When looking at the evolution of graphical user interfaces in the past ten years or so, you see an increase in 3-dimensionality. This was mainly accomplished by adding and refining shadows to/of "objects" like windows and icons. With Aqua and the Brushed Metal look we have entered a new area which I suggest to call the age of materialization.
Quarz enables designers of GUI's to simulate glass and metal (Aqua looks more like glass than water to me). I think this will go further and we will soon see other materials like wood, stone or even fur (Jaguar). But it has to be made very sleek and minimalistic in order to be as nonintrusive as possible. That's the way things will shape in the next few years, I guess.
From just what I've read here it's very clear to me that different people have very different tastes when it comes to what they want from their interface. I still find just white or grey so bland it's difficult to look at. Boring.
Some of you want less color and more " serious ". Lol!
However your ideas should be just important to Apple as the people who like a colorful interface. This is why Apple should support themes. Are you listening Apple? One of the things that sold me on the old Copland OS was the ability to change the appearance and not just be stuck with someone elses idea of what's good and proper.
I thought I'd add I have some desktop pictures that clash and look awful with the Aqua interface. One more reason. Apple are you listening to your customers? White doesn't go with everything.
[quote]They had larger widgets in the early developer previews, but they shrank them for a couple of reasons. One is that the general public outcry was that they took up too much space and look too cartoonish. Developers pointed out that the generally larger widgets (though obviously not the title bar ones) would wreak havoc on ported Carbon apps' since it forced new layouts on their existing dialogs and such. Apple shrank them by the time the public beta rolled out. The rollovers should work like the Dock's rollover effect. In the Dock, as soon as a name appears and as long as it is up, you can click the icon no matter if you're slightly off the icon. The title bar widgets should follow that pattern. I've always thought that the symbols should be static and the colors should be the rollover effect -- one at a time so you will be less likely to confuse which one you're clicking.
What percent gray are the stripes now? 85% white? If so, I could see them going up to 93% white. <hr></blockquote>
Good post. I agree with you on the stripes, they need to be downplayed. OSX looks messsy! Gah! At least in Jag the damn menu font isn't so fuzzy you can't read it.
Yes, window widgets should ALWAYS have the symbol, and display color when moused over. Brilliant! Windows users would be at home with the symbols (they look ugly but it's a compromise that is worth it.) And color (flashing red) grabs your attention more than a little X which you CAN'T SEE ANYWAY because the cursor is ALREADY OVER the widget! Damnit Aqua has loooong way to go. That pic without stripes look so much better. I was so happy when I saw that. I am getting that theme I think!
I don't understand why the pinstripes exist. OS X definitely looks stuck in '99 with the gaudy iMacs of that year. OS X doesn't look like ANY of the current hardware (although as someone pointed out, without the pinstripes it sort of looks like an iBook.)
<strong>I like the cheerful appearance of Aqua in any case. I hope whatever they do, they don't go back to all that gray (or beige).</strong><hr></blockquote>
I like Aqua too. For the most part. It's a relief from the Windows-ish gray of Platinum.
And yeah, the pinstripes' opacity could certainly be a hair less. I've always prefered simpler, flat buttons, but the gelcaps are bearable. Something about the smaller UI elements (for palettes and panels and toolbars) can still look a bit clumsy. You can see Adobe and Macromedia struggling with them in their apps. Not sure what the solution is, but it could use more polish.
A glossy white Snow theme would be nice, as well. Whether it's from Apple, or... someone else.
I do have to disagree about the window widgets. The first beta of RealPlayer, RealOne, hacked the widgets for their custom interface so that a mouseover would reveal each button, instead of all three together. I was interested in this at first, but soon grew to loathe it. What it does is create a great deal more rollover activity, and "flippiness" (for lack of a better word), much like the supremely annoying button rollovers that Microsoft uses everywhere in their UI. It's annoying. If you can find a version of RealOne b1, I suggest checking it out. (The final version of RealOne works like the rest of OS X.)
Apple's way seems odd at first, but it's really much more subtle. I have to give credit where credit's due.
As for color only when rolling over... though I don't mind the gumdrops, and actually like a dash of color in the menu bar, I could see a case being made for that. It would make a interesting alternative theme.
I thought that Apple would eventually move to themes when they settled the rest of the UI a bit. I have no problem with themes so long as they don't change layouts too much or alter any features or important behavior. I think though, as Quick mentioned, Apple is probably not interested in general theming for the UI but rather interested in creating material/functional themes like the metal nibs.
<strong>I thought that Apple would eventually move to themes when they settled the rest of the UI a bit. I have no problem with themes so long as they don't change layouts too much or alter any features or important behavior. I think though, as Quick mentioned, Apple is probably not interested in general theming for the UI but rather interested in creating material/functional themes like the metal nibs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's true. I was half tongue-in-cheek suggesting a glossy "Snow" theme, or a theme with slightly alternate widgets -- all that would come from the DIY theming crowd, and not from Apple.
Whoever has final say for Aqua -- be it Jobs, or the head of UI team, whoever that is (does anyone know? - they sure keep those names hidden away), is not eager for themes on OS X... at least not as user-controlled eye candy.
The use of the textured window to create a distinctive look and feel associated with the company's central philosophy/marketing push (currently, The Digital Hub) is... curious. It's doesn't seem too harmful, and does work well for the more contained, one-window applications. But it's hard to see it continuing in that direction. Apple can't introduce a new theme every few years as they shift strategies... or can they?
I thnk if they get the nibs in place, and their apps consistently using them, they could change their appearance by the season. I think that kind of under-the-hood consistency is a Good Thing(tm) in principle. One of the big internal selling points of Mac OS X's architecture is that it will allow much faster application of ideas and technology. They could potentially change appearances like they changed the iMac colors a few years ago, like fashion, and any apps that use the standard implementations will follow suit automatically.
I suppose it does seem a little contradictory that computers and technology changes so rapidly but people assume they have to have a "timeless" appearance, or neutral at least. The appearance could change as quickly as the hardware and software underneath. So long as they are consistent with the behavior of the UI, it might not be that bad, though I imagine it to be a slippery slope. They would have to be careful to do it in good taste.
But anyway, I don't think they're going down that road either. I expect some major changes in the appearance of Aqua in a few years, but not a flavor-of-the-week approach.
Really!? If that's the case, then what does the "Acceleration" section under the "Motion" tab of the "Mouse Properties" control panel do in Windows anyway?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Makes the cursor use a higher pixel movement on screen to actual mouse movement ratio. For example, move the mouse one inch at any speed, cursor moves 150 pixels. Move the mouse two inches at any speed, cursor moves 300 pixels. Et cetera. Rather than say, 100 pixels and 200 pixels.
<strong>I thnk if they get the nibs in place, and their apps consistently using them, they could change their appearance by the season. I think that kind of under-the-hood consistency is a Good Thing(tm) in principle. One of the big internal selling points of Mac OS X's architecture is that it will allow much faster application of ideas and technology. They could potentially change appearances like they changed the iMac colors a few years ago, like fashion, and any apps that use the standard implementations will follow suit automatically.</strong><hr></blockquote>
(chuckle) I can see the catwalk at the fashion show as we speak.... floating windows, with skinny little panels by their side, marching up and down, dressed up in the latest season's sporty UI.
[quote]<strong>
But anyway, I don't think they're going down that road either. I expect some major changes in the appearance of Aqua in a few years, but not a flavor-of-the-week approach.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I imagine you're right. Consistency over time (even if measured by a handful of years) is important as well as consistency in use and function.
What changes to Aqua do you foresee? I spot some trends in their latest applications that I could see being implemented into 10.3 or 10.4, but beyond that I have no idea.
<strong>Anybody know if there will be a Quartz Extreme 2?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I doubt they'll version it. QE will get better, and not long from now (meaning in two years or so) all of Quartz should be hardware accelerated. The coming graphics chipsets are that powerful.
[quote]<strong>Where is all the 10.3 inside information and speculation?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple seems to have kept a tight lid on their OS sofar, so unless one of the rumors sites scores in a big way we won't here much about 10.3 until it hits ADC.
I haven't looked hard, but I haven't seen much. It's kind of eerie.
I've been using AlumiteX[A] for so long that I'm totally oblivious to what you're all talking about... "What colours? Which Candy-buttons? Protruding pinstripes? Where? "
It's the best and sleekest and most neutral theme IMO. Very Platinum-like in that regard, but still very classy.
Comments
Quarz enables designers of GUI's to simulate glass and metal (Aqua looks more like glass than water to me). I think this will go further and we will soon see other materials like wood, stone or even fur (Jaguar). But it has to be made very sleek and minimalistic in order to be as nonintrusive as possible. That's the way things will shape in the next few years, I guess.
Some of you want less color and more " serious ". Lol!
However your ideas should be just important to Apple as the people who like a colorful interface. This is why Apple should support themes. Are you listening Apple? One of the things that sold me on the old Copland OS was the ability to change the appearance and not just be stuck with someone elses idea of what's good and proper.
I thought I'd add I have some desktop pictures that clash and look awful with the Aqua interface. One more reason. Apple are you listening to your customers? White doesn't go with everything.
[ 12-05-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
What percent gray are the stripes now? 85% white? If so, I could see them going up to 93% white. <hr></blockquote>
Good post. I agree with you on the stripes, they need to be downplayed. OSX looks messsy! Gah! At least in Jag the damn menu font isn't so fuzzy you can't read it.
Yes, window widgets should ALWAYS have the symbol, and display color when moused over. Brilliant! Windows users would be at home with the symbols (they look ugly but it's a compromise that is worth it.) And color (flashing red) grabs your attention more than a little X which you CAN'T SEE ANYWAY because the cursor is ALREADY OVER the widget! Damnit Aqua has loooong way to go. That pic without stripes look so much better. I was so happy when I saw that.
I don't understand why the pinstripes exist. OS X definitely looks stuck in '99 with the gaudy iMacs of that year. OS X doesn't look like ANY of the current hardware (although as someone pointed out, without the pinstripes it sort of looks like an iBook.)
<strong>I like the cheerful appearance of Aqua in any case. I hope whatever they do, they don't go back to all that gray (or beige).</strong><hr></blockquote>
I like Aqua too. For the most part. It's a relief from the Windows-ish gray of Platinum.
And yeah, the pinstripes' opacity could certainly be a hair less. I've always prefered simpler, flat buttons, but the gelcaps are bearable. Something about the smaller UI elements (for palettes and panels and toolbars) can still look a bit clumsy. You can see Adobe and Macromedia struggling with them in their apps. Not sure what the solution is, but it could use more polish.
A glossy white Snow theme would be nice, as well. Whether it's from Apple, or... someone else.
I do have to disagree about the window widgets. The first beta of RealPlayer, RealOne, hacked the widgets for their custom interface so that a mouseover would reveal each button, instead of all three together. I was interested in this at first, but soon grew to loathe it. What it does is create a great deal more rollover activity, and "flippiness" (for lack of a better word), much like the supremely annoying button rollovers that Microsoft uses everywhere in their UI. It's annoying. If you can find a version of RealOne b1, I suggest checking it out. (The final version of RealOne works like the rest of OS X.)
Apple's way seems odd at first, but it's really much more subtle. I have to give credit where credit's due.
As for color only when rolling over... though I don't mind the gumdrops, and actually like a dash of color in the menu bar, I could see a case being made for that. It would make a interesting alternative theme.
[ 12-05-2002: Message edited by: Hobbes ]</p>
<strong>I thought that Apple would eventually move to themes when they settled the rest of the UI a bit. I have no problem with themes so long as they don't change layouts too much or alter any features or important behavior. I think though, as Quick mentioned, Apple is probably not interested in general theming for the UI but rather interested in creating material/functional themes like the metal nibs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's true. I was half tongue-in-cheek suggesting a glossy "Snow" theme, or a theme with slightly alternate widgets -- all that would come from the DIY theming crowd, and not from Apple.
Whoever has final say for Aqua -- be it Jobs, or the head of UI team, whoever that is (does anyone know? - they sure keep those names hidden away), is not eager for themes on OS X... at least not as user-controlled eye candy.
The use of the textured window to create a distinctive look and feel associated with the company's central philosophy/marketing push (currently, The Digital Hub) is... curious. It's doesn't seem too harmful, and does work well for the more contained, one-window applications. But it's hard to see it continuing in that direction. Apple can't introduce a new theme every few years as they shift strategies... or can they?
I suppose it does seem a little contradictory that computers and technology changes so rapidly but people assume they have to have a "timeless" appearance, or neutral at least. The appearance could change as quickly as the hardware and software underneath. So long as they are consistent with the behavior of the UI, it might not be that bad, though I imagine it to be a slippery slope. They would have to be careful to do it in good taste.
But anyway, I don't think they're going down that road either. I expect some major changes in the appearance of Aqua in a few years, but not a flavor-of-the-week approach.
<strong>
Really!? If that's the case, then what does the "Acceleration" section under the "Motion" tab of the "Mouse Properties" control panel do in Windows anyway?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Makes the cursor use a higher pixel movement on screen to actual mouse movement ratio. For example, move the mouse one inch at any speed, cursor moves 150 pixels. Move the mouse two inches at any speed, cursor moves 300 pixels. Et cetera. Rather than say, 100 pixels and 200 pixels.
Where is all the 10.3 inside information and speculation?
<strong>I thnk if they get the nibs in place, and their apps consistently using them, they could change their appearance by the season. I think that kind of under-the-hood consistency is a Good Thing(tm) in principle. One of the big internal selling points of Mac OS X's architecture is that it will allow much faster application of ideas and technology. They could potentially change appearances like they changed the iMac colors a few years ago, like fashion, and any apps that use the standard implementations will follow suit automatically.</strong><hr></blockquote>
(chuckle) I can see the catwalk at the fashion show as we speak.... floating windows, with skinny little panels by their side, marching up and down, dressed up in the latest season's sporty UI.
[quote]<strong>
But anyway, I don't think they're going down that road either. I expect some major changes in the appearance of Aqua in a few years, but not a flavor-of-the-week approach.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I imagine you're right. Consistency over time (even if measured by a handful of years) is important as well as consistency in use and function.
What changes to Aqua do you foresee? I spot some trends in their latest applications that I could see being implemented into 10.3 or 10.4, but beyond that I have no idea.
[ 12-05-2002: Message edited by: Hobbes ]</p>
<strong>Anybody know if there will be a Quartz Extreme 2?
Where is all the 10.3 inside information and speculation?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's very quiet... almost too quiet...
<strong>Anybody know if there will be a Quartz Extreme 2?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I doubt they'll version it. QE will get better, and not long from now (meaning in two years or so) all of Quartz should be hardware accelerated. The coming graphics chipsets are that powerful.
[quote]<strong>Where is all the 10.3 inside information and speculation?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple seems to have kept a tight lid on their OS sofar, so unless one of the rumors sites scores in a big way we won't here much about 10.3 until it hits ADC.
I haven't looked hard, but I haven't seen much. It's kind of eerie.
It's the best and sleekest and most neutral theme IMO. Very Platinum-like in that regard, but still very classy.
Also all progress animations are tres cool.
<a href="http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/"; target="_blank">http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/</a>; (at the very bottom)
Is this an updated Brushed Metal appearance of OS X made by Apple or just a third-party custom theme?
I like the style of the buttons which look much more integrated with the metal theme. Mixing Aqua and Brushed Metal never made sense to me.
[ 01-13-2003: Message edited by: Quick ]</p>
<strong>Is this an updated Brushed Metal appearance of OS X made by Apple or just a third-party custom theme?</strong><hr></blockquote>UGH.
That is the ever-so-hideous "Alumite" theme. Yuck. Deftnitely not Apple's style.
<strong>... Yuck. Definitely not Apple's style.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I argee, as a whole it's ugly. But the buttons are nice IMHO.
<strong>UGH.
That is the ever-so-hideous "Alumite" theme. Yuck. Deftnitely not Apple's style.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are you crazy? That's the best-looking and least obtrusive theme out there. I'm starting to seriously doubt your tastes, Brad...
Just look at <a href="http://jan.tokyo.se/temp/alumite_safari.jpg"; target="_blank">Safari</a> under alumite....
[ 01-13-2003: Message edited by: Whyatt Thrash ]</p>