Mac web share hits record 9.9 percent in January

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  • Reply 41 of 51
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I wouldn't go along with this rational. Their is still a great deal more growth in the smartphone and portable media player market. Apple will sell tens of millions more iPhones and iPod Touch.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Booga View Post


    I'm going to guess that the iPhone's browser market share has probably reached its peak. Most of the stuff I used the browser for when I first got my device has since been superceeded by specialized apps. PNC Bank now has an app... weather... sports... news... facebook... there's less and less reason to actually use the browser. It's really nice to have it there to get on the random Wi-Fi network or go outside the box on one of the services, but I use it about 1/10th as much now as I did when I first got an iPhone.



  • Reply 42 of 51
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Booga View Post


    I'm going to guess that the iPhone's browser market share has probably reached its peak. Most of the stuff I used the browser for when I first got my device has since been superceeded by specialized apps. PNC Bank now has an app... weather... sports... news... facebook... there's less and less reason to actually use the browser. It's really nice to have it there to get on the random Wi-Fi network or go outside the box on one of the services, but I use it about 1/10th as much now as I did when I first got an iPhone.



    I think it depends on what sites are used for gathering the data and what the app actually does to access the site. I think it was mentioned that these surveys are derived from site hit data from 40,000 web sites, and as I recall, there are 15,000 apps, and I doubt the majority are apps that substitute for accessing the web site.
  • Reply 43 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,663member
    It's the question of how they get there. The issue is Safari, not going on to the web.



    If you have a number of news apps and weather apps, as I have, that means I don't use Safari for that.



    I also have the Google apps, eBay and Paypal and others.



    All of those things I do through my computer using Safari.



    But on my iPhone, I don't need Safari for it.



    If AI had their program up and running, I might use that as well.



    People may start using the alternative browsers that are now becoming available.



    This all cuts into those iPhone browser numbers. The more popular they become, the less Safari will be used. While Safari's pecentage may not actually go down if many more buy the phone and iTouch, it might not really go up.
  • Reply 44 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Two thngs about that.

    *snip*



    Well, here's a thread from Slashdot that discusses the state of desktop Linux:



    http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../02/03/1555216
  • Reply 45 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Two thngs about that.



    One is that that only comes out to a small share altogether, and two is that it seems many people are not happy with their netbooks after they bought them, because they can't do what they thought they could. This may even be a fad. Once Win 7 is out, and fits on these things, Linux on them will die out, as usual.




    OK. Here's what I find odd and inconsistent. Microsoft releases a version of Windows that breaks a lot of conventions that people were used to in the previous version of Windows. However, I don't hear about people returning their computers. However, people are returning their netbooks with Linux installed.



    I'm speculating that the netbook vendors are being disingenuous, and are perhaps using Linux as a bargaining chip in order to gain concessions from Microsoft instead of investing in making their Linux netbooks work as advertised. AOL used Netscape in the same way to get a better deal from Microsoft on IE.



    Again, this is speculation, but I'm getting the impression that the netbook vendors are happy to just slap Windows XP on their systems and call it a day.



    Why anybody would want to use a full desktop UI on such a small screen and trackpad is beyond me. The "Start" button looks horribly out of place for such a small device.



    Quote:





    Just go to the various Linux forums, and to any of the major distro sites, and you'll find it.



    The standards base is a nice idea, and possibly someday it will be useful.




    What would help is if there were a standard package management system, like apt-get, included in those standards, so that one software package can install on all distros.



    Quote:





    It's more popular now, and Fedora was more popular a short while ago. It could very well change again. But neither is anywhere a majority, as there are so many more.



    It would be nice for them if they could decide on one, and stick with it. They keep inventing the wheel every year or so.




    True, but Ubuntu has gained mindshare as *the* user-friendly desktop distro. It's a rallying point.



    Quote:





    Tiny company. Very few have even heard of it outside of the Linux community.







    It's too slow. For the past two years at least, it seems as though the computer industry has grown a whole faster than desktop Linux has. IBM has committed itself to support Linux in order to weaken MS (though they won't publicly say that of course).






    You can say the same thing about Microsoft. They have what is in some ways an ancient operating system shackled by the need to maintain backward compatibility.



    Quote:





    They sure are! No business wants to deal with some unsupported version of what I've seen called a "pirate" OS in a large business. They need support, and they need it pronto! Both companies have made the changes required for a real business environment.




    This doesn't apply to desktop Linux, but I worked for a Fortune 500 company with massive server-side deployments of server-side Linux. Granted, that was Red Hat Linux, but still.



    Quote:



    What's ok for you and me is not ok for the average person out there. Terrifying is the word. You do realize that many people can't even install software by themselves when it's from Apple or MS?




    The fact that people are switching massively to OS X is proof that the general population can learn a new user interface and are not shackled to Windows. What helps OS X (aside from the fact that it's GUI is superior to Windows) is that it's the best marketed operating system in the world. This is something that Linux does need.



    Quote:



    I'm not Linux ignorant. I follow it fairly well, and have used it numerous times, including recently.



    But many people on forums seem to think that what's oh so simple for them is that way for everyone else, when it isn't. Sure Linux has come a long way, but it has a longer way to go. Every improvement they make for ease of use has already been made some time before.




    I'd be interested in hearing some examples. There are aspects of desktop Linux that I find *easier* than Windows. The LiveCD and installation process are far more efficient and straightforward than Windows, which requires several reboots. Finding and installing open source software and some proprietary software is easier than Windows. Keyboard shortcuts in GNOME are totally configurable, whereas you're locked into them in Windows and OS X.



    Quote:



    Installing much software in Linux is still a horror story, though some things are pretty easy.




    On Ubuntu, you just have to click Applications > Add Remove Software and search for what you want to install. Which distros have you been using?



    Quote:



    It's like asking how many people change the oil filter in their car, only to find out that most don't even know where it is!



    And that's for Windows and OS X!




    Sorry to say it, but some people just aren't technical enough to use computers *period*. Those that use Windows have simply memorized a series of arcane, if totally inefficient, steps to get their work done.



    Quote:



    Both. Until someone can order a piece of software from Egghead, or walk into their local computer store and pick it off the shelf, it won't be easy for the average person to find, or buy.




    There's not a whole lot of shrink-wrapped software available for OS X outside of the Apple Store the last time I checked. That doesn't stop people from buying Macs.



    Quote:



    Their package management systems are certainly not better, and they only work with a subset of the software out there, as you know.




    Well, wake me up when from either Windows or OS X I can click Add Remove Software, click on Firefox, OpenOffice, and Netbeans, and then click "install all" and have all that software automatically downloaded and installed on my system. I can do this with Ubuntu and OpenOffice right now.



    There's a *lot* of open source software out there that does what most proprietary software does. Even Photoshop has The Gimp. It depends what you're looking for.
  • Reply 46 of 51
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It's the question of how they get there. The issue is Safari, not going on to the web.If you have a number of news apps and weather apps, as I have, that means I don't use Safari for that.



    That depends on how many iPhone users, use these specific apps to access the web instead of Safari. The number of native apps is extremely small in comparison to the number of websites.



    Many more phones are adopting browsers that fully render HTML. Their will be a growing number of web sites and services optimized for mobile handsets. Web apps will be much easier to develop and update than making a separate native app for every phone.





    Quote:

    This all cuts into those iPhone browser numbers. The more popular they become, the less Safari will be used. While Safari's pecentage may not actually go down if many more buy the phone and iTouch, it might not really go up.



    While I agree native apps reduce the use of Safari. Their are millions of web pages vs a few hundred native apps for web services. Safari's use will continue to grow as more iPhone/iTouch are sold.
  • Reply 47 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    That depends on how many iPhone users, use these specific apps to access the web instead of Safari. The number of native apps is extremely small in comparison to the number of websites.



    Many more phones are adopting browsers that fully render HTML. Their will be a growing number of web sites and services optimized for mobile handsets. Web apps will be much easier to develop and update than making a separate native app for every phone.









    While I agree native apps reduce the use of Safari. Their are millions of web pages vs a few hundred native apps for web services. Safari's use will continue to grow as more iPhone/iTouch are sold.



    I agree with all of the above. I'm not saying it will happen, only that I see a mechanism by which it could.
  • Reply 48 of 51
    Linux gaining a sizable share of the desktop market is about as likely as Apple's - not very.



    I have Ubuntu on my netbook, runs just fine, only tweaking was to get the Atheros wifi working, but their is an open source driver available, let the software updater pick it up, and it's been running just fine since then. However, where Linux distros seem to fall really flat, is when it comes to OS updates.



    On both my netbook and laptop, I had Kubuntu, with KDE 4 installed, and when I went to install KDE 4.2, there were also some kernel updates available, with totally wrecked my Ubuntu install on my laptop, and KDE 4.2 is still pretty flaky on my netbook, but Gnome is just fine. BTW, my netbook came with XP Home SP3, which I use in a dual boot configuration.



    The problem with many of the Linux netbooks, is the choice of crappy, glossed over Debian-based derivatives. One of the few distros that I've seen isn't too bad are Ubuntu notebook remix and Moblin, which is based on Fedora.



    As far as Apple, their growth is limited just because not everyone can afford to spend $1000+ on a halfway decent spec'd Mac.
  • Reply 49 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guinness View Post


    Linux gaining a sizable share of the desktop market is about as likely as Apple's - not very.



    I have Ubuntu on my netbook, runs just fine, only tweaking was to get the Atheros wifi working, but their is an open source driver available, let the software updater pick it up, and it's been running just fine since then. However, where Linux distros seem to fall really flat, is when it comes to OS updates.



    On both my netbook and laptop, I had Kubuntu, with KDE 4 installed, and when I went to install KDE 4.2, there were also some kernel updates available, with totally wrecked my Ubuntu install on my laptop, and KDE 4.2 is still pretty flaky on my netbook, but Gnome is just fine. BTW, my netbook came with XP Home SP3, which I use in a dual boot configuration.



    The problem with many of the Linux netbooks, is the choice of crappy, glossed over Debian-based derivatives. One of the few distros that I've seen isn't too bad are Ubuntu notebook remix and Moblin, which is based on Fedora.



    As far as Apple, their growth is limited just because not everyone can afford to spend $1000+ on a halfway decent spec'd Mac.



    Apple has been closing in on 10% lately, though the netbook fad has slowed that down for now ((from a couple of surveys, many people aren't happy with them (netbooks, that is) after purchase)).
  • Reply 50 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Apple has been closing in on 10% lately, though the netbook fad has slowed that down for now ((from a couple of surveys, many people aren't happy with them (netbooks, that is) after purchase)).



    10% is fair in the US, but that and Linux's roughly 1% desktop marketshare is still small potatoes compared to Windows. 10% is pretty good considering what Apple offers in terms of real HW value and their higher price point.



    As far as many people not being happy with all netbooks, after purchase, prove it. It sounds too much like a strawman argument. I've read articles from either MSI or Asus, where they have higher returns on their netbooks that use Linux, as they use clumsy UI's to begin with, but XP and standard Ubuntu run just fine - computers are appliances anymore, it doesn't take a lot to run a browser, check your e-mail, etc, and it's a heck of a lot more comfortable to use for extended periods than an iPhone/Touch, which has a 3.5" screen, compared to 9 or 10". Like my phone, my PSP, and my Touch, I just can't get used to browsing on the web or checking my mail on a tiny screen, a netbook is a good middle ground between that and my full-blown laptop.



    http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl...23253&from=rss

    http://blog.laptopmag.com/ubuntu-con...han-anticpated



    That's where custom UI's like Ububtu notebook remix, HP's MIE, or Intel's Moblin look quite attractive, as they are designed to run with the 1024x600 resolution. Biggest obstacle, is the size of the trackpad, which would probably be better replaced with the IBM style nub.



    That, and people want to be able to run their Windows applications. But these are probably the same type of people that return perfectly fine 'defective' products, because they can't read the manual.



    http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/03/9...ricans-dont-r/
  • Reply 51 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guinness View Post


    10% is fair in the US, but that and Linux's roughly 1% desktop marketshare is still small potatoes compared to Windows. 10% is pretty good considering what Apple offers in terms of real HW value and their higher price point.



    The point here is that Apple's share in the US, and around the world has been rising pretty quickly the past few years. That of Linux doesn't seem to be rising much at all.



    Quote:

    As far as many people not being happy with all netbooks, after purchase, prove it. It sounds too much like a strawman argument. I've read articles from either MSI or Asus, where they have higher returns on their netbooks that use Linux, as they use clumsy UI's to begin with, but XP and standard Ubuntu run just fine - computers are appliances anymore, it doesn't take a lot to run a browser, check your e-mail, etc, and it's a heck of a lot more comfortable to use for extended periods than an iPhone/Touch, which has a 3.5" screen, compared to 9 or 10". Like my phone, my PSP, and my Touch, I just can't get used to browsing on the web or checking my mail on a tiny screen, a netbook is a good middle ground between that and my full-blown laptop.



    http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl...23253&from=rss

    http://blog.laptopmag.com/ubuntu-con...han-anticpated



    Those returns are what I'm talking about, as yousee for yourself. While Linux is the worst offender here, XP is also a problem.



    I don't care much about what is said on Slashdot, or other tech sites, as they aren't good spokespeople for the average user.



    Quote:

    That's where custom UI's like Ububtu notebook remix, HP's MIE, or Intel's Moblin look quite attractive, as they are designed to run with the 1024x600 resolution. Biggest obstacle, is the size of the trackpad, which would probably be better replaced with the IBM style nub.



    That, and people want to be able to run their Windows applications. But these are probably the same type of people that return perfectly fine 'defective' products, because they can't read the manual.



    http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/03/9...ricans-dont-r/



    I can give a bunch of articles from just typing "netbook problems" into Google. They pop up all over.



    There are too many articles to even bother linking to them here. You do have to be careful of the ones that are really just posts from someone, rather than actual articles though.
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