens for weeks at a time and I will never use one regularly again as long as I live. I even dislike when other people have glossy screens next to me because I can see them staring in the reflection - it looks like they are staring at me and it's very irritating.



    It is partly subjective to block out reflections but with matte it isn't subjective because everybody can use them just fine. Look at digital signs all over the world in stadiums and major cities, they aren't glossy because you can't see those during the day at all angles. Matte screens almost look like printed banners.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by la sombra blanca


    And make sure you wear a long-sleeve black t-shirt, gloves and a ski mask.



    This is why Apple don't see a problem. Blue jeans and black shirts all round. Maybe they should sell the uniform as an add-on.



    Think Different.. look the same.. do the same.. pay more
  • Reply 191 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,584member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by la sombra blanca View Post


    And make sure you wear a long-sleeve black t-shirt, gloves and a ski mask.



    Almost amusing.
  • Reply 192 of 383
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Yeah, it's dropping like a...



    ...

    Higher pricing. As stupid as some people are, Jobs standing on stage talking about better value does nothing. In store, people check the price tags and they've gone up or they are the same. Therefore no sale.




    Exactly. The one thing that Apple absolutely needed to do was to start selling notebook computers at a price substantially lower than they had been previously. The execs at Apple have evidently not noticed that the retail price of notebook computers has dropped enormously over the past several years, and that Apple's notebook computers have remaind at essentially the same price. If Apple is going to continue to gain market share, they have simply got to start selling notebook computers at a lower price. That means that they have simply got to find ways to reduce, not increase, the production cost for their computers. From a business standpoint, what they did is tantamount to inflicting wounds on oneself.



    Jobs simply needs to be fired. There is no way, no how that someone who has presided over a business fiasco as major as this should be allowed to remain in their position. No way, no how did it make one whit of sense to move to a more costly manufacturing process. It is simply insane.
  • Reply 193 of 383
    Hmm....I checked apple.com this morning and saw new MacBooks...could not decide between the MB and the MBP but finally went with the MBP. It seems a lot of you are not liking these? (MB and MBP) Did I just make a mistake? Should I have waited? Just went with a MB instead of a Pro? I guess its probably not too late to cancel my order...



    Obviously I dont know THAT much about computers...I can use them well and use photoshop and the sort, and plan to start taking computer graphics classes....
  • Reply 194 of 383
    Haha, the display look like some other poster who posted the next MBP mockup ,



    Well I honestly hoped Apple will keep matte and maybe place a anti-reflective glass on their displays.
  • Reply 195 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,584member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    Mine where taken from here. http://americanprinter.com/mag/lcd_vs_crt_0305_1/



    It's too bad the Barco isn't being made any more.
  • Reply 196 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,584member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wilco View Post


    I never changed. I've just been too busy to call you out on your bs recently.



    Well, go back to what you've been doing. No one missed your nonsense.
  • Reply 197 of 383
    thttht Posts: 5,536member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IamtheGTIguy View Post


    Sometimes I forget how ignorant most of you apple geeks are about hardware. This update was AMAZING technology-wise, and most of you missed it because of your anal-retentive gawkings over the glossy screen.



    Heh. Ain't that the truth. But it ain't going to change either. It's very similar to the craziness when Snow Leopard's "features" were announced. Potentially gigantic changes to the OS X are announced and people are babbling about it being a bug fix release.



    However, Apple is extremely targeted in their hardware, so all this complaining comes with the territory as they don't try to target everyone's needs.



    Quote:

    1) The processor speed is pegged at 2.53Ghz. Why is this significant? Because the only mathematical way this works out is if the quad-pumped front side bus runs at 1066 Mhz. (i.e. 1066/4 = 266. 266 * 9.5 = 2533 = 2.53Ghz). THIS IS THE FIRST MASS PRODUCED NOTEBOOK WITH A 1066 FSB!



    Actually, DDR3 is an octo-pumped bus, while DDR2 is a quad-pumped bus. It's operating at half the bus clock as DDR2-1066 SDRAM is. DDR2 should give more performance (~5%) at equivalent transfer rates due to lower latency, while DDR3 has less power consumption.



    Since the older MBP has 800 MHz DDR2 SDRAM while the new MBP has 1066 MHz DDR3 SDRAM, there's probably slight increase in performance at equal CPU clock. So, the new 2.53 GHz MPB should be about 5%, maybe 10%, faster than the old 2.50 GHz MBP due to the higher bandwidth memory and slightly better CPU clock.



    Quote:

    2) THIS IS THE FIRST MASS PRODUCED NOTEBOOK WITH DDR3 MEMORY! And not just any DDR3, but DDR3 1066 (more evidence of the 1066 FSB)



    Doubtful as there are a lot of laptops out there that use desktop components. It's probably first to actually use laptop components. I'll try to check.



    Quote:

    3) This is the first mass produced notebook, and Nvidia's first release of, a combined discrete GPU (the 9400m) and integrated chipset. This provides the power of a mid-level graphics card with the energy efficiency of integrated graphics.



    Yes. This is a big plus. Most comparative laptops will be using Intel integrated graphics. It's interesting that Apple is beginning to use the "16/32 graphics cores" marketing speak. It'll be interesting to see much it is ratcheted up when Snow Leopard comes.



    Quote:

    In short, what we saw today was a hardware revolution.



    Yet, most of you people can't get over glossy screens.



    Well it's an evolution at most. It could also be a short one as next Fall (2009), mobile Nehalem based systems come out. Basically, everything changes then. This is more of taking advantage of Nvidia core logic when the opportunity presented itself. It may be Nvidia's last ever chipset as who knows if they can move to a next generation.



    I think the main thing you have to realize is that Apple is getting big enough and popular enough that they'll have to start addressing niches in the market. They won't go down market ($600 to $800 laptops) for awhile or if ever, but they can still go upmarket. They are pretty much ignoring the "extreme" top end with the 45 Watt TDP CPUs. 3.06 GHz Core 2 Duos and 2.53 GHz Quads are available in the 45 Watt TDP envelope. Maybe they are too much oriented towards the mobile gamer, but many Apple customers would go for the horsepower to encode/decode video.



    Also, the restrictions between screen size and price points can get frustrating. That's being too targeted. Ie, we should be able to get a 15" screen at a $1499 price point with the appropriate components, but Apple doesn't do that as they reserve price points for one machine only, which in the case of the $1499 price point, is the 13" MB. Also would like to see more screen resolution options.



    So, these are old frustrations you are seeing, not really new ones.
  • Reply 198 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,584member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    You can adjust for that case because there are a few distinct lights and focus on dark background areas but try and do that in a library with massive windows where everywhere is very well lit.



    The point as always is that the glossy requires work to be done to avoid distraction, the matte can be in any position and it's fine. The glossy is not an improvement and it most certainly is not the best choice if Apple wanted to go with one model.



    If Apple had gone completely matte, everyone would buy the machines - glossy fans weren't switching away back when it was all matte. All glossy and Apple will lose customers.



    It doesn't matter how much getting used to it I try. I've used glossy screens for weeks at a time and I will never use one regularly again as long as I live. I even dislike when other people have glossy screens next to me because I can see them staring in the reflection - it looks like they are staring at me and it's very irritating.



    It is partly subjective to block out reflections but with matte it isn't subjective because everybody can use them just fine. Look at digital signs all over the world in stadiums and major cities, they aren't glossy because you can't see those during the day at all angles. Matte screens almost look like printed banners.



    I understand that a few people will have problems with them. I've acknowledged that. But most won't. I can't ague with what Jobs said that most people wanted glossy.



    I also don't consider stadium displays to be a good comparison. Besides, most of those really big ones are lights, not LCD screens.



    Quote:

    This is why Apple don't see a problem. Blue jeans and black shirts all round. Maybe they should sell the uniform as an add-on.



    Don't encourage him.
  • Reply 199 of 383
    PREVIOUSLY POSTED:



    Matte vs gloss.



    Well here is what Popular Mechanics say:



    "Each screen has its advantages and disadvantages, which is why manufacturers waver between the two. Glossy screens produce an image that's generally regarded as "richer." ?more color depth and vibrancy. On the downside, glossy screens are more susceptible to glare, reflecting light from windows and light bulbs. And they tend to show fingerprints and smudges more readily, especially when they are off.



    Matte screens tend to handle glare better, due to a polarized coating over the glass that diffuses ambient light. A side effect of the matte finish is a slight blurring, reduced contrast and a narrower viewing angle.



    Which is better is a matter of environment and personal preference. If the screen is in a room that's generally dark, consider a glossy finish. In a controlled environment it offers a best-case picture. But I wouldn't be too afraid of a matte finish. Most of us use our screens in mixed light where the minor qualitative difference is offset by the anti-reflective benefit."



    In either case, why not have both. Power Support and Photodon, for example offer anti-glare films that can be quickly added or removed to suit the situation. Viewing photos, videos, graphic presentations, etc., nothing beats a gloss screen. Glare an issue, no problem. An option that only works if yours is a 'gloss' screen in the first place.



    And if you are anything like our gloss- and matte-screened users in my previous agency, most of those that originally went for the mattes now wished they had the gloss, but not the other way around. Go figure.



    My current Macbook Pro is matte. For client presentations, borrowed a gloss. Next one will definitely be gloss. Will probably get an anti-glare film to use were necessary. But just like the extra battery, modem, ethernet cable and security lock I bought for every portable, I will probably never use it.



    I would also like to add, "? very few people are actually bothered by the glare (usually very small) that may occur from a glossy screen. Once the screen is turned on, most of the glare is washed out from the even brighter image."* Something that one might consider even more so now with Apples new LED type screens.



    Funny that most of us who have had or used a gloss screen are less concerned than those that have not, or more important those who have not even seen one. Just another note, before I made the decision to go with my matte Macbook Pro, I asked one of the staff which model was the most popular. Answer, "Gloss by far." I soon wished I had listened.



    Ref. http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...re#post1244891
  • Reply 200 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,584member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaiser_soze View Post


    Exactly. The one thing that Apple absolutely needed to do was to start selling notebook computers at a price substantially lower than they had been previously. The execs at Apple have evidently not noticed that the retail price of notebook computers has dropped enormously over the past several years, and that Apple's notebook computers have remaind at essentially the same price. If Apple is going to continue to gain market share, they have simply got to start selling notebook computers at a lower price. That means that they have simply got to find ways to reduce, not increase, the production cost for their computers. From a business standpoint, what they did is tantamount to inflicting wounds on oneself.



    Jobs simply needs to be fired. There is no way, no how that someone who has presided over a business fiasco as major as this should be allowed to remain in their position. No way, no how did it make one whit of sense to move to a more costly manufacturing process. It is simply insane.



    Fiasco? Some disappointing things, but not a fiasco. Many people here have had only good things to say, along with those who seem to find only bad things.
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