The iPhone/iPod Touch are really more of a PSP competitor than a DS.
Not in the slightest. The DS is more focussed on casual games (that tend to use the touch screen) than the PSP, which usually goes the more traditional/hardcore route. Have a look at the app store, the vast majority of the games on offer are extremely shallow and casual.
That said, at least the DS actually has a control pad and some buttons, so when it wants to do a traditional game it still can do.
Not in the slightest. The DS is more focussed on casual games (that tend to use the touch screen) than the PSP, which usually goes the more traditional/hardcore route. Have a look at the app store, the vast majority of the games on offer are extremely shallow and casual.
That said, at least the DS actually has a control pad and some buttons, so when it wants to do a traditional game it still can do.
Pokemon isn't exactly hard core, yet it is one of their biggest sellers.
I could be a great visionary and get her a Touch or a PSP and spout of about new eras, being original and not following the herd, but she would just cry her eyes out and hate me for it.
No offense, but the PSP is the non-original here. While it has a few innovative games, Nintendo's system is, by definition, original - look at its layout and input devices. And while there's plenty of garbage, there are *so* many good and innovative games that take advantage of its unique properties that it's overwhelming at times. Nintendo didn't follow the herd here. If they did, we'd be playing whatever the next iteration of the GameBoy Advance is, and I bet it'd be close to what the PSP currently is.
I chose those games specifically to show how the supposed obstacle of not having a d-pad/ joystick and buttons has been addressed by Gameloft, the games are quite playable, the graphics are stunning.
Graphics do not make a game, Everyone knows this. If it were true, the PSP and PS3 would be dominating the DS (not even close) and the Wii would be completely gone by now. Hmmm... now how's it going right now? Sure, graphics bring the appeal, but the long term enjoyment comes DIRECTLY from gameplay, and Nintendo knows how to get that going like few others in the industry.
As to the d-pad and buttons, I wasn't impressed. Tactile feedback is INCREDIBLY important for precise moves; what I saw there was general button mashing and vague movements done by the onscreen character. Again, ok for casual gaming, but in the face of the DS and PSP, it just looks ridiculous, and anyone with those systems wouldn't pay a dime for such shoddy controls.
Pokemon isn't exactly hard core, yet it is one of their biggest sellers.
And how exactly is that contradictory to what he said?
PSP == traditional/hardcore crowd
DS == aims for the casual crowd but also has games the hardcore want.
Pokemon is on the DS. Not to mention that if you knew anything about Pokemon, the game mechanics are much deeper than most people assume from face value (and much deeper than touch/iphone games, with the exception of things like Chess and all that).
the App Store has really made a difference here. How Apple made it so easy for people to download apps, specially games.
The presence of the App Store but the absence of of Brick and Mortar software shops is even better.
Selling a PSP or DS title through a shop takes about 50% revenue away from the game's publishers and developers. This doubles the retail price and often takes it above an impulse purchase level.
The second problem is shelf space. Retaillers only want to stock lines that sell in big quantities. So they clear the shelves of older stock and push newer and more profitable lines. Perfectly good older titles are disappeared.
Then there is the pre-owned market, which allows retailers to make their money again. But of course no cash gets back to the game developers or publishers.
The games industry can't wait to move everything 100% electronic distribution and cut out these very expensive middle men.
Graphics do not make a game, Everyone knows this. If it were true, the PSP and PS3 would be dominating the DS (not even close) and the Wii would be completely gone by now. Hmmm... now how's it going right now? Sure, graphics bring the appeal, but the long term enjoyment comes DIRECTLY from gameplay, and Nintendo knows how to get that going like few others in the industry.
As to the d-pad and buttons, I wasn't impressed. Tactile feedback is INCREDIBLY important for precise moves; what I saw there was general button mashing and vague movements done by the onscreen character. Again, ok for casual gaming, but in the face of the DS and PSP, it just looks ridiculous, and anyone with those systems wouldn't pay a dime for such shoddy controls.
The WII is for casual games, it is doing quite well.
The DS is for casual games, it dominates.
The games for the iPhone are too casual...
Is there a pattern emerging here?
So let's wait for some numbers and see how that translates into revenue, I think a lot of people will be surprised.
Edit:-
Could EA have hit upon the "killer app"?
Sim city has just been released, from reports I've seen so far it isn't much different to Sim city 3000 from the PC
As to the d-pad and buttons, I wasn't impressed. Tactile feedback is INCREDIBLY important for precise moves; what I saw there was general button mashing and vague movements done by the onscreen character. Again, ok for casual gaming, but in the face of the DS and PSP, it just looks ridiculous, and anyone with those systems wouldn't pay a dime for such shoddy controls.
The iPhone and iPodTouch lack mashable tactile buttons, which rules out certain classes of gameplay. And yeah - taking old games and mapping buttons to on-screen touch controls is lame.
But.. and it's a big but.
The DS does not have a huge multi-touch screen. There are new classes of game that can be created on the iPhone that would not be possible on the DS or the PSP.
Successful games on the iPhone need developers to draw on its unique features and make use of them. To do this means rethinking the game's control method entirely.
The WII is for casual games, it is doing quite well.
The DS is for casual games, it dominates.
The games for the iPhone are too casual...
Is there a pattern emerging here?
So let's wait for some numbers and see how that translates into revenue, I think a lot of people will be surprised.
Edit:-
Could EA have hit upon the "killer app"?
Sim city has just been released, from reports I've seen so far it isn't much different to Sim city 3000 from the PC
You need to follow threads much more carefully. To break it down:
The PSP does well because it's got a good library of traditionally appealing games to gamers.
DS dominates because it's casual, but brings the gameplay and has the controls to support a wide range of games, from casual to hardcore.
The iPhone/touch doesn't have very good controls for gameplay beyond basic games... so far. As the Wii has shown, there is plenty of room for innovation. Unfortunately, there is nothing to suggest that the innovation has arrived, as the "best" game presented to far (Heroes of Sparta) is a traditional, side scroller with messy controls that does nothing innovative with the strengths of the platform. Graphics are a given, but do not make a good game.
The iPhone is an ok platform for casual gamers; good for it, more power to the platform. Will it unseat the DS? For the near future, no way; it's not even a contest. For the next few years, *maybe* the iPhone will move to a point where it *could* become a concern for Nintendo, but that would require much more innovation than the current crop of games shows; Heroes of Sparta? Not it. SimCity? Please. Wake me up when they get something like Lumines/Meteos - simple, straightforward games that anyone can play, and sold TRUCKLOADS for the PSP and DS.
Actually "Hero of Sparta" is 3D as can be clearly seen when the virtual joystick and buttons are successfully "mashed" to pull off the special moves, where the camera zooms into a close up of sword wielding action, of course if you'd actually played the game you would know this.
A lot of people do not have the time to play "hard core" games or spend hundreds of dollars on consoles and games.
This is why casual games are so successful, something that doesn't cost much, that you can have some fun killing short periods of time with, that is easily and readily available and that give you plenty of variety..
Enter the iPhone which has these features in spades.
Actually "Hero of Sparta" is 3D as can be clearly seen when the virtual joystick and buttons are successfully "mashed" to pull off the special moves, where the camera zooms into a close up of sword wielding action, of course if you'd actually played the game you would know this.
A lot of people do not have the time to play "hard core" games or spend hundreds of dollars on consoles and games.
This is why casual games are so successful, something that doesn't cost much, that you can have some fun killing short periods of time with, that is easily and readily available and that give you plenty of variety..
Enter the iPhone which has these features in spades.
Um, you don't really know what a modern side scroller is, do you (hint: 2d design can easily incorporate 3d models)? And at which point did I say casual games are not important? If you'll notice, I clearly place the success of the DS and the Wii on that exact premise multiple times. Please read more carefully.
At this point in time, the iPhone has mediocre games which grow old quickly. There is a difference between straightforward, simple games which have incredible depth and can be played casually (Meteos, Lumines), and repetitive, cookie cutter games which grow stale after a few minutes of play. The iPhone does NOT have the former in spades, and has the latter everywhere (aka shovelware). For an example of what needs to be done on the iPhone to realize its full potential, play something like LocoRoco. If and when these games start appearing, you can start counting it as some kind of mobile gaming competitor. Until then, it's just a cellphone-level gaming system and will be relegated as such.
Well tell that to the people who are downloading millions of games every day, the thousands of developers who are working on games, the big games publishers who are entering the App store.
This is big money business I think your personal opinions are irrellevant.
Rolando another game has been released, every day I am given more examples to refute your negativity.
Remember this the most played game ever on any platform is probably solitaire on Windows PC's.
Until then, it's just a cellphone-level gaming system and will be relegated as such.
As a games developer, I have to disagree.
The gaming potential of the iPhone platform is huge.
In terms of the market, the number of units out there is already impressive.
Including iPod Touch, we are heading for 20 million units?
The PSP is at 44 million and that took 4 years.
The commercial model for iPhone is really good for developers - and is starting to attract some big players. With Konami announcing Metal Gear Solid this week. PSP development is expensive, and you might have noticed that new titles have dried up.
In terms of software...
The iPhone SDK is remarkable and lets developers get games running really quickly. The PSP and DS are both quirky machines to develop for.
In terms of the hardware...
The CPU is stronger than the PSP or the DS
the GPU is better than the PSP or the DS.
The Screen has a higher resolution than the PSP (and about the same size)
The control method is where it gets interesting.
PSP - Buttons, Joystick and Tilt
DS - Buttons & Stylus
iPHone - Tilt and Multitouch screen.
The lack of buttons is a problem if you want an old style title that is reliant on button mashing.
But multi-touch is a *better* control method for games that require exploration and direct manipulation. I don't think we have scratched the surface yet in terms of how this can be exploited.
Just like the Wii - games have to be designed with this in mind. Simply mapping button mashers to virtual buttons is lame. But multi-touch opens up entirely new interaction possibilities which are utterly impossible on the DS or PSP.
Well tell that to the people who are downloading millions of games every day, the thousands of developers who are working on games, the big games publishers who are entering the App store.
This is big money business I think your personal opinions are irrellevant.
Rolando another game has been released, every day I am given more examples to refute your negativity.
Remember this the most played game ever on any platform is probably solitaire on Windows PC's.
Really? What's innovative about Rolando? What will make this game sell through the roof? What about it will make people BUY iPhones and touches (like the best games do for the PSP and the DS)? What about this game promotes depth of gameplay beyond a few minutes?
You and carniphage seem to NOT read anything I post. Nowhere did I say the iPhone can't be a competitor. Nowhere did I say Apple and developers can't make money doing it. I'm just telling you that at this point in time and in the very near future, it's not even close to knocking the DS or PSP from it perch (let alone out of the game), and you can't refute that - for the iPhone to even begin taking over Nintendo's dominance would require the complete and total involvement of Apple to court existing publishers to bring over HUGE franchises over (not just dumping on shovelware *cough* Supermonkeyball *cough* SimCity), while simultaneously enticing more grassroots and indie developers to get on the ball. *ALL* Nintendo portable competitors have failed to this point, and only one has managed to just barely hang on - Sony, with their PSP. None of this opinion - it's hard cold fact. The fact that the iPhone can play games is a nice value add to the iPhone and its great positioning to facilitate casual gameplay gives it a nice bonus, but it's like saying, "Hey, these are nice waves!" at the beach while in the shadow of a gigantic tidal wave just beyond it all. There is another way to market dominance though (I'll talk about that last).
I don't think you can underestimate Nintendo's dominance in all of this; their hold over the portable gaming market (and the normal console market, to a lesser degree), is bigger than the difference between Apple and Microsoft, but unlike MS, Nintendo is actually consistently on the ball with its market.
Oh and by the way? The solitaire reference is an old and tired argument that's always trotted out. It's #1 because Windows is on the most desktops. End of story. The iPhone and touch would be the #1 game's console if everyone had one as well. Could it happen? Sure, look how ubiquitous the iPod is in all its forms at the moment. *THAT'S* how Apple could grab the market - you've already got one, hell, put some games on there. Casual gaming is a GIGANTIC business, and even if Apple doesn't get the huge games on the system, it will, by mere default, have a huge impact. RIght now though? Not even close.
The gaming potential of the iPhone platform is huge.
In terms of the market, the number of units out there is already impressive.
Including iPod Touch, we are heading for 20 million units?
The PSP is at 44 million and that took 4 years.
The commercial model for iPhone is really good for developers - and is starting to attract some big players. With Konami announcing Metal Gear Solid this week. PSP development is expensive, and you might have noticed that new titles have dried up.
In terms of software...
The iPhone SDK is remarkable and lets developers get games running really quickly. The PSP and DS are both quirky machines to develop for.
In terms of the hardware...
The CPU is stronger than the PSP or the DS
the GPU is better than the PSP or the DS.
The Screen has a higher resolution than the PSP (and about the same size)
The control method is where it gets interesting.
PSP - Buttons, Joystick and Tilt
DS - Buttons & Stylus
iPHone - Tilt and Multitouch screen.
The lack of buttons is a problem if you want an old style title that is reliant on button mashing.
But multi-touch is a *better* control method for games that require exploration and direct manipulation. I don't think we have scratched the surface yet in terms of how this can be exploited.
Just like the Wii - games have to be designed with this in mind. Simply mapping button mashers to virtual buttons is lame. But multi-touch opens up entirely new interaction possibilities which are utterly impossible on the DS or PSP.
C.
Oh and I already mentioned all this before (the ultimate lack of importance of graphics, the interface issues, the analogy to the Wii) and I basically agree with y ou on all points. So I'm not sure what you're pointing out here.
The lack of buttons is a problem if you want an old style title that is reliant on button mashing.
But multi-touch is a *better* control method for games that require exploration and direct manipulation. I don't think we have scratched the surface yet in terms of how this can be exploited.
I don't doubt that there are novel ways to take advantage of that kind of input, but this kind of argument doesn't really address all the potential drawbacks. I wonder if tilting is a sustainable model, people don't get dizzy when their screen tilts with the control when tilting is fundemental to the operation of the game? It's fine for slow games, but fast ones? Ouch.
Multitouch - you have to cover much of the screen to use it. Not what I would call ideal. Either something else can happen under your fingers when you're performing an action or you cut away screen real estate to accommodate for that.
Also, the responsiveness doesn't seem to be up to par, there always seems to be a processing lag when dealing with those inputs. Buttons are generally faster.
I don't think it's a huge concern though, iPhone games don't have to target the handheld game system market to be very successful.
So what's the DS bundled game for this Christmas period?
What is the "must buy" game for PSP at the moment?
How many people know or care?
Curious iPhone and Touch owners just push the App store button, the "funnest iPod ever" is here.
Anyway I'm sick of dealing with your petty complaints, every time I address one of your supposed "issues" you bring up something else, examples of controls that don't cover the screen you attempt to sidetrack into the storyline of the game or that the controls are not "tactile".
I'll leave you with one more example, the steering wheel on Asphalt 4 (one of the three input methods players can choose to use with this game) does not use up all the screen real estate at all.
We haven't even touched upon the audio quality and soundscapes available with the Apple platform which is quite obvious, especially through stereo headphones.
So what's the DS bundled game for this Christmas period?
What is the "must buy" game for PSP at the moment?
How many people know or care?
Clearly, you don't get it, which is why you keep arguing tangentially at best. Who cares what the DS is bundled with right now? Most of the time, a bundled game is a bonus, but most of the time it's not what people are getting the system for, just like people don't get Windows for Solitaire. You don't get an iPhone for any of the games in the app store either. What makes the DS and PSP sell is that there are games people WANT with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Curious iPhone and Touch owners just push the App store button, the "funnest iPod ever" is here.
And... what does this mean exactly? What does this have to do with anything I've said, or refute any argument I've made? Good on Apple for finding a convenient delivery method.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Anyway I'm sick of dealing with your petty complaints, every time I address one of your supposed "issues" you bring up something else, examples of controls that don't cover the screen you attempt to sidetrack into the storyline of the game or that the controls are not "tactile".
You haven't addressed one issue. My issues are 1) lack of innovation in any games, aka shovelware 2) the complete dominance of Nintendo and to a lesser extent Sony in terms of access to well heeled developers and properties (which includes gameplay) and 3) identify any kind of concrete way in which Apple COULD push and shove their way into the handheld market - I'VE been the one actually putting ways Apple could do that, not you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
I'll leave you with one more example, the steering wheel on Asphalt 4 (one of the three input methods players can choose to use with this game) does not use up all the screen real estate at all.
Why do you keep throwing up these examples that are just more examples of shovelware? They don't mean anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
We haven't even touched upon the audio quality and soundscapes available with the Apple platform which is quite obvious, especially through stereo headphones.
This is the core of the problem of all your arguments right here; at the end of the day, you can the most killer soundtrack and the most eye burning visuals EVER in a game, but if you don't BRING THE GAMEPLAY, you've got nothing. This applies across the board from simple casual games to "hardcore" crowd pleasing games. Garbage in, garbage out.
When *you* can address any of those points I've iterated many times over and finally stated for you in clear format, we can move forward, otherwise, the fact still stands that the iPhone/touch is a glorified cell-phone gaming environment with the potential to be more.
The Screen has a higher resolution than the PSP (and about the same size)
The lack of buttons is a problem if you want an old style title that is reliant on button mashing.
I'm pretty sure the iphone is weaker than the PSP overall.
The DS is only 256 x 192, which is close to 1/3 of the PSP screen so they can downscale textures and overall scenes quite a bit. They have to really as the DS only has a fill rate of 30 million pixels/sec compared to the PSP's 664 million/sec. The iphone can do about 300 million/sec max.
The PSP can do more complex scenes (33 million polys/sec - about the same as a PS2), iphone (3.7 million), DS (120k, which is why the DS games are mainly 2D side scrollers).
So far, I've seen PSone level graphics on the iphone and no better. I guess Dreamcast is the more accurate comparison but they were pretty close visually. PSP games look incredible by comparison and almost identical to a PS2.
The fast CPU and higher amounts of Ram mean the iphone can do the same level of physics but it can't push the polys to screen fast enough. The more graphically advanced games like Hero of Sparta still don't look as good as God of War on the PSP and still lag severely during gameplay.
I will say that iphone games load very quickly, which is great but they need to optimize the graphics processing a lot to get close to PSP quality.
Regarding tactile controls, it's not just for button mashing, they are much easier to control. The touch screen isn't that accurate and it misinterprets touches quite a bit. Enough to make you lose the type of games that require fast and accurate input.
I do think it has the potential to be a popular gaming platform, it just needs to be refined. Even after that process, I still think it will fall short of the PSP but hopefully the developer interest and distribution model will give it an advantage over the PSP - a large enough games catalog to be worthwhile.
Comments
The iPhone/iPod Touch are really more of a PSP competitor than a DS.
Not in the slightest. The DS is more focussed on casual games (that tend to use the touch screen) than the PSP, which usually goes the more traditional/hardcore route. Have a look at the app store, the vast majority of the games on offer are extremely shallow and casual.
That said, at least the DS actually has a control pad and some buttons, so when it wants to do a traditional game it still can do.
Not in the slightest. The DS is more focussed on casual games (that tend to use the touch screen) than the PSP, which usually goes the more traditional/hardcore route. Have a look at the app store, the vast majority of the games on offer are extremely shallow and casual.
That said, at least the DS actually has a control pad and some buttons, so when it wants to do a traditional game it still can do.
Pokemon isn't exactly hard core, yet it is one of their biggest sellers.
I could be a great visionary and get her a Touch or a PSP and spout of about new eras, being original and not following the herd, but she would just cry her eyes out and hate me for it.
No offense, but the PSP is the non-original here. While it has a few innovative games, Nintendo's system is, by definition, original - look at its layout and input devices. And while there's plenty of garbage, there are *so* many good and innovative games that take advantage of its unique properties that it's overwhelming at times. Nintendo didn't follow the herd here. If they did, we'd be playing whatever the next iteration of the GameBoy Advance is, and I bet it'd be close to what the PSP currently is.
I chose those games specifically to show how the supposed obstacle of not having a d-pad/ joystick and buttons has been addressed by Gameloft, the games are quite playable, the graphics are stunning.
Graphics do not make a game, Everyone knows this. If it were true, the PSP and PS3 would be dominating the DS (not even close) and the Wii would be completely gone by now. Hmmm... now how's it going right now? Sure, graphics bring the appeal, but the long term enjoyment comes DIRECTLY from gameplay, and Nintendo knows how to get that going like few others in the industry.
As to the d-pad and buttons, I wasn't impressed. Tactile feedback is INCREDIBLY important for precise moves; what I saw there was general button mashing and vague movements done by the onscreen character. Again, ok for casual gaming, but in the face of the DS and PSP, it just looks ridiculous, and anyone with those systems wouldn't pay a dime for such shoddy controls.
Pokemon isn't exactly hard core, yet it is one of their biggest sellers.
And how exactly is that contradictory to what he said?
PSP == traditional/hardcore crowd
DS == aims for the casual crowd but also has games the hardcore want.
Pokemon is on the DS. Not to mention that if you knew anything about Pokemon, the game mechanics are much deeper than most people assume from face value (and much deeper than touch/iphone games, with the exception of things like Chess and all that).
the App Store has really made a difference here. How Apple made it so easy for people to download apps, specially games.
The presence of the App Store but the absence of of Brick and Mortar software shops is even better.
Selling a PSP or DS title through a shop takes about 50% revenue away from the game's publishers and developers. This doubles the retail price and often takes it above an impulse purchase level.
The second problem is shelf space. Retaillers only want to stock lines that sell in big quantities. So they clear the shelves of older stock and push newer and more profitable lines. Perfectly good older titles are disappeared.
Then there is the pre-owned market, which allows retailers to make their money again. But of course no cash gets back to the game developers or publishers.
The games industry can't wait to move everything 100% electronic distribution and cut out these very expensive middle men.
C.
Graphics do not make a game, Everyone knows this. If it were true, the PSP and PS3 would be dominating the DS (not even close) and the Wii would be completely gone by now. Hmmm... now how's it going right now? Sure, graphics bring the appeal, but the long term enjoyment comes DIRECTLY from gameplay, and Nintendo knows how to get that going like few others in the industry.
As to the d-pad and buttons, I wasn't impressed. Tactile feedback is INCREDIBLY important for precise moves; what I saw there was general button mashing and vague movements done by the onscreen character. Again, ok for casual gaming, but in the face of the DS and PSP, it just looks ridiculous, and anyone with those systems wouldn't pay a dime for such shoddy controls.
The WII is for casual games, it is doing quite well.
The DS is for casual games, it dominates.
The games for the iPhone are too casual...
Is there a pattern emerging here?
So let's wait for some numbers and see how that translates into revenue, I think a lot of people will be surprised.
Edit:-
Could EA have hit upon the "killer app"?
Sim city has just been released, from reports I've seen so far it isn't much different to Sim city 3000 from the PC
As to the d-pad and buttons, I wasn't impressed. Tactile feedback is INCREDIBLY important for precise moves; what I saw there was general button mashing and vague movements done by the onscreen character. Again, ok for casual gaming, but in the face of the DS and PSP, it just looks ridiculous, and anyone with those systems wouldn't pay a dime for such shoddy controls.
The iPhone and iPodTouch lack mashable tactile buttons, which rules out certain classes of gameplay. And yeah - taking old games and mapping buttons to on-screen touch controls is lame.
But.. and it's a big but.
The DS does not have a huge multi-touch screen. There are new classes of game that can be created on the iPhone that would not be possible on the DS or the PSP.
Successful games on the iPhone need developers to draw on its unique features and make use of them. To do this means rethinking the game's control method entirely.
C.
The WII is for casual games, it is doing quite well.
The DS is for casual games, it dominates.
The games for the iPhone are too casual...
Is there a pattern emerging here?
So let's wait for some numbers and see how that translates into revenue, I think a lot of people will be surprised.
Edit:-
Could EA have hit upon the "killer app"?
Sim city has just been released, from reports I've seen so far it isn't much different to Sim city 3000 from the PC
You need to follow threads much more carefully. To break it down:
The PSP does well because it's got a good library of traditionally appealing games to gamers.
DS dominates because it's casual, but brings the gameplay and has the controls to support a wide range of games, from casual to hardcore.
The iPhone/touch doesn't have very good controls for gameplay beyond basic games... so far. As the Wii has shown, there is plenty of room for innovation. Unfortunately, there is nothing to suggest that the innovation has arrived, as the "best" game presented to far (Heroes of Sparta) is a traditional, side scroller with messy controls that does nothing innovative with the strengths of the platform. Graphics are a given, but do not make a good game.
The iPhone is an ok platform for casual gamers; good for it, more power to the platform. Will it unseat the DS? For the near future, no way; it's not even a contest. For the next few years, *maybe* the iPhone will move to a point where it *could* become a concern for Nintendo, but that would require much more innovation than the current crop of games shows; Heroes of Sparta? Not it. SimCity? Please. Wake me up when they get something like Lumines/Meteos - simple, straightforward games that anyone can play, and sold TRUCKLOADS for the PSP and DS.
A lot of people do not have the time to play "hard core" games or spend hundreds of dollars on consoles and games.
This is why casual games are so successful, something that doesn't cost much, that you can have some fun killing short periods of time with, that is easily and readily available and that give you plenty of variety..
Enter the iPhone which has these features in spades.
Actually "Hero of Sparta" is 3D as can be clearly seen when the virtual joystick and buttons are successfully "mashed" to pull off the special moves, where the camera zooms into a close up of sword wielding action, of course if you'd actually played the game you would know this.
A lot of people do not have the time to play "hard core" games or spend hundreds of dollars on consoles and games.
This is why casual games are so successful, something that doesn't cost much, that you can have some fun killing short periods of time with, that is easily and readily available and that give you plenty of variety..
Enter the iPhone which has these features in spades.
Um, you don't really know what a modern side scroller is, do you (hint: 2d design can easily incorporate 3d models)? And at which point did I say casual games are not important? If you'll notice, I clearly place the success of the DS and the Wii on that exact premise multiple times. Please read more carefully.
At this point in time, the iPhone has mediocre games which grow old quickly. There is a difference between straightforward, simple games which have incredible depth and can be played casually (Meteos, Lumines), and repetitive, cookie cutter games which grow stale after a few minutes of play. The iPhone does NOT have the former in spades, and has the latter everywhere (aka shovelware). For an example of what needs to be done on the iPhone to realize its full potential, play something like LocoRoco. If and when these games start appearing, you can start counting it as some kind of mobile gaming competitor. Until then, it's just a cellphone-level gaming system and will be relegated as such.
This is big money business I think your personal opinions are irrellevant.
Rolando another game has been released, every day I am given more examples to refute your negativity.
Remember this the most played game ever on any platform is probably solitaire on Windows PC's.
Until then, it's just a cellphone-level gaming system and will be relegated as such.
As a games developer, I have to disagree.
The gaming potential of the iPhone platform is huge.
In terms of the market, the number of units out there is already impressive.
Including iPod Touch, we are heading for 20 million units?
The PSP is at 44 million and that took 4 years.
The commercial model for iPhone is really good for developers - and is starting to attract some big players. With Konami announcing Metal Gear Solid this week. PSP development is expensive, and you might have noticed that new titles have dried up.
In terms of software...
The iPhone SDK is remarkable and lets developers get games running really quickly. The PSP and DS are both quirky machines to develop for.
In terms of the hardware...
The CPU is stronger than the PSP or the DS
the GPU is better than the PSP or the DS.
The Screen has a higher resolution than the PSP (and about the same size)
The control method is where it gets interesting.
PSP - Buttons, Joystick and Tilt
DS - Buttons & Stylus
iPHone - Tilt and Multitouch screen.
The lack of buttons is a problem if you want an old style title that is reliant on button mashing.
But multi-touch is a *better* control method for games that require exploration and direct manipulation. I don't think we have scratched the surface yet in terms of how this can be exploited.
Just like the Wii - games have to be designed with this in mind. Simply mapping button mashers to virtual buttons is lame. But multi-touch opens up entirely new interaction possibilities which are utterly impossible on the DS or PSP.
C.
Well tell that to the people who are downloading millions of games every day, the thousands of developers who are working on games, the big games publishers who are entering the App store.
This is big money business I think your personal opinions are irrellevant.
Rolando another game has been released, every day I am given more examples to refute your negativity.
Remember this the most played game ever on any platform is probably solitaire on Windows PC's.
Really? What's innovative about Rolando? What will make this game sell through the roof? What about it will make people BUY iPhones and touches (like the best games do for the PSP and the DS)? What about this game promotes depth of gameplay beyond a few minutes?
You and carniphage seem to NOT read anything I post. Nowhere did I say the iPhone can't be a competitor. Nowhere did I say Apple and developers can't make money doing it. I'm just telling you that at this point in time and in the very near future, it's not even close to knocking the DS or PSP from it perch (let alone out of the game), and you can't refute that - for the iPhone to even begin taking over Nintendo's dominance would require the complete and total involvement of Apple to court existing publishers to bring over HUGE franchises over (not just dumping on shovelware *cough* Supermonkeyball *cough* SimCity), while simultaneously enticing more grassroots and indie developers to get on the ball. *ALL* Nintendo portable competitors have failed to this point, and only one has managed to just barely hang on - Sony, with their PSP. None of this opinion - it's hard cold fact. The fact that the iPhone can play games is a nice value add to the iPhone and its great positioning to facilitate casual gameplay gives it a nice bonus, but it's like saying, "Hey, these are nice waves!" at the beach while in the shadow of a gigantic tidal wave just beyond it all. There is another way to market dominance though (I'll talk about that last).
I don't think you can underestimate Nintendo's dominance in all of this; their hold over the portable gaming market (and the normal console market, to a lesser degree), is bigger than the difference between Apple and Microsoft, but unlike MS, Nintendo is actually consistently on the ball with its market.
Oh and by the way? The solitaire reference is an old and tired argument that's always trotted out. It's #1 because Windows is on the most desktops. End of story. The iPhone and touch would be the #1 game's console if everyone had one as well. Could it happen? Sure, look how ubiquitous the iPod is in all its forms at the moment. *THAT'S* how Apple could grab the market - you've already got one, hell, put some games on there. Casual gaming is a GIGANTIC business, and even if Apple doesn't get the huge games on the system, it will, by mere default, have a huge impact. RIght now though? Not even close.
As a games developer, I have to disagree.
The gaming potential of the iPhone platform is huge.
In terms of the market, the number of units out there is already impressive.
Including iPod Touch, we are heading for 20 million units?
The PSP is at 44 million and that took 4 years.
The commercial model for iPhone is really good for developers - and is starting to attract some big players. With Konami announcing Metal Gear Solid this week. PSP development is expensive, and you might have noticed that new titles have dried up.
In terms of software...
The iPhone SDK is remarkable and lets developers get games running really quickly. The PSP and DS are both quirky machines to develop for.
In terms of the hardware...
The CPU is stronger than the PSP or the DS
the GPU is better than the PSP or the DS.
The Screen has a higher resolution than the PSP (and about the same size)
The control method is where it gets interesting.
PSP - Buttons, Joystick and Tilt
DS - Buttons & Stylus
iPHone - Tilt and Multitouch screen.
The lack of buttons is a problem if you want an old style title that is reliant on button mashing.
But multi-touch is a *better* control method for games that require exploration and direct manipulation. I don't think we have scratched the surface yet in terms of how this can be exploited.
Just like the Wii - games have to be designed with this in mind. Simply mapping button mashers to virtual buttons is lame. But multi-touch opens up entirely new interaction possibilities which are utterly impossible on the DS or PSP.
C.
Oh and I already mentioned all this before (the ultimate lack of importance of graphics, the interface issues, the analogy to the Wii) and I basically agree with y ou on all points. So I'm not sure what you're pointing out here.
The control method is where it gets interesting.
PSP - Buttons, Joystick and Tilt
DS - Buttons & Stylus
iPHone - Tilt and Multitouch screen.
The lack of buttons is a problem if you want an old style title that is reliant on button mashing.
But multi-touch is a *better* control method for games that require exploration and direct manipulation. I don't think we have scratched the surface yet in terms of how this can be exploited.
I don't doubt that there are novel ways to take advantage of that kind of input, but this kind of argument doesn't really address all the potential drawbacks. I wonder if tilting is a sustainable model, people don't get dizzy when their screen tilts with the control when tilting is fundemental to the operation of the game? It's fine for slow games, but fast ones? Ouch.
Multitouch - you have to cover much of the screen to use it. Not what I would call ideal. Either something else can happen under your fingers when you're performing an action or you cut away screen real estate to accommodate for that.
Also, the responsiveness doesn't seem to be up to par, there always seems to be a processing lag when dealing with those inputs. Buttons are generally faster.
I don't think it's a huge concern though, iPhone games don't have to target the handheld game system market to be very successful.
What is the "must buy" game for PSP at the moment?
How many people know or care?
Curious iPhone and Touch owners just push the App store button, the "funnest iPod ever" is here.
Anyway I'm sick of dealing with your petty complaints, every time I address one of your supposed "issues" you bring up something else, examples of controls that don't cover the screen you attempt to sidetrack into the storyline of the game or that the controls are not "tactile".
I'll leave you with one more example, the steering wheel on Asphalt 4 (one of the three input methods players can choose to use with this game) does not use up all the screen real estate at all.
We haven't even touched upon the audio quality and soundscapes available with the Apple platform which is quite obvious, especially through stereo headphones.
So what's the DS bundled game for this Christmas period?
What is the "must buy" game for PSP at the moment?
How many people know or care?
Clearly, you don't get it, which is why you keep arguing tangentially at best. Who cares what the DS is bundled with right now? Most of the time, a bundled game is a bonus, but most of the time it's not what people are getting the system for, just like people don't get Windows for Solitaire. You don't get an iPhone for any of the games in the app store either. What makes the DS and PSP sell is that there are games people WANT with it.
Curious iPhone and Touch owners just push the App store button, the "funnest iPod ever" is here.
And... what does this mean exactly? What does this have to do with anything I've said, or refute any argument I've made? Good on Apple for finding a convenient delivery method.
Anyway I'm sick of dealing with your petty complaints, every time I address one of your supposed "issues" you bring up something else, examples of controls that don't cover the screen you attempt to sidetrack into the storyline of the game or that the controls are not "tactile".
You haven't addressed one issue. My issues are 1) lack of innovation in any games, aka shovelware 2) the complete dominance of Nintendo and to a lesser extent Sony in terms of access to well heeled developers and properties (which includes gameplay) and 3) identify any kind of concrete way in which Apple COULD push and shove their way into the handheld market - I'VE been the one actually putting ways Apple could do that, not you.
I'll leave you with one more example, the steering wheel on Asphalt 4 (one of the three input methods players can choose to use with this game) does not use up all the screen real estate at all.
Why do you keep throwing up these examples that are just more examples of shovelware? They don't mean anything.
We haven't even touched upon the audio quality and soundscapes available with the Apple platform which is quite obvious, especially through stereo headphones.
This is the core of the problem of all your arguments right here; at the end of the day, you can the most killer soundtrack and the most eye burning visuals EVER in a game, but if you don't BRING THE GAMEPLAY, you've got nothing. This applies across the board from simple casual games to "hardcore" crowd pleasing games. Garbage in, garbage out.
When *you* can address any of those points I've iterated many times over and finally stated for you in clear format, we can move forward, otherwise, the fact still stands that the iPhone/touch is a glorified cell-phone gaming environment with the potential to be more.
In terms of the hardware...
The CPU is stronger than the PSP or the DS
the GPU is better than the PSP or the DS.
The Screen has a higher resolution than the PSP (and about the same size)
The lack of buttons is a problem if you want an old style title that is reliant on button mashing.
I'm pretty sure the iphone is weaker than the PSP overall.
The DS is only 256 x 192, which is close to 1/3 of the PSP screen so they can downscale textures and overall scenes quite a bit. They have to really as the DS only has a fill rate of 30 million pixels/sec compared to the PSP's 664 million/sec. The iphone can do about 300 million/sec max.
The PSP can do more complex scenes (33 million polys/sec - about the same as a PS2), iphone (3.7 million), DS (120k, which is why the DS games are mainly 2D side scrollers).
So far, I've seen PSone level graphics on the iphone and no better. I guess Dreamcast is the more accurate comparison but they were pretty close visually. PSP games look incredible by comparison and almost identical to a PS2.
The fast CPU and higher amounts of Ram mean the iphone can do the same level of physics but it can't push the polys to screen fast enough. The more graphically advanced games like Hero of Sparta still don't look as good as God of War on the PSP and still lag severely during gameplay.
I will say that iphone games load very quickly, which is great but they need to optimize the graphics processing a lot to get close to PSP quality.
Regarding tactile controls, it's not just for button mashing, they are much easier to control. The touch screen isn't that accurate and it misinterprets touches quite a bit. Enough to make you lose the type of games that require fast and accurate input.
I do think it has the potential to be a popular gaming platform, it just needs to be refined. Even after that process, I still think it will fall short of the PSP but hopefully the developer interest and distribution model will give it an advantage over the PSP - a large enough games catalog to be worthwhile.