Heh. I think that sums up the debate on the Mac Pro.
Lemon Bon Bon.
You simply won't find a machine that is half the cost of the Mac Pro that is the machines equal in everyway. This doesn't mean however that Apple should ignore the desktop market. In this regard they really need a gap filling machine and not a cheaper Mac Pro.
I just find it extremely bothersome when people compare the Mac Pro with machines they want to buy and then declare the machine grossly overpriced. It isn't overpriced considering what you are getting. What we need is an XMac, that is a midrange machine in the $1200 to $1500 range.
First off Apple has always been focused on the consummer market because that is where their bread and butter has always been. This has been the case even back when the Macs where the primary product.
Second Apples recent success with business has a lot to do with finally deploying a viable OS that business can appreciate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
Well, considering Apple's increasing consumer focus, the Mac Pro's pricing is kind of ironic.
Repeat after me; the Mac Pro has never been targetted at the consummer market. The iMac and the Mini fill that role. The iMac though straddles both interests
Quote:
If they want to consign the Pro to oblivion, they're going the right way about it. 2000k for a tower with a quad cpu and a naff gpu is daylight robbery. A 'workstation' sticker and a sexy case are scant consolation.
That is BS, what do you want Apple selling the Pro at a loss? The price on the Pto directly reflects what it is built out of. If you don't want that grade of hardware fine, just don't call it expensive because desktop hardware is cheaper. It is a mistake to focus on the Mac Pros expense when the real issue is the lack of a competitive desktop model.
Quote:
U
Introduce 2 cheaper six core models with a decent gpu in the £1200-£1600 bracket for...er...non-millionaires and who knows...they could probably get a few more PC tower switchers and that would be well timed with Valve's stream move...
Lemon Bon Bon.
Yes but that wouldn't be a Mac Pro. Apple needs to fill that role by the way but such a machine couldn't replace the Mac Pro. I understand what you want because frankly I'd like the same thing. However that desire isn't justification for ragging on the Mac Pro.
Dave sez: "What is this noise about consummer focus????
Lemon sez: I dunno, what is this 'noise' about this 'noise' of 'consumer focus?'
Dave sez: "First off Apple has always been focused on the consummer market because that is where their bread and butter has always been. This has been the case even back when the Macs where the primary product."
Lemon sez: 'Always? They didn't have a consumer product below a grand before the iMac.' Define 'consumer'. Looks look Apple isn't sure either. The Macbook Pro line doesn't have the stupid disparity between it and the Macbook that the Pro and the iMac has. But Mac desktops have been crap for sometime. I'll go a little easier on my iMac because I have one. But is is overpriced.
Dave sez: "Second Apples recent success with business has a lot to do with finally deploying a viable OS that business can appreciate."
Lemon sez: 'Er. Ok. Wake me up when it overtakes Windows in Business...'
Lemon sez 'Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
Well, considering Apple's increasing consumer focus, the Mac Pro's pricing is kind of ironic.'
Dave sez: 'Repeat after me;"
Lemon sez: 'No.'
Dave sez: '...the Mac Pro has never been targetted at the consummer market.'
Lemon sez: 'That is a blatant fabrication. Mac 'Pros' have been as cheap as £995 in the UK for the 'single' tower. Sure, it's historical fact. But that's clear consumer price territory right there.'
Dave sez: 'The iMac and the Mini fill that role.'
Lemon sez: 'Well, uhm. That's all Apple sells in that 'role'? Maybe they could sell something better?'
Dave sezL 'The iMac though straddles both interests'
Lemon sez: 'The iMac straddles. Got to agree on that one. '
Dave sez that Lemon sez: "Quote:
If they want to consign the Pro to oblivion, they're going the right way about it. 2000k for a tower with a quad cpu and a naff gpu is daylight robbery. A 'workstation' sticker and a sexy case are scant consolation."
Dave also sez: "That is BS,"
Lemon sez: 'You've stopped taking your meds.'
Dave sez: '...what do you want Apple selling the Pro at a loss?'
Lemon sez: '...((rolls on the floor laughing at Dave))...UK...cough...splutter...starting price of £2K. *Wipes tear away from eye...'
Dave sez: 'The price on the Pto directly reflects what it is built out of."
Lemon sez: 'BRAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHH....*more laughing...points finger...sides ache with laughter...(...cheap ass gpu...lame quad...and a dollop of...alu...with 4 gigs of ram...with a cheap ass hdrive...)...still rolling...about...I think..ah...no...I've gone and wet myself...'
Dave sez: 'If you don't want that grade of hardware fine,'
Lemon sez: 'Imagine...(giggle) what they'd charge if they had the spec overclockers.co.uk are putting out for £1300ish inc vat in the UK...it would probably start at £4000...?'
Dave sez: '...just don't call it expensive'
Lemon sez: 'Ok. How about very? Obscenely. Outrageously? Hilariously expensive. Hmm. None of them quite seem to match the bare-assed cheek of Apple's 'Pro desktop' pricing...I'll come back to you on that one.'
Dave sez: 'because desktop hardware is cheaper.'
Lemon sez: 'Agreed, PC desktop hardware is cheaper.'
Dave sez: 'It is a mistake'
Lemon sez: 'To price quad core cpus at £2000?'
Dave sez: '...to focus on the Mac Pros expense'
Lemon sez: 'Ok. I'll try not to. (......) No, I just can't help it, Dave. It's too stupendously expensive for a quad tower...'
Dave sez: '...when the real issue is the lack of a competitive desktop model.'
Lemon sez: 'Dave, I'm right there with you. *Places fist on chest. Soul brother.'
Dave sez that I sez: 'Quote:
U
Introduce 2 cheaper six core models with a decent gpu in the £1200-£1600 bracket for...er...non-millionaires and who knows...they could probably get a few more PC tower switchers and that would be well timed with Valve's stream move..."
Now Dave sez: 'Lemon Bon Bon.
Yes but that wouldn't be a Mac Pro.'
Lemon Sez: 'It could be. Or it could be a new machine. But we wouldn't want to screw up Apple's beautiful marketing grid...'
Dave sez: 'Apple needs to fill that role by the way but such a machine couldn't replace the Mac Pro.'
Lemon sez: '*stifles a giggle...sure. Whatever you say, Dave. *Looks at the 'workstation' iMac 27 inch i7 that completely blows away the 'consumer' priced Mac Pro...base model...'
Dave sez: 'I understand what you want because frankly I'd like the same thing.'
Lemon sez: 'Thanks Dave. I've been looking for a long time...you know? For some one that understands me...'
Dave sez: 'However that desire isn't justification for ragging on the Mac Pro.'
Lemon sez: 'Violence and swearing are never justified Dave.'
Moments later...
('Goddaman m*ther f************ overpriced tower with lame add quad starting at £2000, what a bleeeping rips off...lame ass consuemr specs in a suppose 'workstation' joke with a lame ass CONSUMER gpu that's two years out of date and won't run Auto cad when it arrives...if only APPLE offered a goddaman cheaper model...sitting on 40 billion plus not enough for them. yeah, right. They're real consumer champions alright... Throws chair around room...looks witih penis envy at overclockers.co.uk's real world specs that are pure fantasy for Apple tower buyers...etc. Rant. Rave. Same movie. Rinse. Repeat.)
Comments
Heh. I think that sums up the debate on the Mac Pro.
Lemon Bon Bon.
You simply won't find a machine that is half the cost of the Mac Pro that is the machines equal in everyway. This doesn't mean however that Apple should ignore the desktop market. In this regard they really need a gap filling machine and not a cheaper Mac Pro.
I just find it extremely bothersome when people compare the Mac Pro with machines they want to buy and then declare the machine grossly overpriced. It isn't overpriced considering what you are getting. What we need is an XMac, that is a midrange machine in the $1200 to $1500 range.
Dave
Second Apples recent success with business has a lot to do with finally deploying a viable OS that business can appreciate.
Well, considering Apple's increasing consumer focus, the Mac Pro's pricing is kind of ironic.
Repeat after me; the Mac Pro has never been targetted at the consummer market. The iMac and the Mini fill that role. The iMac though straddles both interests
If they want to consign the Pro to oblivion, they're going the right way about it. 2000k for a tower with a quad cpu and a naff gpu is daylight robbery. A 'workstation' sticker and a sexy case are scant consolation.
That is BS, what do you want Apple selling the Pro at a loss? The price on the Pto directly reflects what it is built out of. If you don't want that grade of hardware fine, just don't call it expensive because desktop hardware is cheaper. It is a mistake to focus on the Mac Pros expense when the real issue is the lack of a competitive desktop model.
U
Introduce 2 cheaper six core models with a decent gpu in the £1200-£1600 bracket for...er...non-millionaires and who knows...they could probably get a few more PC tower switchers and that would be well timed with Valve's stream move...
Lemon Bon Bon.
Yes but that wouldn't be a Mac Pro. Apple needs to fill that role by the way but such a machine couldn't replace the Mac Pro. I understand what you want because frankly I'd like the same thing. However that desire isn't justification for ragging on the Mac Pro.
Dave
Lemon sez: I dunno, what is this 'noise' about this 'noise' of 'consumer focus?'
Dave sez: "First off Apple has always been focused on the consummer market because that is where their bread and butter has always been. This has been the case even back when the Macs where the primary product."
Lemon sez: 'Always? They didn't have a consumer product below a grand before the iMac.' Define 'consumer'. Looks look Apple isn't sure either. The Macbook Pro line doesn't have the stupid disparity between it and the Macbook that the Pro and the iMac has. But Mac desktops have been crap for sometime. I'll go a little easier on my iMac because I have one. But is is overpriced.
Dave sez: "Second Apples recent success with business has a lot to do with finally deploying a viable OS that business can appreciate."
Lemon sez: 'Er. Ok. Wake me up when it overtakes Windows in Business...'
Lemon sez 'Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
Well, considering Apple's increasing consumer focus, the Mac Pro's pricing is kind of ironic.'
Dave sez: 'Repeat after me;"
Lemon sez: 'No.'
Dave sez: '...the Mac Pro has never been targetted at the consummer market.'
Lemon sez: 'That is a blatant fabrication. Mac 'Pros' have been as cheap as £995 in the UK for the 'single' tower. Sure, it's historical fact. But that's clear consumer price territory right there.'
Dave sez: 'The iMac and the Mini fill that role.'
Lemon sez: 'Well, uhm. That's all Apple sells in that 'role'? Maybe they could sell something better?'
Dave sezL 'The iMac though straddles both interests'
Lemon sez: 'The iMac straddles. Got to agree on that one.
Dave sez that Lemon sez: "Quote:
If they want to consign the Pro to oblivion, they're going the right way about it. 2000k for a tower with a quad cpu and a naff gpu is daylight robbery. A 'workstation' sticker and a sexy case are scant consolation."
Dave also sez: "That is BS,"
Lemon sez: 'You've stopped taking your meds.'
Dave sez: '...what do you want Apple selling the Pro at a loss?'
Lemon sez: '...((rolls on the floor laughing at Dave))...UK...cough...splutter...starting price of £2K. *Wipes tear away from eye...'
Dave sez: 'The price on the Pto directly reflects what it is built out of."
Lemon sez: 'BRAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHH....*more laughing...points finger...sides ache with laughter...(...cheap ass gpu...lame quad...and a dollop of...alu...with 4 gigs of ram...with a cheap ass hdrive...)...still rolling...about...I think..ah...no...I've gone and wet myself...'
Dave sez: 'If you don't want that grade of hardware fine,'
Lemon sez: 'Imagine...(giggle) what they'd charge if they had the spec overclockers.co.uk are putting out for £1300ish inc vat in the UK...it would probably start at £4000...?'
Dave sez: '...just don't call it expensive'
Lemon sez: 'Ok. How about very? Obscenely. Outrageously? Hilariously expensive. Hmm. None of them quite seem to match the bare-assed cheek of Apple's 'Pro desktop' pricing...I'll come back to you on that one.'
Dave sez: 'because desktop hardware is cheaper.'
Lemon sez: 'Agreed, PC desktop hardware is cheaper.'
Dave sez: 'It is a mistake'
Lemon sez: 'To price quad core cpus at £2000?'
Dave sez: '...to focus on the Mac Pros expense'
Lemon sez: 'Ok. I'll try not to. (......) No, I just can't help it, Dave. It's too stupendously expensive for a quad tower...'
Dave sez: '...when the real issue is the lack of a competitive desktop model.'
Lemon sez: 'Dave, I'm right there with you. *Places fist on chest. Soul brother.'
Dave sez that I sez: 'Quote:
U
Introduce 2 cheaper six core models with a decent gpu in the £1200-£1600 bracket for...er...non-millionaires and who knows...they could probably get a few more PC tower switchers and that would be well timed with Valve's stream move..."
Now Dave sez: 'Lemon Bon Bon.
Yes but that wouldn't be a Mac Pro.'
Lemon Sez: 'It could be. Or it could be a new machine. But we wouldn't want to screw up Apple's beautiful marketing grid...'
Dave sez: 'Apple needs to fill that role by the way but such a machine couldn't replace the Mac Pro.'
Lemon sez: '*stifles a giggle...sure. Whatever you say, Dave. *Looks at the 'workstation' iMac 27 inch i7 that completely blows away the 'consumer' priced Mac Pro...base model...'
Dave sez: 'I understand what you want because frankly I'd like the same thing.'
Lemon sez: 'Thanks Dave. I've been looking for a long time...you know? For some one that understands me...'
Dave sez: 'However that desire isn't justification for ragging on the Mac Pro.'
Lemon sez: 'Violence and swearing are never justified Dave.'
Moments later...
('Goddaman m*ther f************ overpriced tower with lame add quad starting at £2000, what a bleeeping rips off...lame ass consuemr specs in a suppose 'workstation' joke with a lame ass CONSUMER gpu that's two years out of date and won't run Auto cad when it arrives...if only APPLE offered a goddaman cheaper model...sitting on 40 billion plus not enough for them. yeah, right. They're real consumer champions alright... Throws chair around room...looks witih penis envy at overclockers.co.uk's real world specs that are pure fantasy for Apple tower buyers...etc. Rant. Rave. Same movie. Rinse. Repeat.)
Lemon Bon Bon.
Dave