I don't really see the point in a Netbook for Apple anyway - isn't that what the iPhone is for?
In some respects, netbooks are really small, iPhone is ridiculously small. Note books and phones are polar opposites of the portable device spectrum, something in between can be nice to have.
In others, I really don't think iPhones can really replace what a netbook can do. The form factor is very different and fits different uses. Netbooks can operate regular desktop software without changes. I think they're mostly machines for people that need a machine to run desktop software but need to carry them a lot more than they actually use them, because carrying something for hours at a time can be fatiguing.
I hope Apple can somehow find a way to satisfy this market if it's a market that is here to stay, and can do it in a way that doesn't undercut their regular notebooks needlessly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbjai
I don't understand the reasoning behind the iphone nano being a low end part of the market. There are plenty of expensive small phones out there and the market is dying for a touch phone that is not smart phone oriented but more multimedia oriented. Size is an issue and having a small phone with GOOD software like stated above would be the holy grail.
It may be a misdirection on Tim Cook's part to say Apple isn't going to be making a low end phone, I agree that a more compact iphone isn't going to be much less of a premium device than the regular one is.
First of all, it's important to note that the next version of the Mac OS will be leaner, more efficient and that bodes well for any future Apple version of a computer in the netbook space. There is a limit to what can be done with hardware, though that, too, will improve as the months move along. But if the OS is made significantly more efficient, that's a very good way of extracting more performance out of a netbook device, keeping in mind, also, that there will be less storage on such a device, making it all the more important for the OS to have a reduced footprint.
Apple has a history of bringing products to market when they are ready and not a second before. It's not just about making a better product than the competition. It's about gaining the trust of consumers. If sales of Apple laptops are good now it's because of all those younger buyers who enjoyed using their ipods. In other words, in addition to the ipod being the best portable music device on the market, it also improved Apple's reputation with a very important demographic.
On another front, in regards to Apple's desktops, they are all way, way overdue for a makeover. That combined with the impending release of a new OS means a lot of potential Apple desktop buyers are waiting for the new systems. I don't doubt that within the next few months ? if not this quarter then the next one ? there will be new iMacs, minis, and pro desktops. And the OS is also due shortly.
My guess is we'll see the current desktop redesigns first, followed shortly by the OS which may or may not come to market in tandem with Apple's version of a netbook. That schedule will keep everyone interested and before you know it we'll be due for the next batch of ipods.
I'm guessing all the new stuff will be unleashed before Mr. Jobs re-emerges if only to prove a point, namely that Apple is bigger than Jobs. The biggest concern holding the stock back has to be worries that if Jobs goes, the magic goes with him. What better way to dispel that notion than to re-do all the desktops, the OS, and enter the netbook space before Jobs has stepped back into the picture. Or maybe as a bit of showmanship in June Apple could launch the OS, initially minus Jobs, and cap off the event by having him hit the stage with one more thing, i.e. the netbook. It's got Jobs written all over it. I can hardly wait.
I just bought an HP Mini 1000 netbook for ~$400. I would have gladly paid $550 for a 10 inch "Macbook Mini" for $525.
I have no doubt that Apple could make a nice netbook for $525. Take the shell of a white macbook, put in a 10.5" screen, add in the necessary ports (2 USB, power, and video), 2GB RAM, Wifi, Bluetooth, add in snow leopard. Options for HD or SSD, Voila.
It may be a misdirection on Tim Cook's part to say Apple isn't going to be making a low end phone, I agree that a more compact iphone isn't going to be much less of a premium device than the regular one is.
I definetely get the feeling from his part that smaller phones are cheaper lower end products then the iphone. I think thats because Apple must feel that the screen size for a touch phone must reach X Dimensions for it to be functional. I don't believe Apple will be creating a non touch screen phone hence a iphone nano is not possible as the screen size will be too small to make the software workable.
Or it just sounds like to me they don't think it will be good to put their software on a smaller phone as it would make navigating too hard
I definetely get the feeling from his part that smaller phones are cheaper lower end products then the iphone. I think thats because Apple must feel that the screen size for a touch phone must reach X Dimensions for it to be functional. I don't believe Apple will be creating a non touch screen phone hence a iphone nano is not possible as the screen size will be too small to make the software workable.
Or it just sounds like to me they don't think it will be good to put their software on a smaller phone as it would make navigating too hard
You can actually shave quite a bit of space off the current iphone without reducing the screen size. My guess is the next iphone will be angular, and maybe even move that button behind or to the side. Er actually i shall make a mockup, excuse the bodge i dont have time to polish it.
This design would tie in with some of the behind-the-screen technologies in recent patents .
Or maybe as a bit of showmanship in June Apple could launch the OS, initially minus Jobs, and cap off the event by having him hit the stage with one more thing, i.e. the netbook. It's got Jobs written all over it. I can hardly wait.
They should fake his death just before the event, then have him return as the one more thing himself, maybe wearing a jesus outfit. That would make the headlines. hmm silly idea
they didn't say they would never release one.. there just won't be one coming this quarter. He did say.."We're watching that space". They want to be sure it's not just a fad before they pursue it and I don't blame them. Personally I wouldn't invest in a netbook, I would invest in a macbook pro first. I do need to do mixing with LogicPro and a netbook won't cut it. to me.. the handheld field is potentially greater than any netbook field.
I own a netbook (taht I confess, I tried to get OSX working on). It was a workable (yay, two-finger scroll) but unstable solution. I also spent on the higher side for a large disk, and the resulting laptop was overpriced.
The main problem, stability issues aside, was the completely shitty hardware software integration. The laptop "came" with windows, and the touchpad drivers for XP were ok, but windows XP just completely sucks with a 600 pixel height monitor.
Linux and OSX looked and worked better, but didn't have the customizable drivers (ie, I couldn't turn off the touch-to-click, which resulted in many mistyped docs as there was no room to rest the base of my hands while typing).
All in all, compared to my aluminum macbook, it's completely unusable.
I still maintain, as with all slick and feature-rich technology in a smaller form factor, it will command a Higher selling price.
I do not understand why this is so difficult to comprehend.
If Apple is working on an iPhone Nano, will ALL the functionality of the current 3G, Plus it's super thin and smaller, why does everyone expect this will sell for less than $199.00
I would expect it would sell for $399 or higher.
This is EXACTLY how Apple pushes the industry.
Apple would have bragging rights, like with the Mackbook Air.
"Smallest, Thinnest, Smartphone, with All the functionality and more of the current 3G"
Another person who still believes they pay $199 for an iPhone.
An iPhone costs around $600-700, this is taken into consideration when pricing up your phone plans. In places where the networks sell the iPhone without a contract they are charging $700 for the phone.
So a $399 iPhone Nano would indeed be much cheaper and would see most carriers giving it away "free" with a contract.
COOK WROTE :: "You know us, we're not going to play in the low-end voice phone business. That's not who we are. That's not why we're here. We'll let somebody do that, our goal is not to be the unit share leader in the phone industry. It is to build the best phone."
The best phone? Why not include the basic features found on every single phone? Without them, you cant be the best phone. You lack video, MMS, copy and paste, flash etc...
Add these features and you probably got the best phone... Without them, you are a joke.
I think Apple, like Intel, have mistaken what the netbook/travel companion market is.
Intel is afraid that netbooks are canabalizing the sales of laptops (with more expensive and higher profit CPUs). Apple seems to have the same concern.
I believe they are both mistaken in their beliefs.
From what I have seen and based upon conversations with people purchasing them, I have concluded that the largest group of people are those who were not shopping for a conventional notebook at all. They specifically wanted something like the netbook which is small and easy to carry and did not need a powerful laptop for its intended uses which would mostly be to check email and send a few pictures to family/friends when traveling.
The size and weight seemed to be the most important consideration. If these devices are canabalizing anything, it would be so called smart phones, which are not very smart at all in the experience of a lot of people.
Intel's sales/revenue are down. True, but the Atom processors have been a bright spot. People are purchasing the netbooks in addition to a more powerful laptop.
There is also something fun about these things from the responses I have received.
The price points are important, at least in part, because these devices are competing with wireless telephone handsets. The fact that people will be dragging them around with on the occasions when they simply do not want to be burdened with all that a conventional laptop entails reinforces my conclusion that netbook sales are in addition to laptop sales.
Let's face it, the Atom - Ion platform will enable people to watch movies, including HD, do a limited amount of photo editing to get things ready to email and stay in touch.
Both Intel and M$ are trying to screw up this market with their inane restrictions and some of the manufacturers are beginning to respond by moving to completely different processors so they had both better watch out or it could be that instead of having problems delivering all the Atoms that are being ordered, Intel could lose those sales as well. M$, for their part, is trying to shove Vista down everyone's throats with their restrictions on the hardware XP can be installed on. Let's face it. Reports are that Vista chokes these little machines to death. Now M$ is trying to push a stripped down version of Vista that is unlikely to make anyone happy. On the other hand, Windows 7 beta is reported to be working well on these machines. Hint to M$: let people have XP until Win 7 is ready!
You probably have been wondering when I was going to talk about Apple. Well, they have been left out because they just don't get it. They also will miss sales to Mac users who like the device enough to buy it without it being an Apple product. Apple appears to simply not care about being a part of the new market segment. It will be their loss.
I dun like the direction on how netbook is going (getting more powerful and all while its suppoze to only be able to web browsing and type emails.) And Im glad apple is not making a cheapo netbook.
Tranlated from AppleSpeak: "Apple will offer a "premium" NetBook soon at slightly above the $500 price point.". It is likely that Apple will offer a display with higher resolution (similar to the new HP 2140) instead of the 1024x600 LCD found in many low-end NetBooks. It is also likely that the Apple netbook will be based on a dual core Atom with the new NVidia chipset.
Of course, Apple will claim that the new Apple netbook is not a "netbook"...
Translate from AppleSpeak "You will buy what we give you and you will like paying a higher price for it."
How do you get from "low-end voice phones" to that meaning iPhone nanos??!! What rubbish! The question asked wasn't even about an iPhone nano, it was about markets like India wanting a mass of cheap phones.
Most people requesting and iPhone nano have wanted it to still be a smartphone, but with a few less features (eg WiFi and GPS) to reduce its cost. It might also be a little smaller but not enough to make the virtual keyboard too small. All the rumors also suggest it will still be a smartphone.
An iPhone nano would never compete in the "low end voice phones" market. That's the junk market - of course Apple wouldn't compete there.
The iPhone nano on the other hand would compete in the mid range of the smartphone market.
So to suggest that this statement by Tim Cook rules out the iPhone nano is utter nonsense and suggests the writer couldn't wait to say "I told you so" and forgot to analyze the comment and its context.
Comments
Mac nano (updated mac mini)
and
MacBook nano (Not called a Net Book).
(Just a couple thoughts).
Apple is wonderful at dishing the "DisInformation".
I don't really see the point in a Netbook for Apple anyway - isn't that what the iPhone is for?
In some respects, netbooks are really small, iPhone is ridiculously small. Note books and phones are polar opposites of the portable device spectrum, something in between can be nice to have.
In others, I really don't think iPhones can really replace what a netbook can do. The form factor is very different and fits different uses. Netbooks can operate regular desktop software without changes. I think they're mostly machines for people that need a machine to run desktop software but need to carry them a lot more than they actually use them, because carrying something for hours at a time can be fatiguing.
I hope Apple can somehow find a way to satisfy this market if it's a market that is here to stay, and can do it in a way that doesn't undercut their regular notebooks needlessly.
I don't understand the reasoning behind the iphone nano being a low end part of the market. There are plenty of expensive small phones out there and the market is dying for a touch phone that is not smart phone oriented but more multimedia oriented. Size is an issue and having a small phone with GOOD software like stated above would be the holy grail.
It may be a misdirection on Tim Cook's part to say Apple isn't going to be making a low end phone, I agree that a more compact iphone isn't going to be much less of a premium device than the regular one is.
First of all, it's important to note that the next version of the Mac OS will be leaner, more efficient and that bodes well for any future Apple version of a computer in the netbook space. There is a limit to what can be done with hardware, though that, too, will improve as the months move along. But if the OS is made significantly more efficient, that's a very good way of extracting more performance out of a netbook device, keeping in mind, also, that there will be less storage on such a device, making it all the more important for the OS to have a reduced footprint.
Apple has a history of bringing products to market when they are ready and not a second before. It's not just about making a better product than the competition. It's about gaining the trust of consumers. If sales of Apple laptops are good now it's because of all those younger buyers who enjoyed using their ipods. In other words, in addition to the ipod being the best portable music device on the market, it also improved Apple's reputation with a very important demographic.
On another front, in regards to Apple's desktops, they are all way, way overdue for a makeover. That combined with the impending release of a new OS means a lot of potential Apple desktop buyers are waiting for the new systems. I don't doubt that within the next few months ? if not this quarter then the next one ? there will be new iMacs, minis, and pro desktops. And the OS is also due shortly.
My guess is we'll see the current desktop redesigns first, followed shortly by the OS which may or may not come to market in tandem with Apple's version of a netbook. That schedule will keep everyone interested and before you know it we'll be due for the next batch of ipods.
I'm guessing all the new stuff will be unleashed before Mr. Jobs re-emerges if only to prove a point, namely that Apple is bigger than Jobs. The biggest concern holding the stock back has to be worries that if Jobs goes, the magic goes with him. What better way to dispel that notion than to re-do all the desktops, the OS, and enter the netbook space before Jobs has stepped back into the picture. Or maybe as a bit of showmanship in June Apple could launch the OS, initially minus Jobs, and cap off the event by having him hit the stage with one more thing, i.e. the netbook. It's got Jobs written all over it. I can hardly wait.
I have no doubt that Apple could make a nice netbook for $525. Take the shell of a white macbook, put in a 10.5" screen, add in the necessary ports (2 USB, power, and video), 2GB RAM, Wifi, Bluetooth, add in snow leopard. Options for HD or SSD, Voila.
iLife and iWork would be $99 upgrades.
t.
It may be a misdirection on Tim Cook's part to say Apple isn't going to be making a low end phone, I agree that a more compact iphone isn't going to be much less of a premium device than the regular one is.
I definetely get the feeling from his part that smaller phones are cheaper lower end products then the iphone. I think thats because Apple must feel that the screen size for a touch phone must reach X Dimensions for it to be functional. I don't believe Apple will be creating a non touch screen phone hence a iphone nano is not possible as the screen size will be too small to make the software workable.
Or it just sounds like to me they don't think it will be good to put their software on a smaller phone as it would make navigating too hard
I definetely get the feeling from his part that smaller phones are cheaper lower end products then the iphone. I think thats because Apple must feel that the screen size for a touch phone must reach X Dimensions for it to be functional. I don't believe Apple will be creating a non touch screen phone hence a iphone nano is not possible as the screen size will be too small to make the software workable.
Or it just sounds like to me they don't think it will be good to put their software on a smaller phone as it would make navigating too hard
You can actually shave quite a bit of space off the current iphone without reducing the screen size. My guess is the next iphone will be angular, and maybe even move that button behind or to the side. Er actually i shall make a mockup, excuse the bodge i dont have time to polish it.
This design would tie in with some of the behind-the-screen technologies in recent patents .
Or maybe as a bit of showmanship in June Apple could launch the OS, initially minus Jobs, and cap off the event by having him hit the stage with one more thing, i.e. the netbook. It's got Jobs written all over it. I can hardly wait.
They should fake his death just before the event, then have him return as the one more thing himself, maybe wearing a jesus outfit. That would make the headlines. hmm silly idea
they didn't say they would never release one.. there just won't be one coming this quarter. He did say.."We're watching that space". They want to be sure it's not just a fad before they pursue it and I don't blame them. Personally I wouldn't invest in a netbook, I would invest in a macbook pro first. I do need to do mixing with LogicPro and a netbook won't cut it. to me.. the handheld field is potentially greater than any netbook field.
I own a netbook (taht I confess, I tried to get OSX working on). It was a workable (yay, two-finger scroll) but unstable solution. I also spent on the higher side for a large disk, and the resulting laptop was overpriced.
The main problem, stability issues aside, was the completely shitty hardware software integration. The laptop "came" with windows, and the touchpad drivers for XP were ok, but windows XP just completely sucks with a 600 pixel height monitor.
Linux and OSX looked and worked better, but didn't have the customizable drivers (ie, I couldn't turn off the touch-to-click, which resulted in many mistyped docs as there was no room to rest the base of my hands while typing).
All in all, compared to my aluminum macbook, it's completely unusable.
ONLY rules out a cheap iPhone Nano.
I still maintain, as with all slick and feature-rich technology in a smaller form factor, it will command a Higher selling price.
I do not understand why this is so difficult to comprehend.
If Apple is working on an iPhone Nano, will ALL the functionality of the current 3G, Plus it's super thin and smaller, why does everyone expect this will sell for less than $199.00
I would expect it would sell for $399 or higher.
This is EXACTLY how Apple pushes the industry.
Apple would have bragging rights, like with the Mackbook Air.
"Smallest, Thinnest, Smartphone, with All the functionality and more of the current 3G"
Another person who still believes they pay $199 for an iPhone.
An iPhone costs around $600-700, this is taken into consideration when pricing up your phone plans. In places where the networks sell the iPhone without a contract they are charging $700 for the phone.
So a $399 iPhone Nano would indeed be much cheaper and would see most carriers giving it away "free" with a contract.
I just bought an HP Mini 1000 netbook for ~$400. I would have gladly paid $550 for a 10 inch "Macbook Mini" for $525.
That's not Apple's market. They do not ever want to get into the trap of being the low-price leader.
The best phone? Why not include the basic features found on every single phone? Without them, you cant be the best phone. You lack video, MMS, copy and paste, flash etc...
Add these features and you probably got the best phone... Without them, you are a joke.
Intel is afraid that netbooks are canabalizing the sales of laptops (with more expensive and higher profit CPUs). Apple seems to have the same concern.
I believe they are both mistaken in their beliefs.
From what I have seen and based upon conversations with people purchasing them, I have concluded that the largest group of people are those who were not shopping for a conventional notebook at all. They specifically wanted something like the netbook which is small and easy to carry and did not need a powerful laptop for its intended uses which would mostly be to check email and send a few pictures to family/friends when traveling.
The size and weight seemed to be the most important consideration. If these devices are canabalizing anything, it would be so called smart phones, which are not very smart at all in the experience of a lot of people.
Intel's sales/revenue are down. True, but the Atom processors have been a bright spot. People are purchasing the netbooks in addition to a more powerful laptop.
There is also something fun about these things from the responses I have received.
The price points are important, at least in part, because these devices are competing with wireless telephone handsets. The fact that people will be dragging them around with on the occasions when they simply do not want to be burdened with all that a conventional laptop entails reinforces my conclusion that netbook sales are in addition to laptop sales.
Let's face it, the Atom - Ion platform will enable people to watch movies, including HD, do a limited amount of photo editing to get things ready to email and stay in touch.
Both Intel and M$ are trying to screw up this market with their inane restrictions and some of the manufacturers are beginning to respond by moving to completely different processors so they had both better watch out or it could be that instead of having problems delivering all the Atoms that are being ordered, Intel could lose those sales as well. M$, for their part, is trying to shove Vista down everyone's throats with their restrictions on the hardware XP can be installed on. Let's face it. Reports are that Vista chokes these little machines to death. Now M$ is trying to push a stripped down version of Vista that is unlikely to make anyone happy. On the other hand, Windows 7 beta is reported to be working well on these machines. Hint to M$: let people have XP until Win 7 is ready!
You probably have been wondering when I was going to talk about Apple. Well, they have been left out because they just don't get it. They also will miss sales to Mac users who like the device enough to buy it without it being an Apple product. Apple appears to simply not care about being a part of the new market segment. It will be their loss.
Tranlated from AppleSpeak: "Apple will offer a "premium" NetBook soon at slightly above the $500 price point.". It is likely that Apple will offer a display with higher resolution (similar to the new HP 2140) instead of the 1024x600 LCD found in many low-end NetBooks. It is also likely that the Apple netbook will be based on a dual core Atom with the new NVidia chipset.
Of course, Apple will claim that the new Apple netbook is not a "netbook"...
Translate from AppleSpeak "You will buy what we give you and you will like paying a higher price for it."
Most people requesting and iPhone nano have wanted it to still be a smartphone, but with a few less features (eg WiFi and GPS) to reduce its cost. It might also be a little smaller but not enough to make the virtual keyboard too small. All the rumors also suggest it will still be a smartphone.
An iPhone nano would never compete in the "low end voice phones" market. That's the junk market - of course Apple wouldn't compete there.
The iPhone nano on the other hand would compete in the mid range of the smartphone market.
So to suggest that this statement by Tim Cook rules out the iPhone nano is utter nonsense and suggests the writer couldn't wait to say "I told you so" and forgot to analyze the comment and its context.