I'd love to install some of the various themes hacks in 10.2 but I'm just afraid of monkeying up the computer in the process. What's the general consensus about Haxies, which are safe and which should people steer clear of installing?
You know how extensions and control panels in Classic Mac OS could cause conflicts and **** up your system? Haxies are just as bad. They write into application memory space that typically can not and SHOULD NOT be messed with.
Lots of people have no problems with them at all. Some other users (including myself), on the other hand, have had many wild problems crop up after installing them. Just consider yourself warned.
The ones from Unsanity (makers of the original Haxie - and the name AFAIK) are safe as mother's milk. That's all I can tell you for sure. Don't know about the others.
Well, maybe as safe as mother's milk to her child when that child is very young... but I wouldn't suggest just going up to some random woman and attempting to nurse, because you'll probably get smacked and sued for sexual assault.
Haxies are kinda like that... sometimes you get a nice little enhancement, and sometimes you get smacked and maced and sued.
I don't know about even Unsanity's haxies. The two I tried immediately preceded some strange goings on on my computer. Permissions just got screwed up for some reason. I know it wasn't me because I'm pretty careful about stuff like that and they were the only things installed around that time. As far as themes: don't do it. They can cause all sorts of heart-ache. It's really not worth it. My 2¢.
When I said haxies are unsafe and said that they screw around in memory, I was indeed referring to Unsanity's haxies. Who else uses a name like "haxie" that I could be referring to?
Brad: Sorry. I just meant that I've heard people refer to non-Unsanity apps as "haxies" - for example the various weather widgets people install on their menubar, or things like TinkerTool.
Anyway, I didn't realize people had real problems with things like WindowShadeX and the like. This is honestly the first I've heard of people citing repeatable problems due to the Haxie itself. My mistake I guess.
I'll just say that I've never had a problem with any of them (that I'm aware of).
<strong>Do themes affect stability? I would love to install one by I refuse to screw up my stability in Os X.</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, if a theme is missing any of the data from the original files, it can stop your system dead in its tracks. You see, these "themes" are really just hacks of existing system files. They take the core *.rsrc files, replace the graphics with their own, DELETE THE ORIGINALS OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM FOLDER, and replace the originals with their own custom files. It is VERY important for people to realize that themes aren't an add-on like Kaleidoscope was in Classic; rather, they actually permanently destroy and replace crucial system files.
Provided that the various *.rsrc files are properly intact, other problems can arise from the installation process of some themes. Specifically, theme packages are infamous for scattering the developer's invisible ".DS_Store" files into your folders. These files contain the Finder's settings for things like window view type and icon arrangement. Because you have to authenticate the installer to install the themes, these .DS_Store files also get installed as a super-user and can cause problems later. Ever read about people having problems with the Finder not "remembering" window settings? This is what causes that.
I STRONGLY advise against installing themes (in their current state) unless you know exactly what files are being modified, you have backed up said files, and know how to restore the backups through the command-line should the theme wreak havoc on your Mac.
I was one of the first Mac OS X users to make themes. I still tinker with them from time to time; so, I intimately know all the evils that can arise from themes on Mac OS X.
[quote]Originally posted by drewprops:
<strong>So, like, if I'm already running Weatherpop and that thing called "ASM" then am I already running hacks?</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, if I recall correctly, these two apps may simply be status menus and are therefore wholly self-contained. If the code in one of them were to blow up, it wouldn't take down the rest of the system.
On the other hand, if you're using the ".menu" versions of these apps, then, yes, there is the chance that they can threaten the stability of your system. Apple strictly put .menu apps off-limits to third-party developers because buggy .menus can freeze up or crash the whole window server. Yet, developers disregard this and hack away at the system to get them to work anyway.
Here's a test. If you can hold the command key and drag these items off of the menu bar, then they are .menu apps like I just described. If you can't, then they're just status menus and should be safe.
So I've installed .menu apps on my machine. Here's hoping that they don't bugger up my system! Thanks for the explanation Brad, you should get MVM on the AI boards in my opinion.
Well, just because you're using .menus doesn't mean your computer WILL crash. ASM and WeatherPop may be coded beautifully and may never give you troubles. It's just that I think it is very important that users know the facts and that this kind of software can indeed cause problems if not coded properly.
It's kind-of like the old "buyer beware" saying. Many people will never have problems, but I don't think that's an excuse to not keep informed about software that does things that normally aren't allowed.
I've had no real problems with Unsanity's haxies other than the lag-time between 10.2's release and 10.2 compatible haxie releases.
I think it's unfair to claim haxies cause stability problems when most apps themselves are already upsettingly unstable.
Unsanity gets my praise for at least three things:
1) The haxies are either free or dirt cheap
2) They release updates quickly
3) The haxies themselves don't affect the whole system, and only the apps they are told to alter. If you run into stability problems with certain apps you can disable the haxies for those particular apps.
That said, the only haxie I'm currently running is Windowshade X. I used to use Silk but that's pretty much not needed anymore.
haxies may be safe but that is not to say that they do not cause imcompatibilities at times. I used the de-metallizer one and Toast would crash each time I tried to open it. removed the haxie and Toast ran perfectly. Go figure.
one of their haxies was causing random apps to crash after waking from sleeping. they are not harmelss and do muck with the system sometimes.
thankfully they came out with a new rev that seems to fix thing but when i upgrade to jag i will be leaving them all out. my system just takes to long to start up on login after restart.
<strong>haxies may be safe but that is not to say that they do not cause imcompatibilities at times. I used the de-metallizer one and Toast would crash each time I tried to open it. removed the haxie and Toast ran perfectly. Go figure.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This problem existed with WindowShade X too. It's been fixed. It's probably been fixed with Metallifizer as well
Yesterday, for the first time really, I experienced some bizarre menu / file behaviors that I am for now attributing to Unsanity's stuff. Here is a question for you:
I recent installed that APE thing - their haxie back-end software, and then updated FruitMenu, WindowShade X, etc. Is it possible that since they have moved to this new backend system (basing all their haxies on it) that this is what has been causing many of the problems?
I never used to have troubles back in the early release days, so I'm wondering if this new architecture and how it interacts with the system is a culprit. Anyone know? Brad?
The new system was actually designed to combat stability and system crash problems. It starts up the haxie server and then supplies each application with enhancements individually...to isolate potential problems to aped or the problematic app only.
Yah, but seeing as how it is new, I'm wondering if they've yet to work some major kinks out of it?
Anyway, now that DragThing 4.5 is out, it basically elimates the need (for me anyway) for either FruitMenu or MaxMenus because docks can now act as spring-loaded drawers that pop out from the side of the screen. Basically takes up very little screen space....
Comments
Lots of people have no problems with them at all. Some other users (including myself), on the other hand, have had many wild problems crop up after installing them. Just consider yourself warned.
[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>
Haxies are kinda like that... sometimes you get a nice little enhancement, and sometimes you get smacked and maced and sued.
They are NOT as flawless as you suggest, Moogs.
Brad: Sorry. I just meant that I've heard people refer to non-Unsanity apps as "haxies" - for example the various weather widgets people install on their menubar, or things like TinkerTool.
Anyway, I didn't realize people had real problems with things like WindowShadeX and the like. This is honestly the first I've heard of people citing repeatable problems due to the Haxie itself. My mistake I guess.
I'll just say that I've never had a problem with any of them (that I'm aware of).
<gulp>
D
<strong>Do themes affect stability? I would love to install one by I refuse to screw up my stability in Os X.</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, if a theme is missing any of the data from the original files, it can stop your system dead in its tracks. You see, these "themes" are really just hacks of existing system files. They take the core *.rsrc files, replace the graphics with their own, DELETE THE ORIGINALS OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM FOLDER, and replace the originals with their own custom files. It is VERY important for people to realize that themes aren't an add-on like Kaleidoscope was in Classic; rather, they actually permanently destroy and replace crucial system files.
Provided that the various *.rsrc files are properly intact, other problems can arise from the installation process of some themes. Specifically, theme packages are infamous for scattering the developer's invisible ".DS_Store" files into your folders. These files contain the Finder's settings for things like window view type and icon arrangement. Because you have to authenticate the installer to install the themes, these .DS_Store files also get installed as a super-user and can cause problems later. Ever read about people having problems with the Finder not "remembering" window settings? This is what causes that.
I STRONGLY advise against installing themes (in their current state) unless you know exactly what files are being modified, you have backed up said files, and know how to restore the backups through the command-line should the theme wreak havoc on your Mac.
I was one of the first Mac OS X users to make themes. I still tinker with them from time to time; so, I intimately know all the evils that can arise from themes on Mac OS X.
[quote]Originally posted by drewprops:
<strong>So, like, if I'm already running Weatherpop and that thing called "ASM" then am I already running hacks?</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, if I recall correctly, these two apps may simply be status menus and are therefore wholly self-contained. If the code in one of them were to blow up, it wouldn't take down the rest of the system.
On the other hand, if you're using the ".menu" versions of these apps, then, yes, there is the chance that they can threaten the stability of your system. Apple strictly put .menu apps off-limits to third-party developers because buggy .menus can freeze up or crash the whole window server. Yet, developers disregard this and hack away at the system to get them to work anyway.
Here's a test. If you can hold the command key and drag these items off of the menu bar, then they are .menu apps like I just described. If you can't, then they're just status menus and should be safe.
[ 09-16-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>
So I've installed .menu apps on my machine. Here's hoping that they don't bugger up my system! Thanks for the explanation Brad, you should get MVM on the AI boards in my opinion.
Do I hear a second?
D
It's kind-of like the old "buyer beware" saying. Many people will never have problems, but I don't think that's an excuse to not keep informed about software that does things that normally aren't allowed.
I think it's unfair to claim haxies cause stability problems when most apps themselves are already upsettingly unstable.
Unsanity gets my praise for at least three things:
1) The haxies are either free or dirt cheap
2) They release updates quickly
3) The haxies themselves don't affect the whole system, and only the apps they are told to alter. If you run into stability problems with certain apps you can disable the haxies for those particular apps.
That said, the only haxie I'm currently running is Windowshade X. I used to use Silk but that's pretty much not needed anymore.
[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
thankfully they came out with a new rev that seems to fix thing but when i upgrade to jag i will be leaving them all out. my system just takes to long to start up on login after restart.
<strong>haxies may be safe but that is not to say that they do not cause imcompatibilities at times. I used the de-metallizer one and Toast would crash each time I tried to open it. removed the haxie and Toast ran perfectly. Go figure.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This problem existed with WindowShade X too. It's been fixed. It's probably been fixed with Metallifizer as well
Yesterday, for the first time really, I experienced some bizarre menu / file behaviors that I am for now attributing to Unsanity's stuff. Here is a question for you:
I recent installed that APE thing - their haxie back-end software, and then updated FruitMenu, WindowShade X, etc. Is it possible that since they have moved to this new backend system (basing all their haxies on it) that this is what has been causing many of the problems?
I never used to have troubles back in the early release days, so I'm wondering if this new architecture and how it interacts with the system is a culprit. Anyone know? Brad?
Anyway, now that DragThing 4.5 is out, it basically elimates the need (for me anyway) for either FruitMenu or MaxMenus because docks can now act as spring-loaded drawers that pop out from the side of the screen. Basically takes up very little screen space....
James Thomson is the man AFAIC.