I have a friend and former colleague who does design work for a local business and he has a 24" iMac on his desk. Even without a direct source of light behind him (large windows are to his right) he has had to rearrange his workspace to alleviate some of the reflection and glare. He really hates the screen and seemed sort of glum about having the iMac. And this guy is a self-proclaimed Mac fanboy too.
I have pointed out several times now that one of the bragging rights about owning a Mac has been that it stays out of your way and is designed to fit the way people actually work. The fact that people have to adjust to accommodate the demands of the machine really sucks and is as far away from the Apple ideal as you can get.
I've never had any problems keeping matte screens clean and I'm not sure how much more durable a sheet of glass is by comparison. I have to say the idea of a breakable glass surface over the screen makes me a little nervous and doesn't seem any more durable than matte.
This is absolutely true. I will NOT drastically rearrange my workspace for a display!
As far as keeping a matte display clean: I NEVER touch it. EVER. I firmly request that people NOT touch the screen, whether it's my main monitor or MacBook Pro. It works.
I was extremely disappointed when I first saw the new display. For ME, the glossy screen is dreadful and a deal breaker. The DisplayPort connector is also an issue. I do like the built-in MagSafe connector. It's a very nice touch.
I immediately ordered a 26" ViewSonic VP2650wb monitor. No speakers or camera. It can be raised and lowered on it's stand and it pivots. It has both VGA and DVI inputs. It has a 4-port USB hub. The screen is matte. The bezel is matte black.
Sometimes Apple does some strange things at times. The numerous issues with this monitor, the gloss screens and the removal of FireWire 400 ports from the MacBook are clear examples.
Also, for the $400 dollars you think you are saving you don't get power management, isight reroute, good sound with subwoofer, audio reroute, usb reroute, instant dual monitor if needed, an any other soft-hardware integration apple can think of. I don't know about you but it is just not worth my time to spend 2-3 hours researching a cheapo alternative for the pennies you will save.
But why do you need the iSight or speakers when any sane person would use dual screen and hence have the laptop iSight sitting right there anyway? And what are you talking about "instant dual monitor"?? They all do that!! My Philips display plugs into my MacBook Pro with DVI and as soon as I make the connection the laptop screen flashes blue for a second then comes back in extended desktop mode. It remembers my settings - screen positioning, desktop wallpaper. It's not something Apple Cinema Displays do. It's something Mac OS X does.
But why do you need the iSight or speakers when any sane person would use dual screen and hence have the laptop iSight sitting right there anyway? And what are you talking about "instant dual monitor"?? They all do that!! My Philips display plugs into my MacBook Pro with DVI and as soon as I make the connection the laptop screen flashes blue for a second then comes back in extended desktop mode. It remembers my settings - screen positioning, desktop wallpaper. It's not something Apple Cinema Displays do. It's something Mac OS X does.
What "power management"?
I am not sure but I don't think I will want dual monitor if the second moni is the 13 or 15 inch screen and I need to rearrange all windows placements to take advantage of that... and when on the move I need to reset it all back to use just my laptop screen. Better for me to just keep the laptop closed and tucked away.
Power management or powering and recharging your laptop via the ACD instead of having more clutter from an extra magsafe power brick. You think this point is trivial until you have tasted the beauty of having a clutter free and streamlined setup in your office.
Just not worth the few hundred bucks your are "saving".
The looks of a monitor isn't the sole purpose of purchase. If it has a shitty LCD panel then I will go buy a monitor that doesn't have a shitty LCD panel.
I think he means the picture looks good. To some degree people make too much hay about the type panel used in the monitor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDonG4
The looks of a monitor isn't the sole purpose of purchase. If it has a shitty LCD panel then I will go buy a monitor that doesn't have a shitty LCD panel.
I think he means the picture looks good. To some degree people make too much hay about the type panel used in the monitor.
You really need to do a standard test before determining the quality. Generally displaying a grayscale gradient full screen is a good way of determining quality. This shows what the dark scenes in movies will look like. Cheaper panels will show noticeable banding in the darker parts of the gradients and panels that use dithering show flickering. The PVA and IPS symbols should at least signify that these issues won't be so bad - banding should be less and flickering non-existent. At the price this display is at, I would hope that would be the case.
You really need to do a standard test before determining the quality. Generally displaying a grayscale gradient full screen is a good way of determining quality. This shows what the dark scenes in movies will look like. Cheaper panels will show noticeable banding in the darker parts of the gradients and panels that use dithering show flickering. The PVA and IPS symbols should at least signify that these issues won't be so bad - banding should be less and flickering non-existent. At the price this display is at, I would hope that would be the case.
How do you tell the difference between PVA and IPS? Does one have a better refresh rate?
You really need to do a standard test before determining the quality. Generally displaying a grayscale gradient full screen is a good way of determining quality. This shows what the dark scenes in movies will look like. Cheaper panels will show noticeable banding in the darker parts of the gradients and panels that use dithering show flickering. The PVA and IPS symbols should at least signify that these issues won't be so bad - banding should be less and flickering non-existent. At the price this display is at, I would hope that would be the case.
Standard tests are OK and maybe necessary if you are in graphics. To the 95% of us we need a display that does text without too much eye strain and does a nice job with pictures. A simple 30 minute test drive on the new ACD should be enough to convince anyone that it is as good as some of the best displays out there.
Most people probably couldn't tell the difference and they are priced about the same. If it's a Samsung, it's probably PVA, otherwise it could be a rebranded LG S-IPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron
A simple 30 minute test drive on the new ACD should be enough to convince anyone that it is as good as some of the best displays out there.
A simple 30 minute test will show very little useful information for someone considering using it for 8 hours a day, all year round. Standard tests put the display under the conditions that will show it in its worst light so that you can be assured that you won't come across a scenario where the display doesn't work well. This goes for the glossy aspect. If they only showed it in good lighting, you'd be disappointed if you need to use it in a very brightly lit room.
If you are a gamer and the refresh is too low and this isn't tested, you won't find out until you buy one and find the fault while playing. If you don't test gradient banding and dithering, you may not see it until you view an image/movie that shows it up really badly.
If you don't test view-dependent color shifts, people who do use it for color correction may be disappointed at paying so much when they could have gone for an IPS display where this wouldn't be an issue.
If someone standing in front of a screen telling you it looks great watching whatever film is showing is enough to satisfy you, I doubt you are in the market for a $900 display. If I was looking to pay that much for a screen, I'd try to have people run as many thorough tests as possible to make sure I wasn't just throwing money away. You might be able to get a Dell display with a similar panel for half the price.
I get the impression that Apple aren't quite sure who this display is meant for. They seem to be marketing it to consumers but pricing for professionals.
Exactly iSheeps will buy anything with Apple logo on it, despite there are cheaper, better quality, more inputs, better refresh rate, and better color reproduction models from Dell, EIZO and NEC.
Apple not telling about S-PVA / S-IPS technology used should be enough for a person with a brain to NOT consider this panel at all.
But ... people with a brain are not market segment Apple is selling to lately. Those times are long gone.
It is really pathetic how Apple can get away with selling underperforming but overpriced HW. That company does not care about professionals anymore, they are selling to snobs and fashion lovers.
Since switching to Dell machines, Dell monitors (excellent 30" 3008WFP) and Vista x64 from Mac, I couldn't be happier.
Exactly iSheeps will buy anything with Apple logo on it, despite there are cheaper, better quality, more inputs, better refresh rate, and better color reproduction models from Dell, EIZO and NEC.
Apple not telling about S-PVA / S-IPS technology used should be enough for a person with a brain to NOT consider this panel at all.
But ... people with a brain are not market segment Apple is selling to lately. Those times are long gone.
It is really pathetic how Apple can get away with selling underperforming but overpriced HW. That company does not care about professionals anymore, they are selling to snobs and fashion lovers.
Since switching to Dell machines, Dell monitors (excellent 30" 3008WFP) and Vista x64 from Mac, I couldn't be happier.
Exactly iSheeps will buy anything with Apple logo on it, despite there are cheaper, better quality, more inputs, better refresh rate, and better color reproduction models from Dell, EIZO and NEC.
Apple not telling about S-PVA / S-IPS technology used should be enough for a person with a brain to NOT consider this panel at all.
But ... people with a brain are not market segment Apple is selling to lately. Those times are long gone.
It is really pathetic how Apple can get away with selling underperforming but overpriced HW. That company does not care about professionals anymore, they are selling to snobs and fashion lovers.
Since switching to Dell machines, Dell monitors (excellent 30" 3008WFP) and Vista x64 from Mac, I couldn't be happier.
LOL!!
As usual, you, like the majority of the populous, focus on tech buzz words to feel smart (S-PVA, S-IPS, gray-to-gray) and number of features instead of looking at the whole package for yourself with a critical eye (read: test drive it).
Again, the ACD is more expensive than comparable 24 inch LCDs but it does more. Most will be able to "live" with the inferior usability of other LCDs, others (read: the ones with real jobs) will care more about productivity and about not having to worry to plug 5 extra cables or remember to switch functions from one display to the other. Those are the people for whom time = money.
Tauron, you are an idiot and an ill spoken bufoon, and you prove it with each post you make.
Now, to everyone else here..... I've been an Apple user and owner for over 14 years. In that time I've persuaded dozens of friends, family members, and coworkers into purchasing Macs. Today, with the current offerings of Macs and other related hardware, I won't be trying to lead anyone toward Apple.
Macs share the same hardware as other PC vendors so why is it that their systems still lag behind other vendors in hardware? Where is BluRay? Why a non-standard video port? Why do MacBook Pros have slower CPUs than competitors? And why these substandard screens for MacBooks and MacBook Pro. Someone earlier suggested to compare MacBooks to Sony Vaios, which I did and the Vaios look very good in comparison. They have faster Core 2 Duos, better displays up to 18.6", BluRay drives, up to 1 TB HD, or dual SSD or both, up to 8 GB RAM, FireWire, HDMI, webcam, etc... and they have appealing, cleanly designed cases.
Gaming and BluRay movies on the go on an 18.6" X-Brite HD display & a 50 GB optical burner is what I was hoping for in new MacBooks. I don't own a TV and don't plan to own one for a long time. My MacBook Pro has a HD capable 1920 x 1200 display, yet I can't watch HD movies on it as there is no BluRay drive nor are there HD movies for sale or rent via iTunes. SD movies including DVDs look blurry as they are SD and have to be scaled up a lot to fill the screen. Apple expects me to own an HD TV so I can buy an Apple TV if I want to buy or rent HD movies from iTunes, even thought my MacBook Pro's hardware is perfectly capable of playing and displaying HD media.
The Vaio can play BluRay movies which are higher definition, more HD than Apple TV's offerings. With the Vaio, the only downside is running Vista. But, with EFI-x, maybe they can run OS X, too. And the prices, especially after adding options, are very reasonable.
I feel the same about the new ACD. I'd rather just a high quality monitor without the cameras and speakers and especially the glassy mirror screen. So it looks like I'm shopping elsewhere for a monitor as well.
Comments
I have a friend and former colleague who does design work for a local business and he has a 24" iMac on his desk. Even without a direct source of light behind him (large windows are to his right) he has had to rearrange his workspace to alleviate some of the reflection and glare. He really hates the screen and seemed sort of glum about having the iMac. And this guy is a self-proclaimed Mac fanboy too.
I have pointed out several times now that one of the bragging rights about owning a Mac has been that it stays out of your way and is designed to fit the way people actually work. The fact that people have to adjust to accommodate the demands of the machine really sucks and is as far away from the Apple ideal as you can get.
I've never had any problems keeping matte screens clean and I'm not sure how much more durable a sheet of glass is by comparison. I have to say the idea of a breakable glass surface over the screen makes me a little nervous and doesn't seem any more durable than matte.
This is absolutely true. I will NOT drastically rearrange my workspace for a display!
As far as keeping a matte display clean: I NEVER touch it. EVER. I firmly request that people NOT touch the screen, whether it's my main monitor or MacBook Pro. It works.
I was extremely disappointed when I first saw the new display. For ME, the glossy screen is dreadful and a deal breaker. The DisplayPort connector is also an issue. I do like the built-in MagSafe connector. It's a very nice touch.
I immediately ordered a 26" ViewSonic VP2650wb monitor. No speakers or camera. It can be raised and lowered on it's stand and it pivots. It has both VGA and DVI inputs. It has a 4-port USB hub. The screen is matte. The bezel is matte black.
Sometimes Apple does some strange things at times. The numerous issues with this monitor, the gloss screens and the removal of FireWire 400 ports from the MacBook are clear examples.
I love that I'm a "true arse" because I crack a joke about Jobs/Apple currently feels about matte display sales in relation to glossy display sales.
PS: Responding to Teckstud with facts, especially sourced ones, usually gets him riled up.
No- just your baseless posts sent from your elitist iPhone rile me up.
What fact did you post? That
STEVE JOBS DOESN"T CARE ABOUT MATTE PEOPLE!
? Now that's a real sourced fact.
Also, for the $400 dollars you think you are saving you don't get power management, isight reroute, good sound with subwoofer, audio reroute, usb reroute, instant dual monitor if needed, an any other soft-hardware integration apple can think of. I don't know about you but it is just not worth my time to spend 2-3 hours researching a cheapo alternative for the pennies you will save.
But why do you need the iSight or speakers when any sane person would use dual screen and hence have the laptop iSight sitting right there anyway? And what are you talking about "instant dual monitor"?? They all do that!! My Philips display plugs into my MacBook Pro with DVI and as soon as I make the connection the laptop screen flashes blue for a second then comes back in extended desktop mode. It remembers my settings - screen positioning, desktop wallpaper. It's not something Apple Cinema Displays do. It's something Mac OS X does.
What "power management"?
STEVE JOBS DOESN"T CARE ABOUT MATTE PEOPLE!
? Now that's a real sourced fact.
I'm pretty sure it was a joke. Probably in poor taste, but a joke none the less.
But why do you need the iSight or speakers when any sane person would use dual screen and hence have the laptop iSight sitting right there anyway? And what are you talking about "instant dual monitor"?? They all do that!! My Philips display plugs into my MacBook Pro with DVI and as soon as I make the connection the laptop screen flashes blue for a second then comes back in extended desktop mode. It remembers my settings - screen positioning, desktop wallpaper. It's not something Apple Cinema Displays do. It's something Mac OS X does.
What "power management"?
I am not sure but I don't think I will want dual monitor if the second moni is the 13 or 15 inch screen and I need to rearrange all windows placements to take advantage of that... and when on the move I need to reset it all back to use just my laptop screen. Better for me to just keep the laptop closed and tucked away.
Power management or powering and recharging your laptop via the ACD instead of having more clutter from an extra magsafe power brick. You think this point is trivial until you have tasted the beauty of having a clutter free and streamlined setup in your office.
Just not worth the few hundred bucks your are "saving".
AI Staff: Has there been any determination if this is an IPS or PVA panel?
Who cares? It looks good, period.
Who cares? It looks good, period.
The looks of a monitor isn't the sole purpose of purchase. If it has a shitty LCD panel then I will go buy a monitor that doesn't have a shitty LCD panel.
The looks of a monitor isn't the sole purpose of purchase. If it has a shitty LCD panel then I will go buy a monitor that doesn't have a shitty LCD panel.
I think he means the picture looks good. To some degree people make too much hay about the type panel used in the monitor.
You really need to do a standard test before determining the quality. Generally displaying a grayscale gradient full screen is a good way of determining quality. This shows what the dark scenes in movies will look like. Cheaper panels will show noticeable banding in the darker parts of the gradients and panels that use dithering show flickering. The PVA and IPS symbols should at least signify that these issues won't be so bad - banding should be less and flickering non-existent. At the price this display is at, I would hope that would be the case.
You really need to do a standard test before determining the quality. Generally displaying a grayscale gradient full screen is a good way of determining quality. This shows what the dark scenes in movies will look like. Cheaper panels will show noticeable banding in the darker parts of the gradients and panels that use dithering show flickering. The PVA and IPS symbols should at least signify that these issues won't be so bad - banding should be less and flickering non-existent. At the price this display is at, I would hope that would be the case.
How do you tell the difference between PVA and IPS? Does one have a better refresh rate?
You really need to do a standard test before determining the quality. Generally displaying a grayscale gradient full screen is a good way of determining quality. This shows what the dark scenes in movies will look like. Cheaper panels will show noticeable banding in the darker parts of the gradients and panels that use dithering show flickering. The PVA and IPS symbols should at least signify that these issues won't be so bad - banding should be less and flickering non-existent. At the price this display is at, I would hope that would be the case.
Standard tests are OK and maybe necessary if you are in graphics. To the 95% of us we need a display that does text without too much eye strain and does a nice job with pictures. A simple 30 minute test drive on the new ACD should be enough to convince anyone that it is as good as some of the best displays out there.
How do you tell the difference between PVA and IPS? Does one have a better refresh rate?
PVA has a contrast shift when changing viewing angle. Here are descriptions of the display types:
http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides...anel-types.php
http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=641&page=3
http://www.digitaltigers.com/s-ips.shtml
Most people probably couldn't tell the difference and they are priced about the same. If it's a Samsung, it's probably PVA, otherwise it could be a rebranded LG S-IPS.
A simple 30 minute test drive on the new ACD should be enough to convince anyone that it is as good as some of the best displays out there.
A simple 30 minute test will show very little useful information for someone considering using it for 8 hours a day, all year round. Standard tests put the display under the conditions that will show it in its worst light so that you can be assured that you won't come across a scenario where the display doesn't work well. This goes for the glossy aspect. If they only showed it in good lighting, you'd be disappointed if you need to use it in a very brightly lit room.
If you are a gamer and the refresh is too low and this isn't tested, you won't find out until you buy one and find the fault while playing. If you don't test gradient banding and dithering, you may not see it until you view an image/movie that shows it up really badly.
If you don't test view-dependent color shifts, people who do use it for color correction may be disappointed at paying so much when they could have gone for an IPS display where this wouldn't be an issue.
If someone standing in front of a screen telling you it looks great watching whatever film is showing is enough to satisfy you, I doubt you are in the market for a $900 display. If I was looking to pay that much for a screen, I'd try to have people run as many thorough tests as possible to make sure I wasn't just throwing money away. You might be able to get a Dell display with a similar panel for half the price.
I get the impression that Apple aren't quite sure who this display is meant for. They seem to be marketing it to consumers but pricing for professionals.
Who cares? It looks good, period.
Exactly
Apple not telling about S-PVA / S-IPS technology used should be enough for a person with a brain to NOT consider this panel at all.
But ... people with a brain are not market segment Apple is selling to lately. Those times are long gone.
It is really pathetic how Apple can get away with selling underperforming but overpriced HW. That company does not care about professionals anymore, they are selling to snobs and fashion lovers.
Since switching to Dell machines, Dell monitors (excellent 30" 3008WFP) and Vista x64 from Mac, I couldn't be happier.
Exactly
Apple not telling about S-PVA / S-IPS technology used should be enough for a person with a brain to NOT consider this panel at all.
But ... people with a brain are not market segment Apple is selling to lately. Those times are long gone.
It is really pathetic how Apple can get away with selling underperforming but overpriced HW. That company does not care about professionals anymore, they are selling to snobs and fashion lovers.
Since switching to Dell machines, Dell monitors (excellent 30" 3008WFP) and Vista x64 from Mac, I couldn't be happier.
Enjoy your Dell.
Exactly
Apple not telling about S-PVA / S-IPS technology used should be enough for a person with a brain to NOT consider this panel at all.
But ... people with a brain are not market segment Apple is selling to lately. Those times are long gone.
It is really pathetic how Apple can get away with selling underperforming but overpriced HW. That company does not care about professionals anymore, they are selling to snobs and fashion lovers.
Since switching to Dell machines, Dell monitors (excellent 30" 3008WFP) and Vista x64 from Mac, I couldn't be happier.
LOL!!
As usual, you, like the majority of the populous, focus on tech buzz words to feel smart (S-PVA, S-IPS, gray-to-gray) and number of features instead of looking at the whole package for yourself with a critical eye (read: test drive it).
Again, the ACD is more expensive than comparable 24 inch LCDs but it does more. Most will be able to "live" with the inferior usability of other LCDs, others (read: the ones with real jobs) will care more about productivity and about not having to worry to plug 5 extra cables or remember to switch functions from one display to the other. Those are the people for whom time = money.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...11&postcount=1
24" LED ACD is an IPS panel.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...11&postcount=1
Cool, are we done now?
Cool, are we done now?
Apparently we're not done until you're done belittling other people for having a viewpoint that disagrees with yours.
Now, to everyone else here..... I've been an Apple user and owner for over 14 years. In that time I've persuaded dozens of friends, family members, and coworkers into purchasing Macs. Today, with the current offerings of Macs and other related hardware, I won't be trying to lead anyone toward Apple.
Macs share the same hardware as other PC vendors so why is it that their systems still lag behind other vendors in hardware? Where is BluRay? Why a non-standard video port? Why do MacBook Pros have slower CPUs than competitors? And why these substandard screens for MacBooks and MacBook Pro. Someone earlier suggested to compare MacBooks to Sony Vaios, which I did and the Vaios look very good in comparison. They have faster Core 2 Duos, better displays up to 18.6", BluRay drives, up to 1 TB HD, or dual SSD or both, up to 8 GB RAM, FireWire, HDMI, webcam, etc... and they have appealing, cleanly designed cases.
Gaming and BluRay movies on the go on an 18.6" X-Brite HD display & a 50 GB optical burner is what I was hoping for in new MacBooks. I don't own a TV and don't plan to own one for a long time. My MacBook Pro has a HD capable 1920 x 1200 display, yet I can't watch HD movies on it as there is no BluRay drive nor are there HD movies for sale or rent via iTunes. SD movies including DVDs look blurry as they are SD and have to be scaled up a lot to fill the screen. Apple expects me to own an HD TV so I can buy an Apple TV if I want to buy or rent HD movies from iTunes, even thought my MacBook Pro's hardware is perfectly capable of playing and displaying HD media.
The Vaio can play BluRay movies which are higher definition, more HD than Apple TV's offerings. With the Vaio, the only downside is running Vista. But, with EFI-x, maybe they can run OS X, too. And the prices, especially after adding options, are very reasonable.
I feel the same about the new ACD. I'd rather just a high quality monitor without the cameras and speakers and especially the glassy mirror screen. So it looks like I'm shopping elsewhere for a monitor as well.