A closer look at Apple's advanced notebook battery tech

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  • Reply 101 of 166
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    This whole notion of not being able to replace one's battery is what is most appalling. Would you buy a car if the hood was sealed shut and you could not get access? If it were made by Apple I suppose many on here would -regardless. The more that is taken away from one for the sake of design (read thinness) is insane! What's next - no access to anything at all?



    Many people lament the fact that cars have become almost impossible to work on by average Joe. Try tuning a modern car. Yes, you can change the battery and other consumables but for the most part people go to a pro place to do the simplest of things. I am not saying it is a good thing but I have never heard of anybody not buying a car because they needed a special tool to change the fan belt. And I think this is the point here - you may want to change the battery but the vast majority of users wont. Macs used to be ridiculed for not offering expansion possibilities. The fact is that the vast majority of people never upgrade and of the ones that do only do it once - at the point of purchase. Of the upgrades carried out post purchase RAM is the only relevant one for normal users. Heavy duty users, gamers, video and graphics pros etc will use the very upgradable MacPro, or alternatively a cheaper option such as Dell, or I guess, Psystar.
  • Reply 102 of 166
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    And that prove that people don't care about replaceable batteries as much as you think. Just check the iPhone and iPod sales figures. Seriously, you need to look behind what you want and look at the whole picture. Many people don't care. For those who care, Apple sells the 15" MBP and 13" MB with replaceable battery. You didn't like the new MB and MBP because of their glossy displays and lack of FW for the 13" but they are at No. 6, 14, and 16 on Amazon best selling laptops.



    I.



    What does that prove? People voted for George W Bush twice.

    SO why is the an antiglare option now ?
  • Reply 103 of 166
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    In the video it appeared to suggest that the CPU was controlling the Adaptive Charging process. To me this means that it would be best to charge the battery while the computer is running otherwise the CPU would not be available. What happens when you charge the battery with the computer turned off?



    Thanks for any details.



    m
  • Reply 104 of 166
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    What does that prove? People voted for George W Bush twice.

    SO why is the an antiglare option now ?



    Do you seriously believe that Apple included antiglare option because you wanted it?! Why do you think Apple ask those who buy their products to fill out online surveys? It is all about market research and sales figures. I am sure that Apple decided to include antiglare option because high number of 17" MBP with matte screen were sold compared to glossy and because based on their research those who buy the 17" prefer the antiglare option.



    What George Bush has to do with iPhone and iPod sales figures?! Please keep it relevant instead of throwing politics into the subject.
  • Reply 105 of 166
    snappy article once you get past the film on top...
  • Reply 106 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anilsudhakaran View Post


    Take your swappable battery and shove it up your filthy stinking A'HOLE.



    Hello fanboy - I see you have no opportunity for getting laid anytime soon and have lots of free time, so let me ask you something. There's been more than 2 battery recalls in the last generation of Macbooks. My own REMOVABLE battery was (conveniently) swapped by Apple at one of their stores. No muss no fuss.



    Think they'll be any fuss when the next recall occurs? Or are you just hoping they'll bulge through the whole of the laptop instead of the battery case, or just burst into flames as users decide taking it in for battery-surgery is more of a hastle than ignoring the recall notices.



    Don't worry - reality won't impede in your fantasy so don't pay the real-world examples any mind. Because it would unrealistically be suggesting you have one. Knee-jerk reflexes? Oh yes - you have plenty of that. A mind? Of course not.
  • Reply 107 of 166
    dws-2dws-2 Posts: 276member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DoctorBenway View Post


    ... There's been more than 2 battery recalls in the last generation of Macbooks. My own REMOVABLE battery was (conveniently) swapped by Apple at one of their stores. No muss no fuss.



    Think they'll be any fuss when the next recall occurs? ...



    I hadn't thought of that. I would vastly prefer a longer lasting built-in battery on my MacBook Pro, but a mass recall would be a major problem for a lot of users and for Apple. On the other hand, I think thebattery technology they're using is supposed to have those problems solved (famous last words).
  • Reply 108 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


    As a stockholder, I sure hope Apple can find a compromise between being "cheap" and "high end" for the next few years. Based on the keynote, they sold 2.3MM macs this past quarter, which was a little lower than I hoped, but seemingly in-line with estimates.



    It will be hard to maintain sales and profits if the entire portfolio is biased to the high end.



    The MacBook is mid-range. The MacBook Pros are high-end. MacBooks sell very well.



    As Steve Jobs has stated, Apple does NOT make junk. The majority of generic PC laptops are junk.
  • Reply 109 of 166
    dentondenton Posts: 725member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by federmoose View Post


    Here's the thing though... the battery is replaceable, you just need a screwdriver. So you cary one extra battery (2 batteries * 8h = 16h) and a screwdriver... you can replace it on an airplane just fine.



    You can't even take water on a plane, do you think they'll let you take a screwdriver?
  • Reply 110 of 166
    dentondenton Posts: 725member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macologist View Post


    Only on select planes, and mostly not in coach, except for a few seats, that one has to reserve ahead of time. First Class is easier, but most people don't fly that way.



    Are you really going to use a 17" laptop in coach? I have a hard enough time with a 14"!
  • Reply 111 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    Do you seriously believe that Apple included antiglare option because you wanted it?! Why do you think Apple ask those who buy their products to fill out online surveys? It is all about market research and sales figures. I am sure that Apple decided to include antiglare option because high number of 17" MBP with matte screen were sold compared to glossy and because based on their research those who buy the 17" prefer the antiglare option.



    What George Bush has to do with iPhone and iPod sales figures?! Please keep it relevant instead of throwing politics into the subject.



    I figured the matte option could be a slightly underhanded upsell option.



    And to those saying "how come the 15" MBP has the removable battery?" Space, obviously.



    The 17" enclosure is big enough to make the new batter 8 hours - which, a couple years ago Steve Jobs said was their goal, to make a battery that will last a full work day - and a non-removable batter in the 15" that is only 6 or 7 hours wasn't desirable.



    Last point: if the battery lasts for 1000 cycles and has a long 8 hour charge (i'm assuming these numbers are accurate), then it should last, even if you recharcge every single day, over 3 years, which for someone who is paying for a 17" Pro machine and working s much, would make the machine outdated anyway.



    I understand for some people this new move is a detriment, but how can computers possibly move forward without someone (company) taking a chance on INNOVATION. Sometimes innovation fails, sometimes it succeeds, but without it we would still be using MS DOS.
  • Reply 112 of 166
    dentondenton Posts: 725member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I would like to a least have the option to buy an external MagSafe connected battery from Apple or an approved 3rd-party, but that isn't too much of a big deal as 8 hours covers most international flights.



    This is definitely the way to go. The only possible complaint is that an external battery might sometimes be in the way when in a tight place. But I doubt that's any real issue.
  • Reply 113 of 166
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Denton View Post


    This is definitely the way to go. The only possible complaint is that an external battery might sometimes be in the way when in a tight place. But I doubt that's any real issue.



    How about various length external batteries for the widths of the current models, so they can sit under the back of the notebooks? But having enough cord so they can also sit behind the notebook for those that don't want them propped up, which I don't care for. Having a MagSafe power pass-through would also be nice so you can charge both batteries at the same time off the same power cord.
  • Reply 114 of 166
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by merdhead View Post


    That's right! Taking functionality away is innovation. I can't wait for them top take away that pesky screen. And the keyboard. Being an Apple, it will know what I want just by me laying on my hands. And Steve's wisdom will flow though my palms... Nirvana!



    By your shortsighted defintion DVD was not innovative because they didn't have the ability to record live TV shows, which VHS had.
  • Reply 115 of 166
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    I'm just curious how hard, if it is even possible, to design a lithium-polymer battery that would be user replacable?



    And, if it is possible, how long before Dell, HP, etc. do indeed design one.
  • Reply 116 of 166
    dentondenton Posts: 725member
    If Apple can pull a similar trick on the Macbook -- getting the battery-life to 8 hours -- by making the battery a fixed internal, I'm all for it. I've twice replaced my battery on my notebook, which was obviously easy, but I've also replaced the fan and the hinge. Operating on a notebook once per year is not a big deal.



    For those who want second (third?) batteries, external batteries will work just as well as swapping a removable internal battery. While this does create a little more clutter around the notebook, it's a fine compromise as the percentage of users with second batteries is probably not above 10%. At the consumer end of the spectrum, this ratio may not even be 1%. I bet this gamble will pay-off big for Apple.



    I also like the idea that the extended lifetime of the battery will lessen the number of batteries that must be disposed of.



    All around, I'm quite content with the direction that Apple is taking with the batteries. As someone else pointed out, this is the way that the internals of cars have gone and people still buy them because the performance trade off is so much better. It'll be the same with computers.
  • Reply 117 of 166
    dentondenton Posts: 725member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    How about various length external batteries for the widths of the current models, so they can sit under the back of the notebooks? But having enough cord so they can also sit behind the notebook for those that don't want them propped up, which I don't care for. Having a MagSafe power pass-through would also be nice so you can charge both batteries at the same time off the same power cord.



    I think that having a pass-through so one could charge the external while plugged in would be a good idea. I wonder if the amount of power delivered would need to be higher in this case (charging the external and internal batteries, while also powering the notebook).
  • Reply 118 of 166
    Quote:

    The 40% larger battery used in the 17" MacBook Pro gives it up to 8 hours of life, making it far more practically useful than a conventional 5 hour replaceable battery that requires also carrying a separate spare battery, and probably also an external charger.



    This is just silly. Why carry an external charger if you have an extra battery? You wouldn't. You WOULD however carry a charger if you had a non-replaceable battery, as in these new MBP 17s. So calling a sealed battery "far more practically useful" is nonsense.



    Oh, and Apple could absolutely make the 13" and 15" last 8 hours on their replaceable batteries, but they don't because of the weight trade off. Remember how they REDUCED the watt hours on the new batteries compared to the old? Take out the battery of a 13" unibody and the battery is only half full of cells, just feel the weight distribution! Apple made compromises to get the new 13" down to 4.5lbs (so they could claim ".5lbs less than previous gen!") but this was at the expense of a real advance in battery life. With the 17" they have enough room and latitude on the weight issue that they can use a battery that is actually FULL of cells.
  • Reply 119 of 166
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post


    new revolutionary batteries now then why don't they sell them for all their products? It should be a priority for all Macbooks don't you think?a



    I thought of that, and my speculation on that would be that Apple might be testing the waters. It might be a great idea but you never know what people will really buy, and maybe it's a bit of a risk, so they only put it in the line that "pros" buy, leaving it to them to "understand" how great an idea this is. As the article states, the "problem" of not having a removable battery will certainly be solved by 3rd parties in the coming years when replacements are needed.
  • Reply 120 of 166
    rayzrayz Posts: 814member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post


    I'm just curious how hard, if it is even possible, to design a lithium-polymer battery that would be user replacable?



    And, if it is possible, how long before Dell, HP, etc. do indeed design one.



    You mean like the one HP announced last month?



    Apparently the thing can be recharged to 80% capacity in half an hour, without impacting on its 1000 cycle lifespan.



    Looks like the big players are taking this 'green battery' thing very seriously ....
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