Mac web share hits record 9.9 percent in January

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    All such reports are anecdotal of course but for me, I have never seen FireFox of any description do anything faster than Safari. I understand lots of people like it and I've heard people say they think it's faster etc. but for me ... never. FireFox is always slightly slower than Safari on my computers even though the main reason I don't use it is actually the aforementioned "brass knob" effect.



    I have no doubt that Safari is faster and more integrated into OS X than Firefox. The thing that keeps me using Firefox instead of Safari is that it has more features:



    1) Plugins/extensions (Adblock Plus, Foxmarks, etc)

    2) Better bookmark shortcuts (ex g {search term} for Google or wp {search term} for Wikipedia.

    3) Type ahead find and the use of ENTER to trigger a hyperlink.

    4) userContent.css (for finer-grained ad, image, and text blocking)

    5) etc...



    Having said that, Firefox is moving rapidly towards Cocoa away from Carbon, so expect better OS X integration with 3.1
  • Reply 22 of 51
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macosxp View Post


    This month, Safari had more growth than Firefox. Overall, of course, Firefox deserves the most credit for IE's current market share.



    I think also that while Safari had more growth percentagewise, Firefox grew more in actual users. So saying Safari had more of an effect on Microsoft losing share than Firefox isn't really true.
  • Reply 23 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tiltool View Post


    News Analysis. Net Applications' January operating system data puts Mac market share at nearly 10 percent. Don't believe it.

    [B] etc etc........



    Apple's big challenge is going to be first quarter, which first month of sales just ended. Can Apple maintain big Mac shipments growth? I say no, as the big PC growth category is the netbook, for which Apple doesn't compete. But you tell me, please, in comments or by e-mail. Can Macs continue to gain share against Windows PCs?



    I don't see the big point that you are making here.



    'Market share' numbers -- whether measured by web hits, type of OS, units sold in a finite period of time such as a quarter, totals currently-in-use, etc -- are all inherently problematic and contain a lot of noise. It is fairly useless to try and make inferences about one based on data for another (e.g., inferring machines in use from web share data).



    They are only useful in showing some broad trends over time (i.e., compared against the same prior measure), and lead to any meaningful market value implications only when there are significant changes.
  • Reply 24 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macosxp View Post


    So what's going to happen?



    A: Microsoft starts making a comeback with Windows 7 while Mac innovation falls; Mac OS X growth retards and reverses, resulting in a 6% market share 5 years from now, 2% market share 10 years from now.



    B: Microsoft keeps its place of always falling a little behind the competition; Mac OS X growth remains constant, resulting in a 15% market share 5 years from now, 20% market share 10 years from now. or



    C: Microsoft continues to flop while Mac innovation continues to WOW the world; Mac OS X growth gains momentum, resulting in a 30% market share 5 years from now, 60% market share 10 years from now.



    It all depends on how good of a job Microsoft and Apple can do. But if things continue as they're going right now, we'll be seeing scenario 'C' and we'll all be living insanely great lives.



    Linux takes over everything. It has to, it is open.



    Any year now?
  • Reply 25 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,647member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by columbus View Post


    Linux takes over everything. It has to, it is open.



    Any year now?



    Decade, century?
  • Reply 26 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macosxp View Post


    So what's going to happen?



    A: Microsoft starts making a comeback with Windows 7 while Mac innovation falls; Mac OS X growth retards and reverses, resulting in a 6% market share 5 years from now, 2% market share 10 years from now.



    B: Microsoft keeps its place of always falling a little behind the competition; Mac OS X growth remains constant, resulting in a 15% market share 5 years from now, 20% market share 10 years from now. or



    C: Microsoft continues to flop while Mac innovation continues to WOW the world; Mac OS X growth gains momentum, resulting in a 30% market share 5 years from now, 60% market share 10 years from now.



    It all depends on how good of a job Microsoft and Apple can do. But if things continue as they're going right now, we'll be seeing scenario 'C' and we'll all be living insanely great lives.



    I think Linux is going to make some serious moves in the low-end computing market, which won't fit neatly into your scenarios.



    Here's how it's going to go down:



    Dell and H.P. will give up on their Pystar gambit and realize that there's only one way to increase their margins without Microsoft doing an end-run around them with Vista-like shenanigans.



    They'll start collaborating with Intel's Moblin (http://moblin.org/) project for netbooks. This will allow them to build a full-featured OS that's light, free, and customizable. They'll be able to tweak the user interface of any given computer to fit any demographic, and build up better margins, assuming their marketing is up to the task. This will put Microsoft in a tough position, as they still need to sell their OS and not offer it for free.



    Meanwhile, Apple will continue to dominate the high-end market, which is all they're really interested in.
  • Reply 27 of 51
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post


    Dell and H.P. will give up on their Pystar gambit



    How about you post some evidence that they're behind Psystar. Just believing it doesn't make it so. We don't need people spreading rumor as a fact.
  • Reply 28 of 51
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,157member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    At least MS is giving out Betas. I was hoping for some update about 10.6 at Macworld, even some small bit of info. I hope 10.6 isn't keeping people in Cupertino up at night worrying!



    MS is giving out Windows 7 Beta for marketing purposes and to fix what Vista did not to help improve the OS itself. I have tried many Windows Beta in the past and they always start fast and clean but once they final version is release they mess things up.
  • Reply 29 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,647member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post


    I think Linux is going to make some serious moves in the low-end computing market, which won't fit neatly into your scenarios.



    Here's how it's going to go down:



    Dell and H.P. will give up on their Pystar gambit and realize that there's only one way to increase their margins without Microsoft doing an end-run around them with Vista-like shenanigans.



    They'll start collaborating with Intel's Moblin (http://moblin.org/) project for netbooks. This will allow them to build a full-featured OS that's light, free, and customizable. They'll be able to tweak the user interface of any given computer to fit any demographic, and build up better margins, assuming their marketing is up to the task. This will put Microsoft in a tough position, as they still need to sell their OS and not offer it for free.



    Meanwhile, Apple will continue to dominate the high-end market, which is all they're really interested in.



    Linux users have been saying this for YEARS! Every year for at least the past five or six years was going to be "The Year Of Linux On The Desktop".



    Uh, no!



    Linux will always be at least a couple of years behind the commercial systems. There is too much infighting there. Ego's are rampant. Everyone thinks their way is the only way. If they're not happy, they fork it off.



    Until there is one authority, and far fewer distros, that's only going to be a dream.



    One thing I agree with Vinea about here, is that a monolithic system has the best chance. There are only two entities that are doing this. Apple and MS. Even companies such as Red Hat are tiny after all the years they've been in business. Other major companies involved in Linux haven't made much progress.



    A few years ago, IBM made a highly publicized announcement that they were going to change over all their desktop users to Linux, but it never happened.

    Firstly, they had too many technical problems. Secondly, there was far too much user resistance to it. It was abandoned.



    What's needed is one major fork. One that's sold from one or more companies. Yes, that's right, sold! With support for the everyman. Just like Apple and MS offer. With call-in support etc.



    Otherwise, very few people will be interested. Even though Dell and Hp have been offering Linux on some of their machines for years, nothing has happened. It's too terrifying for most potential users.



    Packaged software, just like other software providers offer.



    This is anti-ethical to most Linux devotees. They even argue about licensing major media codecs and such. Because of that they have to try to develop it all on their own, which often doesn't bear fruit.



    So I just don't see it happening.
  • Reply 30 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    How about you post some evidence that they're behind Psystar. Just believing it doesn't make it so. We don't need people spreading rumor as a fact.



    I'm not a newspaper. I don't have a legal department, and I can't get sued for making false statements, since I have never represented them as fact, nor am I under any obligation to do so. I'm a visitor to an online forum, and I have the right to express an opinion that's not based on fact.



    I *believe* that Dell and H.P., based on the motivations behind those two companies and the fact that Pystar didn't cave in as they would have if they had no real money behind them. However, I acknowledge that that may not be true. I don't have evidence to back it up, and I'm under no obligation to provide any.
  • Reply 31 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,647member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    MS is giving out Windows 7 Beta for marketing purposes and to fix what Vista did not to help improve the OS itself. I have tried many Windows Beta in the past and they always start fast and clean but once they final version is release they mess things up.



    The point is that they HAVE been giving out betas. Apple has not even said anything since many months ago.



    Apple can at least give us some idea of where they are, and what they're doing. The idea that MS will rapidly start copying it is silly at this point. There is little they can do to make a major change.



    And we can't always assume that MS will screw things up.



    Win 7 is just a minor update to Vista. It's a refining of the OS. According to most accounts, this one will go down much easier with users. It's not the big step Vista was, where there were no drivers etc. Those issues are past. Any problems they should have with this will likely be no more than Apple will have when 10.6 comes out.



    I'm being carful with my expectations, as Apple has told us little.
  • Reply 32 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,647member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post


    I'm not a newspaper. I don't have a legal department, and I can't get sued for making false statements, since I have never represented them as fact, nor am I under any obligation to do so. I'm a visitor to an online forum, and I have the right to express an opinion that's not based on fact.



    I *believe* that Dell and H.P., based on the motivations behind those two companies and the fact that Pystar didn't cave in as they would have if they had no real money behind them. However, I acknowledge that that may not be true. I don't have evidence to back it up, and I'm under no obligation to provide any.



    Jeff isn't really expecting you to have actual evidence. He's only hinting that as it's your opinion, you should say that, rather than say it as if it were a fact.
  • Reply 33 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Linux users have been saying this for YEARS! Every year for at least the past five or six years was going to be "The Year Of Linux On The Desktop".



    They have a 20-30% share of the netbook market. Both major OEMs (Dell and H.P.) sell desktops and notebooks with Linux pre-installed. There are OEMs like System76 that sell *only* Linux systems. All of the above would have been unthinkable just 3 years ago.



    Quote:



    Uh, no!



    Linux will always be at least a couple of years behind the commercial systems. There is too much infighting there. Ego's are rampant. Everyone thinks their way is the only way. If they're not happy, they fork it off.




    Do you have any examples of this infighting? There is such a thing as the Linux Standards Base, you know?



    Quote:



    Until there is one authority, and far fewer distros, that's only going to be a dream.




    Ubuntu seems to be the desktop distro of choice nowadays, with all due respect to Fedora. It's the one Dell installs on their systems.



    Quote:





    One thing I agree with Vinea about here, is that a monolithic system has the best chance. There are only two entities that are doing this. Apple and MS. Even companies such as Red Hat are tiny after all the years they've been in business. Other major companies involved in Linux haven't made much progress.




    Canonical (company that distributes Ubuntu) is making a tidy profit despite providing their main product for free.



    Quote:





    A few years ago, IBM made a highly publicized announcement that they were going to change over all their desktop users to Linux, but it never happened.



    Firstly, they had too many technical problems. Secondly, there was far too much user resistance to it. It was abandoned.




    From what I hear, this is moving along slowly, but it is happening. They just ported Lotus Notes to cross-platform SWT, which was the last of IBM's major applications that wouldn't run on Linux.





    Quote:



    What's needed is one major fork. One that's sold from one or more companies. Yes, that's right, sold! With support for the everyman. Just like Apple and MS offer. With call-in support etc.




    Red Hat Enterprise Linux and SuSE are proprietary forks on the server-side. Canonical already "sells" Ubuntu in the sense that they provide commercial support for it.



    Quote:



    Otherwise, very few people will be interested. Even though Dell and Hp have been offering Linux on some of their machines for years, nothing has happened. It's too terrifying for most potential users.




    Terrifying? Really? Have you actually used a Linux distro lately, or is that just conjecture on your part?



    Quote:



    Packaged software, just like other software providers offer.




    Packages as in physically packaged, or packaged as in made available to install? Ubuntu and other Linux distros provide a wealth of software (both open source and proprietary) installable over the internet with their package management systems, which are orders of magnitude better than what MS and Apple offer.



    Quote:



    This is anti-ethical to most Linux devotees. They even argue about licensing major media codecs and such. Because of that they have to try to develop it all on their own, which often doesn't bear fruit.




    Dell offers media codecs pre-installed on their Ubuntu systems.



    Quote:



    So I just don't see it happening.



    It's already happening.
  • Reply 34 of 51
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post


    since I have never represented them as fact,



    Either you aren't any good at stating that it was your opinion or you have a very odd idea of what you said if you don't think you represented it as fact.
  • Reply 35 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Either you aren't any good at stating that it was your opinion or you have a very odd idea of what you said if you don't think you represented it as fact.



    Edit:



    Didn't realize it was a moderator that originally replied to me.



    I will be more careful to more explicitly state my opinions as opinions in the future and not fact.
  • Reply 36 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macosxp View Post


    So what's going to happen?



    A: Microsoft starts making a comeback with Windows 7 while Mac innovation falls; Mac OS X growth retards and reverses, resulting in a 6% market share 5 years from now, 2% market share 10 years from now.



    B: Microsoft keeps its place of always falling a little behind the competition; Mac OS X growth remains constant, resulting in a 15% market share 5 years from now, 20% market share 10 years from now. or



    C: Microsoft continues to flop while Mac innovation continues to WOW the world; Mac OS X growth gains momentum, resulting in a 30% market share 5 years from now, 60% market share 10 years from now.



    I choose...

    D: Microsoft feels the heat and starts making a comeback with Windows 7, but Mac OS X growth continues, resulting in a 12% market share 5 years from now, 15-17% market share 10 years from now.
  • Reply 37 of 51
    boogabooga Posts: 1,077member
    I'm going to guess that the iPhone's browser market share has probably reached its peak. Most of the stuff I used the browser for when I first got my device has since been superceeded by specialized apps. PNC Bank now has an app... weather... sports... news... facebook... there's less and less reason to actually use the browser. It's really nice to have it there to get on the random Wi-Fi network or go outside the box on one of the services, but I use it about 1/10th as much now as I did when I first got an iPhone.
  • Reply 38 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Booga View Post


    I'm going to guess that the iPhone's browser market share has probably reached its peak. Most of the stuff I used the browser for when I first got my device has since been superceeded by specialized apps. PNC Bank now has an app... weather... sports... news... facebook... there's less and less reason to actually use the browser. It's really nice to have it there to get on the random Wi-Fi network or go outside the box on one of the services, but I use it about 1/10th as much now as I did when I first got an iPhone.



    That's assuming Apple isn't going to pick up lots more customers who will start with the web browser first before moving onto apps.
  • Reply 39 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,647member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post


    They have a 20-30% share of the netbook market. Both major OEMs (Dell and H.P.) sell desktops and notebooks with Linux pre-installed. There are OEMs like System76 that sell *only* Linux systems. All of the above would have been unthinkable just 3 years ago.



    Two thngs about that.



    One is that that only comes out to a small share altogether, and two is that it seems many people are not happy with their netbooks after they bought them, because they can't do what they thought they could. This may even be a fad. Once Win 7 is out, and fits on these things, Linux on them will die out, as usual.



    Quote:

    Do you have any examples of this infighting? There is such a thing as the Linux Standards Base, you know?



    Just go to the various Linux forums, and to any of the major distro sites, and you'll find it.



    The standards base is a nice idea, and possibly someday it will be useful.



    Quote:

    Ubuntu seems to be the desktop distro of choice nowadays, with all due respect to Fedora. It's the one Dell installs on their systems.



    It's more popular now, and Fedora was more popular a short while ago. It could very well change again. But neither is anywhere a majority, as there are so many more.



    It would be nice for them if they could decide on one, and stick with it. They keep inventing the wheel every year or so.



    Quote:

    Canonical (company that distributes Ubuntu) is making a tidy profit despite providing their main product for free.



    Tiny company. Very few have even heard of it outside of the Linux community.



    Quote:

    From what I hear, this is moving along slowly, but it is happening. They just ported Lotus Notes to cross-platform SWT, which was the last of IBM's major applications that wouldn't run on Linux.



    It's too slow. For the past two years at least, it seems as though the computer industry has grown a whole faster than desktop Linux has. IBM has committed itself to support Linux in order to weaken MS (though they won't publicly say that of course).



    Quote:

    Red Hat Enterprise Linux and SuSE are proprietary forks on the server-side. Canonical already "sells" Ubuntu in the sense that they provide commercial support for it.



    They sure are! No business wants to deal with some unsupported version of what I've seen called a "pirate" OS in a large business. They need support, and they need it pronto! Both companies have made the changes required for a real business environment.



    Quote:

    Terrifying? Really? Have you actually used a Linux distro lately, or is that just conjecture on your part?



    What's ok for you and me is not ok for the average person out there. Terrifying is the word. You do realize that many people can't even install software by themselves when it's from Apple or MS?



    I'm not Linux ignorant. I follow it fairly well, and have used it numerous times, including recently.



    But many people on forums seem to think that what's oh so simple for them is that way for everyone else, when it isn't. Sure Linux has come a long way, but it has a longer way to go. Every improvement they make for ease of use has already been made some time before.



    Installing much software in Linux is still a horror story, though some things are pretty easy.



    It's like asking how many people change the oil filter in their car, only to find out that most don't even know where it is!



    And that's for Windows and OS X!



    Quote:

    Packages as in physically packaged, or packaged as in made available to install? Ubuntu and other Linux distros provide a wealth of software (both open source and proprietary) installable over the internet with their package management systems, which are orders of magnitude better than what MS and Apple offer.



    Both. Until someone can order a piece of software from Egghead, or walk into their local computer store and pick it off the shelf, it won't be easy for the average person to find, or buy.



    Their package management systems are certainly not better, and they only work with a subset of the software out there, as you know.



    Quote:

    Dell offers media codecs pre-installed on their Ubuntu systems.



    Yes, there are some.





    Quote:

    It's already happening.



    Barely.
  • Reply 40 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,647member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Booga View Post


    I'm going to guess that the iPhone's browser market share has probably reached its peak. Most of the stuff I used the browser for when I first got my device has since been superceeded by specialized apps. PNC Bank now has an app... weather... sports... news... facebook... there's less and less reason to actually use the browser. It's really nice to have it there to get on the random Wi-Fi network or go outside the box on one of the services, but I use it about 1/10th as much now as I did when I first got an iPhone.



    That's very possible. I have apps from the NYTimes, API, Bloomberg News, the ABA, the Weather Channel, and others. I don't use Safari for news except rarely.



    So if this is true, we will continue to see the iPhone OS share increase, while the iPhone Safari, also due to the other browsers now available, will decline.



    Unless they're just really measuring Webkit on the iPhone.
Sign In or Register to comment.