Apple's new MacBooks have built-in copy protection measures

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  • Reply 161 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    There is a difference between incompatibility caused by copy protection and incompatibility caused by not supporting a technology, and I don't think you understand that distinction. Obviously, the VGA technology is still supported by Apple, but the problem is that the system does not allow the use of that port for protected media. If Apple thought that VGA was not worth supporting, I doubt they would continue to support it at all.



    Many people on WINDOWS are outputting HD DVD and Blu Ray Via VGA

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=995997



    THe XBOX 360 fully supports 1080p via VGA



    http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/xbox360/hdtv.htm



    Via Component:

    Games: 1080p (though most are native 720p upscaled)

    HD DVD: 1080i ONLY.

    SD DVD: 480p ONLY



    Via VGA:

    Games: 1080p (though most are native 720p upscaled)

    HD DVD: 1080p

    SD DVD: 1080p (upscaled)
  • Reply 162 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    DRM is an annoyance, but it's something that we, the consumers a whole, did to ourselves by stealing their content in the first place. Surely not everyone is guilty, but there are plenty that are and the situation is rampant.



    NO. This is a solution in search of a problem. There is no real proof out there that has not been widely rebuked that consumer copying of movies leads to reduced sales.



    What the studios want is more CONTROL of the content. DRM gives them more control over the consumer-- ways to charge by the viewing or duration of time, or any other nefarious objectives they might have in time.



    Commercial piracy costs the studios money, and no DRM solution has stopped this problem yet; there is always a way around it.



    DRM is not a consumer friendly or innovation friendly "feature." Why should you pay twice to rent a blue-ray disk for the home and watch it on your iPod? Sure there may be software bundled to allow that specific feature, but what about the next innovative device?



    Making matters worse, hardware level DRM moves ownership and control of equipment you purchase to others with whom you have no legal ties.
  • Reply 163 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    What media could you possibly be using in the conference room that would require HDCP?



    Simple example is if someone wants to play a movie they rented from iTunes from their laptop.



    Bigger concern is that there is a problem displaying a powerpoint with a laptop that has flakey HDCP included.
  • Reply 164 of 246
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by m2002brian View Post


    Many people on WINDOWS are outputting HD DVD and Blu Ray Via VGA

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=995997



    Because they found some hack around HDCP doesn't mean they are supposed to be doing it.
  • Reply 165 of 246
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


    Simple example is if someone wants to play a movie they rented from iTunes from their laptop.



    You run into this potential problem with Blu-ray also.
  • Reply 166 of 246
    ha. It's not about Apple doing this, it's about it being done at all. Most of us are mad because we were hoping Apple had the guts to say no to this repressive behavior.
  • Reply 167 of 246
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


    Simple example is if someone wants to play a movie they rented from iTunes from their laptop.



    Bigger concern is that there is a problem displaying a powerpoint with a laptop that has flakey HDCP included.



    1) So assume that Apple doesn't include HDCP in their new Macs, so HD iTS media will never happen on the iTS and netirh will Bu-ray in any form. Would you complain about the lack of HD content on the Mac?



    2) Why would their be HDCP on a PPT? I don't think it's possible unless it's authored as such as a video.
  • Reply 168 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by winterspan View Post


    Then the HD video source is supposed to be down-sampled to standard definition 480P and transmitted normally. In other words, iTunes should still play the content --- just not in high definition.



    Excellent point. It would be good if it automatically down sampled the HD. Of course.. in that case it won't be much better than the SD version of a movie!



    HOWEVER....



    How did this "John" download a HD movie to a laptop? iTunes doesn't allow that - just HD on AppleTV or HD TV shows.

    It actually sounds like he had an SD movie... which was then BLOCKED from showing on the projector. What's going on there?



    (also note that some SD rentals are higher resolution than others - better than DVD due to more horizontal pixels, but still less than 480p vertically. I wonder if the better quality movies are those that are 'blocked', or some other factor).



    edit: rustysoma on the arstechnica discussion says that the new DisplayPort Macs can rent HD movies now. He also wonders whether they can buy HD movies.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zandros View Post


    That is not required of an HDCP link. HDCP is merely encryption for the data transport stream. It is, however, as I mentioned before, a feature that can, if the studio wants to, be enabled for AACS encrypted video. And it still doesn't resize to 480p, it resizes to a maximum of 960×540. iTunes Store video is encrypted with FairPlay DRM, not the AACS encryption scheme used for Blu-ray and HD-DVD.



    Are you saying Apple doesn't have this option since the movies are not AACS encrypted? Or just that it's currently only available on some AACS content? It would be nice to have this option.



    Personally I watch rented movies through my laptop's DVI (via HDMI), and I assume my MBP's DVI can not support HDCP but I may be wrong.



    Thus I'm wondering whether

    1) Some of my SD movies will become blocked due to HDCP problems

    2) My system will continue exactly as it is now (any SD is fine, plus HD TV shows).

    3) Due to HDCP support, I'll be able to get HD movies...

    or

    4) Due to HDCP problems, I'll get HD down scaled to 540p.



    The #1 is my current worry But it sounds like only those with new MBPs are currently in that boat!
  • Reply 169 of 246
    I agree more or less with people who want to do what they want with their DVD and/or video bought on iTunes since those are provided with something which is called a "license" which restricts drastically the rights of the buyer. But since nobody reads it (OK, it does not read very well but...) and buy, it is major's right to make it apply.

    But the problem with those DRM stuffs is that it is pointless: a lot of money spent in something that is usually easily hackable: the key used for protection is anyway somewhere on your computer (not always on the hardrive) so somebody just to find where.

    It is just a burden for honest users who forget to "initalize their authorization" on iTunes or something.

    And in this case it is even more stupid since, if I understand well, I can not play a movie from iTunes on my non-DRM-ready TV in my living room, but I can on the brand new Apple display in my friend's appartement ?

    Come one steevy, I think my current MacBook pro will be my last one...
  • Reply 170 of 246
    What amazes me is some folks actually are standing by Hollywood's asinine ploy to try and restrict how you view movies and reminding everyone of the 'legality issue.'



    Let's keep this simple:

    Hollywood is filled with overpaid undereducated twits... (I pay $9 now for a movie seat?)

    They feel a threat by pirating...

    They have no way to stop it or control it... (other than silly & poorly produced pre-dvd commercials)

    They try to regulate the paying consumer...

    The paying consumer will find a loophole, and eventually stop paying...

    The overeducated, underpaid computer geeks make a simple and in most cases free work around...

    Happy Hollywood ending for the consumer, not for Hollywood.



    Until that point, all us Apple fans feel a bit of a slap in the face that Apple products are part of the Hollywood solution (don't forget folks... Mr. Jobs also works for Pixar, and makes his Pixar movies very difficult to duplicate).



    I'm confident a simple solution is probably already in the works...

    Anyone ever noticed their OS X has KLINGON as one of the native languages?

    I have faith, that any programmer who had the audacity and spare time to program the Klingon dictionary into an OS... is going to come out with an application that bumps HDCP.



    Just my $0.02.

    B
  • Reply 171 of 246
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    I'm as light as air.

    I'm not the one who invoked the Nazi slur in defense of our god-given right to steal movies.





    Don't kid yourself... you're about as light as a bag of hammers.



    When I need a language nazi (oh noooo... I done did it a'gin!), I'll let you know.





    ...
  • Reply 172 of 246
    The solution is simple.



    1. Buy non-drm content (ie: Amazon MP3s, Beatport MP3s) that works everywhere to begin with.

    2. Pirate any remaining material that is not available DRM-free, like movies.



    I'd cut a wide swathe around iTunes regardless of HDCP.
  • Reply 173 of 246
    Did anybody check the resolution of the video that generated the error?



    The reason I ask is that my Sony BluRay player will down convert 720p/1080i to all the existing standards but will not down convert 1080p. Could Apple be prepping for 1080p in addition to BluRay?
  • Reply 174 of 246
    To all you complaining about DRM and HDCP, get off this board and start writing your congressmen. DRM is a political, non-technical issue that is best argued and resolved in the political arena, i.e. congress. You need to get yourself heard and noticed by the people that can do something. Apple can't, Microsoft can't, but congress can. Get yourself noticed, write congress, volunteer to work in your representatives campaign, give money. In other words buy back that senator from Hollywood.



    P.S. HDCP is included in the Off-The-Air broadcasts. (With congress's approval.)
  • Reply 175 of 246
    In the words of Grandpa Simpson: bitch, bitch, bitch.



    I hate DRM, too, but this is just something you're all going to have to accept if you want to watch hi-def content legally. Of course, that ignores the fact that pirates get 100% of the quality with zero content protection, but I don't think the studios are going to change their minds.



    And to anyone who wanted to watch Blu-Ray movies on a Mac, this is the first step. The content-protection infrastructure, if you want to call it that, has to exist before playback software for the discs can be written.
  • Reply 176 of 246
    I spend thousands of dollars on equipment to enjoy the products these guys make, and I get that they want to protect stuff they are proud of. That they have worked their lives for. But what really bugs me is that because someone somewhere sometime may try to somehow make illegal duplicates against the wishes of these producers, that the expensive hardware and software I have bought becomes, for some odd reason, absolutely useless. And not because it is incapable of showing me this content, but because someone, somewhere, sometime, somehow may if they please make illegal copies of that work. I dunno somehow that just bothers me. Really I think its the part of me spending thousands of dollars for equipment that was supposed to just work but now it just doesn't.
  • Reply 177 of 246
    dunksdunks Posts: 1,240member
    ?Try disconnecting any displays that are not HDCP authorized?



    Sure thing, I'll just try any one of the twenty other HD displays I have lying around my house.



    God the world is so fucked.
  • Reply 178 of 246
    dunksdunks Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post


    The solution is simple.



    1. Buy non-drm content (ie: Amazon MP3s, Beatport MP3s) that works everywhere to begin with.

    2. Pirate any remaining material that is not available DRM-free, like movies.



    I'd cut a wide swathe around iTunes regardless of HDCP.



    what about outside the US?
  • Reply 179 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wobegon View Post


    ...With that said, I don't really get the point of HDCP, which requires an HDCP-enabled display. Why do they want to protect the output device? Anyone have any insight on this?



    I can't give anything like real insight because there is so much that is not logical but I can shed some light and point out some facts. This (HDCP) is an encryption protocol for an uncompressed high definition video stream. More to the point who could possibly care since we are years away from consumer equipment that could realistically capture this data? This isn't like the compromise of DVD video copy protection which allowed access to the MPEG compressed data that is present on a disc. That meant access to the 4 GB of compressed data rather than the 400 GB of corresponding uncompressed data. That was (usually) high quality standard definition video which is dwarfed by the numbers involved with HD video.



    Another somewhat relevant fact is that in 2001 a paper was published explaining that HDCP was ineffectively designed and with relatively simple effort it could be completely broken using linear algebra to compute the 40x40 matrix of numbers which acts as a 'master' key. Of course this barely matters because the data rates are so high it is of only academic interest for now (see paragraph above).



    I haven't been paying close attention but it may be worth noting that the Blu Ray copy protection for compressed HD has been broken for some time. You can find immense file on pirate bay and elsewhere but even compressed these downloads measure well over 10 GB in many cases.



    So what is the significance of the event reported in this story? Almost nothing except the new annoying incompatibilities where otherwise perfectly capable devices are broken by dim witted decisions and design. It is challenging enough to help family and friends make their purchased equipment work together as it should. They should be extending every effort to make all this new equipment work together as easily as possible rather than gumming up the works with yet another pointless new incompatibility. Shame on you Apple for contributing to this farce.
  • Reply 180 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ohanadivers View Post


    ...

    Happy Hollywood ending for the consumer, not for Hollywood.



    Until that point, all us Apple fans feel a bit of a slap in the face that Apple products are part of the Hollywood solution (don't forget folks... Mr. Jobs also works for Pixar, and makes his Pixar movies very difficult to duplicate).

    ...

    B



    First, I did enjoy your little Hollywood story. However to say Mr. Jobs works for Pixar is rather inaccurate. As CEO he was an employee of Pixar but he also owns a major chunk of it*. It became the behemoth it is under his guidance and he first joined the billionaires club as a result of his successful work there rather than at Apple. Also there is nothing at all difficult about duplicating Pixar movies delivered on DVD or Blu-Ray. They're just like any other discs. That is all old news. This story isn't really about copyright infringement. The barn door is wide open elsewhere already and HDCP has been effectively defeated since 2001. The story is that people who purchased equipment now get to watch their purchases being trashed by arrogant, pointless decisions of the consumer electronics and entertainment industries.



    * The deal between Disney and Pixar changes many of the details but not the essentials: Jobs is more a part of "Hollywood" than any other high tech executive.
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