Apple close to unveiling guarded Snow Leopard UI overhaul

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  • Reply 41 of 122
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,358member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bzuniga View Post


    Haven't we seen this confluence of events before? Anticipated June release for new phone hardware + new phone software, plus an anticipated August debut for a major OS release (e.g.-Leopard) resulted in Leopard being delayed until October.



    It would seem to me that the anticipated new iPhone hardware (iPhone 3,1) + a major iPhone OS revamp (iPhone OS 3.0) could mean a repeat of the Mac OS delay that hit Leopard. There are only so many people working at Apple. And don't kid yourself, these are all MAJOR refreshes of hardware and software.



    If Apple sits on the new UI theme, this would likely only exacerbate the problem.



    I would love to see all 3 of these drop within two months of each other, although my pocket book won't; but I just don't see this happening. I wouldn't be surprised to see Snow Leopard slip back a couple of months. Sorry about throwing cold water on you! My bucket is now empty.



    Welcome to the boards bzuniga



    Yeah I'd say that if they show Snow Leopard in June and then do not deliver until Aug/Sept then I'd consider that being delayed because Jobs' said about a year during WWDC 2008. Though I wouldn't call the delay egregious in any way.



    I think the iPhone SDK 3.0 will certainly get preference and ship in June with new iPhone hardware. Then the team will breakneck to get Snow Leopard to Final Candidate polish and release in 60 days. A tall order indeed.
  • Reply 42 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    About 28% of Mac users are still on PPC machines. They won't agree with you on getting rid of Universal. I don't see it as making that much of a difference to most people, though it might happen.



    You do realize that Snow Leopard is Intel only. This whatever features are or aren't in Snow Leopard will not matter to any PPC owners.
  • Reply 43 of 122
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,358member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post


    The rebuild of Finder in Leopard was a good step forward, but Finder needs some serious love in order to make it as powerful as many of their apps are now. Other than the redesigned window layouts and integration with things like QuickLook, it doesn't seem like any new real functionality has been added to Finder in many many years. There's so much they could do with it.



    What would you like to see in the Finder? I think a lot of people want more flexibility but often it's hard to find a consensus as to what features people want/need.
  • Reply 44 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Just the opposite... they're pulling developers from the iPhone team to work on SNL



    The developers are going to work on Saturday Night Live?



    I'm sure they couldn't do worse than the current writers.
  • Reply 45 of 122
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat View Post


    You are just too logical!



    Should we believe that the rumor mills are making stuff up?



    I also agree that the 10.6 GUI is final and they are working on bugs under the hood.



    Making up what? It's still March. Even if it's delivered in June some time, that's still 2.5 months away, at least.



    They could show it in late April, and still give enough heads up.



    The final builds don't start moving up in speed until the last month.
  • Reply 46 of 122
    ulfoafulfoaf Posts: 175member
    Those colors look awfully familiar .... does it remind anyone of the default Solaris, maybe? Can't say I am particularly fond of them .... I like the present ones better.
  • Reply 47 of 122
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,358member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat View Post


    You do realize that Snow Leopard is Intel only. This whatever features are or aren't in Snow Leopard will not matter to any PPC owners.



    Apple hasn't made the definitive statement regarding PPC support so I guess anything goes here. Though I doubt we see PPC support and I do not recommend we see PPC support.



    Breaking with legacy is difficult but I want a lean n mean OS that is optimized for the dominant hardware ISA and that's x86.



    I like knowing that if an app in Snow Leopard only it's going to be strictly optimized for Intel based Macs.
  • Reply 48 of 122
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I keep reading, in articles and posts, that Apple isn't going to introduce new features with 10.6.



    This isn't true. Nowhere did Apple say this. They did say that they would be concentrating on rewriting the OS, and adding features under the hood, many of which we now know about.



    But there are features we, as consumers, will see as well. There are features that we've already seen hints of in Leopard that developers only are working with. This includes the many times over the years discussion of resolution independence. That's a possibility.



    I also can't believe
    that Apple would wait until the last minute on showing to developers a wholly new GUI. They will have to see this enough in advance. They may have to rework their own interfaces as a result.



    I'm sure we will see features, some major. How many is another question.



    I can. We did it at NeXT. When all of your application space can leverage the changes via InterfaceBuilder it's not that difficult to "flick the switch", so to speak.
  • Reply 49 of 122
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat View Post


    You do realize that Snow Leopard is Intel only. This whatever features are or aren't in Snow Leopard will not matter to any PPC owners.



    This is what we generally hear.



    But your response isn't to what I actually said in response to Georgetang.



    He wants to see them dropping Universal support. I said that 28% of Mac users who are still using PPC's aren't too happy about that prospect.



    I also said that to most people, getting rid of Universal support won't matter much (because of file sizes, which is what he was commenting upon).



    The fact that PPC people won't get ANY of these features, many of which can work just fine on PPC machines, if Apple wanted to bother, is something that will tick them off.



    There's nothing wrong in any of that.
  • Reply 50 of 122
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    I can. We did it at NeXT. When all of your application space can leverage the changes via InterfaceBuilder it's not that difficult to "flick the switch", so to speak.



    I'm not arguing that there aren't "automatic" processes going on. I'm saying that interfaces designed for, say, black type on a white, or light grey background, don't always work well the other way around.



    I did publishing work when I had my company, and we were always reworking things around, depending on what was wanted.



    Dark backgrounds often require different typefaces. It also usually required a bolder typeface. That's just one element.



    Will XCode change everything around so that it meets the developers standards? Moving from color to greyshades also requires the reworking of graphic elements. Will XCode do this as well? There are a bunch of niggling little things that would have to be redone if Apple goes to this new "color" palette.



    What about rez independence? Will it take care of all that as well? Developers won't have to design new icons, graphics, and images?



    One of the reasons we were given as to why we weren't given rez independence in 10.5, even though it is there for developers, was because they would have to redo their GUI's. You're saying this is wrong?
  • Reply 51 of 122
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I keep reading, in articles and posts, that Apple isn't going to introduce new features with 10.6.



    This isn't true. Nowhere did Apple say this.



    They need a starting point so they can bitch about it costing $129 even though they will probably pirate a copy anyway.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    First, major developers get it. Then, later, others will too.



    By the time they do, it doesn't matter if it gets released. If fact, all of us here want to see it as soon as possible. Neither MS or any other OS developer can us it in the two months or so before it come out, so it won't matter.



    I think this will get delayed until late summer, and we get our first official look at the UI at the WWDC. That will give developers some time to make some changes. Of course, I expect to see leaks of the interface before it's officially released.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    The Apple developer community is not what it used to be. There are hundreds of useless slackers that are a part of the developer program only so they can search through the code and violate their NDAs trying to be the first to release pics to Gizmodo or some other similar low-brow site.



    I am one of those useless slackers you speak of but I don't post any screenshots and never talk about features that have not been announced.
  • Reply 52 of 122
    chromoschromos Posts: 191member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by adisor19 View Post


    I haven't seen ANY trace of change in all of the SL builds that have come out so i'm not holding my breath. This would be a MAJOR feature indeed if Apple decides to pull a rabbit out of the had with 10.6



    Has anyone out there noticed any improvement/code changes in regards to RI ?



    Adi



    Safari 4's form widgets display resolution independence, when utilizing the Zoom functionality... that's a baby step.
  • Reply 53 of 122
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    They need a starting point so they can bitch about it costing $129 even though they will probably pirate a copy anyway.



    Heh! Possible.



    Quote:

    I think this will get delayed until late summer, and we get our first official look at the UI at the WWDC. That will give developers some time to make some changes. Of course, I expect to see leaks of the interface before it's officially released.



    It could get delayed. With all the talk about it being released in March, or by some even nuttier people, last January, I would hope it won't be. Right now, I'm assuming it's going to be about on time. I would consider it to be on time if it came in by the end of July.



    Nevertheless, I think that Apple will show the rest of the features about two months before release, or at least, a month before.
  • Reply 54 of 122
    johnnykrzjohnnykrz Posts: 152member
    I just want to know if anyone with a developer release is noticing wicked fast speed increases (especially on last year's Mac Pro). Anyone?
  • Reply 55 of 122
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by johnmcboston View Post


    August: Snow Leopard and quad core imacs? I'd be happy :-)



    Apple should have delivered at least one Quad core iMac during the last rev. This would have giving the people in the know something to buy as simply knowing about Snow Leopard is enough to want a Quad core machine. The otherthing of course is a low cost Quad platform for developers.



    The current lack of a Quad core iMac is one of Apples bigger bone headed moves. They atleast needed one machine during the last rev.



    As to SL I do expect some use interface changes but don't see it as a big deal. I'm expecting that those major under the hood changes will benefit us owners of older intel hardware. At the very least they better fix WiFI on my MBP from early 2008. Apples inability to establish a reliable WiFi connection with these machines on many networks ought to be a major embarrassment. It is the one low level problem that I see them having to fix.



    Don't get me wrong the other improvements that should come with SL are highly desired too. Especially GPU processing / acceleration. This should be better than a machine upgrade for me. I'm not one to believe SL will work miricals as I think some do, but it ought to really enhance a MBP of this age. Maybe I should say it better as I'm going to be a bit ticked off if Apple doesn't agressively implement the new software features on relatively new hardware.



    Oh I think SL will ship at WWDC and each of us will patiently wait for 10.6,1 to come out to stabilize the platform.







    Dave
  • Reply 56 of 122
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    I can. We did it at NeXT. When all of your application space can leverage the changes via InterfaceBuilder it's not that difficult to "flick the switch", so to speak.



    It will be interesting to see where this new interface leaves Adobe. The Creative Suite UI may look even more out of place on a Mac than ever before. In the meantime, all the newer, leaner creative apps (Pixelmator, Lineform, Freeway, iStudio etc.) will look right at home in Snow Leopard.



    If Apple gave Core Image the ability to do CMYK in Snow Leopard, Adobe would be in serious trouble on the Mac.
  • Reply 57 of 122
    crees!crees! Posts: 501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    About 28% of Mac users are still on PPC machines. They won't agree with you on getting rid of Universal. I don't see it as making that much of a difference to most people, though it might happen.



    +1 for the PPC column.
  • Reply 58 of 122
    eldernormeldernorm Posts: 232member
    I say we start the betting now. I bet 50 quat-lews that Microsoft has an announcement (any announcement and usually a vaporware one at that) the same day as an Apple announcement.



    Done just to try and steal Apple thunder. :-) ??



    50 quat-lews, Anyone? Anyone? Beulewer, Beulewer?



    Just a thought.

    en
  • Reply 59 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chromos View Post


    Safari 4's form widgets display resolution independence, when utilizing the Zoom functionality... that's a baby step.



    Making sure that all the elements of a document scale up and down uniformly together is a commendable effort. But that doesn't mesh with my understanding of the original intent behind resolution independence.



    It was more to do with being able to define the size and proportions of user interface elements in terms of absolute physical dimensions (eg. inches), and having those elements appear to be the same size on every monitor, no matter how dense or coarse that monitor's DPI (resolution) happens to be.



    On the other hand, widgets that scale properly as documents zoom in and out may very well use many of the same technologies under the hood as my understanding of resolution independence.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by georgetang


    well, I just want they improve the software and get rid of Universal support...



    I've notice that Safari takes too much memory and crash pretty often...



    With Snow Leopard, the OS and software foot print would reduce a lot, same with memory allocation, which I hope it'll improve performance and stability....



    I don't know for sure, but does OS X actually allocate RAM for the whole application image when you're running a universal app? Doesn't it only load the portion of the application image that belongs to the architecture which is actually running?



    As well, I think the Universal Binary system is also the mechanism by which Apple distributes both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of an application in the same package.
  • Reply 60 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post


    Making sure that all the elements of a document scale up and down uniformly together is a commendable effort. But that doesn't mesh with my understanding of the original intent behind resolution independence.



    It was more to do with being able to define the size and proportions of user interface elements in terms of absolute physical dimensions (eg. inches), and having those user interfaces appear to be the same size on every monitor, no matter how dense or coarse that monitor's DPI (resolution) happens to be.



    On the other hand, widgets that scale properly as documents zoom in and out may very well use many of the same technologies under the hood as my understanding of resolution independence.



    Your understanding of Resolution Independence is EXACTLY what it is supposed to be in its true meaning. Having 2 monitors with various pixel sizes and resolutions look the same to the user is what RI will bring to the table once Apple gets it out the door.



    I do have a feeling that this will only happen with 10.7 as i haven't seen any progress being done on any of the 10.6 builds. Worse yet, this may be even further delayed as i really don't see it how they could make Carbon apps resolution independent without some major problems. If Apple dumps Carbon in 10.7 or 10.8, then chances are we will then see RI released. All this is IMO of course.



    Adi
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