dude get your tech chops in order i read the Inquirer all the time you can't expect to get all your tech news from one source (AppleInsider, which happens to be my favorite bookmarked home page) but they don't report on everything tech as you have noticed they mention them on this site.... the Inquirer has great tech news apple and non-apple..
check it out for yourself.... see ya
I read The INQ all the time as well, and while I've chided Charlie for his obvious AMD bias, the tech articles are usually very good.
The problem with them is that they take too much pride in their English schoolboy humor, which is just not very humerous, but they seem to find funny
Sorry if this has already been posted, but NVIDIA has posted a response on CNET
Quote:
Nvidia vehemently disagreed with the allegations, calling them completely untrue. The Inquirer's "initial analysis of problems with some of the older chips was already flawed," said Michael Hara, vice president, investor relations and communications at Nvidia.
The Inquirer reporter "believes high-lead bumps are bad. That's his underlying theory. It's not true," Hara said.
He continued: "When you build a device, it's the material properties and everything in combination that leads to the robustness of the design. What we call the 'material set.' It's a combination of the underfill (a kind of a glue that helps hold the chip down) and the bump together that creates that stability in that connection," he said.
Hara talked about how the original problem announced by Nvidia on July 2 was rectified. "A more robust underfill would have taken the stress off the bumps and kept that (original problem) from happening. What we did was, we just simply went to a more robust underfill. Stopped using that (previous) underfill, kept using high-lead bumps, but we changed the underfill. And now we don't see the problem."
"Intel has shipped hundreds of millions of chipsets that use the same material-set combo. We're using virtually the same materials that Intel uses in its chipsets," Hara said.
So it appears that NVIDIA is still using the same high-lead bumps that caused the original problem, but they've changed the glue. So I guess the question is, is this enough?
... funny how they got the head of investor relations to answer the question ...
Sorry if this has already been posted, but NVIDIA has posted a response on CNET
So it appears that NVIDIA is still using the same high-lead bumps that caused the original problem, but they've changed the glue. So I guess the question is, is this enough?
... funny how they got the head of investor relations to answer the question ...
Nvidia's answer is a bunch of bull.
Notice how they don't deny the lead bumps though?
What they aren't mentioning is that this "glue" is not rigid like metal is. It has give. It has more give when it gets warmer.
The chip can still move a few thousandths' of an inch relative to the board, causing the shear, or popping, that's been reported on, by several sources.
The fact that they are seeing defects in many tens or even hundreds of thousands of products, shows that they are wrong.
The $500,000,000 or so they had to put aside for customer replacements also shows that they know it's their problem.
But they still intend to pretend to the public that nothing is wrong.
What they aren't mentioning is that this "glue" is not rigid like metal is. It has give. It has more give when it gets warmer.
The chip can still move a few thousandths' of an inch relative to the board, causing the shear, or popping, that's been reported on, by several sources.
The fact that they are seeing defects in many tens or even hundreds of thousands of products, shows that they are wrong.
The $500,000,000 or so they had to put aside for customer replacements also shows that they know it's their problem.
But they still intend to pretend to the public that nothing is wrong.
Shame!
I'm inclined to agree with you (though much more calmly).
Although he is trying to weasle around it, I think he has proven that the INQ has called it right on this one.
Does the chip still use the same lead bumps? The answer is yes.
Does the glue fix it?
If it did, then NVIDIA would be using lead/new glue on the new 9300(?) chips — they're not.
I imagine what Apple will do now, is try to fix it with software. Crank up the fan until sounds like you have an airbus in front of you, and see if that keeps the defects down.
The trick is to keep the machines alive until the warranty expires; that's all you have to do.
And it is worth bearing in mind, that once these chips make it into Windows machines, then the problem will become too big for NVIDIA to ignore.
I'm inclined to agree with you (though much more calmly).
Although he is trying to weasle around it, I think he has proven that the INQ has called it right on this one.
Does the chip still use the same lead bumps? The answer is yes.
Does the glue fix it?
If it did, then NVIDIA would be using lead/new glue on the new 9300(?) chips ? they're not.
I imagine what Apple will do now, is try to fix it with software. Crank up the fan until sounds like you have an airbus in front of you, and see if that keeps the defects down.
The trick is to keep the machines alive until the warranty expires; that's all you have to do.
And it is worth bearing in mind, that once these chips make it into Windows machines, then the problem will become too big for NVIDIA to ignore.
The problem started in Windows machines!
The first machines to be affected were Hp laptops. I forget the models. but there were over 20,000 that first had the problem.
At first, Nvidia claimed that only a run of chips sent to Hp for those machines were at fault, and the problem was with one of their suppliers. Then the problem spread to Dells and others, including more Hp machines.
In fact, people were wondering why Apple's machines that used the same chips seemed to be unaffected.
I noted that Apple had lowered the speed of the GPU's by a fair amount, more than usual, for the few times they had done it in the past.
I think lowering the speed of the GPU is a bit of con, but what else can they do if they're stuck with NVIDIA?
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
There's no point harping on about the performance of the graphics, and the jaw dropping delta, if it doesn't actually work and you have to start winding back the GPU.
Surely Apple should be amending the performance charts on their website to reflect the lower performance, and refunding customers who bought the MBP based on Apples original performance claims.
I'd be pretty pissed if I had bought MBP only to have Apple sneaking in via the back door to underclock it!
Comments
dude get your tech chops in order i read the Inquirer all the time you can't expect to get all your tech news from one source (AppleInsider, which happens to be my favorite bookmarked home page) but they don't report on everything tech as you have noticed they mention them on this site.... the Inquirer has great tech news apple and non-apple..
check it out for yourself.... see ya
I read The INQ all the time as well, and while I've chided Charlie for his obvious AMD bias, the tech articles are usually very good.
The problem with them is that they take too much pride in their English schoolboy humor, which is just not very humerous, but they seem to find funny
At least they make bad jokes about everyone.
Nvidia vehemently disagreed with the allegations, calling them completely untrue. The Inquirer's "initial analysis of problems with some of the older chips was already flawed," said Michael Hara, vice president, investor relations and communications at Nvidia.
The Inquirer reporter "believes high-lead bumps are bad. That's his underlying theory. It's not true," Hara said.
He continued: "When you build a device, it's the material properties and everything in combination that leads to the robustness of the design. What we call the 'material set.' It's a combination of the underfill (a kind of a glue that helps hold the chip down) and the bump together that creates that stability in that connection," he said.
Hara talked about how the original problem announced by Nvidia on July 2 was rectified. "A more robust underfill would have taken the stress off the bumps and kept that (original problem) from happening. What we did was, we just simply went to a more robust underfill. Stopped using that (previous) underfill, kept using high-lead bumps, but we changed the underfill. And now we don't see the problem."
"Intel has shipped hundreds of millions of chipsets that use the same material-set combo. We're using virtually the same materials that Intel uses in its chipsets," Hara said.
So it appears that NVIDIA is still using the same high-lead bumps that caused the original problem, but they've changed the glue. So I guess the question is, is this enough?
... funny how they got the head of investor relations to answer the question ...
Sorry if this has already been posted, but NVIDIA has posted a response on CNET
So it appears that NVIDIA is still using the same high-lead bumps that caused the original problem, but they've changed the glue. So I guess the question is, is this enough?
... funny how they got the head of investor relations to answer the question ...
Nvidia's answer is a bunch of bull.
Notice how they don't deny the lead bumps though?
What they aren't mentioning is that this "glue" is not rigid like metal is. It has give. It has more give when it gets warmer.
The chip can still move a few thousandths' of an inch relative to the board, causing the shear, or popping, that's been reported on, by several sources.
The fact that they are seeing defects in many tens or even hundreds of thousands of products, shows that they are wrong.
The $500,000,000 or so they had to put aside for customer replacements also shows that they know it's their problem.
But they still intend to pretend to the public that nothing is wrong.
Shame!
Nvidia's answer is a bunch of bull.
Notice how they don't deny the lead bumps though?
What they aren't mentioning is that this "glue" is not rigid like metal is. It has give. It has more give when it gets warmer.
The chip can still move a few thousandths' of an inch relative to the board, causing the shear, or popping, that's been reported on, by several sources.
The fact that they are seeing defects in many tens or even hundreds of thousands of products, shows that they are wrong.
The $500,000,000 or so they had to put aside for customer replacements also shows that they know it's their problem.
But they still intend to pretend to the public that nothing is wrong.
Shame!
I'm inclined to agree with you (though much more calmly).
Although he is trying to weasle around it, I think he has proven that the INQ has called it right on this one.
Does the chip still use the same lead bumps? The answer is yes.
Does the glue fix it?
If it did, then NVIDIA would be using lead/new glue on the new 9300(?) chips — they're not.
I imagine what Apple will do now, is try to fix it with software. Crank up the fan until sounds like you have an airbus in front of you, and see if that keeps the defects down.
The trick is to keep the machines alive until the warranty expires; that's all you have to do.
And it is worth bearing in mind, that once these chips make it into Windows machines, then the problem will become too big for NVIDIA to ignore.
I'm inclined to agree with you (though much more calmly).
Although he is trying to weasle around it, I think he has proven that the INQ has called it right on this one.
Does the chip still use the same lead bumps? The answer is yes.
Does the glue fix it?
If it did, then NVIDIA would be using lead/new glue on the new 9300(?) chips ? they're not.
I imagine what Apple will do now, is try to fix it with software. Crank up the fan until sounds like you have an airbus in front of you, and see if that keeps the defects down.
The trick is to keep the machines alive until the warranty expires; that's all you have to do.
And it is worth bearing in mind, that once these chips make it into Windows machines, then the problem will become too big for NVIDIA to ignore.
The problem started in Windows machines!
The first machines to be affected were Hp laptops. I forget the models. but there were over 20,000 that first had the problem.
At first, Nvidia claimed that only a run of chips sent to Hp for those machines were at fault, and the problem was with one of their suppliers. Then the problem spread to Dells and others, including more Hp machines.
In fact, people were wondering why Apple's machines that used the same chips seemed to be unaffected.
I noted that Apple had lowered the speed of the GPU's by a fair amount, more than usual, for the few times they had done it in the past.
I think lowering the speed of the GPU is a bit of con, but what else can they do if they're stuck with NVIDIA?
I think I'll hold off on the MBP purchase until this blows over ....
I was referring to the chips with the new glue. Are these already causing problems with Windows machines?
I think lowering the speed of the GPU is a bit of con, but what else can they do if they're stuck with NVIDIA?
I think I'll hold off on the MBP purchase until this blows over ....
The "new" chips available retail and, I assume somewhat before to OEM's, is supposed to have dropped the lead for tin.
I can't imagine anything else happening.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_chip
Yup, that's it, pretty much.
I think lowering the speed of the GPU is a bit of con, but what else can they do if they're stuck with NVIDIA?
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
There's no point harping on about the performance of the graphics, and the jaw dropping delta, if it doesn't actually work and you have to start winding back the GPU.
Surely Apple should be amending the performance charts on their website to reflect the lower performance, and refunding customers who bought the MBP based on Apples original performance claims.
I'd be pretty pissed if I had bought MBP only to have Apple sneaking in via the back door to underclock it!
Does anyone know if this problem is now solved? Are NVidia still using lead-based solder, or have they changed it?
I'm about to buy a MBP 15", and it would feel a lot better to know that it won't break down due to some problem known for a long time.