Apple's new MacBooks have built-in copy protection measures

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  • Reply 141 of 246
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mendosi View Post


    Good point - just because it's normal doesn't mean that it's right. DRM should be working to enforce users' fair rights as well as content proverders' fair rights. And so what if the studio is forcing users to accept Terms and Conditions which abridge their fair use rights?



    You could say that people must agree to these terms before they purchase the content and therefore it's okay, but even still the terms that they want to enforce don't seem fair to normal people (like not being able to show a movie on any screen you'd like for normal personal viewing) and there is no option, often, to purchase the content under different terms which are more acceptable.



    I always hated even DVD region coding because it prevents me from doing fair and normal things (such as renting a DVD while in a foreign country and playing it on my own computer).

    I am upset that DRM is becoming more pervasive, and especially because most people will accept this fact without too much complaint.



    Mendosi



    DRM is an annoyance, but it's something that we, the consumers a whole, did to ourselves by stealing their content in the first place. Surely not everyone is guilty, but there are plenty that are and the situation is rampant. Unfortunately this affects everyone. I can't believe that anyone would say that the content providers don't have a right to protect to their content. If they are a public company, then they have a duty to take measures to protect their shareholder's investments. It's a PITA, but it's not something that can be avoided so long as the majority seek to utilize their content.
  • Reply 142 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nagromme View Post


    iTunes Plus doesn't cost any more than iTunes regular. There was a transitional time when it did (and offered you higher quality for your trouble too) but only for singles, not albums, and only when Plus was new and the record labels were hesitant to get on board. Maybe more would be on board today if singles still cost more, but I'm glad Apple dropped the price.



    It's absurd to think Apple is driving the DRM rather than the content owners driving it. The profit Apple makes from charging .30 more for certain singles for a certain period of time is trivial compared to iTunes as a whole, which in turn is a drop in the bucket compared to the device sales that Apple REALLY cares about. Apple's motivation with iTunes pricing is clearly simplicity, not pinching pennies out of us--remember how they fought against offering certain tracks for over .99? They gave in partially with Plus





    rubbish, Apple drives the DRM to ensure ITMS content can only be played on the device of THEIR choosing....ipod.
  • Reply 143 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by m2002brian View Post


    If everybody else is jumping off the bridge you might as well too??? That's all you have to say.

    The real issue is HDCP on my machine. Any CP that in introduced is repressive to the community. Just because something is standard practice (say, racial profiling) doesn't make it right. It inhibits our rights as individuals....



    Oh jesus... I didn't say I supported DRM (or HDCP for that matter), what I DID say was that a very important issue, namely that of iTunes store HD video content not being down-converted to play on an analog or non-HDCP display was being lost in the discussion about the merits of DRM!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zandros View Post


    That is not required of an HDCP link. HDCP is merely encryption for the data transport stream. It is, however, as I mentioned before, a feature that can, if the studio wants to, be enabled for AACS encrypted video. And it still doesn't resize to 480p, it resizes to a maximum of 960×540. iTunes Store video is encrypted with FairPlay DRM, not the AACS encryption scheme used for Blu-ray and HD-DVD.



    I understand what HDCP is and that AACS is a different standard that utilizes HDCP. However, nearly every article, editorial, or information sheet regarding HDCP says that it should not/does not have any affect on transmitting video over an analog connection. Likewise, it is almost universally implied that legacy digital displays utilizing DVI or HDMI WITHOUT HDCP support should be able to receive the content, just not at the native resolution/quality. Regardless of the fact that iTunes uses fairplay instead of AACS for content protection, it should still output downsampled SD video over unprotected display connections when attempting to play HDCP protected material...



    I just cannot believe that Apple would willingly omit the functionality that allows legacy devices to display iTunes video. They really want to invite the enormous backlash when millions of people with non-HDCP displays, projectors, and HDTVs can't play the brand new movie they just bought!



    Can someone tell me what the policy is for the Xbox 360, playstation 3, Amazon's tv device, the AppleTV, and other digital download services that playback HD video. I can't believe that all of these devices would block people from watching video downloads on non-HDCP displays. It's almost certain that they just downconvert it..
  • Reply 144 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    In exactly is Windows on the road to an open philosophy? I see MS trying compete with everyone and to control everything the way they always have.



    Apple nor MS are to blame or have much control over these DRM policies. If they want the right to use copy written content, they are forced to use the DRM.





    well seeing as Apple and MS combined have more than 97% of the world's computer market. Apple has 70% of the portable media market and MS has the 360, if they jointly got together and said NO to DRM then maybe the studios would listen?



    the genie won't go back in the bottle and they'll NEVER stop this.
  • Reply 145 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    DRM is an annoyance, but it's something that we, the consumers a whole, did to ourselves by stealing their content in the first place.



    I'm sorry, what? We did this? On the contrary, people wouldn't have an incentive to do this if they weren't so paranoid. This goes back to LONG before any current standards to the first VCRs, back before anyone was pirating anything.



    That said, even if you were right (and you aren't) they do a monumentally terrible job of "protecting" their content. The only people that this sort of thing inhibits are people who try to be honest. The DVD pirates over in China have no problems bypassing their locks, and neither does anyone who spends 5 minutes looking for a way around on Google. By using absurd DRM that doesn't work, they force honest people to do illegal things to get the simplest of functionality, creating more "pirates". It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
  • Reply 146 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zandros View Post


    That is not required of an HDCP link. HDCP is merely encryption for the data transport stream.



    I think what they are trying to get at is that, at least on every Windows PC I've ever seen, HDCP ONLY functions on digital connections. I saw this first hand when I played back HD-DVDs on my friends PC. If we plugged the DVI cable into the monitor with his HDCP compliant video card, the software would only display a black screen. If we plugged the VGA cable in, the video would work.



    This is also true of the Xbox 360. I know this isn't the ICT because, to my knowledge, no studio has been brave/stupid enough to activate that feature on their discs yet. The point is, something is off about Apple's implementation of HDCP. It shouldn't be active over a VGA connection.
  • Reply 147 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    DRM is an annoyance, but it's something that we, the consumers a whole, did to ourselves by stealing their content in the first place. Surely not everyone is guilty, but there are plenty that are and the situation is rampant. Unfortunately this affects everyone. I can't believe that anyone would say that the content providers don't have a right to protect to their content. If they are a public company, then they have a duty to take measures to protect their shareholder's investments. It's a PITA, but it's not something that can be avoided so long as the majority seek to utilize their content.



    this would be a fair argument if DRM was useful in combating piracy but it's not.



    In fact piracy has actually INCREASED since DRM was implemented. The only people bringing anything on themselves is the industry.



    Give us the content at a fair price with minimal restrictions as to how we use it (piracy aside) and we'll buy it..... millions of us do already!



    In life in general there are bad guys, criminals, always has been, always will be.... nothing you can do about it...some people are just like that.



    Piracy is the same.... SOME people will always do it, just that stomping on all the legitimate users in a futile attempt to stop piracy is not the best way to do it.



    wise up...
  • Reply 148 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post




    Give us the content at a fair price with minimal restrictions as to how we use it (piracy aside) and we'll buy it..... millions of us do already!



    Exactly. The iTMS is proof of that. For several keynotes after the release of the store, Jobs noted that piracy figures were markedly down once people had a way to buy music the way they wanted at a fair price.
  • Reply 149 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by websnap View Post


    With all due respect will you also boycott all BluRay players, HD Cable Boxes, HD Satellites, PS3's, XBoxes and anything else providing HD content? If not you are coming off a bit hypocritical. If apple wants to deliver HD content, thy have to play by HD rules. Simple as that. as a side note, I doubt Psystar will even be in business by the time apple implements this across their product line.



    Yes to all of the above. I will boycott all of these technologies, and encourage others to do the same.



    "As simple as that.."



    And with all due respect, business arrangements are not laws of physics. They can be made, broken, and remade without much difficulty. Apple, like Microsoft, is giving in to Hollywood's silly and short-sighted demands. They don't "have to play by HD rules" if they decided they didn't want to.
  • Reply 150 of 246
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    In fact piracy has actually INCREASED since DRM was implemented. The only people bringing anything on themselves is the industry.



    The data points to the internet being the cause and effect for increased piracy, not DRM.
  • Reply 151 of 246
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    rubbish, Apple drives the DRM to ensure ITMS content can only be played on the device of THEIR choosing....ipod.



    iTunes plus can be played on anything.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    well seeing as Apple and MS combined have more than 97% of the world's computer market. Apple has 70% of the portable media market and MS has the 360, if they jointly got together and said NO to DRM then maybe the studios would listen?



    the genie won't go back in the bottle and they'll NEVER stop this.



    They cannot jointly say no. Apple nor MS own the movie and music industries or the content.
  • Reply 152 of 246
    bsenkabsenka Posts: 799member
    The more they take anti-piracy measures, the more they drive people towards it.
  • Reply 153 of 246
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    This is similar to some of my frustrations doing a screen grab. If the DVD Player program is running, I can't do a system screen grab of anything or anywhere on the screen, even if the playback window is covered, hidden or minimized. I don't really see a decent reason for the DVD format or the movie industry to object to that, it's just a single frame and it's certainly not worth the work to piece together a frame-by-frame reconstruction of the movie.
  • Reply 154 of 246
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    This is similar to some of my frustrations doing a screen grab. If the DVD Player program is running, I can't do a system screen grab of anything or anywhere on the screen, even if the playback window is covered, hidden or minimized. I don't really see a decent reason for the DVD format or the movie industry to object to that, it's just a single frame and it's certainly not worth the work to piece together a frame-by-frame reconstruction of the movie.



    I may be completely wrong, but recall reading that the DVD consortium had major issues with OS apps for playing DVDs. I think this was a concession to get native DVD playback.



    edit: This Wikipedia page seems to back up Apple disabled screen capture to potentially keep itself out from being sued if OS X screen captures were being made of copyrighted content. Were other, less resturcitve apps being sued when this was released?
  • Reply 155 of 246
    It's time to realize ALL computer companies hate us. Apple just makes nice looking UIs and OK boxes to put it in cause they want it for themselves. They only sell it to get rich.



    Message to Apple Employee paid to read message boards:

    People don't switch from windows because they liked it. Stop trying to make it more windowsy for them. We don't need CP. For heaven sakes look how much we pay for these below average machines. If we BUY a movie from iTunes I'm going to expect it to play at full resolution no matter what I use to display it. If I'm going to copy it, it's going out the firewi...I mean USB port.



    Video through a VGA connection should display at full resolution regardless of HDCP. You see, it's impossible to make a bit for bit digital copy, (also no audio) via VGA, as VGA is ANALOG . Thus, stop messin with us.



    In the terms and agreements:

    "(aa) Movies are viewable only on your Mac or Windows computer (using iTunes 7.6 or later), iPhone, iPod touch, iPod nano (3rd or 4th generation), iPod classic, or on TVs using your Apple TV. Movies in high definition resolution (HD) are viewable only on TVs using your Apple TV and must be downloaded directly to your Apple TV. Movies are viewable only on one device at a time."



    NO Apple!!! I guess I technically I already agreed, but noooo.

    Don't tell me where I have to watch it and on how many screens I can have it on.



    CBS let's me record (via USB HD TUNER) CSI in HD to my Firewi...USB Drive (yes I know ATSC doesn't have HDCP, ....so why should anything else?). I can then play it back on my macbook via the mini-dvi to VGA adapter (to proj) and mirror the image on my macbook screen. That's two devices at once if you didn't notice. Did you notice how nice CBS was, to let me record it to my drive, and, to give me awesome mpeg-2 files to view wherever I want later?
  • Reply 156 of 246
    In actual fact, the teacher John in the article couldn't play the movie because the Sanyo projector is too outdated. Most projectors these days would play the movie no problem. Many people here complained about the DRM measures in the postings are no getting the whole idea. Most of them would encounter no problems playing anything they purchased from ITS or other places. It only posed problems when they tried projecting to an old outdated projector or dispay. (most of our TVs are flat panels, isn't it? They should play well. Older TVs don't even have VGA ports).



    I wouldn't complain my macbook that it couldn't accept serial mouse, parallel printers. Why complain here?
  • Reply 157 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by m2002brian View Post


    I currently use my Blacbook Core Duo w/ Miglia TVMini HD Tuner (via USB), connected to a Sony VPL-AW15 (is HDCP complient, however, only has 1 HDMI port (used for DishDH)) projector via. VGA. [...]



    If you are worried about using a Tuner to watch Free-to-Air HDTV, that should not be protected, and you should be very much free to use a VGA connection for that. HDCP should only be a factor if you wanted to watch a protected video, like Blu-Ray or now iTunes.



    A quick search shows that projector also has analog component inputs. I have the ViP622 HD DVR which also has component outputs, and does not use HDCP. I believe this is true of all Dish HD receivers. You could use the cheaper component connections, and free up the HDMI port (and cable) for your future computer or other device.



    General question: Do people object more to A) Having to buy new cables/adapters, or B) DRM by any name?
  • Reply 158 of 246
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jaypres View Post


    In actual fact, the teacher John in the article couldn't play the movie because the Sanyo projector is too outdated. Most projectors these days would play the movie no problem. Many people here complained about the DRM measures in the postings are no getting the whole idea. Most of them would encounter no problems playing anything they purchased from ITS or other places. It only posed problems when they tried projecting to an old outdated projector or dispay. (most of our TVs are flat panels, isn't it? They should play well. Older TVs don't even have VGA ports).



    I wouldn't complain my macbook that it couldn't accept serial mouse, parallel printers. Why complain here?



    There is a difference between incompatibility caused by copy protection and incompatibility caused by not supporting a technology, and I don't think you understand that distinction. Obviously, the VGA technology is still supported by Apple, but the problem is that the system does not allow the use of that port for protected media. If Apple thought that VGA was not worth supporting, I doubt they would continue to support it at all.
  • Reply 159 of 246
    This really p!!ses me off, and beyond the idealogical issues of DRM is bad.



    We have a conference room with remote video equipment. We run the video over CAT-5 cables with fairly expensive VGA adapters. The video equipment has capture all signals and reprocess them for teleconferences and presentations to make it as easy to use as possible for the end users.



    Doing the same with DVI requires fiber optics, and doesn't offer better resolutions.



    HDCP basically makes a Mac an unpredictable element in the system and fairly useless for me.



    Maybe my 2006 MBP is going to have to be my last Mac.
  • Reply 160 of 246
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


    This really p!!ses me off, and beyond the idealogical issues of DRM is bad.



    We have a conference room with remote video equipment.



    What media could you possibly be using in the conference room that would require HDCP?
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