Informed speculation on the new PowerMacs

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  • Reply 21 of 116
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    [quote] 2 Super PM's



    DDRRAM G4 2x1 GHz and 2x1.2 GHz (new mobo)

    Superdrives

    $2800-$3600

    GeForce 3 <hr></blockquote>



    I can live with that and be happy. But what about the G4s that Moto has clocked up to 1.8ghz? Of course, not everyone that came off the line clocked that high, but they did get some. Maybe the delay is also to also more fabbing to get more 1.8ghzs or a least 1.6ghzs?



    A 1.2ghz with DDR (assuming faster bus) is all I'm asking for.
  • Reply 22 of 116
    blablablabla Posts: 185member
    [quote]Originally posted by suckfuldotcom:

    <strong>

    4. There will likely be 3 configurations.



    I think there will be 4 configs. Some will be Apollos, some will not.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Well.. Apollo itself should be cheaper than the 7450... or? But even if Apollo will have a price advantage over the older CPU, Applie still might use the older CPU for a while in the low end model(s).
  • Reply 23 of 116
    falconfalcon Posts: 458member
    A 1.8Ghz G4? Someone has been smoking way to much grass.



    I think that Nostradamus nailed the next PM pretty well. Though I do think that we might see a 1.2 or maybe a 1.3-1.4 G4 on the high end. If we are lucky. Which we prolly wont be.



    If Apple/Mot mannages to put out a DDR Duel 1.2Ghz G4, that would restrain me from flying to Mots headquarters and burning them all alive.
  • Reply 24 of 116
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member
    [quote]Originally posted by Nostradamus:

    <strong>



    Why?



    [ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: Nostradamus ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    'cos these specs are crap, compared to what they should be. Get another 300mhz or so and they might be even slightly competitive



    Amorya
  • Reply 25 of 116
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    I think someone needs to get laid.



    [quote] No GHz breakage. This one didn?t happen for obvious reasons, too, though all the Macheads (myself included) sometime like to look the other way when all signs are pointing in another direction. We didn?t get speed-bumped G4?s for one main reason: current chip integrity versus demand for the product. Everyone knows/has heard that Moto has pushed the G4 processor up to 1.8GHz (and over that to fail safe), but less than one out of ten chips can maintain that level. That?s just no good statistically. Of course, every chip coming off the line won?t be perfect and there?s an anticipated number of lost chips that will be recycled. <hr></blockquote>
  • Reply 26 of 116
    tjmtjm Posts: 367member
    No offense, but I sincerely hope you are wrong.



    If this is all the better Apple could do, I don't see why they weren't announced at MWSF. It's a pretty lame upgrade that certainly wouldn't detract from the iMac's attention. In fact, if that's all they had, I would think Jobs would introduce them at MWSF, so that they would be overlooked in the excitement of the new iMac. I don't see them selling too many of these if they're announced now.
  • Reply 27 of 116
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    I agree. $5000 for a tower that only a few 100 mhz faster then the hot new iMac? Forget the bus and expansion, that's not worth 2-3k.
  • Reply 28 of 116
    dhagan4755dhagan4755 Posts: 2,148member
    Informed speculation leads me to believe that the G5 will be introduced shortly. And the reasons it wasn't intro'd at MWSF was because of the demand Apple would incur and the availability of the chips, since the G5 was just completed before Christmas! Not to mention the fact that it would essentially steal the thunder from the new, ravishing iMac.
  • Reply 29 of 116
    I forgot to add that if the PowerMacs do get a DDR main memory bus, 8X AGP would become viable as an upgrade to the current 4X AGP bus.
  • Reply 30 of 116
    it never hurts to underestimate motorola, but i don't think your configs offer enough performance differentiation from the new imac...and i doubt apple would be stupid enough to release machines that make its pro line look feeble in comparison to their new consumer machine.



    i would think a single 1.2 G4 on the lowend, a single 1.4 G4 for the midline and a dual 1.4 G4's for the high-end sound far less risky.



    to maximize whatever speed they can get off the current CPU's, i would expect a greater focus on system bus, DDR, and faster internal drives. all the rest...G5, 800mbps firewire, etc. i would expect to arrive later in a new enclosure. i'd be very surprised if this wasn't a transitional machine, much like the YIKES G4 was at first. i think the fireworks, unfortunately, will come later. apple please prove me wrong!
  • Reply 31 of 116
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    I agree that we'll not see a G5 anytime soon. and if we see it at 1.6 GHz all we will be getting is ripped off. The G5 was originaly slated to start out at speeds of 2.2GHz, later the roadmap was altered by motorola to 2GHz+. I have not looked at a Motorola roadmap lately I'll admit, but If there is a G5 at 1.6 Ghz all it is is a G4 Apollo clocked at 1.6GHz with G5 branded on it. Which would be total BS!



    A 1.2Ghz G4 for the highest clockspeed on the next revision of the PowerMac sounds like something Apple/Motorola would do. They should go for 1GHz for the low end 1.2, or 3 for the middle, and 1.5, or 6 for the high clock rate.



    That would be a worth while buy $$$ for the last PowerMac G4 revision before the release of the G5 comes to the PowerMac line.



    (If they do two revisions before they release the G5 all faith in Apple will be lost AGAIN)



    Those speeds would give Apple a buzz around the industry that they have not heard for some time.



    That buzz would be overwhelming customer satisfaction. When was the last time you wen't into a chatroom after a big Apple announcment, and saw more favorablle reviews than not?



    I'm not talking iPod.
  • Reply 32 of 116
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    [quote]Originally posted by onlooker:

    <strong>I agree that we'll not see a G5 anytime soon. and if we see it at 1.6 GHz all we will be getting is ripped off. The G5 was originaly slated to start out at speeds of 2.2GHz, later the roadmap was altered by motorola to 2GHz+. I have not looked at a Motorola roadmap lately I'll admit, but If there is a G5 at 1.6 Ghz all it is is a G4 Apollo clocked at 1.6GHz with G5 branded on it. Which would be total BS!</strong><hr></blockquote>



    the G5 on Motorola's roadmap is from 800Mhz up
  • Reply 33 of 116
    [quote]Originally posted by TJM:

    <strong>No offense, but I sincerely hope you are wrong.



    If this is all the better Apple could do, I don't see why they weren't announced at MWSF. It's a pretty lame upgrade that certainly wouldn't detract from the iMac's attention. In fact, if that's all they had, I would think Jobs would introduce them at MWSF, so that they would be overlooked in the excitement of the new iMac. I don't see them selling too many of these if they're announced now.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Very good point. I'm hoping for a G5, if for no other reason (as I have no money) then to tell P4 and AMD fan boys to shove it.



    Remeber how the 640x0 processors sucked, especially at the end? After that came the great performance explosion of the PowerPCs. I see a similar thing happening here. After being stuck a (relatively) poor preformance point for a bit, there will be a massive increase in performance. Macs once again, will be the most powerful desktops on earth.
  • Reply 34 of 116
    [quote]Originally posted by koffedrnkr:

    <strong>it never hurts to underestimate motorola, but i don't think your configs offer enough performance differentiation from the new imac...</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I respectfully disagree.
  • Reply 35 of 116
    [quote]Originally posted by onlooker:

    <strong>I agree that we'll not see a G5 anytime soon. and if we see it at 1.6 GHz all we will be getting is ripped off. The G5 was originaly slated to start out at speeds of 2.2GHz, later the roadmap was altered by motorola to 2GHz+. I have not looked at a Motorola roadmap lately I'll admit, but If there is a G5 at 1.6 Ghz all it is is a G4 Apollo clocked at 1.6GHz with G5 branded on it. Which would be total BS!

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    The G5 was originally on the roadmap at 2+ GHz. The latest roadmap says 800 MHz - 2 GHz. There is no reason to think that a 1.6 GHz G5 is a re-badged Apollo... the G5 will have an all-new core and bus, which is a far cry from what the Apollo is. It will also perform significantly better than the Apollo at the same clockspeed. This isn't to say that they couldn't rebadge the Apollo and try selling it as a G5, but just 'cuz you see 1.6 GHz (or even 1.0), that doesn't mean its an Apollo.
  • Reply 36 of 116
    i liked Nostradamus's ideas but there are a few things that i would change. first there is no way apple would have that huge of a gap between the low end and the middle end. i think the lowend will be 1ghz and it would have a superdrive



    I think they will raise the price to $1799 as the imac is. The middle end will be $2599 and will be 1.1ghz while the 1.2ghz will be 1.2ghz. i don't think apple will do multichips in one machine because supplys will be in short supply plus they make more money on this.
  • Reply 37 of 116
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    I think Apple should put the fastest chips it can in the iMac and who cares if it intrudes in the promarket. The PowerMacs should get the fastest that they can when they get bumped, and if that isn't much better than the iMac, GOOD. Apple needs the iMac to be its best value to consumers, just like the iBook.



    I would also assume that the casing wouldn't change much, has anyone ever really complained? (except maybe the funky speaker).



    If the clockspeed isn't great, then they'll just have to do more multiprocessor boards, which wouldn't be hard since I bet the yields will be good enough and their margin is already so big on the machines that they could eat a little bit of the extra expense.



    The big news I would hope for the next PMac upgrade will also include software and the next step for QT.
  • Reply 38 of 116
    mokimoki Posts: 551member
    [quote]Originally posted by KidRed:

    <strong>A 1.2ghz with DDR (assuming faster bus) is all I'm asking for.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    It is entirely possible you will get it. DDR is inevitable, and one might conclude that Apple decided to skip an interim SDRAM speedbump (which was/is in the works) and just go with their DDR mobo.



    I know that I for one am waiting on the DDR models to buy a new G4 tower (a dualie).
  • Reply 39 of 116
    If apple had a FSB speed of 266-333 mhz, combined with DDR-ram at similar speed, then that would give the Pmacs SUCH a huge performance boost, even if they only Scrape over a ghz, I think that a ghz g4 with ddr-ram at 333 mhz and a geforce4 card would EASILY match up or pass AMD and intel in all the graphics stuff(like they did with the 500 mhz g4 when the g4 first came out, not severly beating AMD and intel, but beating them enough to brag)supposing apple releases a g5 with the forementioned ddr setup, then combined with the 64 bit dual core g5 design, then even at 1.2-1.4 ghz the g5 would CLOBBER AMD and intel, of course if it is a g5 that is released I wager it will be 1.6 ghz, however then they would want the iMacs to be at least a ghz if you think about it, I sure hope apple doesn't hold back on Pmac power just because it would make the iMac look as bad as the iMac makes the current g4s look bad



    as for the predicted stats here, they are pessimistic, and I don't really believe them all, but It does sound reasonable for apple(however you never know, they may still wow us)





    I have the hic-cups, and I have to wake up early tommorrow morning urg!
  • Reply 40 of 116
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    [quote]Originally posted by moki:

    <strong>



    It is entirely possible you will get it. DDR is inevitable, and one might conclude that Apple decided to skip an interim SDRAM speedbump (which was/is in the works) and just go with their DDR mobo.



    I know that I for one am waiting on the DDR models to buy a new G4 tower (a dualie).</strong><hr></blockquote>





    So you admit it!! A dual 1.0ghz + with new DDR/mobo.



    What speeds are you waiting for? Also, assuming Apple goes with DDR, they will up the bus and all right? It needs to be what, 266mhz or something?
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