I'm sure there are issues, but I've been pretty lucky with my purchases. I do think that Motorola and other handheld POS manufacturers are probably none to happy about Apple opening up the 30-pin connector. I bet that many of these companies didn't even realize that their business model would be in trouble until it was spelled out what Apple's device will be able to do. Maybe some still have no clue until they get a look at this article or others showing what will be occurring.
I hope that at least a couple of these companies will be the ones making the the attachments, but this looks like a prime time for a small upstart to make some serious coin. In other words, these Motorola Symbol POS handhelds look to cost around $2000 retail, while an iPod Touch costs only $229 + the cost of the attachment, the software, and maybe a docking station. I think that with Apple's SDk that $500-$1000 for the whole POS part would be still be very profitable and still be much less than the ones I'm seeing on Google Shopping. Though honestly, I can see it had for considerably less than the numbers I state.
Did you try to but an iPhone with it, and get the account set-up? That's where the problems are. As I said, for "normal" purchases, I've not had problems.
It seems as though these complex transactions are beyond what they were designed for. It couldn't link the serial number to the phones several times.
Btw, if interested in further analysis on the third party accessories play in iPhone 3.0, here is a post I wrote that looks at some market segments and use case examples.
It also shows how Apple's hardware differentiation dates back to the days of Apple (special hats off to the Woz, Apple co-founder, Steve Wozniak):
PC 1.0, iPhone 3.0 and the Woz: Everything Old is New
About the article, for the one weekend a year that I need to charge a credit card while away from a computer, I can just log into Authorize.net directly. It's not as slick, but it can do the job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I think the article clearly shows why it took so long. I wonder how long it will take for the market to be swarmed with new HW add-ons after iPhone oS 3.0 officially hits.
I'd really like to see where it goes.
Quote:
It makes me wonder if the iPod Touch will get a 3.2Mpx camera, which I here is what is needed for a decent barcode scanner.
iPhone isn't in focus close-up, I don't know how more pixels will fix that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux
It appears that the CC number has to be keyed in manually. I hope that a true card swipe device is incorporated, not only to speed things up but also to minimize keystroke error. Some cards have so much distracting artwork on them it's tough to read the numbers on a good day, and let's not discount operator error as well.
That is true, I'd say a "jacket" with a swipe reader and laser scanner will do the job. I think they can be made to look decent given the constraints of the task, it's going to make the device bigger, but there's only so much that can be done about that and still be reliable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh
Slightly OT, but does the camera-in-the-Touch talk make anybody else think they are trying to shift revenue away from the subscription iPhone?
Why would they set out to do that? They probably make a lot more money on iPhones because of the subscription. If they want to have a certain number of features be iPhone-only, then they might add something else to the iPhone while the camera shifts to more devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
AT&T used a PC to drive their displays, at one point, presumably because their stores were already PC centric. The Apple Store never did.
Really, I mean, think about it: why would Apple need a PC to run an animation on an external display?
I suppose it shouldn't matter that much, but it would seem that the setup is so simple that I don't understand why AT&T would need a PC to do the same. It's a self-contained device that only does a single task, a relatively simple one at that, and should be able to do it without any intervention. If you have dopes for techs that can't handle for a simple task of maintaining it and couldn't be bothered to learn how to troubleshoot them from documents, then just ship the mini back for a new one if something doesn't work right anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I'm sure there are issues, but I've been pretty lucky with my purchases. I do think that Motorola and other handheld POS manufacturers are probably none to happy about Apple opening up the 30-pin connector. I bet that many of these companies didn't even realize that their business model would be in trouble until it was spelled out what Apple's device will be able to do. Maybe some still have no clue until they get a look at this article or others showing what will be occurring.
That depends on how much competition there is for the scanner & swiper add-ons.
I am a concierge. I love everything about my job except that POS Easypay POS. It's a continuous source of frustration for everyone. The ipod concierge app is really great. Just shows what can be done. I can't wait for an ipod-pay!
That depends on how much competition there is for the scanner & swiper add-ons.
Depends on how large the market is, and how much this could expand it.
I'm not familiar with it. I see it at Apple, of course. but have not seen it anywhere else, though it must be elsewhere.
If one of the reasons is that the device is too expensive, and another is that it isn't that great, two assumptions I'll make right now, then this could get interesting.
IF, and it's a big if, some company comes along with the better mousetrap using Apple's iPhone/iTouch, then that could change the market.
While this certainly isn't on the same scale of importance, there was no market for billions of copies until Xerox made a market for one.
We could see the use of these things expand significantly if a new product is truly superior.
Did you try to [buy] an iPhone with it, and get the account set-up?
I bought three iPhone 3Gs, at different times and at different locations, at Apple Stores on my already current AT&T account. Now, i did have issues with AT&T with the first iPhone 3G, but I don't think it was anything with the Symbol device. The AT&T rep on duty went to a terminal that didn't fit with Apple's setup and after about 5 minutes I had my iPhone 3G active.
That is true, I'd say a "jacket" with a swipe reader and laser scanner will do the job. I think they can be made to look decent given the constraints of the task, it's going to make the device bigger, but there's only so much that can be done about that and still be reliable.
I hope that manufacturers who make add-on components do the whole 'jacket' styling on the majority of products. In other words, actually have the iphone/ipod slide into the add-on. I've seen a few devices that slot in the bottom but just into the plug and the leverage that it can generate puts a lot of strain on the port. The problem here is that the ipod/iphone aren't all the same size so they have to make multiple models.
I hope that manufacturers who make add-on components do the whole 'jacket' styling on the majority of products. In other words, actually have the iphone/ipod slide into the add-on. I've seen a few devices that slot in the bottom but just into the plug and the leverage that it can generate puts a lot of strain on the port. The problem here is that the ipod/iphone aren't all the same size so they have to make multiple models.
Good point, I think that can be accommodated by different shims or replacement shells.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
While this certainly isn't on the same scale of importance, there was no market for billions of copies until Xerox made a market for one.
We could see the use of these things expand significantly if a new product is truly superior.
I think there is plenty of potential here, I am interested in how this plays out. One thing that can really help is that the Apple touch devices are compact, complete, self-contained computers that are already built. You have the input, display, data links, a good OS, good dev environment, good data links, plenty enough compute power, and so on. I think it's quite possible that niche device makers can make a better profit, and still cheaper devices than they have before, even when factoring in the cost of the i-device. They don't have to reinvent the wheel, they just concentrate on the one bit of functionality that they specialize in. It would probably be more reliable than anything the niche company could make on their own.
It appears that the CC number has to be keyed in manually. I hope that a true card swipe device is incorporated, not only to speed things up but also to minimize keystroke error. Some cards have so much distracting artwork on them it's tough to read the numbers on a good day, and let's not discount operator error as well.
But now that this is getting tested by Apple itself it's a safe bet that the entire package will find takers at other stores as well. Perhaps the tide will turn and the next Microsoft ad will find their precious $400 laptop getting rung up on an iPod Touch...
I think you're referring to the embedded video in the story. That commercial shows off existing apps for the 3G. They were demonstrating an order lookup via manually keying in a credit card. They wouldn't use manual keying of credit cards for purchases. Apple stores will be using swipers via USB interface and probably some kind of "dock" or harness.
...the images shown are from a recent iPhone ad. It's intended for small business owners. It's NOT intended for Apple Stores. Expect Apple Stores to have a card swipe station that interacts with the iPod touches, wirelessly. And there's no need for a 3.2MP camera to take images of UPCs. It's the inability to focus at short distances that is the problem. Belkin made a case with a lens that slides over the iPhone's camera to help it focus at macro distances.
...the images shown are from a recent iPhone ad. It's intended for small business owners. It's NOT intended for Apple Stores. Expect Apple Stores to have a card swipe station that interacts with the iPod touches, wirelessly. And there's no need for a 3.2MP camera to take images of UPCs. It's the inability to focus at short distances that is the problem. Belkin made a case with a lens that slides over the iPhone's camera to help it focus at macro distances.
Agree, apple will most likely have their own app strictly for this.
Really? I'm pretty sure it's a MBP that is locked in a box on the floor.
The iPhone displays that were crashing were running windows. If it didn't crash there's no way to tell if the MBP was running windows... The display at the Lancaster store has a MacMini in the back/bottom of it, didn't know any were tied to a laptop. It's a thicker one than the ATT stores had but was somewhat interactive. I actually though "Wow, they made a big azz iPhone for a display!" because kids were touching the screen and it was responding, at least it looked like it was. Back of it showed the White square top of a mini (apple logo right side up).
I don't get too excited about stuff like that... More interested in the computers than the devices and when I goto a store it's not for the fun of dealing with all the kids (I AM GETTING OLD!).
I'm thinking of a car with nothing in the centre console except an iPhone dock, everything from climate control, engine management, music, GPS and phone functions all controlled by the iPhone OS interface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Several other posters in various other threads have made this point, but it's really starting to look like the really big news in the iPhone 3.0 OS isn't cut and paste or search or MMS, it's access to the dock connector.
An explosion of devices that use the iPhone/Touch as web-enabled intelligent controllers with a sophisticated touch UI and a well established SDK could drive a huge increase in sales and redefine the whole idea of an "ecosystem."
Imagine surround sound receivers with a dock connector that allows for, not just piping music through your system, but a much better programming/set-up UI than the typical few lines of cryptic LCD and a sea of tiny buttons. Leave volume control, station preset and input switching on the front panel for day to day use, put all the level setup, input assignment, surround mode, et al on the touch interface.
After all, lots of hard to figure out buttons and inflexible UIs with small displays was the problem the iPhone was designed to address, and it's a problem that remains endemic in the CE industry. I could see all kinds of devices with just a few large, basic controls built in, the rest "outsourced" to the iPhone/Touch platform.
Sure, it means an additional expense to get the functionality, but you can also deduct the price of UI/control hardware and software/WiFi/Bluetooth from the cost of the device. Plus, with a 30 million and growing installed user base, such devices could be marketed to people who already have an iPhone/Touch.
It's got a Mac Mini and runs OSX, we had to buy a plug adapter as it's got a US power plug.
We've got one in our store, every night we turn it off by pulling the power plug (It's too much hassle to undo the screws and shut it down) and every morning we turn it on and start the Quicktime movie that loops all day, it's been doing that seven days a week (apart from Christmas day, Good Friday and Today) since 11 July without missing a beat.
The quicktime movie is the UK version (I'm in Australia I guess one of you ignorant Americans thought Australia was close enough at least it's not an Austrian version) and still shows the old firmware (3G icon etc).
It's really annoying putting the mouse away as the slightest bump often pauses quicktime and everything is sideways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva
The GIANT Iphone display is actually running Windows.
Comments
An iPhone isn't a POS!!!
"improve reliability"
EasyPay has reliability problems? Do you have a source for that?
Or did you just make it up?
The software was certainly funky.
I'm sure there are issues, but I've been pretty lucky with my purchases. I do think that Motorola and other handheld POS manufacturers are probably none to happy about Apple opening up the 30-pin connector. I bet that many of these companies didn't even realize that their business model would be in trouble until it was spelled out what Apple's device will be able to do. Maybe some still have no clue until they get a look at this article or others showing what will be occurring.
I hope that at least a couple of these companies will be the ones making the the attachments, but this looks like a prime time for a small upstart to make some serious coin. In other words, these Motorola Symbol POS handhelds look to cost around $2000 retail, while an iPod Touch costs only $229 + the cost of the attachment, the software, and maybe a docking station. I think that with Apple's SDk that $500-$1000 for the whole POS part would be still be very profitable and still be much less than the ones I'm seeing on Google Shopping. Though honestly, I can see it had for considerably less than the numbers I state.
Did you try to but an iPhone with it, and get the account set-up? That's where the problems are. As I said, for "normal" purchases, I've not had problems.
It seems as though these complex transactions are beyond what they were designed for. It couldn't link the serial number to the phones several times.
It also shows how Apple's hardware differentiation dates back to the days of Apple (special hats off to the Woz, Apple co-founder, Steve Wozniak):
PC 1.0, iPhone 3.0 and the Woz: Everything Old is New
http://bit.ly/7hLJY
Check it out if interested.
Mark
I think the article clearly shows why it took so long. I wonder how long it will take for the market to be swarmed with new HW add-ons after iPhone oS 3.0 officially hits.
I'd really like to see where it goes.
It makes me wonder if the iPod Touch will get a 3.2Mpx camera, which I here is what is needed for a decent barcode scanner.
iPhone isn't in focus close-up, I don't know how more pixels will fix that.
It appears that the CC number has to be keyed in manually. I hope that a true card swipe device is incorporated, not only to speed things up but also to minimize keystroke error. Some cards have so much distracting artwork on them it's tough to read the numbers on a good day, and let's not discount operator error as well.
That is true, I'd say a "jacket" with a swipe reader and laser scanner will do the job. I think they can be made to look decent given the constraints of the task, it's going to make the device bigger, but there's only so much that can be done about that and still be reliable.
Slightly OT, but does the camera-in-the-Touch talk make anybody else think they are trying to shift revenue away from the subscription iPhone?
Why would they set out to do that? They probably make a lot more money on iPhones because of the subscription. If they want to have a certain number of features be iPhone-only, then they might add something else to the iPhone while the camera shifts to more devices.
AT&T used a PC to drive their displays, at one point, presumably because their stores were already PC centric. The Apple Store never did.
Really, I mean, think about it: why would Apple need a PC to run an animation on an external display?
I suppose it shouldn't matter that much, but it would seem that the setup is so simple that I don't understand why AT&T would need a PC to do the same. It's a self-contained device that only does a single task, a relatively simple one at that, and should be able to do it without any intervention. If you have dopes for techs that can't handle for a simple task of maintaining it and couldn't be bothered to learn how to troubleshoot them from documents, then just ship the mini back for a new one if something doesn't work right anymore.
I'm sure there are issues, but I've been pretty lucky with my purchases. I do think that Motorola and other handheld POS manufacturers are probably none to happy about Apple opening up the 30-pin connector. I bet that many of these companies didn't even realize that their business model would be in trouble until it was spelled out what Apple's device will be able to do. Maybe some still have no clue until they get a look at this article or others showing what will be occurring.
That depends on how much competition there is for the scanner & swiper add-ons.
That depends on how much competition there is for the scanner & swiper add-ons.
Depends on how large the market is, and how much this could expand it.
I'm not familiar with it. I see it at Apple, of course. but have not seen it anywhere else, though it must be elsewhere.
If one of the reasons is that the device is too expensive, and another is that it isn't that great, two assumptions I'll make right now, then this could get interesting.
IF, and it's a big if, some company comes along with the better mousetrap using Apple's iPhone/iTouch, then that could change the market.
While this certainly isn't on the same scale of importance, there was no market for billions of copies until Xerox made a market for one.
We could see the use of these things expand significantly if a new product is truly superior.
Did you try to [buy] an iPhone with it, and get the account set-up?
I bought three iPhone 3Gs, at different times and at different locations, at Apple Stores on my already current AT&T account. Now, i did have issues with AT&T with the first iPhone 3G, but I don't think it was anything with the Symbol device. The AT&T rep on duty went to a terminal that didn't fit with Apple's setup and after about 5 minutes I had my iPhone 3G active.
That is true, I'd say a "jacket" with a swipe reader and laser scanner will do the job. I think they can be made to look decent given the constraints of the task, it's going to make the device bigger, but there's only so much that can be done about that and still be reliable.
I hope that manufacturers who make add-on components do the whole 'jacket' styling on the majority of products. In other words, actually have the iphone/ipod slide into the add-on. I've seen a few devices that slot in the bottom but just into the plug and the leverage that it can generate puts a lot of strain on the port. The problem here is that the ipod/iphone aren't all the same size so they have to make multiple models.
I hope that manufacturers who make add-on components do the whole 'jacket' styling on the majority of products. In other words, actually have the iphone/ipod slide into the add-on. I've seen a few devices that slot in the bottom but just into the plug and the leverage that it can generate puts a lot of strain on the port. The problem here is that the ipod/iphone aren't all the same size so they have to make multiple models.
Good point, I think that can be accommodated by different shims or replacement shells.
While this certainly isn't on the same scale of importance, there was no market for billions of copies until Xerox made a market for one.
We could see the use of these things expand significantly if a new product is truly superior.
I think there is plenty of potential here, I am interested in how this plays out. One thing that can really help is that the Apple touch devices are compact, complete, self-contained computers that are already built. You have the input, display, data links, a good OS, good dev environment, good data links, plenty enough compute power, and so on. I think it's quite possible that niche device makers can make a better profit, and still cheaper devices than they have before, even when factoring in the cost of the i-device. They don't have to reinvent the wheel, they just concentrate on the one bit of functionality that they specialize in. It would probably be more reliable than anything the niche company could make on their own.
It appears that the CC number has to be keyed in manually. I hope that a true card swipe device is incorporated, not only to speed things up but also to minimize keystroke error. Some cards have so much distracting artwork on them it's tough to read the numbers on a good day, and let's not discount operator error as well.
But now that this is getting tested by Apple itself it's a safe bet that the entire package will find takers at other stores as well. Perhaps the tide will turn and the next Microsoft ad will find their precious $400 laptop getting rung up on an iPod Touch...
I think you're referring to the embedded video in the story. That commercial shows off existing apps for the 3G. They were demonstrating an order lookup via manually keying in a credit card. They wouldn't use manual keying of credit cards for purchases. Apple stores will be using swipers via USB interface and probably some kind of "dock" or harness.
Much better, I hate the positively grotesque 'dog food' phrase.
On another note, I hope they think to use robust (industrial-type) iPhone cases for this.
Most other companies make "dog food".
Apple makes a healthy vegan-friendly lunch.
...the images shown are from a recent iPhone ad. It's intended for small business owners. It's NOT intended for Apple Stores. Expect Apple Stores to have a card swipe station that interacts with the iPod touches, wirelessly. And there's no need for a 3.2MP camera to take images of UPCs. It's the inability to focus at short distances that is the problem. Belkin made a case with a lens that slides over the iPhone's camera to help it focus at macro distances.
Agree, apple will most likely have their own app strictly for this.
Really? I'm pretty sure it's a MBP that is locked in a box on the floor.
The iPhone displays that were crashing were running windows. If it didn't crash there's no way to tell if the MBP was running windows... The display at the Lancaster store has a MacMini in the back/bottom of it, didn't know any were tied to a laptop. It's a thicker one than the ATT stores had but was somewhat interactive. I actually though "Wow, they made a big azz iPhone for a display!" because kids were touching the screen and it was responding, at least it looked like it was. Back of it showed the White square top of a mini (apple logo right side up).
I don't get too excited about stuff like that... More interested in the computers than the devices and when I goto a store it's not for the fun of dealing with all the kids (I AM GETTING OLD!).
Several other posters in various other threads have made this point, but it's really starting to look like the really big news in the iPhone 3.0 OS isn't cut and paste or search or MMS, it's access to the dock connector.
An explosion of devices that use the iPhone/Touch as web-enabled intelligent controllers with a sophisticated touch UI and a well established SDK could drive a huge increase in sales and redefine the whole idea of an "ecosystem."
Imagine surround sound receivers with a dock connector that allows for, not just piping music through your system, but a much better programming/set-up UI than the typical few lines of cryptic LCD and a sea of tiny buttons. Leave volume control, station preset and input switching on the front panel for day to day use, put all the level setup, input assignment, surround mode, et al on the touch interface.
After all, lots of hard to figure out buttons and inflexible UIs with small displays was the problem the iPhone was designed to address, and it's a problem that remains endemic in the CE industry. I could see all kinds of devices with just a few large, basic controls built in, the rest "outsourced" to the iPhone/Touch platform.
Sure, it means an additional expense to get the functionality, but you can also deduct the price of UI/control hardware and software/WiFi/Bluetooth from the cost of the device. Plus, with a 30 million and growing installed user base, such devices could be marketed to people who already have an iPhone/Touch.
We've got one in our store, every night we turn it off by pulling the power plug (It's too much hassle to undo the screws and shut it down) and every morning we turn it on and start the Quicktime movie that loops all day, it's been doing that seven days a week (apart from Christmas day, Good Friday and Today) since 11 July without missing a beat.
The quicktime movie is the UK version (I'm in Australia I guess one of you ignorant Americans thought Australia was close enough at least it's not an Austrian version) and still shows the old firmware (3G icon etc).
It's really annoying putting the mouse away as the slightest bump often pauses quicktime and everything is sideways.
The GIANT Iphone display is actually running Windows.