Services like Xohm aren't cell networks, so you shouldn't compare them directly. They're designed from the ground up to be wireless broadband for computers, so they're much less likely to be overloaded.
Xohm doesn't exists quite yet. We are talking about current 3G technology.
Quote:
Sorry, I don't buy that. That's just their PR. Notice AI's article on the latest lawsuit about the poor 3G performance. And that's just running iPhones with their limited capabilities. Imagine how bad performance would be if you introduced devices onto the network that use much more bandwidth and can use a lot more websites. More Hulu usage, more Flash and Silverlight, etc.
A lawsuit has nothing to do with how much money AT&T is spending on network improvements. ATT reports in the 4th quarter they spent over $400 million on network improvements.
The iPhone is just short of Linux in world wide internet use. What other devices are you talking about that would use more bandwidth, who else uses these devices?
My over all point is that other networks don't have anything like the iPhone to put their network to the test. So we don't really know how they would handle the load.
Xohm doesn't exists quite yet. We are talking about current 3G technology.
That would be news to Baltimore, as well as Clearwire users who are now Xohm users.
Quote:
A lawsuit has nothing to do with how much money AT&T is spending on network improvements. ATT reports in the 4th quarter they spent over $400 million on network improvements.
That tells me nothing. Verizon claims to be spending big bucks pulling fiber. Yet years after FiOS was available in my city, my neighborhood still doesn't have it.
Quote:
The iPhone is just short of Linux in world wide internet use. What other devices are you talking about that would use more bandwidth, who else uses these devices?
The devices this article is talking about, i.e. Macbooks with integrated 3G connectivity.
Maybe I have low expectations but when on a 3g network I find the speed to be quite good. Shoot on my iPhone I can hardly tell the difference between 3 g and wifi speed. I usually won't bother to connect to a wifi network if connected to a 3g network.
I wouldn't mind having a 3g chip inside my laptop, that would be one less dongle to have to fool with when traveling. And it would be nice to have a 3g option when traveling in case the hotel you're at wants $10 to connect to their wireless/wired network. Even today I come across an occasional hotel that tries that crap.
That would be news to Baltimore, as well as Clearwire users who are now Xohm users.
One test market doesn't equate to a currently functioning nation wide network.
It seems you need extreme specifics. I'm talking about comparing AT&T's current functional nation wide network, to other carriers currently functioning nation wide networks.
Quote:
That tells me nothing. Verizon claims to be spending big bucks pulling fiber. Yet years after FiOS was available in my city, my neighborhood still doesn't have it.
Verizon is spending billions on laying fiber. Just because your neighborhood doesn't have FiOS is not an indication that Verizon is not laying the fiber. It only means the service has not yet been activated in your neighborhood.
Verizon has begun wiring New York City. Of course they are laying fiber in Manhattan first. Within Manhattan they began with the Financial District and Midtown where the majority of the business are. They will roll the service out to Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx neighborhoods over time.
Quote:
The devices this article is talking about, i.e. Macbooks with integrated 3G connectivity.
AT&T already has integrated 3G deals with Dell, Lenovo, Panasonic, and HP.
Services like Xohm aren't cell networks, so you shouldn't compare them directly. They're designed from the ground up to be wireless broadband for computers, so they're much less likely to be overloaded.
Sorry, I don't buy that. That's just their PR. Notice AI's article on the latest lawsuit about the poor 3G performance. And that's just running iPhones with their limited capabilities. Imagine how bad performance would be if you introduced devices onto the network that use much more bandwidth and can use a lot more websites. More Hulu usage, more Flash and Silverlight, etc.
It's not PR. There is a lot of evidence to support it, including record deaths of contractors falling to their death around the orignal iPhone launch.
I have two iPhones and a Sierra Wireless USB card, all on AT&T. My 3G is almost always consideray more than 2x as fast as EDGE was... And I travel 100% of the time. Sometimes EDGE feels slower than 3G but with so many variables at play that you can't determine the reason simply because a weblage isn't loading as fast as you'd like it to.
I've done comparative testing between my original iPhone, iPhone 3G and Sierra Wireless USB card connected to a couple different MacBooks. The speeds are all comparable when using the same sites to test bandwidth. Furthermore, I've tested up to 1.8Mbps and average more than 1Mbps with 3G. That is hella faster than EDGE.
Finally, I often stream TV shows from Hulu in their higher-res 480p format while in motion on motorways and on trains with great success when 3G is available. EDGE will work but you have to buffer for considerably longer. Of course, without Flash I can't test this on the iPhone unless NBC decides to make a nifty native app for the iPhone.
? Mac growth is very string compared to the industry average.
No argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
? Why mention that all the other OEMs combined outsell Apple 9 to 1 as if all the other vendors are in league together? Apple has 10% of the US market in unit sales, which is damn good for a company that doesn't sell loss leader products.
Why mention it? Because the comment I was replying to was "But what does it matter when Macs are outselling the general PC market."
Get it now? Not very complicated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
? Most computers compete on price and superfical performance specs. Actual performance and usability is quite different.
Yes it is - 10% of the computers are clearly bought by people who value usability highly The other 90% are bought by people who place price/performance, as measured as best people can by looking at memory, hard drive and CPU.
The price/performance ratio for the majority of the computer market is generally lower price for less performance. Most people are looking at price over spec sheet.
When Apple launches a new computer, that machine is using new/expensive components and expensive design materials. Apple sells at a much lower volume and amortizes the cost of expensive components and design materials over a longer period that the larger computer makers.
Looking at Apple's sales and revenues, it is a strategy that works extremely well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
Yes it is - 10% of the computers are clearly bought by people who value usability highly The other 90% are bought by people who place price/performance, as measured as best people can by looking at memory, hard drive and CPU.
The price/performance ratio for the majority of the computer market is generally lower price for less performance. Most people are looking at price over spec sheet.
When Apple launches a new computer, that machine is using new/expensive components and expensive design materials. Apple sells at a much lower volume and amortizes the cost of expensive components and design materials over a longer period that the larger computer makers.
Looking at Apple's sales and revenues, it is a strategy that works extremely well.
One test market doesn't equate to a currently functioning nation wide network.
It seems you need extreme specifics. I'm talking about comparing AT&T's current functional nation wide network, to other carriers currently functioning nation wide networks.
That's if you truly consider it nationwide. Lots of people are still complaining about numerous holes in coverage. You're also ignoring that Clearwire is not a test market. They may be in a limited number of cities right now, and they're only pre-WiMax, but they're hardly a single test market, and they recently merged with Xohm.
Quote:
Verizon is spending billions on laying fiber. Just because your neighborhood doesn't have FiOS is not an indication that Verizon is not laying the fiber. It only means the service has not yet been activated in your neighborhood.
And just because AT&T claims they're spending hundreds of millions upgrading their network doesn't mean people actually see any improvement. As recently as November, people were still screaming online about dropped calls and slow 3G speeds on AT&T. That's quite a bit later than the iPhone 3G launch.
Quote:
AT&T already has integrated 3G deals with Dell, Lenovo, Panasonic, and HP.
I assume you're referring to their netbooks. Weren't so many people here consistently arguing that netbooks have nothing going for them except low cost? If that's the case, then widespread netbook use with 3G is unlikely, since the data plans cost at least $720 a year, more than double the cost of the netbooks themselves. The Toughbook is too rare to impact the network significantly. So I doubt any of these "deals" is stressing the network.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
It's not PR. There is a lot of evidence to support it, including record deaths of contractors falling to their death around the orignal iPhone launch.
I'm sorry, and this has to do with AT&T upgrading their 3G network how exactly? I wasn't aware that the original iPhone was 3G.
Quote:
I have two iPhones and a Sierra Wireless USB card, all on AT&T. My 3G is almost always consideray more than 2x as fast as EDGE was... And I travel 100% of the time. Sometimes EDGE feels slower than 3G but with so many variables at play that you can't determine the reason simply because a weblage isn't loading as fast as you'd like it to.
I've done comparative testing between my original iPhone, iPhone 3G and Sierra Wireless USB card connected to a couple different MacBooks. The speeds are all comparable when using the same sites to test bandwidth. Furthermore, I've tested up to 1.8Mbps and average more than 1Mbps with 3G. That is hella faster than EDGE.
Finally, I often stream TV shows from Hulu in their higher-res 480p format while in motion on motorways and on trains with great success when 3G is available. EDGE will work but you have to buffer for considerably longer. Of course, without Flash I can't test this on the iPhone unless NBC decides to make a nifty native app for the iPhone.
That's not saying much. EDGE was painfully slow on every iPhone I ever used. Why are you bringing EDGE into this anyway? Nobody mentioned EDGE. We're talking about whether the 3G network can handle increased traffic above and beyond what the limited capabilities of the iPhone 3G can do to stress it.
That's if you truly consider it nationwide. Lots of people are still complaining about numerous holes in coverage. You're also ignoring that Clearwire is not a test market. They may be in a limited number of cities right now, and they're only pre-WiMax, but they're hardly a single test market, and they recently merged with Xohm.
Yes AT&T is as nationwide as any other other carrier. None of them literally cover 100% of the nation.
My original point that you addressed, was the fact that no other US carrier has a phone that uses as much data as the iPhone. So their is no way to know if their networks would have had the same issues (or possibly even different issues) than what AT&T has had.
Quote:
And just because AT&T claims they're spending hundreds of millions upgrading their network doesn't mean people actually see any improvement. As recently as November, people were still screaming online about dropped calls and slow 3G speeds on AT&T. That's quite a bit later than the iPhone 3G launch.
No legitimate survey or research would count anonymous people complaining on internet boards as empirical data. Who knows if many of these people even really own iPhones or not.
During the summer here in New York, you could tell that AT&T's network was being strained. Things have gotten considerably better. Not to say their isn't room for more improvement.
Quote:
I assume you're referring to their netbooks. Weren't so many people here consistently arguing that netbooks have nothing going for them except low cost? If that's the case, then widespread netbook use with 3G is unlikely, since the data plans cost at least $720 a year, more than double the cost of the netbooks themselves. The Toughbook is too rare to impact the network significantly. So I doubt any of these "deals" is stressing the network.
My over all point is that AT&T already has integrated 3G deals. AT&T Laptop Connect doesn't offer unlimited 3G like the mobile phone deals do. That is to prevent the Laptop Connect users from straining the network.
Quote:
That's not saying much. EDGE was painfully slow on every iPhone I ever used. Why are you bringing EDGE into this anyway? Nobody mentioned EDGE. We're talking about whether the 3G network can handle increased traffic above and beyond what the limited capabilities of the iPhone 3G can do to stress it.
The speed of EDGE depended on several factors. It could be decent and sometimes it was painful.
But it was good enough, that among smartphones the original iPhone quickly had the highest data use in the world.
Comments
Services like Xohm aren't cell networks, so you shouldn't compare them directly. They're designed from the ground up to be wireless broadband for computers, so they're much less likely to be overloaded.
Xohm doesn't exists quite yet. We are talking about current 3G technology.
Sorry, I don't buy that. That's just their PR. Notice AI's article on the latest lawsuit about the poor 3G performance. And that's just running iPhones with their limited capabilities. Imagine how bad performance would be if you introduced devices onto the network that use much more bandwidth and can use a lot more websites. More Hulu usage, more Flash and Silverlight, etc.
A lawsuit has nothing to do with how much money AT&T is spending on network improvements. ATT reports in the 4th quarter they spent over $400 million on network improvements.
The iPhone is just short of Linux in world wide internet use. What other devices are you talking about that would use more bandwidth, who else uses these devices?
My over all point is that other networks don't have anything like the iPhone to put their network to the test. So we don't really know how they would handle the load.
Xohm doesn't exists quite yet. We are talking about current 3G technology.
That would be news to Baltimore, as well as Clearwire users who are now Xohm users.
A lawsuit has nothing to do with how much money AT&T is spending on network improvements. ATT reports in the 4th quarter they spent over $400 million on network improvements.
That tells me nothing. Verizon claims to be spending big bucks pulling fiber. Yet years after FiOS was available in my city, my neighborhood still doesn't have it.
The iPhone is just short of Linux in world wide internet use. What other devices are you talking about that would use more bandwidth, who else uses these devices?
The devices this article is talking about, i.e. Macbooks with integrated 3G connectivity.
I wouldn't mind having a 3g chip inside my laptop, that would be one less dongle to have to fool with when traveling. And it would be nice to have a 3g option when traveling in case the hotel you're at wants $10 to connect to their wireless/wired network. Even today I come across an occasional hotel that tries that crap.
Like others, I can't wait for 4g. That will rock.
That would be news to Baltimore, as well as Clearwire users who are now Xohm users.
One test market doesn't equate to a currently functioning nation wide network.
It seems you need extreme specifics. I'm talking about comparing AT&T's current functional nation wide network, to other carriers currently functioning nation wide networks.
That tells me nothing. Verizon claims to be spending big bucks pulling fiber. Yet years after FiOS was available in my city, my neighborhood still doesn't have it.
Verizon is spending billions on laying fiber. Just because your neighborhood doesn't have FiOS is not an indication that Verizon is not laying the fiber. It only means the service has not yet been activated in your neighborhood.
Verizon has begun wiring New York City. Of course they are laying fiber in Manhattan first. Within Manhattan they began with the Financial District and Midtown where the majority of the business are. They will roll the service out to Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx neighborhoods over time.
The devices this article is talking about, i.e. Macbooks with integrated 3G connectivity.
AT&T already has integrated 3G deals with Dell, Lenovo, Panasonic, and HP.
Services like Xohm aren't cell networks, so you shouldn't compare them directly. They're designed from the ground up to be wireless broadband for computers, so they're much less likely to be overloaded.
Sorry, I don't buy that. That's just their PR. Notice AI's article on the latest lawsuit about the poor 3G performance. And that's just running iPhones with their limited capabilities. Imagine how bad performance would be if you introduced devices onto the network that use much more bandwidth and can use a lot more websites. More Hulu usage, more Flash and Silverlight, etc.
It's not PR. There is a lot of evidence to support it, including record deaths of contractors falling to their death around the orignal iPhone launch.
I have two iPhones and a Sierra Wireless USB card, all on AT&T. My 3G is almost always consideray more than 2x as fast as EDGE was... And I travel 100% of the time. Sometimes EDGE feels slower than 3G but with so many variables at play that you can't determine the reason simply because a weblage isn't loading as fast as you'd like it to.
I've done comparative testing between my original iPhone, iPhone 3G and Sierra Wireless USB card connected to a couple different MacBooks. The speeds are all comparable when using the same sites to test bandwidth. Furthermore, I've tested up to 1.8Mbps and average more than 1Mbps with 3G. That is hella faster than EDGE.
Finally, I often stream TV shows from Hulu in their higher-res 480p format while in motion on motorways and on trains with great success when 3G is available. EDGE will work but you have to buffer for considerably longer. Of course, without Flash I can't test this on the iPhone unless NBC decides to make a nifty native app for the iPhone.
? Mac growth is very string compared to the industry average.
No argument.
? Why mention that all the other OEMs combined outsell Apple 9 to 1 as if all the other vendors are in league together? Apple has 10% of the US market in unit sales, which is damn good for a company that doesn't sell loss leader products.
Why mention it? Because the comment I was replying to was "But what does it matter when Macs are outselling the general PC market."
Get it now? Not very complicated.
? Most computers compete on price and superfical performance specs. Actual performance and usability is quite different.
Yes it is - 10% of the computers are clearly bought by people who value usability highly The other 90% are bought by people who place price/performance, as measured as best people can by looking at memory, hard drive and CPU.
When Apple launches a new computer, that machine is using new/expensive components and expensive design materials. Apple sells at a much lower volume and amortizes the cost of expensive components and design materials over a longer period that the larger computer makers.
Looking at Apple's sales and revenues, it is a strategy that works extremely well.
Yes it is - 10% of the computers are clearly bought by people who value usability highly The other 90% are bought by people who place price/performance, as measured as best people can by looking at memory, hard drive and CPU.
The price/performance ratio for the majority of the computer market is generally lower price for less performance. Most people are looking at price over spec sheet.
When Apple launches a new computer, that machine is using new/expensive components and expensive design materials. Apple sells at a much lower volume and amortizes the cost of expensive components and design materials over a longer period that the larger computer makers.
Looking at Apple's sales and revenues, it is a strategy that works extremely well.
Now you're finally seeing it my way. Excellent
One test market doesn't equate to a currently functioning nation wide network.
It seems you need extreme specifics. I'm talking about comparing AT&T's current functional nation wide network, to other carriers currently functioning nation wide networks.
That's if you truly consider it nationwide. Lots of people are still complaining about numerous holes in coverage. You're also ignoring that Clearwire is not a test market. They may be in a limited number of cities right now, and they're only pre-WiMax, but they're hardly a single test market, and they recently merged with Xohm.
Verizon is spending billions on laying fiber. Just because your neighborhood doesn't have FiOS is not an indication that Verizon is not laying the fiber. It only means the service has not yet been activated in your neighborhood.
And just because AT&T claims they're spending hundreds of millions upgrading their network doesn't mean people actually see any improvement. As recently as November, people were still screaming online about dropped calls and slow 3G speeds on AT&T. That's quite a bit later than the iPhone 3G launch.
AT&T already has integrated 3G deals with Dell, Lenovo, Panasonic, and HP.
I assume you're referring to their netbooks. Weren't so many people here consistently arguing that netbooks have nothing going for them except low cost? If that's the case, then widespread netbook use with 3G is unlikely, since the data plans cost at least $720 a year, more than double the cost of the netbooks themselves. The Toughbook is too rare to impact the network significantly. So I doubt any of these "deals" is stressing the network.
It's not PR. There is a lot of evidence to support it, including record deaths of contractors falling to their death around the orignal iPhone launch.
I'm sorry, and this has to do with AT&T upgrading their 3G network how exactly? I wasn't aware that the original iPhone was 3G.
I have two iPhones and a Sierra Wireless USB card, all on AT&T. My 3G is almost always consideray more than 2x as fast as EDGE was... And I travel 100% of the time. Sometimes EDGE feels slower than 3G but with so many variables at play that you can't determine the reason simply because a weblage isn't loading as fast as you'd like it to.
I've done comparative testing between my original iPhone, iPhone 3G and Sierra Wireless USB card connected to a couple different MacBooks. The speeds are all comparable when using the same sites to test bandwidth. Furthermore, I've tested up to 1.8Mbps and average more than 1Mbps with 3G. That is hella faster than EDGE.
Finally, I often stream TV shows from Hulu in their higher-res 480p format while in motion on motorways and on trains with great success when 3G is available. EDGE will work but you have to buffer for considerably longer. Of course, without Flash I can't test this on the iPhone unless NBC decides to make a nifty native app for the iPhone.
That's not saying much. EDGE was painfully slow on every iPhone I ever used. Why are you bringing EDGE into this anyway? Nobody mentioned EDGE. We're talking about whether the 3G network can handle increased traffic above and beyond what the limited capabilities of the iPhone 3G can do to stress it.
That's if you truly consider it nationwide. Lots of people are still complaining about numerous holes in coverage. You're also ignoring that Clearwire is not a test market. They may be in a limited number of cities right now, and they're only pre-WiMax, but they're hardly a single test market, and they recently merged with Xohm.
Yes AT&T is as nationwide as any other other carrier. None of them literally cover 100% of the nation.
My original point that you addressed, was the fact that no other US carrier has a phone that uses as much data as the iPhone. So their is no way to know if their networks would have had the same issues (or possibly even different issues) than what AT&T has had.
And just because AT&T claims they're spending hundreds of millions upgrading their network doesn't mean people actually see any improvement. As recently as November, people were still screaming online about dropped calls and slow 3G speeds on AT&T. That's quite a bit later than the iPhone 3G launch.
No legitimate survey or research would count anonymous people complaining on internet boards as empirical data. Who knows if many of these people even really own iPhones or not.
During the summer here in New York, you could tell that AT&T's network was being strained. Things have gotten considerably better. Not to say their isn't room for more improvement.
I assume you're referring to their netbooks. Weren't so many people here consistently arguing that netbooks have nothing going for them except low cost? If that's the case, then widespread netbook use with 3G is unlikely, since the data plans cost at least $720 a year, more than double the cost of the netbooks themselves. The Toughbook is too rare to impact the network significantly. So I doubt any of these "deals" is stressing the network.
My over all point is that AT&T already has integrated 3G deals. AT&T Laptop Connect doesn't offer unlimited 3G like the mobile phone deals do. That is to prevent the Laptop Connect users from straining the network.
That's not saying much. EDGE was painfully slow on every iPhone I ever used. Why are you bringing EDGE into this anyway? Nobody mentioned EDGE. We're talking about whether the 3G network can handle increased traffic above and beyond what the limited capabilities of the iPhone 3G can do to stress it.
The speed of EDGE depended on several factors. It could be decent and sometimes it was painful.
But it was good enough, that among smartphones the original iPhone quickly had the highest data use in the world.