the iPhone will look much like it does now, but it will fold open to show-of a screen that is twice as large as the one on the cover (like it has now) - so
2 screens, the one on the cover, and the new one, that is twice as big, that you get to use, once you open the iPhone to it's new full size.
So it's a small enough phone, and a MUCH larger screen as needed, once you open it.
The inside screen will feature (if you set it up that way) - a larger keyboard for typing, or a larger screen for viewing what ever in hell you want, need to, choose to view.
So instead of opening to a keypad - it will open to a bigger screen
the iPhone will look much like it does now, but it will fold open to show-of a screen that is twice as large as the one on the cover (like it has now) - so
With the rapid advancement in OLED and the substrates they are built on such a device may very well be coming soon. It is all a question of how fast reliable screens and mass production can be had.
As a side note I'm mixed on a cover screen. The problem is space and reliability. Personally seeing a folder from Apple would be nice but I don't want it thick and bulky.
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2 screens, the one on the cover, and the new one, that is twice as big, that you get to use, once you open the iPhone to it's new full size.
Hopefully it opens up to a much wider (larger) screen.
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So it's a small enough phone, and a MUCH larger screen as needed, once you open it.
The inside screen will feature (if you set it up that way) - a larger keyboard for typing, or a larger screen for viewing what ever in hell you want, need to, choose to view.
So instead of opening to a keypad - it will open to a bigger screen
Skip
This is not impossible at all. I just don't want to see a nasty fat device. Folded it ideally would be thinner than todays iPhone.
When are we going to see an iphone with a better camera on board?
Of course we need to know what you mean by better. More mega pixels mean nothing if the other parameters fall down. For some of us a better camera means more than pixels anyway.
By this I mean many of us would like to see things like focusing, zoom and exposure control. A real shutter release button would do wonders too. In fact the ability to control exposure manually an a mechanical switch for "shutter release" would do wonders for the iPhone. The shutter release button could be implemented similar to the power switch. From the standpoint of human factors the touch screen shutter release sucks.
It isn't like I would like more megapixels but honestly pixels aren't impacting the quality as much as some other short comings with the camera. So what do you want to see?
So your saying even with focusing, zoom and exposure control on the next iphone if you had a straight choice between 2mp or 5 mp you would still go for 2? No need to be a clever cloggs we all know pixels are not everything but jesus the other phones are on 8mp. Who cares if its not that good at least put some extra megapixels in there. It's a phone not a camera so it only supposed to last a year or 2 max hence why no camera phones feature hardware that can actually stand up to camera. So move your ass Apple.
So your saying even with focusing, zoom and exposure control on the next iphone if you had a straight choice between 2mp or 5 mp you would still go for 2?
First with cameras it is never a straight choice. Over the years I've owned many SLR, twin lens reflex and digital; they all have their place and lenses do have significant impact on the image.
As to a straight up choice that really depends on the results each would render. That of course is highly dependant on how they are used. Nikon has clearly demonstrated that it isn't all about megapixels, a sensor can be optimized for a number of uses; as such it is up to the user to choose the right one for his needs. So what I'm saying is that there is more to the equation than pixel count.
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No need to be a clever cloggs we all know pixels are not everything but jesus the other phones are on 8mp.
Again who cares? IPhone is Apples first cell phone you can't expect them to master the art on the first try.
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Who cares if its not that good at least put some extra megapixels in there.
The above is the definition of stupidity in my mind. If Apple can't improve upon what they have, in the cameras overall quality of results then they need to stick with what they got for now.
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It's a phone not a camera so it only supposed to last a year or 2 max hence why no camera phones feature hardware that can actually stand up to camera. So move your ass Apple.
More stupidity. First the thought or attitude that a cell phone should be replaced every year or two is garbage. That is just churn for the cellular providers and environmental madness.
Apple will have far better cameras in future devices, that you can count on. I know that based on the trades I read. There is a lot to choose from, as such Apple has slot of work ahead of them. It will be interesting to see if they can corner some of this new tech. Then you won't be able to whine anymore.
In future please have more manners before throwing names around.
At the end of the day I guess it's a European thing. You can argue all you want about nikon or slrs till you are blue in the face but in Europe we have higher expectations of camera on phones. It's not our fault not many to your shores. Even still none of them can truley match up to a digi cam but they are still popular and still sell well.
As for your notion on the lifetime of a phone well everyone I know only uses their phone for the duration of their contract and then upgrades the next year or in 18 months. That's pretty normal here tbh.
Going back to cameras though no one is saying apple have to perfect imaging before venturing past 2mp. Their last effort at imaging was rubbish to say the least. Are you then going to say Bluetooth hasn't been perfected hence no support for file transfer? I know this is an apple forum but please pull your head out of that apple shaped ass for 1 moment.
iPhone is great and I like mine but it needs some serious hardware upgrades for it's sucessor.
The current form factor/size of the iPhone is perfect. The size that the original poster wants is about the size of my Newton (MP200) and I never had a pocket that was big enough for it. I don't think a phone that requires a backpack or a belt clip will sell very well.
I agree that the camera is shite. I didn't know it's only 2 MP. It's useless in low light, the pictures are grainy, there is no zoom. My old Sony Ericsson Communicam for my T68i even had zoom.
Everything else about the iPhone is brilliant. The camera seriously needs improvement. It should also be capable of video as well as still pictures.
Yeah i wonder why Apple chose to leave out video? Even mid range phones can shoot video in 720 by 480. It's almost embarrasing that Apple chose to leave out all these features. They can hide behind the nice interface and flashy UI for now but soon people will want more.
In future please have more manners before throwing names around.
Throwing names around? Please explain that one.
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At the end of the day I guess it's a European thing. You can argue all you want about nikon or slrs till you are blue in the face but in Europe we have higher expectations of camera on phones. It's not our fault not many to your shores. Even still none of them can truley match up to a digi cam but they are still popular and still sell well.
See I take the above as a sign of a silliness to accept crap for convience. I'm simply not willing to do that. It is not like I wouldn't want a better camera it is just that I want to see more improvements than the commonly pushed pixel counts. High pixel counts mean nothing if low light capability goes out the window for example. Further yes I would prefer a much better lens system over higher pixels because a quality zoom and focus will do more for you and your images.
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As for your notion on the lifetime of a phone well everyone I know only uses their phone for the duration of their contract and then upgrades the next year or in 18 months. That's pretty normal here tbh.
It is likely practiced here to some extent to but it is simply bad for the environment. What really disturbs me about Europe in this case is that Europeans get all worked up about global warming, as if it is based on good science, but go about the business of trashing the planet otherwise. It is really amazing that people are so willing to get behind a cause that humanity has little control over yet blissfully ignore things that they can control.
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Going back to cameras though no one is saying apple have to perfect imaging before venturing past 2mp. Their last effort at imaging was rubbish to say the least.
There is no such thing as perfection in optics I work in that industry so have personal experience here. What I'm saying is that it is simply ignorant to demand more megapixels and to associate it with the only measure of camera quality. I don't really believe anybody is completely happy with the current camera, the difference is we want it to improve in many ways. Frankly a high megapixel camera that can't focus or looses low level light capability is not an improvement in my mind.
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Are you then going to say Bluetooth hasn't been perfected hence no support for file transfer? I know this is an apple forum but please pull your head out of that apple shaped ass for 1 moment.
If you have followed any of my posts you would have known that I'm very vocal about Apples lack of support for various BluTooth profiles. This however is an entirely different issue than the camera one. Much of the problems associated with BluTooth are software and seem to be purposfully limited by Apple.
Certainly the camera has it's issues with software as little is offered up with respect to software features. The camera also has hardware limitations that can't be impacted until the hardware is upgraded. It really isn't an Apples to Apples comparison.
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iPhone is great and I like mine but it needs some serious hardware upgrades for it's sucessor.
Exactly! Especially the serious part which we seem to define in different ways.
When it comes to the camera I want more than what you seem to be asking for. By that I mean measurable improvements across the board not just more pixels.
Yeah i wonder why Apple chose to leave out video? Even mid range phones can shoot video in 720 by 480. It's almost embarrasing that Apple chose to leave out all these features. They can hide behind the nice interface and flashy UI for now but soon people will want more.
I'm still of the opinion that Apple looks at IPhone as product one of a series of products. This generation is built the way it is simply because they expect to continually drop the price and to make room for upscale models. The current 3G could be selling for less than a $100 dollars soon as a pay as you go device.
As to new devices coming down the pipe it is a given that we will see improvements. As you highlight above that means different things to different people. Video is important to some. In anyevent across the board improvements mean just that, the iPhone camera needs many enhancements.
Omw thing that may need to be highlighted is the issue of software. Part of the problem with features is that IPhone OS barely meant delivery schedule. It is likely that they never had the time to address software limitations. The state of the SDK over the last few months highlights this.
This is not to imply that we will see a more feature complete camera app from Apple anytime soon. I simply don't know what will crop up with respect to Apple software. What I'm saying is that it appears that bugs are under control in the SDK and this should free up Apple with respect to features and product development. The reality is that hardware isn't useful without software and IPhone OS had a lot of issues there.
There are some really nice video apps for the iPhone but they all require a good O jailbreak. So the iPhone is capable of shooting good video along with audio, but Apple chose not to, I can't seem to understand why! Especially when the jailbroken app works so well.
The current form factor/size of the iPhone is perfect. The size that the original poster wants is about the size of my Newton (MP200) and I never had a pocket that was big enough for it. I don't think a phone that requires a backpack or a belt clip will sell very well.
Nope a belt clip or backpack won't do at all. In my case I don't want to see a blow out to that size but I do want a larger screen. That doesn't automatically imply a massivly larger device either. As to the message pad that is already eclipsed by the power of IPhone. A newer iPhone with a larger screen will only make that power spread wider.
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I agree that the camera is shite. I didn't know it's only 2 MP. It's useless in low light, the pictures are grainy, there is no zoom. My old Sony Ericsson Communicam for my T68i even had zoom.
Right on all accounts which is why I'm interested in seeing across the board improvements. It is also why you have to be careful about demands for super high pixel counts. If higher pixel counts lead to even worst low light capability or grainier pics it isn't the improvement I want to see. The problem is that higher pixel counts don't always lead to what you want.
Even in the point and shoot world the move to high pixel counts brought with it significant regressions with respect to low level light capability. There is nothing wrong with a camera that needs full sun light to produce acceptable images - if you can live with the limitation. I find it to limiting.
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Everything else about the iPhone is brilliant. The camera seriously needs improvement. It should also be capable of video as well as still pictures.
Yep it needs real improvements. It needs to deliver those improvements across the board not just In pixel counts. Even something as simple as a shutter release button would do wonders as a hardware improvement.
We also can't leave out software as there is much need for improvement there. For example exposure control sucks.
There are some really nice video apps for the iPhone but they all require a good O jailbreak. So the iPhone is capable of shooting good video along with audio, but Apple chose not to, I can't seem to understand why! Especially when the jailbroken app works so well.
Honestly I think the problem was that the development adventure was a bigger trip than Apple expected. There have been plenty of signs that the software development team suffered from either a lack of resources or skills over iPhone development time line.
More recently the SDK just went to version 2.2 along with the OS. To many developers this appears to be the first really stable version of IPhone OS. Certainly from the users standpoint it is. I'm not sure if or what the timeline was for iPhone development but it took a very long time to get to a version two that was acceptable. I see the lack of iPhone features in general as a sign that Apple did not and still does not have all the resources they need applied to the product line.
It is a good machine but it is taking it's time getting there.
Of course we need to know what you mean by better. More mega pixels mean nothing if the other parameters fall down. For some of us a better camera means more than pixels anyway.
By this I mean many of us would like to see things like focusing, zoom and exposure control. A real shutter release button would do wonders too. In fact the ability to control exposure manually an a mechanical switch for "shutter release" would do wonders for the iPhone. The shutter release button could be implemented similar to the power switch. From the standpoint of human factors the touch screen shutter release sucks.
It isn't like I would like more megapixels but honestly pixels aren't impacting the quality as much as some other short comings with the camera. So what do you want to see?
I actually think trying to make the iPhone more camera like is a mistake. They could add a utility button on the side that could act as a "shutter release" button or an audio recorder start/stop button, or any number of things that apps could use, but in many ways that's a mistake. I could see Apple adding it, but it could be a mistake in thinking or direction. Another example could be to change the ringer on/off switch to a button that could double as a shutter release button and the volume rocker could also double as a zooming feature. Halfway elegant.
This is shoehorning a solution to solve a perceived problem of the iPhone not having the ergonomics of a camera. That's dangerous thinking and could lead to an unfruitful feature war with competitors. Apple simply won't win on feature-list type things, and they know that it isn't profitable anyways. No, keep to your guns and keep trying to solve peoples problems or provide convenience in new and pleasurable ways. The Apple game isn't featuritis, it's to provide convenience and to make things fun to use and easy to use.
For the camera, Apple should make use of its strengths, and in this case, it is the touchscreen and multi-touch. I'm fairly certain that all people (90+%) want to do is take their camera out, point, shoot, and voila, a beautiful picture is taken. Never mind that 99.9% of the pictures taken is nothing but crap as no one understands, or cares to understand, what it takes to take a good picture. Photography is too complex for people who don't really have the time or care for it, and a traditional phone UI shouldn't used. So, Apple should stick to point-n-shoot as much as possible. All improvements must be invisible to the user, or of such natural usage that it really makes it possible to use the feature.
Image stabilization is a low hanging fruit. If anything, all cell phones cameras should have it as they have horrible camera ergonomics. It's also invisible to the user. More megapixels is fine as long as it is accompanied with less noise which might not be a solvable problem with the iPhone's <0.5" thickness, but Apple hasn't reached it with 2 MP. It's more like 5 to 6 MP where noise becomes uncontrollable at the lens/sensor sizes in cell phones. Manual focus, exposure times, scenery settings, any kind of image statistics, image size settings, ISO settings, absolutely not. These features are indeed on other cell phone cameras trying to mimic a regular camera, and I simply cringe at the thought.
Autofocus is interesting. Apple could design a unique interface with autofocus by making the autofocus box finger drag-able. It also needs to be lightning quick. Near instantaneous quick. I can very easily see a user dragging the autofocus box around the screen and the image is changing focus in realtime. Also, zooming can be interesting too. A user can zoom be using a pinch gesture. Apple can add rubber-banding to indicate limits of the zoom. Flash I can see being added as that is fairly automatic.
The shutter release button is fine as it is. For autofocus, press-n-hold. For shuttle release, lift the finger. Also, things like pre-capture is interesting to me. The capacitance screen senses your finger before it actually touches the screen. Make use of the feature. Start capturing pictures as the finger is reaching for the button, then capture as the finger is lifting. If the user slides the finger off the button, the pre-capture images are disposed. Capture images at 10 frames/second or something.
This is a whole lot of work for a lower priority function on the iPhone, but it would be a kind of reinvention of a camera. I don't think Apple will do it much precisely because it is a lower priority for them.
See I take the above as a sign of a silliness to accept crap for convience. I'm simply not willing to do that. It is not like I wouldn't want a better camera it is just that I want to see more improvements than the commonly pushed pixel counts. High pixel counts mean nothing if low light capability goes out the window for example. Further yes I would prefer a much better lens system over higher pixels because a quality zoom and focus will do more for you and your images.
You can call it crap and compared to digital cameras they are crap but if that is crap then how best should iphones camera be described?
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Originally Posted by wizard69
It is likely practiced here to some extent to but it is simply bad for the environment. What really disturbs me about Europe in this case is that Europeans get all worked up about global warming, as if it is based on good science, but go about the business of trashing the planet otherwise. It is really amazing that people are so willing to get behind a cause that humanity has little control over yet blissfully ignore things that they can control.
It's not just 'practised'. It is the norm. If phone companies made phones that good including optics then how would they get you to go out and buy their sucessor in a year or 2 down the line.
And i'm sure I speak for many others when I say honestly I couldn't give a shit about the environment. I think most countries are past the point of no return anyway.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
There is no such thing as perfection in optics I work in that industry so have personal experience here. What I'm saying is that it is simply ignorant to demand more megapixels and to associate it with the only measure of camera quality. I don't really believe anybody is completely happy with the current camera, the difference is we want it to improve in many ways. Frankly a high megapixel camera that can't focus or looses low level light capability is not an improvement in my mind.
Ah ok so now it makes sense because you work in that industry. Well to be honest camera phones have taken off pretty well here as in Asia so I think that kind of puts to rest any notion of most people thinking along the same lines as you.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
When it comes to the camera I want more than what you seem to be asking for. By that I mean measurable improvements across the board not just more pixels.
Dave
Me also.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
The current 3G could be selling for less than a $100 dollars soon as a pay as you go device.
I think that might be a step down too far considering over here the 8GB model is £350 on PAYG. As with all technology though, the longer that goes by the prices do eventually come down.
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Originally Posted by THT
This is a whole lot of work for a lower priority function on the iPhone, but it would be a kind of reinvention of a camera. I don't think Apple will do it much precisely because it is a lower priority for them.
I don't understand why that would be though. It's plain obvious that people DO like having cameras on their phones. We like to take spontaneous pics and vids when we are out and about and will not always have a digi cam or SLR with us for that moment. That's the whole essense of a camera phone. Apple scored well because of iphones UI and that's great but I know many iphone owners who own an iphone as well as another phone which they use for pics and vids. I know they could just as easily carry a digi cam in that case but again it only goes to prove that IF Apple addressed the imaging side of things they could allow more people to enjoy some iphone goodness!
No Jams, it is just a wish, except for depth I just multiplied the current dimensions by 1.5, I feel that we will probably not see a new iphone or even an update of the current one anytime soon. The rumor mill seems to only indicate a mac mini and imac refresh for macworld. I am disappointed though because my alltel contract ends January 24th and so I will be buying an iphone regardless.
The biggest draw back is I live in an edge zone and my work is an edge zone too, Verizon rules in Upstate South Carolina and I don't think att will be expanding 3g service here anytime soon.
On the other hand, if Apple could design a phone strong enough so that it only has 0.1" bezels on the side (unibody aluminum design?), they could place a 4" screen on the currently iPhone planform, and I presume have the same ~0.5" thickness. Add in a 720x480 res screen, and voila, they have the next-gen iPhone.
Well, the HTC Touch HD has a 3.8" display with a 800x480 resolution and is the same size as the iPhone and is already available since November 08 in Europe. The 0.3" doesn't sound like a lot but combined with the 2.5x resolution it's a big improvement over the iPhone's display (size and resolution wise). It's Windows Mobile but the hardware is pretty impressive
Well, the HTC Touch HD has a 3.8" display with a 800x480 resolution and is the same size as the iPhone and is already available since November 08 in Europe. The 0.3" doesn't sound like a lot but combined with the 2.5x resolution it's a big improvement over the iPhone's display (size and resolution wise). It's Windows Mobile but the hardware is pretty impressive
So a bigger screen (3.8" - 4") and higher resolution without an overall increase in size should be no problem for a new iPhone in Mid 2009.
It really depends on how much of a headache Apple's software developers, and 3rd party developers, want to have. By going to a taller aspect ratio screen, every single application has to be redone, or requalified, to fit the new aspect ratio screen. If they want to, they could put a 4.5" 2:1 960x480 screen in there with 0.2" bezels on all sides, but I'm imagining that's a pretty big headache for basically all of the software guys. Not that I wouldn't want such a device, nay, I would love such a device.
By maintaining the same aspect ratio, it minimizes the amount of work all around. Most apps using all Cocoa touch graphics and such will work. Anything with custom graphics (which is basically all of the good apps) will have to be redone a bit. Going to a different aspect ratio screen, is another big step, and I imagine some apps have to be redesigned.
Comments
the iPhone will look much like it does now, but it will fold open to show-of a screen that is twice as large as the one on the cover (like it has now) - so
2 screens, the one on the cover, and the new one, that is twice as big, that you get to use, once you open the iPhone to it's new full size.
So it's a small enough phone, and a MUCH larger screen as needed, once you open it.
The inside screen will feature (if you set it up that way) - a larger keyboard for typing, or a larger screen for viewing what ever in hell you want, need to, choose to view.
So instead of opening to a keypad - it will open to a bigger screen
Skip
Now or very soon ?
the iPhone will look much like it does now, but it will fold open to show-of a screen that is twice as large as the one on the cover (like it has now) - so
With the rapid advancement in OLED and the substrates they are built on such a device may very well be coming soon. It is all a question of how fast reliable screens and mass production can be had.
As a side note I'm mixed on a cover screen. The problem is space and reliability. Personally seeing a folder from Apple would be nice but I don't want it thick and bulky.
2 screens, the one on the cover, and the new one, that is twice as big, that you get to use, once you open the iPhone to it's new full size.
Hopefully it opens up to a much wider (larger) screen.
So it's a small enough phone, and a MUCH larger screen as needed, once you open it.
The inside screen will feature (if you set it up that way) - a larger keyboard for typing, or a larger screen for viewing what ever in hell you want, need to, choose to view.
So instead of opening to a keypad - it will open to a bigger screen
Skip
This is not impossible at all. I just don't want to see a nasty fat device. Folded it ideally would be thinner than todays iPhone.
When are we going to see an iphone with a better camera on board?
Of course we need to know what you mean by better. More mega pixels mean nothing if the other parameters fall down. For some of us a better camera means more than pixels anyway.
By this I mean many of us would like to see things like focusing, zoom and exposure control. A real shutter release button would do wonders too. In fact the ability to control exposure manually an a mechanical switch for "shutter release" would do wonders for the iPhone. The shutter release button could be implemented similar to the power switch. From the standpoint of human factors the touch screen shutter release sucks.
It isn't like I would like more megapixels but honestly pixels aren't impacting the quality as much as some other short comings with the camera. So what do you want to see?
Dave
So your saying even with focusing, zoom and exposure control on the next iphone if you had a straight choice between 2mp or 5 mp you would still go for 2?
First with cameras it is never a straight choice. Over the years I've owned many SLR, twin lens reflex and digital; they all have their place and lenses do have significant impact on the image.
As to a straight up choice that really depends on the results each would render. That of course is highly dependant on how they are used. Nikon has clearly demonstrated that it isn't all about megapixels, a sensor can be optimized for a number of uses; as such it is up to the user to choose the right one for his needs. So what I'm saying is that there is more to the equation than pixel count.
No need to be a clever cloggs we all know pixels are not everything but jesus the other phones are on 8mp.
Again who cares? IPhone is Apples first cell phone you can't expect them to master the art on the first try.
Who cares if its not that good at least put some extra megapixels in there.
The above is the definition of stupidity in my mind. If Apple can't improve upon what they have, in the cameras overall quality of results then they need to stick with what they got for now.
It's a phone not a camera so it only supposed to last a year or 2 max hence why no camera phones feature hardware that can actually stand up to camera. So move your ass Apple.
More stupidity. First the thought or attitude that a cell phone should be replaced every year or two is garbage. That is just churn for the cellular providers and environmental madness.
Apple will have far better cameras in future devices, that you can count on. I know that based on the trades I read. There is a lot to choose from, as such Apple has slot of work ahead of them. It will be interesting to see if they can corner some of this new tech. Then you won't be able to whine anymore.
Dave
At the end of the day I guess it's a European thing. You can argue all you want about nikon or slrs till you are blue in the face but in Europe we have higher expectations of camera on phones. It's not our fault not many to your shores. Even still none of them can truley match up to a digi cam but they are still popular and still sell well.
As for your notion on the lifetime of a phone well everyone I know only uses their phone for the duration of their contract and then upgrades the next year or in 18 months. That's pretty normal here tbh.
Going back to cameras though no one is saying apple have to perfect imaging before venturing past 2mp. Their last effort at imaging was rubbish to say the least. Are you then going to say Bluetooth hasn't been perfected hence no support for file transfer? I know this is an apple forum but please pull your head out of that apple shaped ass for 1 moment.
iPhone is great and I like mine but it needs some serious hardware upgrades for it's sucessor.
I agree that the camera is shite. I didn't know it's only 2 MP. It's useless in low light, the pictures are grainy, there is no zoom. My old Sony Ericsson Communicam for my T68i even had zoom.
Everything else about the iPhone is brilliant. The camera seriously needs improvement. It should also be capable of video as well as still pictures.
In future please have more manners before throwing names around.
Throwing names around? Please explain that one.
At the end of the day I guess it's a European thing. You can argue all you want about nikon or slrs till you are blue in the face but in Europe we have higher expectations of camera on phones. It's not our fault not many to your shores. Even still none of them can truley match up to a digi cam but they are still popular and still sell well.
See I take the above as a sign of a silliness to accept crap for convience. I'm simply not willing to do that. It is not like I wouldn't want a better camera it is just that I want to see more improvements than the commonly pushed pixel counts. High pixel counts mean nothing if low light capability goes out the window for example. Further yes I would prefer a much better lens system over higher pixels because a quality zoom and focus will do more for you and your images.
As for your notion on the lifetime of a phone well everyone I know only uses their phone for the duration of their contract and then upgrades the next year or in 18 months. That's pretty normal here tbh.
It is likely practiced here to some extent to but it is simply bad for the environment. What really disturbs me about Europe in this case is that Europeans get all worked up about global warming, as if it is based on good science, but go about the business of trashing the planet otherwise. It is really amazing that people are so willing to get behind a cause that humanity has little control over yet blissfully ignore things that they can control.
Going back to cameras though no one is saying apple have to perfect imaging before venturing past 2mp. Their last effort at imaging was rubbish to say the least.
There is no such thing as perfection in optics I work in that industry so have personal experience here. What I'm saying is that it is simply ignorant to demand more megapixels and to associate it with the only measure of camera quality. I don't really believe anybody is completely happy with the current camera, the difference is we want it to improve in many ways. Frankly a high megapixel camera that can't focus or looses low level light capability is not an improvement in my mind.
Are you then going to say Bluetooth hasn't been perfected hence no support for file transfer? I know this is an apple forum but please pull your head out of that apple shaped ass for 1 moment.
If you have followed any of my posts you would have known that I'm very vocal about Apples lack of support for various BluTooth profiles. This however is an entirely different issue than the camera one. Much of the problems associated with BluTooth are software and seem to be purposfully limited by Apple.
Certainly the camera has it's issues with software as little is offered up with respect to software features. The camera also has hardware limitations that can't be impacted until the hardware is upgraded. It really isn't an Apples to Apples comparison.
iPhone is great and I like mine but it needs some serious hardware upgrades for it's sucessor.
Exactly! Especially the serious part which we seem to define in different ways.
When it comes to the camera I want more than what you seem to be asking for. By that I mean measurable improvements across the board not just more pixels.
Dave
Yeah i wonder why Apple chose to leave out video? Even mid range phones can shoot video in 720 by 480. It's almost embarrasing that Apple chose to leave out all these features. They can hide behind the nice interface and flashy UI for now but soon people will want more.
I'm still of the opinion that Apple looks at IPhone as product one of a series of products. This generation is built the way it is simply because they expect to continually drop the price and to make room for upscale models. The current 3G could be selling for less than a $100 dollars soon as a pay as you go device.
As to new devices coming down the pipe it is a given that we will see improvements. As you highlight above that means different things to different people. Video is important to some. In anyevent across the board improvements mean just that, the iPhone camera needs many enhancements.
Omw thing that may need to be highlighted is the issue of software. Part of the problem with features is that IPhone OS barely meant delivery schedule. It is likely that they never had the time to address software limitations. The state of the SDK over the last few months highlights this.
This is not to imply that we will see a more feature complete camera app from Apple anytime soon. I simply don't know what will crop up with respect to Apple software. What I'm saying is that it appears that bugs are under control in the SDK and this should free up Apple with respect to features and product development. The reality is that hardware isn't useful without software and IPhone OS had a lot of issues there.
Dave
The current form factor/size of the iPhone is perfect. The size that the original poster wants is about the size of my Newton (MP200) and I never had a pocket that was big enough for it. I don't think a phone that requires a backpack or a belt clip will sell very well.
Nope a belt clip or backpack won't do at all. In my case I don't want to see a blow out to that size but I do want a larger screen. That doesn't automatically imply a massivly larger device either. As to the message pad that is already eclipsed by the power of IPhone. A newer iPhone with a larger screen will only make that power spread wider.
I agree that the camera is shite. I didn't know it's only 2 MP. It's useless in low light, the pictures are grainy, there is no zoom. My old Sony Ericsson Communicam for my T68i even had zoom.
Right on all accounts which is why I'm interested in seeing across the board improvements. It is also why you have to be careful about demands for super high pixel counts. If higher pixel counts lead to even worst low light capability or grainier pics it isn't the improvement I want to see. The problem is that higher pixel counts don't always lead to what you want.
Even in the point and shoot world the move to high pixel counts brought with it significant regressions with respect to low level light capability. There is nothing wrong with a camera that needs full sun light to produce acceptable images - if you can live with the limitation. I find it to limiting.
Everything else about the iPhone is brilliant. The camera seriously needs improvement. It should also be capable of video as well as still pictures.
Yep it needs real improvements. It needs to deliver those improvements across the board not just In pixel counts. Even something as simple as a shutter release button would do wonders as a hardware improvement.
We also can't leave out software as there is much need for improvement there. For example exposure control sucks.
Dave
There are some really nice video apps for the iPhone but they all require a good O jailbreak. So the iPhone is capable of shooting good video along with audio, but Apple chose not to, I can't seem to understand why! Especially when the jailbroken app works so well.
Honestly I think the problem was that the development adventure was a bigger trip than Apple expected. There have been plenty of signs that the software development team suffered from either a lack of resources or skills over iPhone development time line.
More recently the SDK just went to version 2.2 along with the OS. To many developers this appears to be the first really stable version of IPhone OS. Certainly from the users standpoint it is. I'm not sure if or what the timeline was for iPhone development but it took a very long time to get to a version two that was acceptable. I see the lack of iPhone features in general as a sign that Apple did not and still does not have all the resources they need applied to the product line.
It is a good machine but it is taking it's time getting there.
Dave
Of course we need to know what you mean by better. More mega pixels mean nothing if the other parameters fall down. For some of us a better camera means more than pixels anyway.
By this I mean many of us would like to see things like focusing, zoom and exposure control. A real shutter release button would do wonders too. In fact the ability to control exposure manually an a mechanical switch for "shutter release" would do wonders for the iPhone. The shutter release button could be implemented similar to the power switch. From the standpoint of human factors the touch screen shutter release sucks.
It isn't like I would like more megapixels but honestly pixels aren't impacting the quality as much as some other short comings with the camera. So what do you want to see?
I actually think trying to make the iPhone more camera like is a mistake. They could add a utility button on the side that could act as a "shutter release" button or an audio recorder start/stop button, or any number of things that apps could use, but in many ways that's a mistake. I could see Apple adding it, but it could be a mistake in thinking or direction. Another example could be to change the ringer on/off switch to a button that could double as a shutter release button and the volume rocker could also double as a zooming feature. Halfway elegant.
This is shoehorning a solution to solve a perceived problem of the iPhone not having the ergonomics of a camera. That's dangerous thinking and could lead to an unfruitful feature war with competitors. Apple simply won't win on feature-list type things, and they know that it isn't profitable anyways. No, keep to your guns and keep trying to solve peoples problems or provide convenience in new and pleasurable ways. The Apple game isn't featuritis, it's to provide convenience and to make things fun to use and easy to use.
For the camera, Apple should make use of its strengths, and in this case, it is the touchscreen and multi-touch. I'm fairly certain that all people (90+%) want to do is take their camera out, point, shoot, and voila, a beautiful picture is taken. Never mind that 99.9% of the pictures taken is nothing but crap as no one understands, or cares to understand, what it takes to take a good picture. Photography is too complex for people who don't really have the time or care for it, and a traditional phone UI shouldn't used. So, Apple should stick to point-n-shoot as much as possible. All improvements must be invisible to the user, or of such natural usage that it really makes it possible to use the feature.
Image stabilization is a low hanging fruit. If anything, all cell phones cameras should have it as they have horrible camera ergonomics. It's also invisible to the user. More megapixels is fine as long as it is accompanied with less noise which might not be a solvable problem with the iPhone's <0.5" thickness, but Apple hasn't reached it with 2 MP. It's more like 5 to 6 MP where noise becomes uncontrollable at the lens/sensor sizes in cell phones. Manual focus, exposure times, scenery settings, any kind of image statistics, image size settings, ISO settings, absolutely not. These features are indeed on other cell phone cameras trying to mimic a regular camera, and I simply cringe at the thought.
Autofocus is interesting. Apple could design a unique interface with autofocus by making the autofocus box finger drag-able. It also needs to be lightning quick. Near instantaneous quick. I can very easily see a user dragging the autofocus box around the screen and the image is changing focus in realtime. Also, zooming can be interesting too. A user can zoom be using a pinch gesture. Apple can add rubber-banding to indicate limits of the zoom. Flash I can see being added as that is fairly automatic.
The shutter release button is fine as it is. For autofocus, press-n-hold. For shuttle release, lift the finger. Also, things like pre-capture is interesting to me. The capacitance screen senses your finger before it actually touches the screen. Make use of the feature. Start capturing pictures as the finger is reaching for the button, then capture as the finger is lifting. If the user slides the finger off the button, the pre-capture images are disposed. Capture images at 10 frames/second or something.
This is a whole lot of work for a lower priority function on the iPhone, but it would be a kind of reinvention of a camera. I don't think Apple will do it much precisely because it is a lower priority for them.
See I take the above as a sign of a silliness to accept crap for convience. I'm simply not willing to do that. It is not like I wouldn't want a better camera it is just that I want to see more improvements than the commonly pushed pixel counts. High pixel counts mean nothing if low light capability goes out the window for example. Further yes I would prefer a much better lens system over higher pixels because a quality zoom and focus will do more for you and your images.
You can call it crap and compared to digital cameras they are crap but if that is crap then how best should iphones camera be described?
It is likely practiced here to some extent to but it is simply bad for the environment. What really disturbs me about Europe in this case is that Europeans get all worked up about global warming, as if it is based on good science, but go about the business of trashing the planet otherwise. It is really amazing that people are so willing to get behind a cause that humanity has little control over yet blissfully ignore things that they can control.
It's not just 'practised'. It is the norm. If phone companies made phones that good including optics then how would they get you to go out and buy their sucessor in a year or 2 down the line.
And i'm sure I speak for many others when I say honestly I couldn't give a shit about the environment. I think most countries are past the point of no return anyway.
There is no such thing as perfection in optics I work in that industry so have personal experience here. What I'm saying is that it is simply ignorant to demand more megapixels and to associate it with the only measure of camera quality. I don't really believe anybody is completely happy with the current camera, the difference is we want it to improve in many ways. Frankly a high megapixel camera that can't focus or looses low level light capability is not an improvement in my mind.
Ah ok so now it makes sense because you work in that industry. Well to be honest camera phones have taken off pretty well here as in Asia so I think that kind of puts to rest any notion of most people thinking along the same lines as you.
When it comes to the camera I want more than what you seem to be asking for. By that I mean measurable improvements across the board not just more pixels.
Dave
Me also.
The current 3G could be selling for less than a $100 dollars soon as a pay as you go device.
I think that might be a step down too far considering over here the 8GB model is £350 on PAYG. As with all technology though, the longer that goes by the prices do eventually come down.
This is a whole lot of work for a lower priority function on the iPhone, but it would be a kind of reinvention of a camera. I don't think Apple will do it much precisely because it is a lower priority for them.
I don't understand why that would be though. It's plain obvious that people DO like having cameras on their phones. We like to take spontaneous pics and vids when we are out and about and will not always have a digi cam or SLR with us for that moment. That's the whole essense of a camera phone. Apple scored well because of iphones UI and that's great but I know many iphone owners who own an iphone as well as another phone which they use for pics and vids. I know they could just as easily carry a digi cam in that case but again it only goes to prove that IF Apple addressed the imaging side of things they could allow more people to enjoy some iphone goodness!
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The biggest draw back is I live in an edge zone and my work is an edge zone too, Verizon rules in Upstate South Carolina and I don't think att will be expanding 3g service here anytime soon.
On the other hand, if Apple could design a phone strong enough so that it only has 0.1" bezels on the side (unibody aluminum design?), they could place a 4" screen on the currently iPhone planform, and I presume have the same ~0.5" thickness. Add in a 720x480 res screen, and voila, they have the next-gen iPhone.
Well, the HTC Touch HD has a 3.8" display with a 800x480 resolution and is the same size as the iPhone and is already available since November 08 in Europe. The 0.3" doesn't sound like a lot but combined with the 2.5x resolution it's a big improvement over the iPhone's display (size and resolution wise). It's Windows Mobile but the hardware is pretty impressive
http://i1.phonearena.com/showimage.p...=name&id=43585
So a bigger screen (3.8" - 4") and higher resolution without an overall increase in size should be no problem for a new iPhone in Mid 2009.
Well, the HTC Touch HD has a 3.8" display with a 800x480 resolution and is the same size as the iPhone and is already available since November 08 in Europe. The 0.3" doesn't sound like a lot but combined with the 2.5x resolution it's a big improvement over the iPhone's display (size and resolution wise). It's Windows Mobile but the hardware is pretty impressive
http://i1.phonearena.com/showimage.p...=name&id=43585
So a bigger screen (3.8" - 4") and higher resolution without an overall increase in size should be no problem for a new iPhone in Mid 2009.
It really depends on how much of a headache Apple's software developers, and 3rd party developers, want to have. By going to a taller aspect ratio screen, every single application has to be redone, or requalified, to fit the new aspect ratio screen. If they want to, they could put a 4.5" 2:1 960x480 screen in there with 0.2" bezels on all sides, but I'm imagining that's a pretty big headache for basically all of the software guys. Not that I wouldn't want such a device, nay, I would love such a device.
By maintaining the same aspect ratio, it minimizes the amount of work all around. Most apps using all Cocoa touch graphics and such will work. Anything with custom graphics (which is basically all of the good apps) will have to be redone a bit. Going to a different aspect ratio screen, is another big step, and I imagine some apps have to be redesigned.