I think he means that when you re-compress it, the quality goes down.
That would depend on the codec and bitrate as I previously mentioned. If that is a concern and space isn't then using a lossless codec is always an option.
That would depend on the codec and bitrate as I previously mentioned. If that is a concern and space isn't then using a lossless codec is always an option.
Unless it's a lossless compressor, you will lose quality. Just how much depends. But compressing an already compressed file results in artifacting that is nonlinear in nature, as the compressor knows nothing about what was already done to the file.
Even if you re-compress at 512Kbs, it will result in a fair amount of loss because of this.
It was only a month ago that I believed that, but when I saw actual tests that said otherwise, I abandoned that belief. The page I linked shows equivalent reproduction quality for the same bitrate, and it's a commonly used bitrate too. I think it's a little different when you starve the bitrate, but it's not really happening here.
Its true, the difference between 128kb AAC and 128kb MP3 is not discernible by the human ear. Its basically a marketing myth. The real difference between AAC and MP3 is that AAC is capable of carrying more than 2 channels of audio, such as 5.1 sound, which means nothing to someone listening to stereo music tracks. The real issue for sound quality is bit rate, not AAC vs MP3. That's why I encode everything at 320kb mp3.
Even if you re-compress at 512Kbs, it will result in a fair amount of loss because of this.
I've heard similar things over the years but I can't wrap my head around it as being true and have seen no testing that backs up the claims. While I agree that their will be a loss, I have doubts that it would be noticeable. And we must consider that those buying iTS music are not, by any definition, audiophiles that should really be caring about a slight loss of quality that doesn't affects their unrefined(?) ears and consumer grade HW.
Its true, the difference between 128kb AAC and 128kb MP3 is not discernible by the human ear. Its basically a marketing myth. The real difference between AAC and MP3 is that AAC is capable of carrying more than 2 channels of audio, such as 5.1 sound, which means nothing to someone listening to stereo music tracks. The real issue for sound quality is bit rate, not AAC vs MP3. That's why I encode everything at 320kb mp3.
I disagree. I can hear some differences, mostly in the higher frequencies. But you need a really good system, and the music itself must HAVE a good deal of strong high frequency content.
Electronic music is most susceptible to this than is much classical music.
Once you get to 256, the differences become less. At 320, it's almost impossible to tell most of the time.
I've heard similar things over the years but I can't wrap my head around it as being true and have seen no testing that backs up the claims. While I agree that their will be a loss, I have doubts that it would be noticeable. And we must consider that those buying iTS music are not, by any definition, audiophiles that should really be caring about a slight loss of quality that doesn't affects their unrefined(?) ears and consumer grade HW.
It's true. I've worked on this myself using Pro Tools and software for comparing soundwaves. You can see it when you magnify the samples.
It's very difficult to see with most music without using Fast Fourier Transforms, but then, it's obvious. The FFT separates the waveforms into their component sine waves. You can see the problems there.
How many people notice this, or even care, is something else.
But it will be interesting 10 years from now when people with iTunes libraries worth $1,000s die, get divorced, kids go off to college, etc. Today you can split the CD/DVD collection and go your separate ways. How are you going to do that with your iTunes library? iTunes DRM is easy to use, but difficult to pass on as there is no way to transfer ownership. I don't have a problem with this when it comes to music. I don't buy a whole lot on iTunes, and I figure I get my 99 cents worth through repeated listening. But start charging $14.99 per movie (at lower quality that DVD, mind you) and it starts to become an issue if I can't lend, give, or sell it to someone after I've watched it a few times.
Well, since you can now authorize up to 5 computers to play your iTunes Store purchased songs (with DRM) I imagine you can just give up an authorized computer (or two) with the songs on them. If it works the way I thinks it works, purchasing an iTune Store song (with DRM) can actually results in 5 copies of those songs. All originals and all can be given away separately on an authorized computer. And the original purchaser (or anyone with access to the account) can de-authorized a computer and authorize another one if one of the computers needs to be replaced. So long as there's no more than 5 computers authorized. So up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album. Where as only one person can legally own an album purchased on a CD.
Now I'm not sure if iTune Store movies works the same way. Hell, I'm not even sure if music fron iTunes Store works this way.
I'm unfamiliar as to how CD-RW writes a lesser quality RedBook CCDA than it does to CD-Rs. Can you explain it?
As others guessed...
Well, the post i was referring to seemed to be suggesting you could burn a FairPlay track as a music CD, then re-rip it into iTunes to have a non-DRM'd mp3/aac. In that case there would be a noticeable loss of quality.
I mentioned CD-RW because it was the expample used in the post I was responding to. The same effect would, of course, be seen on a CD-R
I don't care to keep an iTunes library full of lossless music... takes up way too much room on an 8 gig iPhone .
Well, since you can now authorize up to 5 computers to play your iTunes Store purchased songs (with DRM) I imagine you can just give up an authorized computer (or two) with the songs on them. If it works the way I thinks it works, purchasing an iTune Store song (with DRM) can actually results in 5 copies of those songs. All originals and all can be given away separately on an authorized computer. And the original purchaser (or anyone with access to the account) can de-authorized a computer and authorize another one if one of the computers needs to be replaced. So long as there's no more than 5 computers authorized. So up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album. Where as only one person can legally own an album purchased on a CD.
Now I'm not sure if iTune Store movies works the same way. Hell, I'm not even sure if music fron iTunes Store works this way.
I think you've got the technical aspects right, and I think the same 5 computer limit applies to videos. However, I'm not sure about the "up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album" aspects. You can authorize the computers, but does that mean the owner of that computer "owns" the music? I haven't read the license agreement that closely (shame on me!). It's possible that the 5-computer sharing is intended and licensed for "same household" sharing (ie, you have more than one computer in your house).
Well, since you can now authorize up to 5 computers to play your iTunes Store purchased songs (with DRM) I imagine you can just give up an authorized computer (or two) with the songs on them. If it works the way I thinks it works, purchasing an iTune Store song (with DRM) can actually results in 5 copies of those songs. All originals and all can be given away separately on an authorized computer. And the original purchaser (or anyone with access to the account) can de-authorized a computer and authorize another one if one of the computers needs to be replaced. So long as there's no more than 5 computers authorized. So up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album. Where as only one person can legally own an album purchased on a CD.
Now I'm not sure if iTune Store movies works the same way. Hell, I'm not even sure if music fron iTunes Store works this way.
The authorization is associated with YOUR AppleID. Are you going to give away your AppleID password with the 4 "extra copies" you give away???
And if that song is transfered to an iPod through one of those authorized computers, then that iPod counts as one of the 5 authorized devices (in addition to the originating computer.)
I think you've got the technical aspects right, and I think the same 5 computer limit applies to videos. However, I'm not sure about the "up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album" aspects. You can authorize the computers, but does that mean the owner of that computer "owns" the music? I haven't read the license agreement that closely (shame on me!). It's possible that the 5-computer sharing is intended and licensed for "same household" sharing (ie, you have more than one computer in your house).
When I say "legally own" the music I realy meant to "legally have in your possession". If you have an authorized computer that can play the iTune purchased songs, then you are entiltled to play those songs. Right? It's not like a CD, where you can't legally own a copy that you made from a friends original CD. Whether it's on a CD media, in an MP3 player or on a computer.)
Does the same "household" includes a laptop that you gave to your kid who uses it in college, in another state? How about a computer that you use at work, but own by your company? (providing of course your company alllows you to have iTunes on it.) How about a computer in your, out of the country, vacation home? Suppose I loan one of my authorized computer to a friend, indefinately. Do I have to (or suppose to) de-authorize it so that he can't listen to my iTunes Store purchased music on it? Even if I still consider myself the owner of that computer. I can lend out any of my original CD's to a girlfriend. Can I "lend" out my iTunes Store purchased songs by just authorizing her home computer (or laptop) in my iTunes account?
The authorization is associated with YOUR AppleID. Are you going to give away your AppleID password with the 4 "extra copies" you give away???
And if that song is transfered to an iPod through one of those authorized computers, then that iPod counts as one of the 5 authorized devices (in addition to the originating computer.)
Well you don't have to give away your AppleID password in order for someone to play your iTunes purchased songs on that authorized computer. Granted the owner of that computer can not transfer it to another computer without your permission.
I don't think an iPod is consider one of your "devices". There's already 6 iPods in my household. Does this mean that I can't put an iTunes Store purchased song (with DRM) on 2 of the iPods?
Edit comment: I don't buy online music because the quailty isn't good enough. If the music is worth owning, then it's got to be good enough to play on my home stereo. Therefore I buy all my music on CD's (mainly used) and vinyl. So iTunes Store purchased songs are foreign to me.
But just out of curiosity. Can two (or more) AppleID accounts reside in the same computer? In the same iTunes library? Or is it one iTunes account per computer or per library?
Well you don't have to give away your AppleID password in order for someone to play your iTunes purchased songs on that authorized computer. Granted the owner of that computer can not transfer it to another computer without your permission.
I don't think an iPod is consider one of your "devices". There's already 6 iPods in my household. Does this mean that I can't put an iTunes Store purchased song (with DRM) on 2 of the iPods?
The number of iPods used doesn't factor into that count:
iTunes DRM-protected music includes audio with a bit rate of 128 kbps and allows users to transfer songs and videos to up to five computers, burn seven copies of the same playlist to CD, and sync to an unlimited number of iPods.
Hmmm... odd... I've got 4 machines authorized according to iTunes. I've always thought they were the two computers, the iPhone and an old iPod... but if the iPod and iPhone don't count.... apparently I've got two other machines authorized that I know nothing about.
Old computers perhaps??... I'm pretty sure they were de-authorized before I got rid of them though.
Hmmm... odd... I've got 4 machines authorized according to iTunes. I've always thought they were the two computers, the iPhone and an old iPod... but if the iPod and iPhone don't count.... apparently I've got two other machines authorized that I know nothing about.
Old computers perhaps??... I'm pretty sure they were de-authorized before I got rid of them though.
I think What Apple calls computers are actually computer accounts. So if you have more than one user account on a computer, to play FairPlay tracks, each one has to be authorized and counts against the total.
Well, since you can now authorize up to 5 computers to play your iTunes Store purchased songs (with DRM) I imagine you can just give up an authorized computer (or two) with the songs on them. If it works the way I thinks it works, purchasing an iTune Store song (with DRM) can actually results in 5 copies of those songs. All originals and all can be given away separately on an authorized computer. And the original purchaser (or anyone with access to the account) can de-authorized a computer and authorize another one if one of the computers needs to be replaced. So long as there's no more than 5 computers authorized. So up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album. Where as only one person can legally own an album purchased on a CD.
Now I'm not sure if iTune Store movies works the same way. Hell, I'm not even sure if music fron iTunes Store works this way.
Also, I believe that an unlimited number of iPods (or iPhones) can be used at the same time.
The authorization is associated with YOUR AppleID. Are you going to give away your AppleID password with the 4 "extra copies" you give away???
And if that song is transfered to an iPod through one of those authorized computers, then that iPod counts as one of the 5 authorized devices (in addition to the originating computer.)
I think What Apple calls computers are actually computer accounts. So if you have more than one user account on a computer, to play FairPlay tracks, each one has to be authorized and counts against the total.
Comments
I think he means that when you re-compress it, the quality goes down.
That would depend on the codec and bitrate as I previously mentioned. If that is a concern and space isn't then using a lossless codec is always an option.
That would depend on the codec and bitrate as I previously mentioned. If that is a concern and space isn't then using a lossless codec is always an option.
Unless it's a lossless compressor, you will lose quality. Just how much depends. But compressing an already compressed file results in artifacting that is nonlinear in nature, as the compressor knows nothing about what was already done to the file.
Even if you re-compress at 512Kbs, it will result in a fair amount of loss because of this.
I'm off to buy a Drobo !!
You're imaging things here.
It was only a month ago that I believed that, but when I saw actual tests that said otherwise, I abandoned that belief. The page I linked shows equivalent reproduction quality for the same bitrate, and it's a commonly used bitrate too. I think it's a little different when you starve the bitrate, but it's not really happening here.
Its true, the difference between 128kb AAC and 128kb MP3 is not discernible by the human ear. Its basically a marketing myth. The real difference between AAC and MP3 is that AAC is capable of carrying more than 2 channels of audio, such as 5.1 sound, which means nothing to someone listening to stereo music tracks. The real issue for sound quality is bit rate, not AAC vs MP3. That's why I encode everything at 320kb mp3.
Even if you re-compress at 512Kbs, it will result in a fair amount of loss because of this.
I've heard similar things over the years but I can't wrap my head around it as being true and have seen no testing that backs up the claims. While I agree that their will be a loss, I have doubts that it would be noticeable. And we must consider that those buying iTS music are not, by any definition, audiophiles that should really be caring about a slight loss of quality that doesn't affects their unrefined(?) ears and consumer grade HW.
...
DRM isn't the answer. To assume it's effective at stopping piracy is to be ignorant of the reality that says otherwise.
The police state that the RIAA wants, also isn't the answer.
I think these are the two options. More of one leads to less of the other.
Its true, the difference between 128kb AAC and 128kb MP3 is not discernible by the human ear. Its basically a marketing myth. The real difference between AAC and MP3 is that AAC is capable of carrying more than 2 channels of audio, such as 5.1 sound, which means nothing to someone listening to stereo music tracks. The real issue for sound quality is bit rate, not AAC vs MP3. That's why I encode everything at 320kb mp3.
I disagree. I can hear some differences, mostly in the higher frequencies. But you need a really good system, and the music itself must HAVE a good deal of strong high frequency content.
Electronic music is most susceptible to this than is much classical music.
Once you get to 256, the differences become less. At 320, it's almost impossible to tell most of the time.
I've heard similar things over the years but I can't wrap my head around it as being true and have seen no testing that backs up the claims. While I agree that their will be a loss, I have doubts that it would be noticeable. And we must consider that those buying iTS music are not, by any definition, audiophiles that should really be caring about a slight loss of quality that doesn't affects their unrefined(?) ears and consumer grade HW.
It's true. I've worked on this myself using Pro Tools and software for comparing soundwaves. You can see it when you magnify the samples.
It's very difficult to see with most music without using Fast Fourier Transforms, but then, it's obvious. The FFT separates the waveforms into their component sine waves. You can see the problems there.
How many people notice this, or even care, is something else.
But it will be interesting 10 years from now when people with iTunes libraries worth $1,000s die, get divorced, kids go off to college, etc. Today you can split the CD/DVD collection and go your separate ways. How are you going to do that with your iTunes library? iTunes DRM is easy to use, but difficult to pass on as there is no way to transfer ownership. I don't have a problem with this when it comes to music. I don't buy a whole lot on iTunes, and I figure I get my 99 cents worth through repeated listening. But start charging $14.99 per movie (at lower quality that DVD, mind you) and it starts to become an issue if I can't lend, give, or sell it to someone after I've watched it a few times.
Well, since you can now authorize up to 5 computers to play your iTunes Store purchased songs (with DRM) I imagine you can just give up an authorized computer (or two) with the songs on them. If it works the way I thinks it works, purchasing an iTune Store song (with DRM) can actually results in 5 copies of those songs. All originals and all can be given away separately on an authorized computer. And the original purchaser (or anyone with access to the account) can de-authorized a computer and authorize another one if one of the computers needs to be replaced. So long as there's no more than 5 computers authorized. So up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album. Where as only one person can legally own an album purchased on a CD.
Now I'm not sure if iTune Store movies works the same way. Hell, I'm not even sure if music fron iTunes Store works this way.
I'm unfamiliar as to how CD-RW writes a lesser quality RedBook CCDA than it does to CD-Rs. Can you explain it?
As others guessed...
Well, the post i was referring to seemed to be suggesting you could burn a FairPlay track as a music CD, then re-rip it into iTunes to have a non-DRM'd mp3/aac. In that case there would be a noticeable loss of quality.
I mentioned CD-RW because it was the expample used in the post I was responding to. The same effect would, of course, be seen on a CD-R
I don't care to keep an iTunes library full of lossless music... takes up way too much room on an 8 gig iPhone
Well, since you can now authorize up to 5 computers to play your iTunes Store purchased songs (with DRM) I imagine you can just give up an authorized computer (or two) with the songs on them. If it works the way I thinks it works, purchasing an iTune Store song (with DRM) can actually results in 5 copies of those songs. All originals and all can be given away separately on an authorized computer. And the original purchaser (or anyone with access to the account) can de-authorized a computer and authorize another one if one of the computers needs to be replaced. So long as there's no more than 5 computers authorized. So up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album. Where as only one person can legally own an album purchased on a CD.
Now I'm not sure if iTune Store movies works the same way. Hell, I'm not even sure if music fron iTunes Store works this way.
I think you've got the technical aspects right, and I think the same 5 computer limit applies to videos. However, I'm not sure about the "up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album" aspects. You can authorize the computers, but does that mean the owner of that computer "owns" the music? I haven't read the license agreement that closely (shame on me!). It's possible that the 5-computer sharing is intended and licensed for "same household" sharing (ie, you have more than one computer in your house).
Well, since you can now authorize up to 5 computers to play your iTunes Store purchased songs (with DRM) I imagine you can just give up an authorized computer (or two) with the songs on them. If it works the way I thinks it works, purchasing an iTune Store song (with DRM) can actually results in 5 copies of those songs. All originals and all can be given away separately on an authorized computer. And the original purchaser (or anyone with access to the account) can de-authorized a computer and authorize another one if one of the computers needs to be replaced. So long as there's no more than 5 computers authorized. So up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album. Where as only one person can legally own an album purchased on a CD.
Now I'm not sure if iTune Store movies works the same way. Hell, I'm not even sure if music fron iTunes Store works this way.
The authorization is associated with YOUR AppleID. Are you going to give away your AppleID password with the 4 "extra copies" you give away???
And if that song is transfered to an iPod through one of those authorized computers, then that iPod counts as one of the 5 authorized devices (in addition to the originating computer.)
I think you've got the technical aspects right, and I think the same 5 computer limit applies to videos. However, I'm not sure about the "up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album" aspects. You can authorize the computers, but does that mean the owner of that computer "owns" the music? I haven't read the license agreement that closely (shame on me!). It's possible that the 5-computer sharing is intended and licensed for "same household" sharing (ie, you have more than one computer in your house).
When I say "legally own" the music I realy meant to "legally have in your possession". If you have an authorized computer that can play the iTune purchased songs, then you are entiltled to play those songs. Right? It's not like a CD, where you can't legally own a copy that you made from a friends original CD. Whether it's on a CD media, in an MP3 player or on a computer.)
Does the same "household" includes a laptop that you gave to your kid who uses it in college, in another state? How about a computer that you use at work, but own by your company? (providing of course your company alllows you to have iTunes on it.) How about a computer in your, out of the country, vacation home? Suppose I loan one of my authorized computer to a friend, indefinately. Do I have to (or suppose to) de-authorize it so that he can't listen to my iTunes Store purchased music on it? Even if I still consider myself the owner of that computer. I can lend out any of my original CD's to a girlfriend. Can I "lend" out my iTunes Store purchased songs by just authorizing her home computer (or laptop) in my iTunes account?
The authorization is associated with YOUR AppleID. Are you going to give away your AppleID password with the 4 "extra copies" you give away???
And if that song is transfered to an iPod through one of those authorized computers, then that iPod counts as one of the 5 authorized devices (in addition to the originating computer.)
Well you don't have to give away your AppleID password in order for someone to play your iTunes purchased songs on that authorized computer. Granted the owner of that computer can not transfer it to another computer without your permission.
I don't think an iPod is consider one of your "devices". There's already 6 iPods in my household. Does this mean that I can't put an iTunes Store purchased song (with DRM) on 2 of the iPods?
Edit comment: I don't buy online music because the quailty isn't good enough. If the music is worth owning, then it's got to be good enough to play on my home stereo. Therefore I buy all my music on CD's (mainly used) and vinyl. So iTunes Store purchased songs are foreign to me.
But just out of curiosity. Can two (or more) AppleID accounts reside in the same computer? In the same iTunes library? Or is it one iTunes account per computer or per library?
Well you don't have to give away your AppleID password in order for someone to play your iTunes purchased songs on that authorized computer. Granted the owner of that computer can not transfer it to another computer without your permission.
I don't think an iPod is consider one of your "devices". There's already 6 iPods in my household. Does this mean that I can't put an iTunes Store purchased song (with DRM) on 2 of the iPods?
The number of iPods used doesn't factor into that count:
iTunes DRM-protected music includes audio with a bit rate of 128 kbps and allows users to transfer songs and videos to up to five computers, burn seven copies of the same playlist to CD, and sync to an unlimited number of iPods.
http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/...authorization/
Old computers perhaps??... I'm pretty sure they were de-authorized before I got rid of them though.
Hmmm... odd... I've got 4 machines authorized according to iTunes. I've always thought they were the two computers, the iPhone and an old iPod... but if the iPod and iPhone don't count.... apparently I've got two other machines authorized that I know nothing about.
Old computers perhaps??... I'm pretty sure they were de-authorized before I got rid of them though.
I think What Apple calls computers are actually computer accounts. So if you have more than one user account on a computer, to play FairPlay tracks, each one has to be authorized and counts against the total.
Well, since you can now authorize up to 5 computers to play your iTunes Store purchased songs (with DRM) I imagine you can just give up an authorized computer (or two) with the songs on them. If it works the way I thinks it works, purchasing an iTune Store song (with DRM) can actually results in 5 copies of those songs. All originals and all can be given away separately on an authorized computer. And the original purchaser (or anyone with access to the account) can de-authorized a computer and authorize another one if one of the computers needs to be replaced. So long as there's no more than 5 computers authorized. So up to 5 people can legally own an iTune purchased album. Where as only one person can legally own an album purchased on a CD.
Now I'm not sure if iTune Store movies works the same way. Hell, I'm not even sure if music fron iTunes Store works this way.
Also, I believe that an unlimited number of iPods (or iPhones) can be used at the same time.
The authorization is associated with YOUR AppleID. Are you going to give away your AppleID password with the 4 "extra copies" you give away???
And if that song is transfered to an iPod through one of those authorized computers, then that iPod counts as one of the 5 authorized devices (in addition to the originating computer.)
Pretty sure an unlimited number of iPods.
I think What Apple calls computers are actually computer accounts. So if you have more than one user account on a computer, to play FairPlay tracks, each one has to be authorized and counts against the total.
It's the physical computer.