Nehalem is a completely new architecture that is incompatible with older architectures. This is why you cannot simply "upgrade the processor." If you spent your time researching why this was such a radical change instead of making ill-informed forum posts, you might begin to know what you are talking about.
For example, the Penryn (Early 2008) Mac Pros use dual channel DDR2 memory. These Mac Pros use triple channel DDR3 RAM. These two technologies are completely incompatible with each other. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Apple to make it "easy to upgrade."
Nehalem moves the memory controller onto the CPU. This has never been done before. It is not possible to make this compatible with previous generations of hardware.
They could have, but unfortunately this is just another example of the components having to conform to the case instead of the case conforming to the components.
I agree, it doesn't mean I'm happy about it.
We were pretty much all expecting a new case altogether at this point.
Quote:
No, more like use a case that is designed for dual Nehalem cpus and 12 DIMM slots instead of trying to cram it all into a case designed six years ago for the G5 and modified for socket 771 core-based xeons.
One as I want to run 3 screens with dedicated cards can I install 3 4870's ?
And should I bother with the 8 way 2.26 that no doubt will be replaced in 6 months, or buy an 8 way 3.2gig from the refurb store instead for the same money?
I have a Mac Pro (first gen) that I am not sure if i will update or not, though replacing my second screen 20" Dell with an Apple 24" sure sounds good.
But my point, I remember paying close to $7K for a top end system in the mid-ninties. I think it was for a Quadra and large monitor : ) 3-4K for a well equiped laptop was pretty normal then too.
$7K is a lot less to me today. And the specs sure do look attractive to me. Maybe
I especially want to see how much Snow Leopard improves multi-processor efficency.
We know Dell has cheaper machines. Compare their Nehalem Xeon workstations.
Does Dell even make Xeon 5500 series machines yet? They have some quad core xeon based systems, but the tech specs don't mention which series of Xeon is being used.
Does Dell even make Xeon 5500 series machines yet? They have some quad core xeon based systems, but the tech specs don't mention which series of Xeon is being used.
No they don't. That's why I mentioned it.
But when they do, they will cost the same, or more.
they always do.
People here just love to compare PC consumer machines to Apple's professional workstations.
I understand Apple, however don't like the decision.
They increased Mac Pros price for double socket as previous edition (Harpertown) was eating high-end iMac sale. Harpertown with 2 sockets was incredibly attractive, so many of you confessed.
What's the word on an update on monitors that aren't so so shiny? I hate to stir this debate again.
No way that I can invest in the new MacPro without a decent, preferably Apple, definitely matte screen, monitor. It's perplexing that Apple doesn't recognize the needs of a good portion of their early adopters and devotees (designers and photographers).
I was hoping for an updated Apple 23" (MATTE). I don't have the real estate for the 30".
The 24" Cinema Display is beautiful, but not so useful for photographers and graphic designers. It's not about reflections. It's about some degree of accuracy when going to print. The 24" is to displays as Kodachrome is to film (if you born before 1970, you may recognize the reference).
What's the word on an update on monitors that aren't so so shiny? I hate to stir this debate again.
No way that I can invest in the new MacPro without a decent, preferably Apple, definitely matte screen, monitor. It's perplexing that Apple doesn't recognize the needs of a good portion of their early adopters and devotees (designers and photographers).
I was hoping for an updated Apple 23" (MATTE). I don't have the real estate for the 30".
The 24" Cinema Display is beautiful, but not so useful for photographers and graphic designers. It's not about reflections. It's about some degree of accuracy when going to print. The 24" is to displays as Kodachrome is to film (if you born before 1970, you may recognize the reference).
I have never bought an Apple monitor either for my business or personally, after they discontinued the crt Studio series.
Don't sweat it. If you don't buy their product, and enough people agree with you, they will either improve them substantially, or discontinue them altogether.
I understand Apple, however don't like the decision.
They increased Mac Pros price for double socket as previous edition (Harpertown) was eating high-end iMac sale. Harpertown with 2 sockets was incredibly attractive, so many of you confessed.
The thing is Nehalem is a more expensive platform. Ondie memory controllers and Quickpath and DDR-3. If AMD was more competitive we'd probably see cheaper pricing but Nehalem has no equal if total performance where total performance is considered for a mainstream platform.
One as I want to run 3 screens with dedicated cards can I install 3 4870's ?
And should I bother with the 8 way 2.26 that no doubt will be replaced in 6 months, or buy an 8 way 3.2gig from the refurb store instead for the same money?
No. The 4870 is a dual-slot card that requires two extra power connectors. Two of them will fit physically, but three won't. I'm not sure if there are four six-pin power connectors in the Mac Pro, but I guarantee you there aren't six.
Does it really matter? You knew what I meant right. What's your problem?
"Two 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon" Make you feel better sonny?
No confusion here, it was easier to say.
No I am sorry. I didn't mean it offensively. I just see people get fooled by sales people all the time because they do not understand what they are getting. And everyone gets confused by threads and cpu's. (A friend of mine in 2008 bought a single core PC clockde at 3 ghz for 1,700 bucks because the sales person told him hyperthreading was 2 cores) There are not 8 physical cores. This is old technology in the Mac Pro and I am disappointed because I really wanted to stop using a PC for gaming... looks like that won't be happening for a while. We are about $1,000 dollars or so away from a reasonable price at this point.
Comments
Nehalem is a completely new architecture that is incompatible with older architectures. This is why you cannot simply "upgrade the processor." If you spent your time researching why this was such a radical change instead of making ill-informed forum posts, you might begin to know what you are talking about.
For example, the Penryn (Early 2008) Mac Pros use dual channel DDR2 memory. These Mac Pros use triple channel DDR3 RAM. These two technologies are completely incompatible with each other. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Apple to make it "easy to upgrade."
Nehalem moves the memory controller onto the CPU. This has never been done before. It is not possible to make this compatible with previous generations of hardware.
For Intel. AMD did this 5 years ago. Next.
They could have, but unfortunately this is just another example of the components having to conform to the case instead of the case conforming to the components.
I agree, it doesn't mean I'm happy about it.
We were pretty much all expecting a new case altogether at this point.
No, more like use a case that is designed for dual Nehalem cpus and 12 DIMM slots instead of trying to cram it all into a case designed six years ago for the G5 and modified for socket 771 core-based xeons.
That's what we were expecting.
But. I'll bet they could have gotten it in there
if they wanted to.
For Intel. AMD Did this 5 years ago. Next.
Yes, and AMD STILL has upgrade issues with their many socket designs.
With the same cpu power.
750GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive vs 640GB
a 640gb is $50 less on the dell
Dell 24 inch S2409W Widescreen Flat Panel vs none
ATI Radeon HD 4670 512MB vs # NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB
can add ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB for $100 or ATI Radeon HD 4870 GDDR5 1024MB for $200 vs ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB for $200 more
can also get a Studio XPS 435 with No Monitor for $1,299
with x2 the ram or - $150 for the same ram
ATI Radeon HD 3650 256MB
ATI Radeon HD 4670 512MB [add $50]
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB [add $150]
ATI Radeon HD 4870 GDDR5 1024MB [add $250]
you can also find other dell core i7 deals as well.
One as I want to run 3 screens with dedicated cards can I install 3 4870's ?
And should I bother with the 8 way 2.26 that no doubt will be replaced in 6 months, or buy an 8 way 3.2gig from the refurb store instead for the same money?
I have a Mac Pro (first gen) that I am not sure if i will update or not, though replacing my second screen 20" Dell with an Apple 24" sure sounds good.
But my point, I remember paying close to $7K for a top end system in the mid-ninties. I think it was for a Quadra and large monitor : ) 3-4K for a well equiped laptop was pretty normal then too.
$7K is a lot less to me today. And the specs sure do look attractive to me. Maybe
I especially want to see how much Snow Leopard improves multi-processor efficency.
You can get a DELL Studio XPS 435 about $1000 less with x2 ram then the mac pro.
With the same cpu power.
750GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive vs 640GB
a 640gb is $50 less on the dell
Dell 24 inch S2409W Widescreen Flat Panel vs none
ATI Radeon HD 4670 512MB vs # NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512MB
can add ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB for $100 or ATI Radeon HD 4870 GDDR5 1024MB for $200 vs ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB for $200 more
can also get a Studio XPS 435 with No Monitor for $1,299
with x2 the ram or - $150 for the same ram
ATI Radeon HD 3650 256MB
ATI Radeon HD 4670 512MB [add $50]
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB [add $150]
ATI Radeon HD 4870 GDDR5 1024MB [add $250]
you can also find other dell core i7 deals as well.
We know Dell has cheaper machines. Compare their Nehalem Xeon workstations.
Well at-least I'm excited. I'm going 8-core 2.66. Can't wait any longer...Yippeeeee!
I hate that they are calling it 8 core and confusing people like this. Poor kid.
I hate that they are calling it 8 core and confusing people like this. Poor kid.
That's an interesting thought.
Is it the number of cpu's that matter these days?
Or is it the number of cores, or even the number of threads available.
If we go by that last, my new (when it gets here!) 2.66 Mac Pro will be called a 16 thread machine.
We know Dell has cheaper machines. Compare their Nehalem Xeon workstations.
Does Dell even make Xeon 5500 series machines yet? They have some quad core xeon based systems, but the tech specs don't mention which series of Xeon is being used.
I hate that they are calling it 8 core and confusing people like this. Poor kid.
Does it really matter? You knew what I meant right. What's your problem?
"Two 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon" Make you feel better sonny?
No confusion here, it was easier to say.
Does Dell even make Xeon 5500 series machines yet? They have some quad core xeon based systems, but the tech specs don't mention which series of Xeon is being used.
No they don't. That's why I mentioned it.
But when they do, they will cost the same, or more.
they always do.
People here just love to compare PC consumer machines to Apple's professional workstations.
It's the only way they can justify themselves.
I understand Apple, however don't like the decision.
They increased Mac Pros price for double socket as previous edition (Harpertown) was eating high-end iMac sale. Harpertown with 2 sockets was incredibly attractive, so many of you confessed.
No way that I can invest in the new MacPro without a decent, preferably Apple, definitely matte screen, monitor. It's perplexing that Apple doesn't recognize the needs of a good portion of their early adopters and devotees (designers and photographers).
I was hoping for an updated Apple 23" (MATTE). I don't have the real estate for the 30".
The 24" Cinema Display is beautiful, but not so useful for photographers and graphic designers. It's not about reflections. It's about some degree of accuracy when going to print. The 24" is to displays as Kodachrome is to film (if you born before 1970, you may recognize the reference).
What's the word on an update on monitors that aren't so so shiny? I hate to stir this debate again.
No way that I can invest in the new MacPro without a decent, preferably Apple, definitely matte screen, monitor. It's perplexing that Apple doesn't recognize the needs of a good portion of their early adopters and devotees (designers and photographers).
I was hoping for an updated Apple 23" (MATTE). I don't have the real estate for the 30".
The 24" Cinema Display is beautiful, but not so useful for photographers and graphic designers. It's not about reflections. It's about some degree of accuracy when going to print. The 24" is to displays as Kodachrome is to film (if you born before 1970, you may recognize the reference).
I have never bought an Apple monitor either for my business or personally, after they discontinued the crt Studio series.
Don't sweat it. If you don't buy their product, and enough people agree with you, they will either improve them substantially, or discontinue them altogether.
This is clearly price increase, not decrease.
I understand Apple, however don't like the decision.
They increased Mac Pros price for double socket as previous edition (Harpertown) was eating high-end iMac sale. Harpertown with 2 sockets was incredibly attractive, so many of you confessed.
The thing is Nehalem is a more expensive platform. Ondie memory controllers and Quickpath and DDR-3. If AMD was more competitive we'd probably see cheaper pricing but Nehalem has no equal if total performance where total performance is considered for a mainstream platform.
I have two questions to ask.
One as I want to run 3 screens with dedicated cards can I install 3 4870's ?
And should I bother with the 8 way 2.26 that no doubt will be replaced in 6 months, or buy an 8 way 3.2gig from the refurb store instead for the same money?
No. The 4870 is a dual-slot card that requires two extra power connectors. Two of them will fit physically, but three won't. I'm not sure if there are four six-pin power connectors in the Mac Pro, but I guarantee you there aren't six.
Does it really matter? You knew what I meant right. What's your problem?
"Two 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon" Make you feel better sonny?
No confusion here, it was easier to say.
No I am sorry. I didn't mean it offensively. I just see people get fooled by sales people all the time because they do not understand what they are getting. And everyone gets confused by threads and cpu's. (A friend of mine in 2008 bought a single core PC clockde at 3 ghz for 1,700 bucks because the sales person told him hyperthreading was 2 cores) There are not 8 physical cores. This is old technology in the Mac Pro and I am disappointed because I really wanted to stop using a PC for gaming... looks like that won't be happening for a while. We are about $1,000 dollars or so away from a reasonable price at this point.
There are not 8 physical cores.
Really? Then what are the four red and green lumps in this picture?