Actually I would wager their is a lot more software that is distributed by the internet than their is being sold on a physical disc in stores. At this point its primarily only the largest apps that need to be installed from a disc, their are thousands of small to medium size apps that are available for download. Most developers I can think of only offer their software for download.
Looking at my own example, the only application I've installed from a disc in 2008 was Leopard. The past couple of years the only other app I installed from a disc was MS Office.
Other than those two all the other apps I've installed over the past couple of years have primarily been internet downloads.
I guess it depends on how you look at it, bytes, titles, or package (ie quicktime 7.5, 7.6). And are you considering illegal download? All Macs are sold with DVD's (Mac OS and iLife). Printers are sold with their drivers on CD's or DVD's. All the large software developers sell their software in stores with colorful boxes. So there is lots of software being distributed on discs.
If I want people to see any of my home/event movies they need to be on DVD (as well as online). The vast majority of people still use DVD players to watch movies because of the simplicity of use. Most of my friends and members of my family don't use computers beyond a bit of shopping and using facebook. Its only technophiles that can be bothered to link a computer to a tv. Why the hell would my silver haired old granny want to use youtube or whatever instead of a nice big tv to look at home movies. iDVD still has a place. Don't get me wrong, I use the net for most things but I am in the minority.
No I'm not considering illegal downloads, I'm talking about software that is either freeware or legally purchased. The major software developers that sell large/expensive software packages do sell them in retail packaging.
Small developers rarely to never sell retail software. Their are many more small developers who only distribute their software online. Most major software companies (Google, Yahoo, Adobe, AOL, Apple, Microsoft) are building online software services.
The last printer I bought. The drivers that came on the CD were old and did not properly work, I had to download the newer drivers.
A small sample of software apps distributed online:
-Pixelmator
-Quicktime
-Handbreak
-Audio Hijack Pro
-VLC
-Safari
-Toast Titanium
-Wire Tap Pro
-Firefox
-SuperDuper
-Google Earth
-EyeTV
-Flash
-Snapz Pro X
-Adobe PDF Reader
-Apple Aperture
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123
I guess it depends on how you look at it, bytes, titles, or package (ie quicktime 7.5, 7.6). And are you considering illegal download? All Macs are sold with DVD's (Mac OS and iLife). Printers are sold with their drivers on CD's or DVD's. All the large software developers sell their software in stores with colorful boxes. So there is lots of software being distributed on discs.
I guess I'm misspeaking... I do mean optical media, not physical media. you need to store the data somewhere... even in the "cloud" is physically on a drive, just a server drive and not your own drive. I'm seeing a world with no music, or video, or software being sold on discs anymore.
why go to the store and buy a cd if you can get the music from itunes... the same theory applies to movies, and eventually software. of course the cost of video is still too high IMO to replace DVD, but it's coming. Movie studios still feel that DVD's is how most people want to get their content, and until that changes, they will continue to put resources there instead of into digital distribution. Once that happens and costs come down, you will start to see the change. I think people that think this is going to happen in 1-2 years are a little overboard, but it's coming sooner than later.
You have to understand, internet services are not being set up for your silver haired granny.
Internet services are being set up for people 30 and under who are becoming more accustomed to downloading media than purchasing physical media.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workshy
. Its only technophiles that can be bothered to link a computer to a tv. Why the hell would my silver haired old granny want to use youtube or whatever instead of a nice big tv to look at home movies. iDVD still has a place. Don't get me wrong, I use the net for most things but I am in the minority.
Would ImageBoot provide a potential way to install Snow Leopard (or any OS for that matter) without the use of an external source (be it a disc, hard drive or flash drive)?
Quote:
ImageBoot
When it makes its debut, likely at WWDC 2009, Snow Leopard will also introduce a new, third option for disc image-based installation called ImageBoot. Based on Apple's existing NetBoot technology, which allows Macs to boot from a remote disk over the network, ImageBoot will allow users to set up any number of disk images on a secondary partition or external drive, and then selectively boot their system from any one of those disk images at startup.
This new feature will allow users to set up a series of test environments or uniquely configured Mac OS X systems, store the bootable systems as discrete disk images, and subsequently store multiple boot targets on the same disk or partition. Currently, only one bootable Mac OS X installation can be stored on a given disk partition.
With ImageBoot, multiple NetBoot sets can be maintained locally on the same storage partition, and the user can select any one of the disk images available to boot from without having to restore or mount the disk image first. The result is a system that works similar to virtualization software such as Parallels, which can create disk images for different PC operating systems and selectively boot from any of them. The difference is that Mac OS X isn't booting up in a virtual environment; it actually boots a fully native Mac OS X system.
Lot of you guys sound like a bunch of teens, who operate in a time horizon that's not lasting longer than half a school year.
Media needs to be archived!
I can still look at B&W photographs of my great-grand parents, or some oil-paintings of some even longer deceased ancestors.
So now we have the video crazy world, heck, we have even cheap HD cameras.
Do you think you great-grandson will still have that link on youTube where you posted your massively quality degraded version?
Online video distribution is nice for a quick share, it has no pupose for high-quality video that becomes part of a family history. And that's just for private stuff.
There are plenty of low-budget movies/videos being made that don't need any fancy DVD authoring, and iDVD does the trick just fine, furhter for anything from example reels, photo portfolios, etc. that you may want to stick in an envelope along with your resume it is perfectly well suited, DVD Studio Pro is overkill for that.
I completely agree. There is nothing sufficiently 'new' about either Blu-ray or HD-DVD for either of them to have succeeded. What came after CD'S? DVD_Audio? No, the internet replaced CD's. Keeping music on hard drives—which keep upping available storage—and sharing/buying music online is the standard today. Offline options? Keychain USB flash drives, getting more capacity at lower prices all the time. Less consumption of raw materials equals less money spent on manufacturing and more money spent directly on music.
I guess I must have missed the headline announcing CD's death. Last thing I read was that CD was STILL 80% of all music sold. Yep, certainly seems like the internet has replaced CDs. When did 20% make anything a standard?
Also, comparing Blu-Ray to DVD-Audio (or SACD) isn't very accurate. Unlike Blu-Ray, DVD-A/SACD was never well supported by the studios. Even SACD's creator, Sony, didn't bother to release much of anything on the format. The situation was worsened when one of the studios introduced the DualDisc format.
And these USB flash drives you're depending on to kill Blu-Ray discs. They currently seem to top off at 64GB, not much more space than a Blu-Ray disc. Of course, they're also in the $120 range for consumers. I don't know how much cheaper those might be if purchased in bulk by a movie studio, but even then printing a Blu-Ray is still going to be many many magnitudes cheaper. And talking about hard drives, you quickly run out of space. A 1TB drive might give you space for 50 Blu-Ray quality movies. Then it's off to buy another one.
Quote:
This story is now getting repeated with movies. Blu-Ray discs are the same size and shape of DVDs, but with more capacity and zero compatibility with existing hardware. Movies downloaded—legally or otherwise—have as good or better quality and work on most people's existing machines.
Where are you getting downloads that are higher quality than Blu-Ray's? The answer is nowhere. The best you're going to download is ILLEGAL rips of Blu-Rays. Most downloads and streams top out at 720p. None of them (except maybe the illegal rips) offer Blu-Ray's lossless audio. All of them are low bit rate. Certainly doesn't sound as good as Blu-Ray (and definitely not better).
And exactly how are downloads/streams any more compatible when you want to watch them on your TV? The only way that would even be vaguely true is if everyone hooks their computer up to their TV. Without hooking up your computer to the TV, download services are pretty much completely incompatible. Netflix streaming is only available on the Roku box, Xbox 360 and HD TiVos. iTunes HD movies can only be viewed via the AppleTV and standard iTunes video can only be viewed via AppleTV or an iPod connected to the TV. Live Marketplace videos are only available on the Xbox 360. Playstation Store videos are only available on the PS3. Amazon Unbox is only available on TiVo. Vudu content requires a Vudu box. That certainly sounds like an awful mess of compatibility. You can pick up any Blu-Ray player and KNOW you'll be able to play any Blu-Ray movie.
I guess I'm misspeaking... I do mean optical media, not physical media. you need to store the data somewhere... even in the "cloud" is physically on a drive, just a server drive and not your own drive. I'm seeing a world with no music, or video, or software being sold on discs anymore.
why go to the store and buy a cd if you can get the music from itunes... the same theory applies to movies, and eventually software. of course the cost of video is still too high IMO to replace DVD, but it's coming. Movie studios still feel that DVD's is how most people want to get their content, and until that changes, they will continue to put resources there instead of into digital distribution. Once that happens and costs come down, you will start to see the change. I think people that think this is going to happen in 1-2 years are a little overboard, but it's coming sooner than later.
There are lots of benefits to downloading movies and software, but there are lots of obstacles too. There is the monthly bandwidth caps being proposed by ISP (both DSL and cable). And using movies as an example, many people don't want to replace their DVD players when they work pretty darn well, especially if they have a large movie collection.
I think download will come, but it is going to come much easier for those that don't have many DVD's.
I think CD and DVD or whichever will be their physical media successor will go the same way as the hardcopy (printout) when the computer revolutionized the office. Physical media will stay. The amount of paper going to the landfill has even increased although the general believing was that the paper industry will go down because no one needs paper anymore!
I noticed I made the mistake of referring to 'physical media' when in actual fact my beef is with optical discs.
Just for the record I do not think all physical media will die, phones, flash drives, and HD will still exist for a while, though their days are also numbered in the long sight.
Merely an example of why iDVD is still useful. Not everyone lives life via a computer screen getting frustrated because the tech world isn't moving forward fast enough.
Merely an example of why iDVD is still useful. Not everyone lives life via a computer screen getting frustrated because the tech world isn't moving forward fast enough.
I am another person who uses iDVD on a frequent basis and want this option for sharing movies, photos, etc. I have created several movies and/or slideshows that are on a larger scale than some quick little 3-5 minute video someone might post on MobileMe, etc. Also, MobileMe does not provide enough storage for the type of projects I want to create, and buying additional storage on MobileMe is on the pricey side. Most people I know would rather have a DVD they can watch on their TV. While I might put a shorter video on MobileMe where I can selectively share it, I want the option to burn to a disc. Whether in time that becomes Blu-Ray or something else remains to be seen. However, for now, iDVD is a well-used app on my computer. JMO. \
Look guys, I firmly believe downloading is the future of video distribution. And even I like iDVD.
Disc-burning isn't going to disappear just because downloading becomes prevalent.
I don't think that Apple's online moves are the sole reason iDVD is being ignored like this.
Most people aren't aware that iDVD adds a serious cost on to the iLife suite.
Apple has to pay a DVD licence for each copy.
That used to be something like $20., but I don't know what it is currently.
If disc-burning isn't the primary way that iMovies are shared in the future, it seems reasonable that Apple might pull iDVD out of the suite and make it available on its own. That way, those who are using its capabilities are the ones to pay for it.
I always laugh at you small percentage of people who sit at your computer all day and think everyone else loves the puke that is youtube. There are many who prefer to watch movies that aren't 30% macroblocking, washed out colour and tinny sound.
The reason blu-ray is taking off like wildfire now is b/c it can carry up to 50 GB of data. Try downloading that in your mom's basement!
Youtube is for for the same people who love 192 kbps mp3's and can't understand why anyone would want to buy a CD. Ugh, some people need to remove the sh!t from their ears and eyes.
Look guys, I firmly believe downloading is the future of video distribution. And even I like iDVD.
Disc-burning isn't going to disappear just because downloading becomes prevalent.
I don't think that Apple's online moves are the sole reason iDVD is being ignored like this.
Most people aren't aware that iDVD adds a serious cost on to the iLife suite.
Apple has to pay a DVD licence for each copy.
That used to be something like $20., but I don't know what it is currently.
If disc-burning isn't the primary way that iMovies are shared in the future, it seems reasonable that Apple might pull iDVD out of the suite and make it available on its own. That way, those who are using its capabilities are the ones to pay for it.
I think that's what Apple's preparing for here.
I think the true reason is that big blu elephant in the room. Apple isn't adopting blu-ray and iDVD only opens the door to the question of "why can't we burn movies on blu-ray?"
I think the true reason is that big blu elephant in the room. Apple isn't adopting blu-ray and iDVD only opens the door to the question of "why can't we burn movies on blu-ray?"
Possible. But trading home movies on Blu-Ray is still a ways off as well.
BR is just getting to the point where it's affordable for the mainstream, so if you're giving out iMovies to a bunch of friends in '09, you're giving out DVDs.
Comments
Actually I would wager their is a lot more software that is distributed by the internet than their is being sold on a physical disc in stores. At this point its primarily only the largest apps that need to be installed from a disc, their are thousands of small to medium size apps that are available for download. Most developers I can think of only offer their software for download.
Looking at my own example, the only application I've installed from a disc in 2008 was Leopard. The past couple of years the only other app I installed from a disc was MS Office.
Other than those two all the other apps I've installed over the past couple of years have primarily been internet downloads.
I guess it depends on how you look at it, bytes, titles, or package (ie quicktime 7.5, 7.6). And are you considering illegal download? All Macs are sold with DVD's (Mac OS and iLife). Printers are sold with their drivers on CD's or DVD's. All the large software developers sell their software in stores with colorful boxes. So there is lots of software being distributed on discs.
Small developers rarely to never sell retail software. Their are many more small developers who only distribute their software online. Most major software companies (Google, Yahoo, Adobe, AOL, Apple, Microsoft) are building online software services.
The last printer I bought. The drivers that came on the CD were old and did not properly work, I had to download the newer drivers.
A small sample of software apps distributed online:
-Pixelmator
-Quicktime
-Handbreak
-Audio Hijack Pro
-VLC
-Safari
-Toast Titanium
-Wire Tap Pro
-Firefox
-SuperDuper
-Google Earth
-EyeTV
-Flash
-Snapz Pro X
-Adobe PDF Reader
-Apple Aperture
I guess it depends on how you look at it, bytes, titles, or package (ie quicktime 7.5, 7.6). And are you considering illegal download? All Macs are sold with DVD's (Mac OS and iLife). Printers are sold with their drivers on CD's or DVD's. All the large software developers sell their software in stores with colorful boxes. So there is lots of software being distributed on discs.
why go to the store and buy a cd if you can get the music from itunes... the same theory applies to movies, and eventually software. of course the cost of video is still too high IMO to replace DVD, but it's coming. Movie studios still feel that DVD's is how most people want to get their content, and until that changes, they will continue to put resources there instead of into digital distribution. Once that happens and costs come down, you will start to see the change. I think people that think this is going to happen in 1-2 years are a little overboard, but it's coming sooner than later.
Internet services are being set up for people 30 and under who are becoming more accustomed to downloading media than purchasing physical media.
. Its only technophiles that can be bothered to link a computer to a tv. Why the hell would my silver haired old granny want to use youtube or whatever instead of a nice big tv to look at home movies. iDVD still has a place. Don't get me wrong, I use the net for most things but I am in the minority.
Why the hell would my silver haired old granny want to use youtube
Bit of a niche market that
ImageBoot
When it makes its debut, likely at WWDC 2009, Snow Leopard will also introduce a new, third option for disc image-based installation called ImageBoot. Based on Apple's existing NetBoot technology, which allows Macs to boot from a remote disk over the network, ImageBoot will allow users to set up any number of disk images on a secondary partition or external drive, and then selectively boot their system from any one of those disk images at startup.
This new feature will allow users to set up a series of test environments or uniquely configured Mac OS X systems, store the bootable systems as discrete disk images, and subsequently store multiple boot targets on the same disk or partition. Currently, only one bootable Mac OS X installation can be stored on a given disk partition.
With ImageBoot, multiple NetBoot sets can be maintained locally on the same storage partition, and the user can select any one of the disk images available to boot from without having to restore or mount the disk image first. The result is a system that works similar to virtualization software such as Parallels, which can create disk images for different PC operating systems and selectively boot from any of them. The difference is that Mac OS X isn't booting up in a virtual environment; it actually boots a fully native Mac OS X system.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...imageboot.html
Media needs to be archived!
I can still look at B&W photographs of my great-grand parents, or some oil-paintings of some even longer deceased ancestors.
So now we have the video crazy world, heck, we have even cheap HD cameras.
Do you think you great-grandson will still have that link on youTube where you posted your massively quality degraded version?
Online video distribution is nice for a quick share, it has no pupose for high-quality video that becomes part of a family history. And that's just for private stuff.
There are plenty of low-budget movies/videos being made that don't need any fancy DVD authoring, and iDVD does the trick just fine, furhter for anything from example reels, photo portfolios, etc. that you may want to stick in an envelope along with your resume it is perfectly well suited, DVD Studio Pro is overkill for that.
I completely agree. There is nothing sufficiently 'new' about either Blu-ray or HD-DVD for either of them to have succeeded. What came after CD'S? DVD_Audio? No, the internet replaced CD's. Keeping music on hard drives—which keep upping available storage—and sharing/buying music online is the standard today. Offline options? Keychain USB flash drives, getting more capacity at lower prices all the time. Less consumption of raw materials equals less money spent on manufacturing and more money spent directly on music.
I guess I must have missed the headline announcing CD's death. Last thing I read was that CD was STILL 80% of all music sold. Yep, certainly seems like the internet has replaced CDs. When did 20% make anything a standard?
Also, comparing Blu-Ray to DVD-Audio (or SACD) isn't very accurate. Unlike Blu-Ray, DVD-A/SACD was never well supported by the studios. Even SACD's creator, Sony, didn't bother to release much of anything on the format. The situation was worsened when one of the studios introduced the DualDisc format.
And these USB flash drives you're depending on to kill Blu-Ray discs. They currently seem to top off at 64GB, not much more space than a Blu-Ray disc. Of course, they're also in the $120 range for consumers. I don't know how much cheaper those might be if purchased in bulk by a movie studio, but even then printing a Blu-Ray is still going to be many many magnitudes cheaper. And talking about hard drives, you quickly run out of space. A 1TB drive might give you space for 50 Blu-Ray quality movies. Then it's off to buy another one.
This story is now getting repeated with movies. Blu-Ray discs are the same size and shape of DVDs, but with more capacity and zero compatibility with existing hardware. Movies downloaded—legally or otherwise—have as good or better quality and work on most people's existing machines.
Where are you getting downloads that are higher quality than Blu-Ray's? The answer is nowhere. The best you're going to download is ILLEGAL rips of Blu-Rays. Most downloads and streams top out at 720p. None of them (except maybe the illegal rips) offer Blu-Ray's lossless audio. All of them are low bit rate. Certainly doesn't sound as good as Blu-Ray (and definitely not better).
And exactly how are downloads/streams any more compatible when you want to watch them on your TV? The only way that would even be vaguely true is if everyone hooks their computer up to their TV. Without hooking up your computer to the TV, download services are pretty much completely incompatible. Netflix streaming is only available on the Roku box, Xbox 360 and HD TiVos. iTunes HD movies can only be viewed via the AppleTV and standard iTunes video can only be viewed via AppleTV or an iPod connected to the TV. Live Marketplace videos are only available on the Xbox 360. Playstation Store videos are only available on the PS3. Amazon Unbox is only available on TiVo. Vudu content requires a Vudu box. That certainly sounds like an awful mess of compatibility. You can pick up any Blu-Ray player and KNOW you'll be able to play any Blu-Ray movie.
I guess I'm misspeaking... I do mean optical media, not physical media. you need to store the data somewhere... even in the "cloud" is physically on a drive, just a server drive and not your own drive. I'm seeing a world with no music, or video, or software being sold on discs anymore.
why go to the store and buy a cd if you can get the music from itunes... the same theory applies to movies, and eventually software. of course the cost of video is still too high IMO to replace DVD, but it's coming. Movie studios still feel that DVD's is how most people want to get their content, and until that changes, they will continue to put resources there instead of into digital distribution. Once that happens and costs come down, you will start to see the change. I think people that think this is going to happen in 1-2 years are a little overboard, but it's coming sooner than later.
There are lots of benefits to downloading movies and software, but there are lots of obstacles too. There is the monthly bandwidth caps being proposed by ISP (both DSL and cable). And using movies as an example, many people don't want to replace their DVD players when they work pretty darn well, especially if they have a large movie collection.
I think download will come, but it is going to come much easier for those that don't have many DVD's.
You know, I am tired of hearing this excuse. Windows can do it with out fail so why can't Leopard?
Windows fails everytime it wakes up.
And the sluggishness of Vista may have a lot to do with being weighed down by Blu-Ray's DRM.
So Apple may actually have Sony to thank for its current market success since Vista's public rejection.
Just for the record I do not think all physical media will die, phones, flash drives, and HD will still exist for a while, though their days are also numbered in the long sight.
Bit of a niche market that
Merely an example of why iDVD is still useful. Not everyone lives life via a computer screen getting frustrated because the tech world isn't moving forward fast enough.
Merely an example of why iDVD is still useful. Not everyone lives life via a computer screen getting frustrated because the tech world isn't moving forward fast enough.
Some are moving faster than others
Digital Britain ...interesting name. Let's hope they don't muck it up with too much anti piracy.
Disc-burning isn't going to disappear just because downloading becomes prevalent.
I don't think that Apple's online moves are the sole reason iDVD is being ignored like this.
Most people aren't aware that iDVD adds a serious cost on to the iLife suite.
Apple has to pay a DVD licence for each copy.
That used to be something like $20., but I don't know what it is currently.
If disc-burning isn't the primary way that iMovies are shared in the future, it seems reasonable that Apple might pull iDVD out of the suite and make it available on its own. That way, those who are using its capabilities are the ones to pay for it.
I think that's what Apple's preparing for here.
"Apple doesn't care about optical people"
Kanye Jobs 2009
Hahahaha,
I always laugh at you small percentage of people who sit at your computer all day and think everyone else loves the puke that is youtube. There are many who prefer to watch movies that aren't 30% macroblocking, washed out colour and tinny sound.
The reason blu-ray is taking off like wildfire now is b/c it can carry up to 50 GB of data. Try downloading that in your mom's basement!
Youtube is for for the same people who love 192 kbps mp3's and can't understand why anyone would want to buy a CD. Ugh, some people need to remove the sh!t from their ears and eyes.
Look guys, I firmly believe downloading is the future of video distribution. And even I like iDVD.
Disc-burning isn't going to disappear just because downloading becomes prevalent.
I don't think that Apple's online moves are the sole reason iDVD is being ignored like this.
Most people aren't aware that iDVD adds a serious cost on to the iLife suite.
Apple has to pay a DVD licence for each copy.
That used to be something like $20., but I don't know what it is currently.
If disc-burning isn't the primary way that iMovies are shared in the future, it seems reasonable that Apple might pull iDVD out of the suite and make it available on its own. That way, those who are using its capabilities are the ones to pay for it.
I think that's what Apple's preparing for here.
I think the true reason is that big blu elephant in the room. Apple isn't adopting blu-ray and iDVD only opens the door to the question of "why can't we burn movies on blu-ray?"
I think the true reason is that big blu elephant in the room. Apple isn't adopting blu-ray and iDVD only opens the door to the question of "why can't we burn movies on blu-ray?"
Possible. But trading home movies on Blu-Ray is still a ways off as well.
BR is just getting to the point where it's affordable for the mainstream, so if you're giving out iMovies to a bunch of friends in '09, you're giving out DVDs.