What? It's only logical that every mounted drive keeps its own trash. To be able to recover the files from the trash, they must still be on the storage device, and not be overwritten. So you don't get your space back until you delete them.
Yes, it was always thus. Same with Windows, ain't it?
RE 10.6 64 bit, boy am I glad I waited till I did to buy my Mac Pro, I'd be really pissed off if I didn't get all it offered on such an expensive beast. I pity those who were first to buy Mac Pros. Perhaps the 64 bit support will be coming in 10.6.1 for older Mac Pros? I also wonder if Adobe will quickly release support for it?
The story says that 64-bit support will be extended to older machine as Snow Leopard develop progresses.
I don't know how many times I've posted this (and yes, to Apple Feedback), but I'd like to see the screen sharing issue with multiple monitors fixed. This occurs with BTMM and Screen Sharing.
For OSX Server to be taken seriously again, it needs a different maintenance cycle than OSX Workstation. Some of the OSX Leopard Server installations had serious enough problems that they were shelved and the data was migrated to a Windows Server. The most serious and awkward problem was when the Server would not allow the admin to log back in!! Another one was when it corrupted the Users and Groups database, the Users and Groups become irreparable and un-deletable. Unfortunately these weren't isolated issues.
These issues would be on top of any IT's list of nightmares. OS X Server has some fabulous features but Apple needs to provide stability to foundational features such as file sharing, and regular bug fixes to serious issues such as permissions. They also need to treat Server customers differently. Their Server tech support contract is $14,000 per year!!! and it did nothing to help in such cases, the help you get from them is the same help you find on their fora! kinda ridiculous if you ask me.
Its too long to go into here but they are not bugs. We have been running server for over a year and the problems you described are setup ones. To do with how users are created and you have to understand permissions but once you do its pretty solid. Another big help was "Mac OS X 10.5 Server Essentials" series which walks you through setup for the first time if you are unfamiliar.
I don't understand why they don't just hold 10.5.6 until the new hardware ships in January. That way all Macs would be running the same build of the OS instead of the rather idiotic "normal" situation where each new piece of hardware requires its own unique build.
I understand people are waiting for fixes now, but for a lot of people whether they release December 23 or January 6 is irrelevant.
I don't understand why they don't just hold 10.5.6 until the new hardware ships in January. That way all Macs would be running the same build of the OS instead of the rather idiotic "normal" situation where each new piece of hardware requires its own unique build.
I understand people are waiting for fixes now, but for a lot of people whether they release December 23 or January 6 is irrelevant.
But what you're suggesting works the opposite of what you're saying.
If Apple releases the update before Macworld, then people will gt the chance to update by the time the new machines are out. then, as you want, by that time, most people could be running the same version.
If they wait until the 5th, then that won't happen. Most people will lag the new machines, and people won't all be on the same version at once.
At any rate, it hardly matters, as we're only talking about a week or so.
Besides what does the release date for the update have to due with different machines needing special versions? If that were still true, and from what I know, it's not true anymore, it would still be true.
Not exactly. Developers are under NDA about most of this. It's good we get info on some of it.
As Mel says, be thankful for what you do get. Those of us with access to the original documents don't post them because (a) it's wrong, (b) we could lose our jobs, (c) Apple could start legal action against us.
No I'm not using Apple's AE. I use Netgear Rangemax N.
Yes deleted all setting etc, etc, etc.
Works well in wireless G not so well in N.
Thanks for your comments & help.
I got the same router & wireless N has never been stable for me. Wireless N is still in draft, I never should have wasted my money on an N router, especially one that probably won't ever support the expected 600MB/s speeds that are supposed to be possible with the final draft of N.
Read up on N & you'll find that it is fairly common to have issues across different hardware because of manufacturing differences & loose use of the draft specs. You really can't hope for much unless you are using all the same hardware, & even then some companies have screwed up & used different N chips in router vs wifi card only to later find they don't play well together.
We have the same problems with our iPhones. I only have the wireless "N" set up for the iPhones. The rest of the network is GB Ethernet.
The WiFi symbol shows up on the phone, but as soon as you try to use it, it drops to 3G. Can't figure that one out. The phone works on most other networks. I'm assuming it's the router, but, who knows?
I'd like to see the annoying bug I discovered last night taken care of. Of course it may actually be a feature. I moved photos from my MicroSD to the trash and the memory count on the MicroSD didn't move down one bit. Every time I tried to copy a new file to the MicroSD card it said it was full. I had to empty the trash for the memory on the MicroSD card to free-up. That's just plain retarded for the OS to hold that memory hostage like that. The trash and the flash memory need to part-ways in one of these bug fixes.
When you mount a memory card and delete an image from it (move it to the trash), what should the computer do:
(A) Delete the file immediately
(B) Copy the file to thrash of your boot drive and delete it from the memory card
(C) Move the file into a trash folder on the memory card
I cannot speak of Windows, but on Macs (C) was the solution at least since System 7 (ca. 1992) but probably already since the original Macintosh.
I hope the update speeds up MobileMe syncing! It takes over 5 minutes for mine to sync (and it's only syncing contacts, events, and bookmarks). It seems the little sync icon in the menu bar is always spinning, and checking Activity Monitor shows network data only trickling in at under 10 kbps...slower than dial-up modem speeds 15 years ago!
We have the same problems with our iPhones. I only have the wireless "N" set up for the iPhones. The rest of the network is GB Ethernet.
The WiFi symbol shows up on the phone, but as soon as you try to use it, it drops to 3G. Can't figure that one out. The phone works on most other networks. I'm assuming it's the router, but, who knows?
As far as I know, the iPhone doesn't support 802.11n. Try 802.11g.
I'd like to see the annoying bug I discovered last night taken care of. Of course it may actually be a feature. I moved photos from my MicroSD to the trash and the memory count on the MicroSD didn't move down one bit. Every time I tried to copy a new file to the MicroSD card it said it was full. I had to empty the trash for the memory on the MicroSD card to free-up. That's just plain retarded for the OS to hold that memory hostage like that. The trash and the flash memory need to part-ways in one of these bug fixes.
Wow. You're kidding right? As everyone explained to you, that is not a bug, it is the normal operation of moving files to the trash for any disk. Dragging files to the trash does not delete them until you empty the trash. That is the way it works for any computer. That has been a feature since 1990 when System 7 was introduced. (System 6 lost the trash contents whenever the Mac was restarted, shut down, or crashed requiring a restart).
If you want images deleted immediately from your memory card, connect your camera to the Mac, and let iPhoto import the photos and automatically remove them from the card.
Its too long to go into here but they are not bugs. We have been running server for over a year and the problems you described are setup ones. To do with how users are created and you have to understand permissions but once you do its pretty solid. Another big help was "Mac OS X 10.5 Server Essentials" series which walks you through setup for the first time if you are unfamiliar.
Thank you for the answer fellaintga. I'm actually quite familiar with permissions, been doing servers since '96. I also had the pleasure of installing OSX Servers since v10.1, and I've been installing about one or two every year and still maintain many. But since Leopard Server I now only recommend Ubuntu Server or Windows Server 2003. I had high hopes for 10.5.5, although it repaired a few outstanding issues, it also created other new ones such as slower AFP performance.
Snow Leopard Server will probably be a lot better and more stable, but the experience and lack of timely updates has set Apple back in the IT field. I had doubt, but now it's confirmed, Apple just does not get-it when it comes to their IT customers.
You and drones of others. Its not just your N router, by the way, include G-routers and also Apple's own routers. iMacs and Laptops are affected. For all intents and purposes many (MANY!) people's Apple experiences are greatly diminished by the fact that their computers cannot stay connected via built in Airport to their routers for more than a minute or two. On the same network Windows machines work, Apples wont. If you are the kind of person who frequents forums like this you can at least figure out that other people have the same problem (you can't fix it, though, it seems) and get some consolation from that, but I wonder how all the people who are not computer literate and bought a Mac because it is 'so much easier' feel.
Drones of others??? What are you talking about? Why don't you give some examples of which Macs may be affected. I don't have any problems with my Macs staying connected to my wireless router. I don't think anyone else experiences your alleged problems with a wireless network.
"I'd like to see the annoying bug I discovered last night taken care of. Of course it may actually be a feature. I moved photos from my MicroSD to the trash and the memory count on the MicroSD didn't move down one bit. Every time I tried to copy a new file to the MicroSD card it said it was full. I had to empty the trash for the memory on the MicroSD card to free-up. That's just plain retarded for the OS to hold that memory hostage like that. The trash and the flash memory need to part-ways in one of these bug fixes."
This has been the standard feature for a long time, I think it predates OSX, but I could be wrong, seems like it has always been this way. You have to empty the trash before files are totally deleted. This is a safety feature to make sure you don't delete files accidentally. If files were deleted solely by dragged to the trash, users would complain they didn't get a second notification for files being deleted. I still have to ?Empty Recycle Bin? on my windows computer at work before files are totally deleted as well, so it?s not a new or distinctly Apple feature either.
I remember having this issue with 744k floppies on my old Mac IIsi (OS 7.0.1) and on. It is a mac thing and can get a tad confusing. If you plug the MicroSD into windows you will find a folder called .Trashes and the files you wanted to delete will be there until you empty the trash in OS X (or you could just delete the file... though make sure you have "Show Hidden Files" selected in the View tab of Folder Options in your Windows OS. Not that one should boot to windows to delete files only... just saying in case you wanted to know just where the files resided. (I'm sure you can find a way to show the .Trashes folder in OS X too.)
But yeah, nothing new. Its a "feature".
What would be nice is if OS X would stop putting those Desktop.DS files EVERYWHERE and having a 4k file of ._filenamehere of every file you open on an NTFS/FAT32 partition (or at least a user accessible option to stop it from putting such silly files everywhere that clutter and take up space!)
Comments
What? It's only logical that every mounted drive keeps its own trash. To be able to recover the files from the trash, they must still be on the storage device, and not be overwritten. So you don't get your space back until you delete them.
Yes, it was always thus. Same with Windows, ain't it?
RE 10.6 64 bit, boy am I glad I waited till I did to buy my Mac Pro, I'd be really pissed off if I didn't get all it offered on such an expensive beast. I pity those who were first to buy Mac Pros. Perhaps the 64 bit support will be coming in 10.6.1 for older Mac Pros? I also wonder if Adobe will quickly release support for it?
The story says that 64-bit support will be extended to older machine as Snow Leopard develop progresses.
Syncing issues with MobileMe sounds great too.
Useless story without the actual info, IMO.
For OSX Server to be taken seriously again, it needs a different maintenance cycle than OSX Workstation. Some of the OSX Leopard Server installations had serious enough problems that they were shelved and the data was migrated to a Windows Server. The most serious and awkward problem was when the Server would not allow the admin to log back in!! Another one was when it corrupted the Users and Groups database, the Users and Groups become irreparable and un-deletable. Unfortunately these weren't isolated issues.
These issues would be on top of any IT's list of nightmares. OS X Server has some fabulous features but Apple needs to provide stability to foundational features such as file sharing, and regular bug fixes to serious issues such as permissions. They also need to treat Server customers differently. Their Server tech support contract is $14,000 per year!!! and it did nothing to help in such cases, the help you get from them is the same help you find on their fora! kinda ridiculous if you ask me.
Its too long to go into here but they are not bugs. We have been running server for over a year and the problems you described are setup ones. To do with how users are created and you have to understand permissions but once you do its pretty solid. Another big help was "Mac OS X 10.5 Server Essentials" series which walks you through setup for the first time if you are unfamiliar.
So where are the developer notes? Or has AppleInsider not actually seen them?
Useless story without the actual info, IMO.
Not exactly. Developers are under NDA about most of this. It's good we get info on some of it.
I understand people are waiting for fixes now, but for a lot of people whether they release December 23 or January 6 is irrelevant.
I don't understand why they don't just hold 10.5.6 until the new hardware ships in January. That way all Macs would be running the same build of the OS instead of the rather idiotic "normal" situation where each new piece of hardware requires its own unique build.
I understand people are waiting for fixes now, but for a lot of people whether they release December 23 or January 6 is irrelevant.
But what you're suggesting works the opposite of what you're saying.
If Apple releases the update before Macworld, then people will gt the chance to update by the time the new machines are out. then, as you want, by that time, most people could be running the same version.
If they wait until the 5th, then that won't happen. Most people will lag the new machines, and people won't all be on the same version at once.
At any rate, it hardly matters, as we're only talking about a week or so.
Besides what does the release date for the update have to due with different machines needing special versions? If that were still true, and from what I know, it's not true anymore, it would still be true.
Not exactly. Developers are under NDA about most of this. It's good we get info on some of it.
As Mel says, be thankful for what you do get. Those of us with access to the original documents don't post them because (a) it's wrong, (b) we could lose our jobs, (c) Apple could start legal action against us.
No I'm not using Apple's AE. I use Netgear Rangemax N.
Yes deleted all setting etc, etc, etc.
Works well in wireless G not so well in N.
Thanks for your comments & help.
I got the same router & wireless N has never been stable for me. Wireless N is still in draft, I never should have wasted my money on an N router, especially one that probably won't ever support the expected 600MB/s speeds that are supposed to be possible with the final draft of N.
Read up on N & you'll find that it is fairly common to have issues across different hardware because of manufacturing differences & loose use of the draft specs. You really can't hope for much unless you are using all the same hardware, & even then some companies have screwed up & used different N chips in router vs wifi card only to later find they don't play well together.
The WiFi symbol shows up on the phone, but as soon as you try to use it, it drops to 3G. Can't figure that one out. The phone works on most other networks. I'm assuming it's the router, but, who knows?
I'd like to see the annoying bug I discovered last night taken care of. Of course it may actually be a feature. I moved photos from my MicroSD to the trash and the memory count on the MicroSD didn't move down one bit. Every time I tried to copy a new file to the MicroSD card it said it was full. I had to empty the trash for the memory on the MicroSD card to free-up. That's just plain retarded for the OS to hold that memory hostage like that. The trash and the flash memory need to part-ways in one of these bug fixes.
When you mount a memory card and delete an image from it (move it to the trash), what should the computer do:
(A) Delete the file immediately
(B) Copy the file to thrash of your boot drive and delete it from the memory card
(C) Move the file into a trash folder on the memory card
I cannot speak of Windows, but on Macs (C) was the solution at least since System 7 (ca. 1992) but probably already since the original Macintosh.
We have the same problems with our iPhones. I only have the wireless "N" set up for the iPhones. The rest of the network is GB Ethernet.
The WiFi symbol shows up on the phone, but as soon as you try to use it, it drops to 3G. Can't figure that one out. The phone works on most other networks. I'm assuming it's the router, but, who knows?
As far as I know, the iPhone doesn't support 802.11n. Try 802.11g.
I'd like to see the annoying bug I discovered last night taken care of. Of course it may actually be a feature. I moved photos from my MicroSD to the trash and the memory count on the MicroSD didn't move down one bit. Every time I tried to copy a new file to the MicroSD card it said it was full. I had to empty the trash for the memory on the MicroSD card to free-up. That's just plain retarded for the OS to hold that memory hostage like that. The trash and the flash memory need to part-ways in one of these bug fixes.
Wow. You're kidding right? As everyone explained to you, that is not a bug, it is the normal operation of moving files to the trash for any disk. Dragging files to the trash does not delete them until you empty the trash. That is the way it works for any computer. That has been a feature since 1990 when System 7 was introduced. (System 6 lost the trash contents whenever the Mac was restarted, shut down, or crashed requiring a restart).
If you want images deleted immediately from your memory card, connect your camera to the Mac, and let iPhoto import the photos and automatically remove them from the card.
Its too long to go into here but they are not bugs. We have been running server for over a year and the problems you described are setup ones. To do with how users are created and you have to understand permissions but once you do its pretty solid. Another big help was "Mac OS X 10.5 Server Essentials" series which walks you through setup for the first time if you are unfamiliar.
Thank you for the answer fellaintga. I'm actually quite familiar with permissions, been doing servers since '96. I also had the pleasure of installing OSX Servers since v10.1, and I've been installing about one or two every year and still maintain many. But since Leopard Server I now only recommend Ubuntu Server or Windows Server 2003. I had high hopes for 10.5.5, although it repaired a few outstanding issues, it also created other new ones such as slower AFP performance.
Snow Leopard Server will probably be a lot better and more stable, but the experience and lack of timely updates has set Apple back in the IT field. I had doubt, but now it's confirmed, Apple just does not get-it when it comes to their IT customers.
You and drones of others. Its not just your N router, by the way, include G-routers and also Apple's own routers. iMacs and Laptops are affected. For all intents and purposes many (MANY!) people's Apple experiences are greatly diminished by the fact that their computers cannot stay connected via built in Airport to their routers for more than a minute or two. On the same network Windows machines work, Apples wont. If you are the kind of person who frequents forums like this you can at least figure out that other people have the same problem (you can't fix it, though, it seems) and get some consolation from that, but I wonder how all the people who are not computer literate and bought a Mac because it is 'so much easier' feel.
Drones of others??? What are you talking about? Why don't you give some examples of which Macs may be affected. I don't have any problems with my Macs staying connected to my wireless router. I don't think anyone else experiences your alleged problems with a wireless network.
When you mount a memory card and delete an image from it (move it to the trash), what should the computer do:
(A) Delete the file immediately
(B) Copy the file to thrash of your boot drive and delete it from the memory card
(C) Move the file into a trash folder on the memory card
I cannot speak of Windows, but on Macs (C) was the solution at least since System 7 (ca. 1992) but probably already since the original Macintosh.
Windows does (A) on removable and network drives.
As far as I know, the iPhone doesn't support 802.11n. Try 802.11g.
It's the fallback mode to the router, so it works that way as well automatically.
"I'd like to see the annoying bug I discovered last night taken care of. Of course it may actually be a feature. I moved photos from my MicroSD to the trash and the memory count on the MicroSD didn't move down one bit. Every time I tried to copy a new file to the MicroSD card it said it was full. I had to empty the trash for the memory on the MicroSD card to free-up. That's just plain retarded for the OS to hold that memory hostage like that. The trash and the flash memory need to part-ways in one of these bug fixes."
This has been the standard feature for a long time, I think it predates OSX, but I could be wrong, seems like it has always been this way. You have to empty the trash before files are totally deleted. This is a safety feature to make sure you don't delete files accidentally. If files were deleted solely by dragged to the trash, users would complain they didn't get a second notification for files being deleted. I still have to ?Empty Recycle Bin? on my windows computer at work before files are totally deleted as well, so it?s not a new or distinctly Apple feature either.
I remember having this issue with 744k floppies on my old Mac IIsi (OS 7.0.1) and on. It is a mac thing and can get a tad confusing. If you plug the MicroSD into windows you will find a folder called .Trashes and the files you wanted to delete will be there until you empty the trash in OS X (or you could just delete the file... though make sure you have "Show Hidden Files" selected in the View tab of Folder Options in your Windows OS. Not that one should boot to windows to delete files only... just saying in case you wanted to know just where the files resided. (I'm sure you can find a way to show the .Trashes folder in OS X too.)
But yeah, nothing new. Its a "feature".
What would be nice is if OS X would stop putting those Desktop.DS files EVERYWHERE and having a 4k file of ._filenamehere of every file you open on an NTFS/FAT32 partition (or at least a user accessible option to stop it from putting such silly files everywhere that clutter and take up space!)