They've just been marked down $250 off- so only- $1650 same as MacBook. New models will be out in 2 weeks with BLu-ray. But no Leopard ? Vista? I don't think I could.
Ah, so much angst over something that some cable or a simple adapter will fix.... (and that too, only for those choosing to restrict themselves, by choice or necessity, to the MB or the MBA).
Unfortunately as aesthetics increasingly the driving force, the hardware frustration of Mac is getting closer to the software frustration of windows. Not there yet, but wait a year or two until Ive decides to base the entire laptop line off of the air.
Ah, so much angst over something that some cable or a simple adapter will fix.... (and that too, only for those choosing to restrict themselves, by choice or necessity, to the MB or the MBA).
ha obviously not a firewire user...
if only i was so "lucky" (to not be stuck with thousands of dollars of audio interface and post processing equipment and hundreds of dollars of apple software which needs FW)
...and before you reply "u can afford an MBP" think 'form factor' and 'MBP now heavier with one less firewire interface'
But they are the ones buying new macs in the greatest numbers.
Existing Mac users upgrading a two-year-old MacBook Core Duo are the minority. Jobs and "Jony" know that the REAL pricing decisions are made by switchers, who, as you've said, don't give two flits about Firewire.
*To them, $50 might make or break a system.
*To them, sidemounted blinky-lights (worthless battery indicator) is more important than a foreign connector (firewore)
*To them, the choice to switch is an uphill one. All of their software has to be re-purchased for Mac
For existing mac users, the choice is less important.
*You have a platform with which you are (ostensibly) happy. Windows is foreign.
*You have lots of software running on MacOS, perhaps software for which there is no good Windows alternative.
*MAYBE, you have a firewire drive, camera, scanner, audio box, etc.
BUT, you are already a user. The general public (and MANY professionals inc. graphics and video guys) don't upgrade their machines every year. You have a system that works. Poor college students buy a machine when they start school, and MAYBE a new one if they go to grad school. Laptops aren't purchased anew each year.
All of the above "existing" users aren't in Apple's sights. We don't bring money in like the hordes of switchers.
Simply put, Apple is following the diminishing retail $$ and catering to users who are actually BUYING their products. Only problem is, those buyers aren't mac users.
Those are good points. I agree with everything you posted. There is one caveat. A fraction of us existing [long time] mac users upgrade regularly for a number of reasons . I for one upgrade my desktop one year and my laptop/s the other year, so we;re buying one mac per year on average. I know mI may be a low percentage/factor but I still expect a certain level of connect-ability in my new purchases, FW 400/800 being one of them. Good discussion!
Something I thought about. There was scpeculation of FW via the CAT5E jack[using an adapter] before the announcmeent, that would be a great compromise of it offered the throughput(which I am sure it does) since we dont use the CAT5 jack here at home since our WiFi works well. Thats the kind of innovation I expect from Apple.... For your critics, innovation being the implementation of said tech, not necessarily creation of the tech, per se.
Ah, so much angst over something that some cable or a simple adapter will fix.... (and that too, only for those choosing to restrict themselves, by choice or necessity, to the MB or the MBA).
A simple adapter cannot bring USB up to FW speeds. People can no longer capture video from their miniDV cameras without experiencing dropped frames on the MacBooks and if they use TimeMachine, their backups will take forever. I find it ridiculous that Apple pushed their new OS with TimeMachine as a big feature and has now crippled it on the MacBooks with the removal of FW. Also, I think that Apple should have left FW400 on the MacBooks and added an eSATA port to the MacBook Pros.
They've just been marked down $250 off- so only- $1650 same as MacBook. New models will be out in 2 weeks with BLu-ray. But no Leopard ? Vista? I don't think I could.
Not anywhere near the same Intel Core 2 Duo (1.06 GHz); RAM installed: 1 GB DDR2 SDRAM. 100 GB drive. And a 11.1"?
Come on folks. It's not like we all aren't going to replace our old USB2 and FW400 storage devices with USB3, power over eSata spec or FW3200 devices in a few years anyway.
Jobs probably saved us all some money there by not putting a FW400 port in the MB.
Also not like you can't buy new external cases for your current external drives. USB ones are dirt cheap.
Mmm.. just thinking about the new MacBook's EPEAT Gold status. How environmental-friendly is it when you have to ditch your Firewire-only external harddisks and buy new usb-harddisks?
That's what i was meaning...if i'm running Logic Pro on my Powerbook G4 with 1 usb for ext HDD, 1usb for mouse(and USB key for transfers) and FW400 for Motu Traveller...i'm screwed now.
I love it. I just go next door and the guys burst out laughing?
But they did have some comments:
You weren't screwed last week, or the last 'how many' years you've had your Powerbook G4.
"if i'm running Logic Pro?" I gather you don't now.
However, if you go to Best Buy and buy a external HDD, almost all are USB. There are a few USB/FW but most are pure USB.
But when you go to the Apple store or buy from the online Apple store there is a great selection of FW HDDs. Even FW 800 drives which I've never seen at a BB.
I don't know where Mac users get their external HDDs or peripherals in general, but if they get them at an Apple store, which isn't improbably, there is a good chance its FW.
That's why I suspect, but have no proof, that FW use among Mac users is higher than for pc users.
The affordable 13-inch MacBook provides USB2 connectivity for audio I/O, and the MOTU 828mkII USB2 audio interface is the perfect professional audio I/O solution for this new generation of MacBooks. With plug-and-play connectivity via ultrafast USB 2.0, you take full advantage of USB 2.0's 480 Mb/sec bus speed, which is even higher than FireWire 400.
Where's the 13" Macbook Pro? Not only is Apple now telling me that I have to spend $2k to get FW and expandiblity but they are forcing me to accept a monitor that is larger than what I want.
I could moan about my numerous drives and audio interfaces that i can't use with the chuffing new macbooks but i totally agree! I've been holding off to upgrade my old 12" ibook G4 to a similar size machine (and looking forward to going zippy intel with 10.5) - it's only a couple of inches difference but the 15" pro just isn't as portable (and hell of a lot more expensive) !!
no-one seems to be arguing the logic/logic express case here - logic is mac only so what if you want to upgrade to a new machine but can't afford the pro and have a fw interface? (ie affordable NOT pro!)
Apple doesn't do entry level anymore. The Macbook this time around is essentially a 13" Macbook Pro.
If only that were true. In fact is a priced like a Mac Pro but very neutered. No Express card, so discrete graphics, and no firewire. So basically you pay for a Mac Pro but lose most of the "Pro" features.
There's a reason why there is a macbook, and a macbook PRO. They have to draw the line somewhere. if you really want firewire, keep your old macbook, or shovel out another $500.
It's a marketing strategy. Apple is growing faster and faster, and they're hoping that this new line will be "an affordable switch" for PC users. Macs have always been more expensive, so the concept of spending more money on the newest technology should be nothing new.
Reasons why apple can do this:
1. You can't get mac os when you buy a sony, hp, dell, whatever!
2. People always think that macs are better(this is an "image")
when you have that image, you can do shit like take away a FW port and let people bitch. They're still gonna grow, they're still going to be amazing machines. SO STOP CRYING AND WORK OVERTIME FOR ANOTHER FEW WEEKS SO U CAN AFFORD A PRO!
"FireWire?s MacBook absence?inconvenience or fatal flaw??
In short, the new MacBook has a lot to offer buyers?faster graphics and video than before, an even stronger and more durable chassis, a backlit keyboard for high-end users, and many other enhancements. FireWire?s absence is certainly disappointing and will surely be felt for a while by Mac users who had invested in peripherals that use the interface, but I suspect most people will make the transition, and will ultimately find that they?re not missing much by making the switch."
Comments
Go for it anyway. Same price as a Macbook Pro. Well, not exactly.
http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/sony...-32518039.html
They've just been marked down $250 off- so only- $1650 same as MacBook. New models will be out in 2 weeks with BLu-ray. But no Leopard ? Vista? I don't think I could.
Unfortunately as aesthetics increasingly the driving force, the hardware frustration of Mac is getting closer to the software frustration of windows. Not there yet, but wait a year or two until Ive decides to base the entire laptop line off of the air.
Well put- unfortunately.
Ah, so much angst over something that some cable or a simple adapter will fix.... (and that too, only for those choosing to restrict themselves, by choice or necessity, to the MB or the MBA).
ha obviously not a firewire user...
if only i was so "lucky" (to not be stuck with thousands of dollars of audio interface and post processing equipment and hundreds of dollars of apple software which needs FW)
...and before you reply "u can afford an MBP" think 'form factor' and 'MBP now heavier with one less firewire interface'
But they are the ones buying new macs in the greatest numbers.
Existing Mac users upgrading a two-year-old MacBook Core Duo are the minority. Jobs and "Jony" know that the REAL pricing decisions are made by switchers, who, as you've said, don't give two flits about Firewire.
*To them, $50 might make or break a system.
*To them, sidemounted blinky-lights (worthless battery indicator) is more important than a foreign connector (firewore)
*To them, the choice to switch is an uphill one. All of their software has to be re-purchased for Mac
For existing mac users, the choice is less important.
*You have a platform with which you are (ostensibly) happy. Windows is foreign.
*You have lots of software running on MacOS, perhaps software for which there is no good Windows alternative.
*MAYBE, you have a firewire drive, camera, scanner, audio box, etc.
BUT, you are already a user. The general public (and MANY professionals inc. graphics and video guys) don't upgrade their machines every year. You have a system that works. Poor college students buy a machine when they start school, and MAYBE a new one if they go to grad school. Laptops aren't purchased anew each year.
All of the above "existing" users aren't in Apple's sights. We don't bring money in like the hordes of switchers.
Simply put, Apple is following the diminishing retail $$ and catering to users who are actually BUYING their products. Only problem is, those buyers aren't mac users.
Those are good points. I agree with everything you posted. There is one caveat. A fraction of us existing [long time] mac users upgrade regularly for a number of reasons
Something I thought about. There was scpeculation of FW via the CAT5E jack[using an adapter] before the announcmeent, that would be a great compromise of it offered the throughput(which I am sure it does) since we dont use the CAT5 jack here at home since our WiFi works well. Thats the kind of innovation I expect from Apple.... For your critics, innovation being the implementation of said tech, not necessarily creation of the tech, per se.
Just a thought.
Ah, so much angst over something that some cable or a simple adapter will fix.... (and that too, only for those choosing to restrict themselves, by choice or necessity, to the MB or the MBA).
A simple adapter cannot bring USB up to FW speeds. People can no longer capture video from their miniDV cameras without experiencing dropped frames on the MacBooks and if they use TimeMachine, their backups will take forever. I find it ridiculous that Apple pushed their new OS with TimeMachine as a big feature and has now crippled it on the MacBooks with the removal of FW. Also, I think that Apple should have left FW400 on the MacBooks and added an eSATA port to the MacBook Pros.
They've just been marked down $250 off- so only- $1650 same as MacBook. New models will be out in 2 weeks with BLu-ray. But no Leopard ? Vista? I don't think I could.
Not anywhere near the same Intel Core 2 Duo (1.06 GHz); RAM installed: 1 GB DDR2 SDRAM. 100 GB drive. And a 11.1"?
Jobs probably saved us all some money there by not putting a FW400 port in the MB.
Also not like you can't buy new external cases for your current external drives. USB ones are dirt cheap.
Not anywhere near the same Intel Core 2 Duo (1.06 GHz); RAM installed: 1 GB DDR2 SDRAM. 100 GB drive. And a 11.1"…
Same price I said , that's all. Stop twisting things around. And I was responding to your post:
Originally Posted by Abster2core
Go for it anyway. Same price as a Macbook Pro.
You really have a lot of issues- don't you?
That's what i was meaning...if i'm running Logic Pro on my Powerbook G4 with 1 usb for ext HDD, 1usb for mouse(and USB key for transfers) and FW400 for Motu Traveller...i'm screwed now.
I love it. I just go next door and the guys burst out laughing?
But they did have some comments:
You weren't screwed last week, or the last 'how many' years you've had your Powerbook G4.
"if i'm running Logic Pro?" I gather you don't now.
By the way, MOTU doesn't agree with you.
http://www.motu.com/newsitems/new-ma...ur-motu-studio
Not anywhere near the same Intel Core 2 Duo (1.06 GHz); RAM installed: 1 GB DDR2 SDRAM. 100 GB drive. And a 11.1"…
Same price I said , that's all. Stop twisting things around. And I was responding to your post:
Originally Posted by Abster2core
Go for it anyway. Same price as a Macbook Pro.
You really have a lot of issues- don't you?
Well then we'll have to agree to disagree.
However, if you go to Best Buy and buy a external HDD, almost all are USB. There are a few USB/FW but most are pure USB.
But when you go to the Apple store or buy from the online Apple store there is a great selection of FW HDDs. Even FW 800 drives which I've never seen at a BB.
I don't know where Mac users get their external HDDs or peripherals in general, but if they get them at an Apple store, which isn't improbably, there is a good chance its FW.
That's why I suspect, but have no proof, that FW use among Mac users is higher than for pc users.
Time Capsule. No FireWire.
Same price I said , that's all. Stop twisting things around. And I was responding to your post:
You really have a lot of issues- don't you?
My apologies. I was just trying to help you out. But you don't own a Mac now, do you?
By the way, MOTU doesn't agree with you.
This is interesting.
The affordable 13-inch MacBook provides USB2 connectivity for audio I/O, and the MOTU 828mkII USB2 audio interface is the perfect professional audio I/O solution for this new generation of MacBooks. With plug-and-play connectivity via ultrafast USB 2.0, you take full advantage of USB 2.0's 480 Mb/sec bus speed, which is even higher than FireWire 400.
Where's the 13" Macbook Pro? Not only is Apple now telling me that I have to spend $2k to get FW and expandiblity but they are forcing me to accept a monitor that is larger than what I want.
I could moan about my numerous drives and audio interfaces that i can't use with the chuffing new macbooks but i totally agree! I've been holding off to upgrade my old 12" ibook G4 to a similar size machine (and looking forward to going zippy intel with 10.5) - it's only a couple of inches difference but the 15" pro just isn't as portable (and hell of a lot more expensive) !!
no-one seems to be arguing the logic/logic express case here - logic is mac only so what if you want to upgrade to a new machine but can't afford the pro and have a fw interface? (ie affordable NOT pro!)
damn you apple...
Apple doesn't do entry level anymore. The Macbook this time around is essentially a 13" Macbook Pro.
If only that were true. In fact is a priced like a Mac Pro but very neutered. No Express card, so discrete graphics, and no firewire. So basically you pay for a Mac Pro but lose most of the "Pro" features.
It's a marketing strategy. Apple is growing faster and faster, and they're hoping that this new line will be "an affordable switch" for PC users. Macs have always been more expensive, so the concept of spending more money on the newest technology should be nothing new.
Reasons why apple can do this:
1. You can't get mac os when you buy a sony, hp, dell, whatever!
2. People always think that macs are better(this is an "image")
when you have that image, you can do shit like take away a FW port and let people bitch. They're still gonna grow, they're still going to be amazing machines. SO STOP CRYING AND WORK OVERTIME FOR ANOTHER FEW WEEKS SO U CAN AFFORD A PRO!
"FireWire?s MacBook absence?inconvenience or fatal flaw??
In short, the new MacBook has a lot to offer buyers?faster graphics and video than before, an even stronger and more durable chassis, a backlit keyboard for high-end users, and many other enhancements. FireWire?s absence is certainly disappointing and will surely be felt for a while by Mac users who had invested in peripherals that use the interface, but I suspect most people will make the transition, and will ultimately find that they?re not missing much by making the switch."
http://www.macworld.com/article/1362..._firewire.html