Umm...wasn't this a thread about what should he say to convince his parents to buy him a Mac and not what sucks on a Mac, or a PC? Lets stay on topic folks. If I was a moderator, I'd delete about half the posts in here because they have nothing to do with the actual thread itself. The whole idea is, he wants a Mac. I doubt wants to hear crap about flaws in the Mac OS, or Windows OS.
You do realize how idiotic and contradictory this post is? He is looking for reasons to buy a Mac; pointing out the flaws in the competition, and well as OSX, is certainly relevant.
You do realize how idiotic and contradictory this post is? He is looking for reasons to buy a Mac; pointing out the flaws in the competition, and well as OSX, is certainly relevant.
The problem was that this thread wasn't turning into what you said. It was turing into a pissing match of people trying to prove others wrong. My point is very valid and isn't idiotic. It is however idiotic to not realize what people are doing in this particular thread.
PS @ ICD-EVIL: Congratulations on your anti-fanboy rant, and on your open awareness of the many areas where apple could improve. "Opposition is true friendship."
You know, I hear that about Vista64 a lot. Either that's a myth or I'm really lucky. I have been running Vista64 since it came out and it's been solid as a rock... and I have yet to run into any kind of driver issue.
Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to work with OSX, but I've not found Vista64 to be any kind of mess.
There are varying reports. In some cases, 64bit Vista is faster and smoother. In some cases, hardware conflicts, software, gaming... people face difficulties.
All I care about nowadays when it comes to PCs is gaming. I used to run a decent rig... But the continuous energy needed to maintain, update, etc. a Windows PC to keep it in good form for smooth, rich gaming experiences... just took up too much non-productive, non-gaming time. And I am very particular when it comes to gaming. I want my components to work well, overclock well, and need not be ultra high super fast, but least amount of time wasting and background processes. Stable enough to overclock and run RAID 0 as well... Ah, that was sweet.
But yeah, the effort needed to keep a good gaming PC ticking along... is quite a lot.
(I'm not saying the Mac is a great gaming machine per se... Just pointing out the incentive for me to go back to PC is limited nowadays).
Please do us a favor and stop posting nonsense, because apparently you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about! Sharing on Mac OS is a "very long winded task"? Oh really?? If you call going to System Preferences-> Sharing and choosing whatever you need to share (including a printer) a "very long winded task" then... No comment.
You like to build your own machine from scratch, swap out a part or two? That's cool. But you see, there's no need to do that with the Mac! One can easily run Leopard on a 4 year old machine without any problem. Is it the case with Vista?? That sorry excuse for an OS (Vista) will consume 2 Gigs of RAM just to run itself.
Running a free anti-virus software will keep your PC free of viruses, adware and spyware? Yeah right!
Vista will run just fine on 1GB P4 2.6GHz (box I have in front of me in the office), which is at least 4 years old... so yeah. I don't see why it should not run on a bit slower P4 processors as well.
I eventually did upgrade RAM to 2GB as I am doing company's newsletters, flyers, website etc... but for Office, Internet, Mail, remote connections... 1GB is OK.
Additionally, someone mentioned that PC has to be replaced more often. Would not agree. I still have and occasionally use (almost) 7 years old Toshiba Satellite 1000... with P3 1GHz, 512MB of RAM and 15 GB HDD. Sure it is still running on original XP Home (but with all updates installed) and Office 2003, but it runs as it did the first day. Only reason for more frequent investments in PC are if you want latest graphics card or CRYSIS does not run so smooth on your AMD 64 X2. Much as OS and everyday apps are considered, you really don't need to update any more often.
I didn't have much chance to work with Mac, but much as I did, I would agree that for long time Windows user OSX - or any other alien OS - is as confusing as other OS-es are for Mac user.
Free... or any other... AV software will give you reasonable protection but will not keep you absolutely safe. Yes you do need to exercise some common sense and avoid clicking attachments named "Obama's naked wife picture.exe" from unknown sender... but considering that Apple is recommending AV software as of recently (wonder what they know that we still don't), AV and common sense will be required on Mac soon.
A friend asked me to put together a list of reasons to buy a Mac that he can use to convince his parents to get him a MacBook instead of a PC. I put together these seven already, but I'm sure there're some missing and would appreciate the help.
There are zero viruses on the Mac
Comes pre-installed with industry-leading applications like iPhoto, iMovie and Time Machine for automated backups.
If necessary, it's possible to run Windows on a Mac
Apple Stores offer free technical support
Macs have the highest customer satisfaction ratings and are more reliable
Macs are widely considered easier to use?not just from a user interface point of view, but also when it comes to common tasks like networking
It's easier to instal and uninstall applications
Also, while I think that style is a responsible consideration, my friends will only be swayed by objective facts. Thanks.
um...so why is Apple suddenly recommending Anti Virus software..? But one thing is true - Mac will never have so many viruses as Windows do.
please define industry-leading in this case. I keep that term for big league, like Photoshop, Final Cut, Premiere... iLife is nice pack of home-use programs, nothing more, nothing less.
true, but if you really need Windows, you can do Windows machine and save a few bucks... or, say, purchase iLife apps equivalents of your choice.
No complains here
More reliable than..? They are based on the same hardware nowadays. PC is spread over all market segments, ultra-cheap to high-end. Some business grade machines - like Lenovo R/T/X or HP ElliteBooks are as solid as they come, but you can also get same specs but much cheaper BENQ laptop that will, statistically, break more often.
Don't know much about Mac networking, so can't comment. Do you know much about Windows networking, by the way?
Now this is interesting. I always though clicking on UNINSTALL button in Windows Ad/Remove Programs panel is as simple as it comes. How do you uninstall apps on Mac..?
Most macs, (from an everyday user perspective),have a much longer life over PC's.
A PC machine must be updated every 2-3 years, macs 4-6 years.
MUUUUCH less upkeep, and a smoother OS
Must is so hard word. Only for gamers or people who always need extra atom of power (3D animation, CAD etc) frequent upgrades are required. Normal users - no. Out of 7 working computers in my house, 4 are older than 4 years.
Of course, open architecture of PC is making them much easier to upgrade, so many people will do so - just because they can. On most Macs, you can use what you have or purchase new - updates are very limited. Thus people stay with their staff longer.
at the end of the day, easy upgrading is an advantage for PC, not the other way around.
A more attractive upgrade path (to 64-bit Snow Leopard + Nvidia etc.).
Access to Unix under the hood.
Lower power consumption (on the Mini).
Quieter (often).
Trending "greener" (New MacBricks got a top environmental rating).
Company is the most financially secure (it's hiring, not firing or hire-freezing).
Sturdier (the MacBrick laptops, that is).
They do look nice. Sometimes a bit girlish, but nice.
Upgrade path... um... you are putting that as if Nvidia is Mac exclusive. Who is to say at this point that 64-bit Snow Leopard + Nvidia is more attractive (and for whom?) than Windows 7 + Nvidia/ATI..?
Power consumption, noise... also relative. My Centrino 2 HP notebook is whisper quiet (fan is actually off most of the time, and hardly audible when works) and is extremely low on power consumption.
Sturdier... I hope someone (with lots of money) will put MacBrick and, say, Lenovo T, on such test. Until that happens, it is hard to take for granted that aluminium is stronger than magnesium alloy.
Vista will run just fine on 1GB P4 2.6GHz (box I have in front of me in the office), which is at least 4 years old... so yeah. I don't see why it should not run on a bit slower P4 processors as well.
Listen, I don't know what you mean by "Vista will run just fine". Maybe we have different expectations of how the computer should perform... P4 2.6GHz? Well, Leopard can run on an old 867MHz processor. Can Vista do the same? But that's not the case. If you get a chance, work on a Mac for a week or two, get used to it ( I do admit it takes a little getting used to running a different OS) and then come back here tell us about your new experience. For starters, you won't see any stupid pop-up windows when you connect a new device to you computer saying: "Oh man... You just plugged something into me... Let me think what the hell it is and search for drivers..." When you plug something into Mac, you'll see it mounted on the desktop within a few seconds without any useless comments! And this is just an example.
In my opinion, one of the biggest problem with Windows is the ZOO of drivers written God knows where and only God knows by whom! They will kill any system no matter how much effort the developers put into creating an OS! This is not the case with Mac OS. 99% of the time there's no need to install any drivers.
Listen, I don't know what you mean by "Vista will run just fine". Maybe we have different expectations of how the computer should perform... P4 2.6GHz? Well, Leopard can run on an old 867MHz processor. Can Vista do the same? But that's not the case. If you get a chance, work on a Mac for a week or two, get used to it ( I do admit it takes a little getting used to running a different OS) and then come back here tell us about your new experience. For starters, you won't see any stupid pop-up windows when you connect a new device to you computer saying: "Oh man... You just plugged something into me... Let me think what the hell it is and search for drivers..." When you plug something into Mac, you'll see it mounted on the desktop within a few seconds without any useless comments! And this is just an example.
In my case, "just fine" means Dreamweaver CS3, CorelDRAW X3 and PhotoPAINT X3, Office 2007... work on Vista as fast as they were working on XP (my perception, didn't really measure). Vista does take some more time to boot - I'd say 10 to 15 seconds longer than XP in my case. On the other hand, it is more stable and multitasks better than XP. I usually have opened DWCS3, CDRX3, PPX3, Outlook, Word, 2 web browsers, one or more remote desktop connections. With 2GB switching is smooth and there is no - again, perceived - slowdown compared to having only one application opened.
In short, I'm finding performance of this ageing box more than adequate. Now... could it be faster with C2D? Sure. Do I need it? Not really for my work. I don't feel slowed down. I do have dual core desktop and notebook at home, so it is not like I am saying what I am saying just because I don't know better.
People were installing Vista on netbooks with 900MHz Celerons, so yes, it will work there as well. How fast? No idea. Point is not that it works (at all) on my office P4; point is that it works in perfectly usable manner.
Do you really know what you're talking about regarding pop-ups..? When you plug in new device for the first time, Vista will show small transparent Window in the lower right corner saying that new hardware is detected and driver is being installed. After a few seconds, text will change to a message that new device is ready for use. That happens only on first connection of new device, window is small, transparent, will disappear after a few seconds and in general does not interfere with whatever you're doing. XP do have annoying pop-ups that were refusing to go away for ages, but that OS is 7 years old.
Never the less. I was considering Mac for my notebook but opted for HP notebook this time; beside the practical reasons (mostly battery life), giving up on Mac for now was also because I could not get trial version of Mac OS that would run on any of my PCs, and since I don't know anyone with Mac, I could not try it before I buy it (few minutes in shop doesn't really count). I would like a chance to try Mac, though. I was long-time Amiga user and in general I like to experience different things.
In my opinion, one of the biggest problem with Windows is the ZOO of drivers written God knows where and only God knows by whom! They will kill any system no matter how much effort the developers put into creating an OS! This is not the case with Mac OS. 99% of the time there's no need to install any drivers.
Thing is, number of additional hardware you can plug in to PC is so huge you just can't have them all on OS installation media. Plus, new hardware is coming out daily.
Everything mainstream - digital cameras, flash drives, external HDDs and optical drives... will work automatically. You'll need extra drivers for some more exotic stuff - say, some gaming devices, scanners - but most of them would not work on Mac anyway.
Mac users are misinterpreting driver's "issue" on PC because they are relating to Mac situation where - Mac Pro aside - you can not really do much in terms of hardware, thus drivers are not an issue. Since I've built my current PC, I've changed graphics card twice (can't help it - still love playing games) and audio card as well. I've also connected Logitech joypad, flight joystick and racing wheel. I did have to reinstall graphics drivers for every new video card (and update them once or twice a year for the same card) and I had to install audio drivers for Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer audio card. For game controllers, I did install Logitech gaming software with first controller, and it detected and let me configure other Logitech controllers I've add later on (though I'm pretty sure they'd work with default Windows game controllers driver, but with some limitations customization wise).
But if you are not gaming, changing or adding new hardware - you can simply let software be. I never-ever updated/changed a single driver on my 7 years old Toshiba Satellite 1000 notebook - it still works with originally shipped drivers, only Windows updates were set to automatic... then again, only upgrade on that little number was some more RAM (came with optimistic 128MB).
Thing is, number of additional hardware you can plug in to PC is so huge you just can't have them all on OS installation media. Plus, new hardware is coming out daily.
Everything mainstream - digital cameras, flash drives, external HDDs and optical drives... will work automatically. You'll need extra drivers for some more exotic stuff - say, some gaming devices, scanners - but most of them would not work on Mac anyway.
Mac users are misinterpreting driver's "issue" on PC because they are relating to Mac situation where - Mac Pro aside - you can not really do much in terms of hardware, thus drivers are not an issue. Since I've built my current PC, I've changed graphics card twice (can't help it - still love playing games) and audio card as well. I've also connected Logitech joypad, flight joystick and racing wheel. I did have to reinstall graphics drivers for every new video card (and update them once or twice a year for the same card) and I had to install audio drivers for Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer audio card. For game controllers, I did install Logitech gaming software with first controller, and it detected and let me configure other Logitech controllers I've add later on (though I'm pretty sure they'd work with default Windows game controllers driver, but with some limitations customization wise).
The drivers for all that stuff is there (save the X-FI), Apple just choses to do everything behind the scenes and release new drivers in point releases instead of having the manufacturer release drivers themselves in most cases. Being a much newer operating system, OSX also handles drivers in a much more modular fashion.
The drivers for all that stuff is there (save the X-FI), Apple just choses to do everything behind the scenes and release new drivers in point releases instead of having the manufacturer release drivers themselves in most cases. Being a much newer operating system, OSX also handles drivers in a much more modular fashion.
Does that mean that Apple themselves actually write drivers for every new printer, scanner, game controller, webcam, keyboard/mouse with extra features... that is compatible with Mac?
I don't think that is possible.
Is there any reliable info on how many devices OSX supports out of the box - without applying "external" drivers?
Does that mean that Apple themselves actually write drivers for every new printer, scanner, game controller, webcam, keyboard/mouse with extra features... that is compatible with Mac?
I don't think that is possible.
A little bit a both. Some companies write their own, some have people assigned to Apple, and other hand over their source code and have Apple write their own drivers for that device. Webcams use a the driverless UVC system and keyboard/mouse drivers are universal save the Mighty mouse. I wish they would do a plug-in for keyboards and mice. Game controller support...well kinda sucks. It would be nice if they were to put a game controller tab in the keyboard/mouse window and made it modular as well.
Quote:
Is there any reliable info on how many devices OSX supports out of the box - without applying "external" drivers?
No, the list would be too big, but I'll list the north bridges Leopard alone it has to support.
A little bit a both. Some companies write their own, some have people assigned to Apple, and other hand over their source code and have Apple write their own drivers for that device. Webcams use a the driverless UVC system and keyboard/mouse drivers are universal save the Mighty mouse. I wish they would do a plug-in for keyboards and mice. Game controller support...well kinda sucks. It would be nice if they were to put a game controller tab in the keyboard/mouse window and made it modular as well.
No, the list would be too big, but I'll list the north bridges Leopard alone it has to support.
Intel
Nvidia GeForce 9400M
Intel GM965
Intel GM945
Intel 5400
Intel 5000X
G5
Apple U4
Apple U3/U3H/U3L
G4
Apple U2
Apple intrepid
Apple Uni-North
Apple Pangea
Honestly, that does not sound different from, say, Vista's hardware support. For example, every standard keyboard and mouse will work with Vista default support; multimedia keyboards, gamer mice... will also work, but some features might not be supported (some non-common additional keys, DPI change for mice) without extra driver.
Etc etc.
When I asked about hardware support list, I was thinking about numbers only... not detailed list I'm pretty sure such numbers can be found for Vista, of course only Microsoft (maybe) knows how reliable and realistic number is...
Honestly, that does not sound different from, say, Vista's hardware support. For example, every standard keyboard and mouse will work with Vista default support; multimedia keyboards, gamer mice... will also work, but some features might not be supported (some non-common additional keys, DPI change for mice) without extra driver.
You actually need a new control panel for extra mouse features on the Mac.
Comments
Umm...wasn't this a thread about what should he say to convince his parents to buy him a Mac and not what sucks on a Mac, or a PC? Lets stay on topic folks. If I was a moderator, I'd delete about half the posts in here because they have nothing to do with the actual thread itself. The whole idea is, he wants a Mac. I doubt wants to hear crap about flaws in the Mac OS, or Windows OS.
You do realize how idiotic and contradictory this post is? He is looking for reasons to buy a Mac; pointing out the flaws in the competition, and well as OSX, is certainly relevant.
You do realize how idiotic and contradictory this post is? He is looking for reasons to buy a Mac; pointing out the flaws in the competition, and well as OSX, is certainly relevant.
The problem was that this thread wasn't turning into what you said. It was turing into a pissing match of people trying to prove others wrong. My point is very valid and isn't idiotic. It is however idiotic to not realize what people are doing in this particular thread.
none
oh, there is one..... if you particularly don't like money.
You know, I hear that about Vista64 a lot. Either that's a myth or I'm really lucky. I have been running Vista64 since it came out and it's been solid as a rock... and I have yet to run into any kind of driver issue.
Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to work with OSX, but I've not found Vista64 to be any kind of mess.
There are varying reports. In some cases, 64bit Vista is faster and smoother. In some cases, hardware conflicts, software, gaming... people face difficulties.
All I care about nowadays when it comes to PCs is gaming. I used to run a decent rig... But the continuous energy needed to maintain, update, etc. a Windows PC to keep it in good form for smooth, rich gaming experiences... just took up too much non-productive, non-gaming time. And I am very particular when it comes to gaming. I want my components to work well, overclock well, and need not be ultra high super fast, but least amount of time wasting and background processes. Stable enough to overclock and run RAID 0 as well... Ah, that was sweet.
But yeah, the effort needed to keep a good gaming PC ticking along... is quite a lot.
(I'm not saying the Mac is a great gaming machine per se... Just pointing out the incentive for me to go back to PC is limited nowadays).
mrochester
Please do us a favor and stop posting nonsense, because apparently you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about! Sharing on Mac OS is a "very long winded task"? Oh really?? If you call going to System Preferences-> Sharing and choosing whatever you need to share (including a printer) a "very long winded task" then... No comment.
You like to build your own machine from scratch, swap out a part or two? That's cool. But you see, there's no need to do that with the Mac! One can easily run Leopard on a 4 year old machine without any problem. Is it the case with Vista?? That sorry excuse for an OS (Vista) will consume 2 Gigs of RAM just to run itself.
Running a free anti-virus software will keep your PC free of viruses, adware and spyware? Yeah right!
Vista will run just fine on 1GB P4 2.6GHz (box I have in front of me in the office), which is at least 4 years old... so yeah. I don't see why it should not run on a bit slower P4 processors as well.
I eventually did upgrade RAM to 2GB as I am doing company's newsletters, flyers, website etc... but for Office, Internet, Mail, remote connections... 1GB is OK.
Additionally, someone mentioned that PC has to be replaced more often. Would not agree. I still have and occasionally use (almost) 7 years old Toshiba Satellite 1000... with P3 1GHz, 512MB of RAM and 15 GB HDD. Sure it is still running on original XP Home (but with all updates installed) and Office 2003, but it runs as it did the first day. Only reason for more frequent investments in PC are if you want latest graphics card or CRYSIS does not run so smooth on your AMD 64 X2. Much as OS and everyday apps are considered, you really don't need to update any more often.
I didn't have much chance to work with Mac, but much as I did, I would agree that for long time Windows user OSX - or any other alien OS - is as confusing as other OS-es are for Mac user.
Free... or any other... AV software will give you reasonable protection but will not keep you absolutely safe. Yes you do need to exercise some common sense and avoid clicking attachments named "Obama's naked wife picture.exe" from unknown sender... but considering that Apple is recommending AV software as of recently (wonder what they know that we still don't), AV and common sense will be required on Mac soon.
A friend asked me to put together a list of reasons to buy a Mac that he can use to convince his parents to get him a MacBook instead of a PC. I put together these seven already, but I'm sure there're some missing and would appreciate the help.
- There are zero viruses on the Mac
- Comes pre-installed with industry-leading applications like iPhoto, iMovie and Time Machine for automated backups.
- If necessary, it's possible to run Windows on a Mac
- Apple Stores offer free technical support
- Macs have the highest customer satisfaction ratings and are more reliable
- Macs are widely considered easier to use?not just from a user interface point of view, but also when it comes to common tasks like networking
- It's easier to instal and uninstall applications
Also, while I think that style is a responsible consideration, my friends will only be swayed by objective facts. Thanks.Most macs, (from an everyday user perspective),have a much longer life over PC's.
A PC machine must be updated every 2-3 years, macs 4-6 years.
MUUUUCH less upkeep, and a smoother OS
Must is so hard word. Only for gamers or people who always need extra atom of power (3D animation, CAD etc) frequent upgrades are required. Normal users - no. Out of 7 working computers in my house, 4 are older than 4 years.
Of course, open architecture of PC is making them much easier to upgrade, so many people will do so - just because they can. On most Macs, you can use what you have or purchase new - updates are very limited. Thus people stay with their staff longer.
at the end of the day, easy upgrading is an advantage for PC, not the other way around.
Higher resale value.
Better looking.
A more attractive upgrade path (to 64-bit Snow Leopard + Nvidia etc.).
Access to Unix under the hood.
Lower power consumption (on the Mini).
Quieter (often).
Trending "greener" (New MacBricks got a top environmental rating).
Company is the most financially secure (it's hiring, not firing or hire-freezing).
Sturdier (the MacBrick laptops, that is).
They do look nice. Sometimes a bit girlish, but nice.
Upgrade path... um... you are putting that as if Nvidia is Mac exclusive. Who is to say at this point that 64-bit Snow Leopard + Nvidia is more attractive (and for whom?) than Windows 7 + Nvidia/ATI..?
Power consumption, noise... also relative. My Centrino 2 HP notebook is whisper quiet (fan is actually off most of the time, and hardly audible when works) and is extremely low on power consumption.
Sturdier... I hope someone (with lots of money) will put MacBrick and, say, Lenovo T, on such test. Until that happens, it is hard to take for granted that aluminium is stronger than magnesium alloy.
1gb is the minimum but Vista is very comfortable on 2gb of RAM. You'll need 4gb for the latest games.
Um... like..? I recently finished Crysis Warhead and am playing Far Cry 2 these days and all runs sweet on 2GB...
Vista will run just fine on 1GB P4 2.6GHz (box I have in front of me in the office), which is at least 4 years old... so yeah. I don't see why it should not run on a bit slower P4 processors as well.
Listen, I don't know what you mean by "Vista will run just fine". Maybe we have different expectations of how the computer should perform... P4 2.6GHz? Well, Leopard can run on an old 867MHz processor. Can Vista do the same? But that's not the case. If you get a chance, work on a Mac for a week or two, get used to it ( I do admit it takes a little getting used to running a different OS) and then come back here tell us about your new experience. For starters, you won't see any stupid pop-up windows when you connect a new device to you computer saying: "Oh man... You just plugged something into me... Let me think what the hell it is and search for drivers..." When you plug something into Mac, you'll see it mounted on the desktop within a few seconds without any useless comments! And this is just an example.
In my opinion, one of the biggest problem with Windows is the ZOO of drivers written God knows where and only God knows by whom! They will kill any system no matter how much effort the developers put into creating an OS! This is not the case with Mac OS. 99% of the time there's no need to install any drivers.
Listen, I don't know what you mean by "Vista will run just fine". Maybe we have different expectations of how the computer should perform... P4 2.6GHz? Well, Leopard can run on an old 867MHz processor. Can Vista do the same? But that's not the case. If you get a chance, work on a Mac for a week or two, get used to it ( I do admit it takes a little getting used to running a different OS) and then come back here tell us about your new experience. For starters, you won't see any stupid pop-up windows when you connect a new device to you computer saying: "Oh man... You just plugged something into me... Let me think what the hell it is and search for drivers..." When you plug something into Mac, you'll see it mounted on the desktop within a few seconds without any useless comments! And this is just an example.
In my case, "just fine" means Dreamweaver CS3, CorelDRAW X3 and PhotoPAINT X3, Office 2007... work on Vista as fast as they were working on XP (my perception, didn't really measure). Vista does take some more time to boot - I'd say 10 to 15 seconds longer than XP in my case. On the other hand, it is more stable and multitasks better than XP. I usually have opened DWCS3, CDRX3, PPX3, Outlook, Word, 2 web browsers, one or more remote desktop connections. With 2GB switching is smooth and there is no - again, perceived - slowdown compared to having only one application opened.
In short, I'm finding performance of this ageing box more than adequate. Now... could it be faster with C2D? Sure. Do I need it? Not really for my work. I don't feel slowed down. I do have dual core desktop and notebook at home, so it is not like I am saying what I am saying just because I don't know better.
People were installing Vista on netbooks with 900MHz Celerons, so yes, it will work there as well. How fast? No idea. Point is not that it works (at all) on my office P4; point is that it works in perfectly usable manner.
Do you really know what you're talking about regarding pop-ups..? When you plug in new device for the first time, Vista will show small transparent Window in the lower right corner saying that new hardware is detected and driver is being installed. After a few seconds, text will change to a message that new device is ready for use. That happens only on first connection of new device, window is small, transparent, will disappear after a few seconds and in general does not interfere with whatever you're doing. XP do have annoying pop-ups that were refusing to go away for ages, but that OS is 7 years old.
Never the less. I was considering Mac for my notebook but opted for HP notebook this time; beside the practical reasons (mostly battery life), giving up on Mac for now was also because I could not get trial version of Mac OS that would run on any of my PCs, and since I don't know anyone with Mac, I could not try it before I buy it (few minutes in shop doesn't really count). I would like a chance to try Mac, though. I was long-time Amiga user and in general I like to experience different things.
To all you Windows-lovers Mac-haters
In my opinion, one of the biggest problem with Windows is the ZOO of drivers written God knows where and only God knows by whom! They will kill any system no matter how much effort the developers put into creating an OS! This is not the case with Mac OS. 99% of the time there's no need to install any drivers.
Thing is, number of additional hardware you can plug in to PC is so huge you just can't have them all on OS installation media. Plus, new hardware is coming out daily.
Everything mainstream - digital cameras, flash drives, external HDDs and optical drives... will work automatically. You'll need extra drivers for some more exotic stuff - say, some gaming devices, scanners - but most of them would not work on Mac anyway.
Mac users are misinterpreting driver's "issue" on PC because they are relating to Mac situation where - Mac Pro aside - you can not really do much in terms of hardware, thus drivers are not an issue. Since I've built my current PC, I've changed graphics card twice (can't help it - still love playing games) and audio card as well. I've also connected Logitech joypad, flight joystick and racing wheel. I did have to reinstall graphics drivers for every new video card (and update them once or twice a year for the same card) and I had to install audio drivers for Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer audio card. For game controllers, I did install Logitech gaming software with first controller, and it detected and let me configure other Logitech controllers I've add later on (though I'm pretty sure they'd work with default Windows game controllers driver, but with some limitations customization wise).
But if you are not gaming, changing or adding new hardware - you can simply let software be. I never-ever updated/changed a single driver on my 7 years old Toshiba Satellite 1000 notebook - it still works with originally shipped drivers, only Windows updates were set to automatic... then again, only upgrade on that little number was some more RAM (came with optimistic 128MB).
Thing is, number of additional hardware you can plug in to PC is so huge you just can't have them all on OS installation media. Plus, new hardware is coming out daily.
Everything mainstream - digital cameras, flash drives, external HDDs and optical drives... will work automatically. You'll need extra drivers for some more exotic stuff - say, some gaming devices, scanners - but most of them would not work on Mac anyway.
Mac users are misinterpreting driver's "issue" on PC because they are relating to Mac situation where - Mac Pro aside - you can not really do much in terms of hardware, thus drivers are not an issue. Since I've built my current PC, I've changed graphics card twice (can't help it - still love playing games) and audio card as well. I've also connected Logitech joypad, flight joystick and racing wheel. I did have to reinstall graphics drivers for every new video card (and update them once or twice a year for the same card) and I had to install audio drivers for Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer audio card. For game controllers, I did install Logitech gaming software with first controller, and it detected and let me configure other Logitech controllers I've add later on (though I'm pretty sure they'd work with default Windows game controllers driver, but with some limitations customization wise).
The drivers for all that stuff is there (save the X-FI), Apple just choses to do everything behind the scenes and release new drivers in point releases instead of having the manufacturer release drivers themselves in most cases. Being a much newer operating system, OSX also handles drivers in a much more modular fashion.
The drivers for all that stuff is there (save the X-FI), Apple just choses to do everything behind the scenes and release new drivers in point releases instead of having the manufacturer release drivers themselves in most cases. Being a much newer operating system, OSX also handles drivers in a much more modular fashion.
Does that mean that Apple themselves actually write drivers for every new printer, scanner, game controller, webcam, keyboard/mouse with extra features... that is compatible with Mac?
I don't think that is possible.
Is there any reliable info on how many devices OSX supports out of the box - without applying "external" drivers?
Does that mean that Apple themselves actually write drivers for every new printer, scanner, game controller, webcam, keyboard/mouse with extra features... that is compatible with Mac?
I don't think that is possible.
A little bit a both. Some companies write their own, some have people assigned to Apple, and other hand over their source code and have Apple write their own drivers for that device. Webcams use a the driverless UVC system and keyboard/mouse drivers are universal save the Mighty mouse. I wish they would do a plug-in for keyboards and mice. Game controller support...well kinda sucks. It would be nice if they were to put a game controller tab in the keyboard/mouse window and made it modular as well.
Is there any reliable info on how many devices OSX supports out of the box - without applying "external" drivers?
No, the list would be too big, but I'll list the north bridges Leopard alone it has to support.
Intel
Nvidia GeForce 9400M
Intel GM965
Intel GM945
Intel 5400
Intel 5000X
G5
Apple U4
Apple U3/U3H/U3L
G4
Apple U2
Apple intrepid
Apple Uni-North
Apple Pangea
A little bit a both. Some companies write their own, some have people assigned to Apple, and other hand over their source code and have Apple write their own drivers for that device. Webcams use a the driverless UVC system and keyboard/mouse drivers are universal save the Mighty mouse. I wish they would do a plug-in for keyboards and mice. Game controller support...well kinda sucks. It would be nice if they were to put a game controller tab in the keyboard/mouse window and made it modular as well.
No, the list would be too big, but I'll list the north bridges Leopard alone it has to support.
Intel
Nvidia GeForce 9400M
Intel GM965
Intel GM945
Intel 5400
Intel 5000X
G5
Apple U4
Apple U3/U3H/U3L
G4
Apple U2
Apple intrepid
Apple Uni-North
Apple Pangea
Honestly, that does not sound different from, say, Vista's hardware support. For example, every standard keyboard and mouse will work with Vista default support; multimedia keyboards, gamer mice... will also work, but some features might not be supported (some non-common additional keys, DPI change for mice) without extra driver.
Etc etc.
When I asked about hardware support list, I was thinking about numbers only... not detailed list
Honestly, that does not sound different from, say, Vista's hardware support. For example, every standard keyboard and mouse will work with Vista default support; multimedia keyboards, gamer mice... will also work, but some features might not be supported (some non-common additional keys, DPI change for mice) without extra driver.
You actually need a new control panel for extra mouse features on the Mac.